Recruiting

[Brownlax]

Just got off the phone with a college coach - I won't say what school it was. She called one of my players on September 1st and told her she was one of their top recruits and set up a campus visit for her. My kid had a great visit and loved the schools and the players. My player followed up immediately after the visit to thank the coach. Coach replied back asking her if she thought she needed to go on the rest of her visits or did she want to take the next step. We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step. On the next phone call the coach told my player that they were not ready to make the next step right now and that she could be evaluating her over the November tournaments. Just can't believe a coach would string a kid along like this.

I’m confused. It sounds like after the visit, they were asking her if she was ready to commit (take the next step), or did she want to go on other visits. And she replied that she wanted to go on other visits but also wanted to commit? Wasn’t it an either/or? If she told them she wanted to go on her other visits, wasn’t she saying she isn’t ready to commit to them? Or was “next steps” something other than commitment?

If a coach is not going to make an offer - why would you say to a prospective student athlete - "do you need to take your other visits?" I've been doing this for over 20 years and this is just BS to lead a kid along like that.

[Laxfan212]

Just got off the phone with a college coach - I won't say what school it was. She called one of my players on September 1st and told her she was one of their top recruits and set up a campus visit for her. My kid had a great visit and loved the schools and the players. My player followed up immediately after the visit to thank the coach. Coach replied back asking her if she thought she needed to go on the rest of her visits or did she want to take the next step. We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step. On the next phone call the coach told my player that they were not ready to make the next step right now and that she could be evaluating her over the November tournaments. Just can't believe a coach would string a kid along like this.

I’m confused. It sounds like after the visit, they were asking her if she was ready to commit (take the next step), or did she want to go on other visits. And she replied that she wanted to go on other visits but also wanted to commit? Wasn’t it an either/or? If she told them she wanted to go on her other visits, wasn’t she saying she isn’t ready to commit to them? Or was “next steps” something other than commitment?

If a coach is not going to make an offer - why would you say to a prospective student athlete - "do you need to take your other visits?" I've been doing this for over 20 years and this is just BS to lead a kid along like that.

Sorry, I wasn’t challenging you, I just genuinely didn’t understand what happened here (opting both to commit and attend other visits seems contradictory). Maybe in the interim they moved on in their list to kids who had the school as their top choice. Unless they told her “you have an offer and we are holding it open” I’d assume nothing is a sure thing.

[LaxGnome22]

Just got off the phone with a college coach - I won't say what school it was. She called one of my players on September 1st and told her she was one of their top recruits and set up a campus visit for her. My kid had a great visit and loved the schools and the players. My player followed up immediately after the visit to thank the coach. Coach replied back asking her if she thought she needed to go on the rest of her visits or did she want to take the next step. We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step. On the next phone call the coach told my player that they were not ready to make the next step right now and that she could be evaluating her over the November tournaments. Just can't believe a coach would string a kid along like this.

I’m confused. It sounds like after the visit, they were asking her if she was ready to commit (take the next step), or did she want to go on other visits. And she replied that she wanted to go on other visits but also wanted to commit? Wasn’t it an either/or? If she told them she wanted to go on her other visits, wasn’t she saying she isn’t ready to commit to them? Or was “next steps” something other than commitment?

If a coach is not going to make an offer - why would you say to a prospective student athlete - "do you need to take your other visits?" I've been doing this for over 20 years and this is just BS to lead a kid along like that.

After doing this a second time, I realize none of these coaches care about the kids, they only care about their program and I guess that’s fine. The club coaches seem to be in a bad spot as well. The truth is after this year, we stop paying and the club coaches need the relationship with the college coaches more. Therefore when the coaches are outright dirty to the kids, they really don’t stand up to them or call them out for it. I get it, they still need them.

Your scenario is similar to two coaches that contacted my daughter Sept 1. The lies that some of these coaches spewed to my daughter was crazy. In the past they had a list. And they would move down it as kids committed. Now it seems coaches are telling all kids that they want them. Even kids that are third or fourth down the line. Keep them on the hook until they no longer need them. Throw them in a uniform on a visit and then if they get someone else poof, they’re gone.

[Relax77]

Not shocked by that. College coaches are the equivalent to a used car salesman. You just have to hope your daughter/son gets a decent one.

[DMac]

Have to agree with L'212. It sounds as if there was no commitment made by the recruit.
You're one of my top choices but I want to go on other visits.
Wasn't "do you want to take the next step" an offer? I would think you would say yes
at that point and the deal is done.
Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank would say, sometimes when you hesitate on an offer, poof,
it goes away.

[Relax77]

Have to agree with L'212. It sounds as if there was no commitment made by the recruit.
You're one of my top choices but I want to go on other visits.
Wasn't "do you want to take the next step" an offer? I would think you would say yes
at that point and the deal is done.

I see what you are saying but I think these coaches have to stop playing these games. If they want to make an offer, they should’ve offered. Doesn’t matter if they wanted to go on other visits. How should my daughter know she wants to commit to your school if you don’t tell me what the offer is?Would be like buying a car before you hear the price.

[DMac]

Wouldn't that come when she said yes, I'm ready to take the next step?
She doesn't have to take the offer that's presented.

[Relax77]

Wouldn't that come when she said yes, I'm ready to take the next step?
She doesn't have to take the offer that's presented.

I know everyone coach is different. So Who knows. Every offer my daughter go this year came with exactly what the offer was. No one asked her if she was ready to take the next step. They just said here’s the offer. One coach did ask where they were in numbers, my daughter said third and they still offered. But yeah. Like I said. They’re all different so who knows. But if this guy is telling the truth, and of course on an anonymous forum it very well may be the guy is just a dad and lying. But he’s saying he’s a coach for 20 years and never heard of it.

[laxdadpat]

Recruiting is nasty, but you know what happens when assumptions are made.

A few suggestions from someone who has gone through it a few times.

1. Was that visit an official visit? If so, coach usually (not always) makes an offer with a rough time line. The better the player, the more willing the coach will wait. If an offer is not extended, ask where your daughter is on their list at her position. The coach will probably be vague, but it's a good chance to see if your bs meter goes off.

2. Knowing what talent tier your daughter falls into is very important. Hopefully your club has given you realistic expectation. Clubs play both sides of the fence and too often. Recruiting is why we pay for club lacrosse, but the coaches hold the cards after you get past the top 150 recruits.

3. The coaches want to meet on unofficial visits to get a feel for you, but really want to know what other schools you are talking to and visiting. You look a lot better if you have a busy schedule, but really good with other offers.

4. If no offer is made, then you have to keep actively looking for another school. This is where hope means nothing, offers mean everything.

[RollTheCrease]

Have to agree with L'212. It sounds as if there was no commitment made by the recruit.
You're one of my top choices but I want to go on other visits.
Wasn't "do you want to take the next step" an offer? I would think you would say yes
at that point and the deal is done.
Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank would say, sometimes when you hesitate on an offer, poof,
it goes away.

Agree with this post.

“We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step.”

This response would not give me the warm and fuzzies if I were a college coach. I’m sure it was made with the best intentions but it comes across as though your player was not completely sold on the school. Coaches want to here an emphatic yes they are the one.

Without this type of response to the question maybe the coach felt it was best for both sides to take more time to evaluate their options.

[Relax77]

Recruiting is nasty, but you know what happens when assumptions are made.

A few suggestions from someone who has gone through it a few times.

1. Was that visit an official visit? If so, coach usually (not always) makes an offer with a rough time line. The better the player, the more willing the coach will wait. If an offer is not extended, ask where your daughter is on their list at her position. The coach will probably be vague, but it's a good chance to see if your bs meter goes off.

2. Knowing what talent tier your daughter falls into is very important. Hopefully your club has given you realistic expectation. Clubs play both sides of the fence and too often. Recruiting is why we pay for club lacrosse, but the coaches hold the cards after you get past the top 150 recruits.

3. The coaches want to meet on unofficial visits to get a feel for you, but really want to know what other schools you are talking to and visiting. You look a lot better if you have a busy schedule, but really good with other offers.

4. If no offer is made, then you have to keep actively looking for another school. This is where hope means nothing, offers mean everything.

Everyone’s situation will be different. There is no roadmap for this because every single college coach does it differently than the next one. For instance. This was also my second time. Totally different from the first. My daughter had multiple visits. Official and unofficial. She was offered on one official before she even went, offered during a second and not offered on a third although they said they would call with an offer. On the unofficials she was offered on every one of them. All at the meeting with the coach during he visit. She committed to an unofficial visit. Honestly, I think some schools do it to save money. Loyola doesn’t do their officials if they can get away with it until the kids sign officially and then they bring all the senior commits down on their official. Once again. Everyone is different.

[LaxDadMax]

Recruiting is nasty, but you know what happens when assumptions are made.

A few suggestions from someone who has gone through it a few times.

1. Was that visit an official visit? If so, coach usually (not always) makes an offer with a rough time line. The better the player, the more willing the coach will wait. If an offer is not extended, ask where your daughter is on their list at her position. The coach will probably be vague, but it's a good chance to see if your bs meter goes off.

2. Knowing what talent tier your daughter falls into is very important. Hopefully your club has given you realistic expectation. Clubs play both sides of the fence and too often. Recruiting is why we pay for club lacrosse, but the coaches hold the cards after you get past the top 150 recruits.

3. The coaches want to meet on unofficial visits to get a feel for you, but really want to know what other schools you are talking to and visiting. You look a lot better if you have a busy schedule, but really good with other offers.

4. If no offer is made, then you have to keep actively looking for another school. This is where hope means nothing, offers mean everything.

Everyone’s situation will be different. There is no roadmap for this because every single college coach does it differently than the next one. For instance. This was also my second time. Totally different from the first. My daughter had multiple visits. Official and unofficial. She was offered on one official before she even went, offered during a second and not offered on a third although they said they would call with an offer. On the unofficials she was offered on every one of them. All at the meeting with the coach during he visit. She committed to an unofficial visit. Honestly, I think some schools do it to save money. Loyola doesn’t do their officials if they can get away with it until the kids sign officially and then they bring all the senior commits down on their official. Once again. Everyone is different.

I’ve had three daughters commit and had 10 or 11 offers between them. None of them went on an official visit h til after they committed. I think six of the offers came before a visit and the rest came on the visit or within 24 hours.

I understand the reason for this as well. Coaches want all their commits together for an official visit and it actually makes for a great stress free weekend

[TNLAX]

Not shocked by that. College coaches are the equivalent to a used car salesman. You just have to hope your daughter/son gets a decent one.

This made me laugh. My perspective is that that most Club coaches and directors are like used car salesmen But I have been out of the game for a while so maybe that has changed. Always thought the college coaches my children had contact with were very very honest and straight forward.

[LaxDadMax]

Some overall thoughts on the this example.

1) I wasn't there so don't want to make any specific advice or armchair quarterbacking. But I've learned that there is a lot that is said between the lines at 16 year olds girls don't pickup on

2) I don't think all coaches are used car salesman. But lots are.

3) I trained my girls to end every conversation / visit with what are the next steps in the process. This helps drive the process forward to either make an offer or STFU.

4) At this point in the calendar, when most coaches are on their 2nd, 3rd or even 4th tier of offers, there really isn't time to shop around. Coaches know if a better opportunity is out there for a girl, it would have been taken and they are in the driver's seat. (unlike early September where for the most part girls had more options).

5) In all honesty, I can understand a coach's frustration on giving more time at this point. (though I agree that it should have been communicated less crypticly.

6) Often at this time of year, coaches may overoffer. example. "I need 1 more attacker, I'm going to make 3 offers and the first to accept gets the spot." Hasn't happened to us, but has happens to others.

[Relax77]

Not shocked by that. College coaches are the equivalent to a used car salesman. You just have to hope your daughter/son gets a decent one.

This made me laugh. My perspective is that that most Club coaches and directors are like used car salesmen But I have been out of the game for a while so maybe that has changed. Always thought the college coaches my children had contact with were very very honest and straight forward.

No. They’re the same as well. Not sure how long you’ve been through it but it’s one big scam where they are making a ton of money.

[ultravisitor]

We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step.

Here's the problem: sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. How fair is it to the coaches and other potential recruits for you to expect the coach to hold anything for you while you're going and exploring other options? If you're telling the coach that you're going to explore other options, then you're basically telling them that they're not much of a high priority for you. You're telling them that you're going to keep looking to see if there's something better than them.

[lacrossemwj]

Just got off the phone with a college coach - I won't say what school it was. She called one of my players on September 1st and told her she was one of their top recruits and set up a campus visit for her. My kid had a great visit and loved the schools and the players. My player followed up immediately after the visit to thank the coach. Coach replied back asking her if she thought she needed to go on the rest of her visits or did she want to take the next step. We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step. On the next phone call the coach told my player that they were not ready to make the next step right now and that she could be evaluating her over the November tournaments. Just can't believe a coach would string a kid along like this.

This is not even close to the worst example of coaches stringing players along that I've both observed and been a part of. It sounds like the coach was not willing to offer if your daughter was not a sure thing, and your daughter provided information that confirmed that she was not a sure thing. So they moved on.

[MolonLaxe]

Came across this article today, interesting on the topic of recruiting in non hotbed areas. Is that really necessary for girls to have to fly cross country to Maryland to be part of the scene? Seems like a lot but we are new to this. Wondering if girls who aren’t in the northeast really have to do all this:

https://www.toddburnham.com/lacrosse-br ... -colorado/

So many thoughts about this story..

1) Some girls from out of state often play on top teams in Maryland and Long Island. In fact, one Long Island team actively recruits the best players from the midwest

2) HOWEVER, Doing this as a 6th and 7th grader is insane. M&D's roster will turn over many times before recruiting starts. I've never heard of this happening at middle school unless there was already a connection with the club. e.g. The best 2028 in the country plays for Yellow Jackets, but her older sister played there before going to Maryland. Also, she doesn't fly to LI to practice.

3) Most importantly, Colorado is turning into a hotbed. They have one of the best club teams in the Country -- Team 180 is one of the top club teams in the country and routinely sends almost its entire team D1 every level and last year had 2 of the top 8 or 9 players in the country; Urban Elite which is a top 20 club at the 2029 age level, and 3D Colorado which won mid-atlantic for the 28 age group last summer.

This is likely an issue of parents trying to live out some dream, rather than being doing for pure lax development.

If the dad has the money as a lawyer to fly his kids to MD twice a month to practice, then good on him. It's not necessary at all, as just being a member of M&D Black will eventually get a ton of eyes on them for recruiting purposes. Also, there are good training opportunities in Colorado as people have moved out west.

I don't think there is anything magical about an M&D practice--most of the parents seem to think that isn't where their kids make real progress and I would tend to agree. Sometimes the best bang for the buck is working on physical abilities rather than flying them to MD for practices. I think there is some value to attending skills specific training from some groups, but I don't know that it requires 24 trips in a year.

Colorado is now recognized as an area with clubs good enough to draw in solid athletes, training them well enough to perform against some of the best competition, then giving them the experience of playing against those teams. Most teams composed of solid athletes seen great improvement in skills when they play out east for most of the fall and summer.

[Relax77]

We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step.

Here's the problem: sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. How fair is it to the coaches and other potential recruits for you to expect the coach to hold anything for you while you're going and exploring other options? If you're telling the coach that you're going to explore other options, then you're basically telling them that they're not much of a high priority for you. You're telling them that you're going to keep looking to see if there's something better than them.

While you may be right on what happened, doesn’t make the process right? It should be a two way street. So the coach can “have his/her cake and eat it too”, but a kid isn’t allowed to do the same. A coach ( and we know it is most if not all coaches) can leave a kid in limbo and ghost them after calling them or say right now you are our number 3 middie and we have an offer out, but a kid shouldn’t be allowed to do the same. Once again, if the coach was going to make an offer, just make the offer. What does it matter if sue is looking at other schools, they are looking at other players? It’s that simple. Make the offer, Give a time line and move on. What that kid did is no different than what the coaches do. It just seems like the kids coach/father got mad when the team moved on.

Now of course, judging on how a player is ranked, the above statement wouldn’t be an issue with seeing other options. One jersey player was offered by a team that showed up to her house after the dead period on the 4th. She told them she was gonna take multiple visits. Had the offer for three weeks. Went on multiple visits. Multiple offers and went back to the team who showed up to their house. And she wasn’t in the top 30. So it depends on the player skill s and coach.

Once again, I think you’re right in what happened, but some of these coaches need to be knocked down a peg. And if you’re gonna make an offer and you get insulted that a kid wants to weigh all her options, that’s ridiculous. Every team that offered my daughter knew she was going on visits and my daughter was honest and gave where the school sat in her ranking. No one got upset and “took their ball and went home.” We ran into a few “how dare you not take our phone call” coaches during the recruiting process. Let’s be honest, some of these coaches have insane egos. And this situation seems like that’s what it was.

[Relax77]

“This is not even close to the worst example of coaches stringing players along that I've both observed and been a part of. It sounds like the coach was not willing to offer if your daughter was not a sure thing, and your daughter provided information that confirmed that she was not a sure thing. So they moved on.”

I do however agree with this. It’s not the worst thing that a coach has done to my daughters during their recruiting process. Not even close.