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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:45 am
by cradleandshoot
runrussellrun wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:33 am
dislaxxic wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:23 am Is expanding universal background checks an infringement of anyone's Second Amendment rights?

..
Expanding checks....into what, exactly?

social media posts from 15 years ago?

Pictures of folks like pretend liberal Canadian Prime, Trudeau......being racists?

You didn't offer up, any details, as to what you want checked.....BUT.

BUT......we can tell you this fact. The current POTUSA thinks that Driving While Under the Influence of alcohol should not be a felony. Most states, DENY gun licenses to people that have been convicted of a felony.

But, Joe Biden, with all his years of experience and observations of the world, feels that someone getting a DUI should NOT prohibit them from obtaining a firearm. Or, just a handgun? or...or....or.

You tell us, you want expanded background checks.......into what? Who knows.

we have plenty of laws.......


we kick a kid of a wrestling team, bc of anger? your society wants to ignore these hurt people. shut them off from YOUR society. no different than what goes on at this little playhouse.

makes sense.......push all the "dangerous type" kids into the banes of existence......ignore them....what could go wrong?

bizarre, that the Boulder kids name is rarely mentioned.....and , how, it just doesn't jib with being placed on the "white national" thread, now does he?

come back with a substance reply, answers to what you feel should be "checked" in someones background.

these are complicated issues........you ignore them, pop off when the cnn sirens go off........ignore the over 60 gun killings, in Baltimore alone, so far, in 2021.

Of course, Biden killing Syrians, with mi$$les.........bc Biden passed a background check

principles....it is ok. to have them
+1 What is the definition of an assault weapon? The FLP gun haters on this forum should have a definition by now. If you all want to ban assault weapons you should at least be able to define to us all what an assault weapon is. Once you have defined that then you can define for the world how to identify what pornography is. 8-)

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52 am
by njbill
Overrule Heller and ban ‘em all. Simple. That’ll solve your problems. :lol:

In honor of Ralphie, we can exempt BB guns.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:00 am
by ggait
+1 What is the definition of an assault weapon?
Every law has a definition of what it applies to. For example, the Boulder City ordinance (like every law) has a written definition. Look it up and read it if you care about facts rather than lame trolling.

The shooter had an AR-15 rifle in addition to the Ruger. I'm not sure that police have said which weapon was used. But either would have been outlawed under the definition in said ordinance. The definition is what the definition says. It could not be more obvious or simple.

Data says the 1994 federal AWB worked pretty well. Obviously, it would have worked even better over time had it been left in place. Stupid to have let it lapse.

The scourge came to my town this week. I've been in that grocery store dozens of times. But it will come to your town soon enough (if it hasn't already). All so a bunch of fat white guys can diddle their peculiar fetish for a particular type of iron. Presumably because they are trying to over-compensate for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

7 kids wake up without their dad today. What is wrong with you people?

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:16 am
by cradleandshoot
ggait wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:00 am
+1 What is the definition of an assault weapon?
Every law has a definition of what it applies to. For example, the Boulder City ordinance (like every law) has a written definition. Look it up and read it if you care about facts rather than lame trolling.

The shooter had an AR-15 rifle in addition to the Ruger. I'm not sure that police have said which weapon was used. But either would have been outlawed under the definition in said ordinance. The definition is what the definition says. It could not be more obvious or simple.

Data says the 1994 federal AWB worked pretty well. Obviously, it would have worked even better over time had it been left in place. Stupid to have let it lapse.

The scourge came to my town this week. I've been in that grocery store dozens of times. But it will come to your town soon enough (if it hasn't already). All so a bunch of fat white guys can diddle their peculiar fetish for a particular type of iron. Presumably because they are trying to over-compensate for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

7 kids wake up without their dad today. What is wrong with you people?
You still can't define what an assault rifle is. Your a lawyer, you of all people should understand the legal complication on this issue. A 1903 Springfield is an assault rifle. An M1 Garand is an Assault rifle. I could go on and on and on. I understand why you are upset and angry. I am angry as well
I'm not angry at the weapon used. I'm angry at the person who used the weapon.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
by seacoaster
Ggait is just trying to point you to the Boulder Code definition. From the Google Machine, here it is:

"5-8-2. - Definitions.
The following terms used in this chapter have the following meanings unless the context clearly requires otherwise:

About the person means sufficiently close to the person to be readily accessible for immediate use. 2

Assault weapon means:

(a)All semi-automatic center-fire rifles that have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and that have any of the following characteristics:

(1)A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;
(2)A folding or telescoping stock; or
(3)Any protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(b)All semi-automatic center-fire pistols that have any of the following characteristics:

(1)Have the capacity to accept a magazine other than in the pistol grip; or
(2)Have a secondary protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(c)All semi-automatic shotguns that have any of the following characteristics:

(1)A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;
(2)Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
(3)A folding or telescoping stock;
(4)A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; or
(5)The capacity to accept a detachable magazine.

(d)Any firearm which has been modified to be operable as an assault weapon as defined herein.

(e)Any part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, including any combination of parts from which an assault weapon may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Constructive knowledge means knowledge of facts or circumstances sufficient to cause a reasonable person to be aware of the fact in question.

Illegal weapon means an assault weapon, large-capacity magazine, multi-burst trigger activator, blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife or switchblade knife.

Large-capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:

(a)A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds.(b)A 22-caliber tube rim-fire ammunition feeding device.(c)A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.(d)A pistol magazine designed to fit into a pistol grip that has a capacity to hold no more than fifteen rounds.
Locked container means a secure container which is enclosed on all sides and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar device.

Minor means a person under twenty-one years of age.

Multi-burst trigger activator means:

(a)A device that attaches to a firearm to allow the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst when the device is activated; or(b)A manual or power-driven trigger-activating device that, when attached to a firearm increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
Pistol grip means a grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon and that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

Provide means to give, lend, sell, or otherwise place in an unsecured location where a minor or other unauthorized or incompetent person could foreseeably gain access to a firearm.

Semi-automatic means a firearm that fires a single round for each pull of the trigger and automatically chambers a new round immediately after a round is fired."

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:28 am
by cradleandshoot
ggait wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:00 am
+1 What is the definition of an assault weapon?
Every law has a definition of what it applies to. For example, the Boulder City ordinance (like every law) has a written definition. Look it up and read it if you care about facts rather than lame trolling.

The shooter had an AR-15 rifle in addition to the Ruger. I'm not sure that police have said which weapon was used. But either would have been outlawed under the definition in said ordinance. The definition is what the definition says. It could not be more obvious or simple.

Data says the 1994 federal AWB worked pretty well. Obviously, it would have worked even better over time had it been left in place. Stupid to have let it lapse.

The scourge came to my town this week. I've been in that grocery store dozens of times. But it will come to your town soon enough (if it hasn't already). All so a bunch of fat white guys can diddle their peculiar fetish for a particular type of iron. Presumably because they are trying to over-compensate for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

7 kids wake up without their dad today. What is wrong with you people?
For the record g gait.. this old white guy owns one rifle. It is an M1 carbine of the same type my dad carried through France, Belgium and Germany. I don't even have any ammo for it anymore. Don't you dare lump all of us into a group that pigeon holes your definition of what a gun nut is. My focus is very simple and strait forward. Define what an assault weapon is. That is not what you think it is or what I think it is. Your a lawyer and a very smart guy. Do not tell me you don't understand why and how defining an assault weapon is almost impossible to do.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:29 am
by runrussellrun
ggait wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:00 am
+1 What is the definition of an assault weapon?
Every law has a definition of what it applies to. For example, the Boulder City ordinance (like every law) has a written definition. Look it up and read it if you care about facts rather than lame trolling.

The shooter had an AR-15 rifle in addition to the Ruger. I'm not sure that police have said which weapon was used. But either would have been outlawed under the definition in said ordinance. The definition is what the definition says. It could not be more obvious or simple.

Data says the 1994 federal AWB worked pretty well. Obviously, it would have worked even better over time had it been left in place. Stupid to have let it lapse.

The scourge came to my town this week. I've been in that grocery store dozens of times. But it will come to your town soon enough (if it hasn't already). All so a bunch of fat white guys can diddle their peculiar fetish for a particular type of iron. Presumably because they are trying to over-compensate for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

7 kids wake up without their dad today. What is wrong with you people?
As a member of this club called "USA", I will remain legally armed, in the exact manner as those sworn to "protect and serve you..."

Boulder police violating their own city councils "assault weapons" ban?

got it.....different rules for the thug pigs........got it.

carry on.....Bloomberg needs more armed guards.

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Executive ... 7ce5769493

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am
by RedFromMI
ggait wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:00 am
+1 What is the definition of an assault weapon?
Every law has a definition of what it applies to. For example, the Boulder City ordinance (like every law) has a written definition. Look it up and read it if you care about facts rather than lame trolling.

The shooter had an AR-15 rifle in addition to the Ruger. I'm not sure that police have said which weapon was used. But either would have been outlawed under the definition in said ordinance. The definition is what the definition says. It could not be more obvious or simple.

Data says the 1994 federal AWB worked pretty well. Obviously, it would have worked even better over time had it been left in place. Stupid to have let it lapse.

The scourge came to my town this week. I've been in that grocery store dozens of times. But it will come to your town soon enough (if it hasn't already). All so a bunch of fat white guys can diddle their peculiar fetish for a particular type of iron. Presumably because they are trying to over-compensate for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

7 kids wake up without their dad today. What is wrong with you people?
As far as I can tell, the definition of "assault weapon" in the Boulder, CO code is:
Assault weapon means:

(a) All semi-automatic center-fire rifles that have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and that have any of the following characteristics:

(1) A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;

(2) A folding or telescoping stock; or

(3) Any protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(b) All semi-automatic center-fire pistols that have any of the following characteristics:

(1) Have the capacity to accept a magazine other than in the pistol grip; or

(2) Have a secondary protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(c) All semi-automatic shotguns that have any of the following characteristics:

(1) A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;

(2) Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(3) A folding or telescoping stock;

(4) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; or

(5) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine.

(d) Any firearm which has been modified to be operable as an assault weapon as defined herein.

(e) Any part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, including any combination of parts from which an assault weapon may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am
by Brooklyn
Image



... interesting ...

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
by runrussellrun
Brooklyn wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am Image



... interesting ...
What do we type in, to prove more of your lies wrong.......

Assuming these are state legislatures.

What part of the law, will make it "harder" for people to vote?

a photo ID ? like a vaxx passport for covid, that kind of "hard"

we are SO done with you infotainment liars.....


can't defend the claim?

don't post

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
by DMac
Same discussion after every one of these tragedies, and they are indeed very sad and hard to understand.
Anyone got any solutions though?

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:42 am
by cradleandshoot
seacoaster wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am Ggait is just trying to point you to the Boulder Code definition. From the Google Machine, here it is:

"5-8-2. - Definitions.
The following terms used in this chapter have the following meanings unless the context clearly requires otherwise:

About the person means sufficiently close to the person to be readily accessible for immediate use. 2

Assault weapon means:

(a)All semi-automatic center-fire rifles that have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and that have any of the following characteristics:

(1)A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;
(2)A folding or telescoping stock; or
(3)Any protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(b)All semi-automatic center-fire pistols that have any of the following characteristics:

(1)Have the capacity to accept a magazine other than in the pistol grip; or
(2)Have a secondary protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(c)All semi-automatic shotguns that have any of the following characteristics:

(1)A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;
(2)Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
(3)A folding or telescoping stock;
(4)A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; or
(5)The capacity to accept a detachable magazine.

(d)Any firearm which has been modified to be operable as an assault weapon as defined herein.

(e)Any part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, including any combination of parts from which an assault weapon may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Constructive knowledge means knowledge of facts or circumstances sufficient to cause a reasonable person to be aware of the fact in question.

Illegal weapon means an assault weapon, large-capacity magazine, multi-burst trigger activator, blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife or switchblade knife.

Large-capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:

(a)A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds.(b)A 22-caliber tube rim-fire ammunition feeding device.(c)A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.(d)A pistol magazine designed to fit into a pistol grip that has a capacity to hold no more than fifteen rounds.
Locked container means a secure container which is enclosed on all sides and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar device.

Minor means a person under twenty-one years of age.

Multi-burst trigger activator means:

(a)A device that attaches to a firearm to allow the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst when the device is activated; or(b)A manual or power-driven trigger-activating device that, when attached to a firearm increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
Pistol grip means a grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon and that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

Provide means to give, lend, sell, or otherwise place in an unsecured location where a minor or other unauthorized or incompetent person could foreseeably gain access to a firearm.

Semi-automatic means a firearm that fires a single round for each pull of the trigger and automatically chambers a new round immediately after a round is fired."
The venerable M1 Garand was the finest assault rifle ever made. It fits none of the parameters you just mentioned. It is fed by an 8 round internal clip that is ejected from the rifle when the last round is fired. The 1903 Springfield was probably the second finest assault rifle ever made. Good luck trying to find consensus on what an assault rifle really is. My M1 carbine is every bit an assault rifle, it was never used nor described as such. There will be a futile attempt at banning assault rifles that will never fly as long as there is a 2nd amendment.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:44 am
by cradleandshoot
DMac wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am Same discussion after every one of these tragedies, and they are indeed very sad and hard to understand.
Anyone got any solutions though?
You are spot on Dmac. You have a description for what an assault rifle should be?

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:49 am
by cradleandshoot
RedFromMI wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am
ggait wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:00 am
+1 What is the definition of an assault weapon?
Every law has a definition of what it applies to. For example, the Boulder City ordinance (like every law) has a written definition. Look it up and read it if you care about facts rather than lame trolling.

The shooter had an AR-15 rifle in addition to the Ruger. I'm not sure that police have said which weapon was used. But either would have been outlawed under the definition in said ordinance. The definition is what the definition says. It could not be more obvious or simple.

Data says the 1994 federal AWB worked pretty well. Obviously, it would have worked even better over time had it been left in place. Stupid to have let it lapse.

The scourge came to my town this week. I've been in that grocery store dozens of times. But it will come to your town soon enough (if it hasn't already). All so a bunch of fat white guys can diddle their peculiar fetish for a particular type of iron. Presumably because they are trying to over-compensate for perceived inadequacies elsewhere.

7 kids wake up without their dad today. What is wrong with you people?
As far as I can tell, the definition of "assault weapon" in the Boulder, CO code is:
Assault weapon means:

(a) All semi-automatic center-fire rifles that have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and that have any of the following characteristics:

(1) A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;

(2) A folding or telescoping stock; or

(3) Any protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(b) All semi-automatic center-fire pistols that have any of the following characteristics:

(1) Have the capacity to accept a magazine other than in the pistol grip; or

(2) Have a secondary protruding grip or other device to allow the weapon to be stabilized with the non-trigger hand.

(c) All semi-automatic shotguns that have any of the following characteristics:

(1) A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;

(2) Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(3) A folding or telescoping stock;

(4) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; or

(5) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine.

(d) Any firearm which has been modified to be operable as an assault weapon as defined herein.

(e) Any part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, including any combination of parts from which an assault weapon may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
I had to chuckle at one definition. The ability to accept a detachable magazine. You just made about a hundred billion rifles of all types illegal right there. My friend use to have a 22 rifle that had a 10 round detachable magazine. A 22 short round makes for one hell of a pizz poor assault rifle, unless your intended victim is disguised as a beer can.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
by ggait
You still can't define what an assault rifle is. Your a lawyer, you of all people should understand the legal complication on this issue.
Stop being silly.

Every AWB has to have a written definition. The Boulder city ordinance, for example, had one. You can read it if you really are interested. It applied to both the Ruger pistol and the AR-15 this shooter had. If there's an over or under-reach with a particular legal definition, then the definition can be amended to be more appropriate. Happens all the time with every law on the books.

There's nothing at all special about gun laws as compared to laws on all other subjects -- it has to define what it does/does not apply to. EVERY law is an exercise in line drawing. What is murder vs manslaughter? What is drunk vs. sober driving? When is the tread on your tires too thin to be legal for dry pavement? Or for wet/snow pavement?

As compared to what other laws have to define, defining what is/is not an AW is fairly easy and straightforward.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:56 am
by ggait
Here's a proposed solution.

Make it harder to get an assault weapon than it is to vote.

Both are rights -- both can be regulated.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:56 am
by Brooklyn
runrussellrun wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
Brooklyn wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am https://i.imgur.com/Ao32ppR.jpg



... interesting ...
What do we type in, to prove more of your lies wrong.......

Assuming these are state legislatures.

What part of the law, will make it "harder" for people to vote?

a photo ID ? like a vaxx passport for covid, that kind of "hard"

we are SO done with you infotainment liars.....


can't defend the claim?

don't post



:roll: Huh ~ did ya say something?

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:57 am
by DMac
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:44 am
DMac wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am Same discussion after every one of these tragedies, and they are indeed very sad and hard to understand.
Anyone got any solutions though?
You are spot on Dmac. You have a description for what an assault rifle should be?
Nope, but this wouldn't be considered an assault rifle by the definition I'm reading here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fMN8a3ZRUY
Can do an awful lot of damage with one these in a very short time. I can get eight rounds in
mine and unload them pretty darn quickly and accurately. A complicated problem and one I
have no solution for.

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:11 pm
by a fan
DMac wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am Same discussion after every one of these tragedies, and they are indeed very sad and hard to understand.
Anyone got any solutions though?
SImple.

Get the people like you and Holmes and Cradle together, and have YOU craft the gun restrictions. And craft them in a way that really sticks it to illegal use and storage of guns.

From there? Put together real funding for mental health in America.

Do those two things? The libs will back off. But what we've been doing is---absolutely NOTHING. Not even token changes to either guns or mental health. What message does that send to people who are sick of this insanity?

Re: Sensible Gun Control

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:18 pm
by ggait
Nope, but this wouldn't be considered an assault rifle by the definition I'm reading here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fMN8a3ZRUY
Can do an awful lot of damage with one these in a very short time. I can get eight rounds in
mine and unload them pretty darn quickly and accurately. A complicated problem and one I
have no solution for.
This is such a silly, bad faith argument.

How many mass shootings occurred from 1994-2004 using this type of 8 shooter?

If there were many, then perhaps the definition should have been tweeked.

If there weren't many/any, then maybe then the line-drawing of the 94 definition was pretty good. Line-drawing (on guns or anything else) is the most commonplace exercise.

And doing nothing in the face of these slaughters sends a powerful affirming message to the culture and the crazies that do these things. Most effective part of MADD's campaign against drunk driving really wasn't the tougher laws that were enacted. It was changing the culture -- drunk drivers went from cool party guys to dangerous outcasts. Peer pressure works pretty well.