All Things Russia & Ukraine

[a fan]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

[a fan]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

? You made fun of me when I pointed this out years ago. That Putin can't do what he wants, because he doesn't have the money.

Yes. It's scaremongering to say Putin is a threat to NATO, and there's NO WAY Putin can attack Nato without getting wiped out.

I'll take comfort that we finally agree on Putin's impotence after years of arguing about it.

I made fun of you when you said Putin was not a threat to Ukraine & was too weak to invade.

How'd that work out ?

It worked out great. Because I never said he can't invade Ukraine.

Crimea ring a bell anywhere? He had ALREADY invaded Ukraine as you and I were discussing things under Obama.

Kinda hard to claim I said he couldn't invade Ukraine...when he had already done that.

What I made fun of.....and what you are hilariously and finally agreeing with me on....is the idea of Putin invading a NATO nation.

THAT is what I told you Putin doesn't have the money for.....it ain't 1955. And this ain't the Soviets at peak power.

[old salt]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Putin won't get all of Ukraine, unless the govt & military collapse completely. Not likely.

Let's see if the EU is willing to take the lead. If it's really a threat to them, they will do much more.

[old salt]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

? You made fun of me when I pointed this out years ago. That Putin can't do what he wants, because he doesn't have the money.

Yes. It's scaremongering to say Putin is a threat to NATO, and there's NO WAY Putin can attack Nato without getting wiped out.

I'll take comfort that we finally agree on Putin's impotence after years of arguing about it.

I made fun of you when you said Putin was not a threat to Ukraine & was too weak to invade.

How'd that work out ?

It worked out great. Because I never said he can't invade Ukraine.

Crimea ring a bell anywhere? He had ALREADY invaded Ukraine as you and I were discussing things under Obama.

Kinda hard to claim I said he couldn't invade Ukraine...when he had already done that.

What I made fun of.....and what you are hilariously and finally agreeing with me on....is the idea of Putin invading a NATO nation.

THAT is what I told you Putin doesn't have the money for.....it ain't 1955. And this ain't the Soviets at peak power.

He didn't invade Crimea. He walked in & accepted the keys.

[a fan]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

? You made fun of me when I pointed this out years ago. That Putin can't do what he wants, because he doesn't have the money.

Yes. It's scaremongering to say Putin is a threat to NATO, and there's NO WAY Putin can attack Nato without getting wiped out.

I'll take comfort that we finally agree on Putin's impotence after years of arguing about it.

I made fun of you when you said Putin was not a threat to Ukraine & was too weak to invade.

How'd that work out ?

It worked out great. Because I never said he can't invade Ukraine.

Crimea ring a bell anywhere? He had ALREADY invaded Ukraine as you and I were discussing things under Obama.

Kinda hard to claim I said he couldn't invade Ukraine...when he had already done that.

What I made fun of.....and what you are hilariously and finally agreeing with me on....is the idea of Putin invading a NATO nation.

THAT is what I told you Putin doesn't have the money for.....it ain't 1955. And this ain't the Soviets at peak power.

He didn't invade Crimea. He walked in & accepted the keys.

How about: "yeah, you're right. You never said that".

And move on?

[njbill]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

Look at what Trump did during his first term. He increased our combat power in Europe & moved it east to protect the Baltic states & Poland.
He made NATO stronger by hectoring & browbeating our EU allies to spend more on NATO's shared defense. He pushed them to be less energy dependent on Russia. He gave Ukraine the weapons & military training that were difference makers when they repelled the initial Russian invasion.

Pay attention to what Trump does, not what he says.

Actually, Trump made NATO much weaker. That’s why Putin didn’t take more aggressive steps in Ukraine. He knew that if he did, Trump would be forced by domestic politics to aggressively respond. Putin is playing the long game. He wanted Trump to weaken NATO, as he did.

If Trump had won a second term, there is a good chance he would’ve pulled the US out of NATO (de facto if not de jure (depends on how many votes he’d have had in the Senate)) which would have been a wet dream for Putin. Fortunately, Biden has built NATO back up to its strongest position in the history of the alliance. Even was able to add Sweden and Finland. So Putin, the master strategist, really got boxed in.

Putin wants Trump back in office so he will cut off all aid to Ukraine and further weaken NATO. If aid is cut off from Ukraine, Putin stands a much better chance of conquering the country. From there, he moves to the Baltic states. He knows Trump will renege on our article 5 obligations and not send US troops if Putin invades the Baltic states. Concurrently with that, Putin will tell Trump to pull the US out of NATO. As always, Trump will do his bidding.

[njbill]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

[JoeMauer89]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

Look at what Trump did during his first term. He increased our combat power in Europe & moved it east to protect the Baltic states & Poland.
He made NATO stronger by hectoring & browbeating our EU allies to spend more on NATO's shared defense. He pushed them to be less energy dependent on Russia. He gave Ukraine the weapons & military training that were difference makers when they repelled the initial Russian invasion.

Pay attention to what Trump does, not what he says.

Actually, Trump made NATO much weaker. That’s why Putin didn’t take more aggressive steps in Ukraine. He knew that if he did, Trump would be forced by domestic politics to aggressively respond. Putin is playing the long game. He wanted Trump to weaken NATO, as he did.

If Trump had won a second term, there is a good chance he would’ve pulled the US out of NATO (de facto if not de jure (depends on how many votes he’d have had in the Senate)) which would have been a wet dream for Putin. Fortunately, Biden has built NATO back up to its strongest position in the history of the alliance. Even was able to add Sweden and Finland. So Putin, the master strategist, really got boxed in.

Putin wants Trump back in office so he will cut off all aid to Ukraine and further weaken NATO. If aid is cut off from Ukraine, Putin stands a much better chance of conquering the country. From there, he moves to the Baltic states. He knows Trump will renege on our article 5 obligations and not send US troops if Putin invades the Baltic states. Concurrently with that, Putin will tell Trump to pull the US out of NATO. As always, Trump will do his bidding.

njbill,

You are absolutely reaching here. Put aside your dislike for Trump for just one second. This is not what will happen.

Joe

[njbill]

I sure hope not, but how many things have happened under Trump that people have said would never happen?

[JoeMauer89]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

njbill,

Interesting, seems you have been spending a lot of time on Trump's campaign stuff. Didn't know you were privy on what he plans to do should he return to office. Focus on what does if he gets into office again, NOT what he says. Unless this is your way of reverse appealing to posters on this forum to not vote for Trump?

Joe

[MDlaxfan76]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

? You made fun of me when I pointed this out years ago. That Putin can't do what he wants, because he doesn't have the money.

Yes. It's scaremongering to say Putin is a threat to NATO, and there's NO WAY Putin can attack Nato without getting wiped out.

I'll take comfort that we finally agree on Putin's impotence after years of arguing about it.

I made fun of you when you said Putin was not a threat to Ukraine & was too weak to invade.

How'd that work out ?

It worked out great. Because I never said he can't invade Ukraine.

Crimea ring a bell anywhere? He had ALREADY invaded Ukraine as you and I were discussing things under Obama.

Kinda hard to claim I said he couldn't invade Ukraine...when he had already done that.

What I made fun of.....and what you are hilariously and finally agreeing with me on....is the idea of Putin invading a NATO nation.

THAT is what I told you Putin doesn't have the money for.....it ain't 1955. And this ain't the Soviets at peak power.

Only if the US stays committed fully to NATO.
Without that commitment, Ukraine collapses.
And NATO splinters, potentially dissolving altogether as Putin bites off pieces.

I think you greatly underestimate the weight of the Russian military machine and overweight NATO resolve, absent the US.

[MDlaxfan76]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

njbill,

Interesting, seems you have been spending a lot of time on Trump's campaign stuff. Didn't know you were privy on what he plans to do should he return to office. Focus on what does if he gets into office again, NOT what he says. Unless this is your way of reverse appealing to posters on this forum to not vote for Trump?

Joe

Joe, a heck of a lot of us actually believe what Trump says. What he winks and nods about, while then denying what he said. And we don't think the institutional guard rails will be in place in 2025, unlike the frictions he faced in 2017.

And a whole lot of us understand that Trump has no friggin' clue about history or world affairs, rather he's attracted solely to power and money and self-aggrandizement.

So, yeah, don't vote for Trump.

[JoeMauer89]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

njbill,

Interesting, seems you have been spending a lot of time on Trump's campaign stuff. Didn't know you were privy on what he plans to do should he return to office. Focus on what does if he gets into office again, NOT what he says. Unless this is your way of reverse appealing to posters on this forum to not vote for Trump?

Joe

Joe, a heck of a lot of us actually believe what Trump says. What he winks and nods about, while then denying what he said. And we don't think the institutional guard rails will be in place in 2025, unlike the frictions he faced in 2017.

And a whole lot of us understand that Trump has no friggin' clue about history or world affairs, rather he's attracted solely to power and money and self-aggrandizement.

So, yeah, don't vote for Trump.

Why are you speaking for others on this site? The people that you are referring have never visited this site a day in their entire life. Trump is not a great candidate we can agree on that, but to lots of people he's better than the current Democratic Incumbent. He also does say a lot of turd he never actually goes through with. To deny that is living in la-la land. Are you going to move to another country if Trump gets elected? No, you won't. Some of the rhetoric your pushing can be justified as over the top and dangerous in its own right. Seemingly comes from an inability to get past the person itself, sometimes politics is about more than just that.

Joe

[a fan]

Only if the US stays committed fully to NATO.
Without that commitment, Ukraine collapses.
And NATO splinters, potentially dissolving altogether as Putin bites off pieces.

I think you greatly underestimate the weight of the Russian military machine and overweight NATO resolve, absent the US.

No. I think you're nuts if you think the US will leave NATO anytime soon. Not with Russia at war. Not a chance.

And by "anytime soon".....I mean a generation, at least.

[JoeMauer89]

Only if the US stays committed fully to NATO.
Without that commitment, Ukraine collapses.
And NATO splinters, potentially dissolving altogether as Putin bites off pieces.

I think you greatly underestimate the weight of the Russian military machine and overweight NATO resolve, absent the US.

No. I think you're nuts if you think the US will leave NATO anytime soon. Not with Russia at war. Not a chance.

And by "anytime soon".....I mean a generation, at least.

+1

Joe

[njbill]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

njbill,

Interesting, seems you have been spending a lot of time on Trump's campaign stuff. Didn't know you were privy on what he plans to do should he return to office. Focus on what does if he gets into office again, NOT what he says. Unless this is your way of reverse appealing to posters on this forum to not vote for Trump?

Joe

“Don’t listen to what Trump says, look at what he does” has been the MAGA mantra for eight years now. Many were fooled by it once, but I don’t think they will be fooled this time. Moreover, it is too dangerous to wait to see what he actually does.

Did anybody ever think he would lead an armed insurrection to try to overthrow the government?

Obviously at this point, all we can do is make predictions. He has not taken any “actions” in a second term as yet. My predictions are what I have outlined. You disagree, which is fine.

The other angle here is that Trump will be nearly broke in a year or two once he has to pay all the judgments against him after the appeals have concluded. My prediction is that he will do deals with Putin, selling out our country, in return for money to replenish his coffers. I’m sure you disagree with that one, too.

Let me turn it around. Put aside your love for Trump and tell me he isn’t going to use the levers of power in a second term to make money.

[a fan]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

Disagree.

NATO isn't just about military. It's about money.

What do you think would happen to the world's markets if Trump left NATO while Putin was at active war with a neighbor?

In the end, NJBill? The folks calling the shots in America (and the world) want stability, and money. Pulling out of NATO would cost the world's 1%ers WAY too much money.

Will never happen so long as Putin is alive. I can see Trump making all sort of squirrelly deals with Putin that lines both their pockets. But that's as far as it goes.

Just my opinion. Money is where all the fooling around stops for these people.

[a fan]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

njbill,

Interesting, seems you have been spending a lot of time on Trump's campaign stuff. Didn't know you were privy on what he plans to do should he return to office. Focus on what does if he gets into office again, NOT what he says. Unless this is your way of reverse appealing to posters on this forum to not vote for Trump?

Joe

“Don’t listen to what Trump says, look at what he does” has been the MAGA mantra for eight years now. Many were fooled by it once, but I don’t think they will be fooled this time. Moreover, it is too dangerous to wait to see what he actually does.

Did anybody ever think he would lead an armed insurrection to try to overthrow the government?

Obviously at this point, all we can do is make predictions. He has not taken any “actions” in a second term as yet. My predictions are what I have outlined. You disagree, which is fine.

The other angle here is that Trump will be nearly broke in a year or two once he has to pay all the judgments against him after the appeals have concluded. My prediction is that he will do deals with Putin, selling out our country, in return for money to replenish his coffers. I’m sure you disagree with that one, too.

Now THIS i agree with...and we already see it with Kushner "accidentally" getting a couple billion dollars from the very people and county he focused his work on while working for taxpayers.

Some day we'll find out why they gave him that money.

[njbill]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

Disagree.

NATO isn't just about military. It's about money.

What do you think would happen to the world's markets if Trump left NATO while Putin was at active war with a neighbor?

In the end, NJBill? The folks calling the shots in America (and the world) want stability, and money. Pulling out of NATO would cost the world's 1%ers WAY too much money.

Will never happen so long as Putin is alive. I can see Trump making all sort of squirrelly deals with Putin that lines both their pockets. But that's as far as it goes.

Just my opinion. Money is where all the fooling around stops for these people.

OK, we disagree then.

I think there is no chance Trump would send American boys into battle. Even if he couldn’t get the country formally to leave NATO (he’d surely try to get his DOJ and, if necessary, the Supreme Court to rule the legislation passed last year is unconstitutional), he would define what our involvement would be as the commander-in-chief. He would slow walk and minimize our role to the extent possible. If the commander-in-chief says we’re only going to send 35 soldiers and they can’t serve on the front lines, that is what will happen.

Trump doesn’t care about the world or anybody in the world. He doesn’t care about his wife, his children, or his grandchildren. He only cares about himself and his money. As I have been saying for a long time now, his number one goal if he got reelected would be to get the criminal cases against him dismissed. His number two goal will be to make money since he will be flat broke soon. He will do anything at all to make money, including deals with Putin. He does not care what the rest of the world will think or do if the US pulls out of NATO or if the US were drag its feet in honoring its article 5 obligations.

If the world markets were to collapse, Trump would look at it as a business opportunity to buy up stuff at fire sale prices. That is the way he operates.

[njbill]

Putin is just saber rattling. Do you want him to overrun Eastern Europe, then Germany, then France, then invade England? That’s what he wants to do. Standing up to him is the right thing to do. Not to mention required by our NATO treaty obligations (if he invades a NATO country).

Fantasty scaremongering. Putin is bogged down in Ukraine. He can't even keep his troops on his own border supplied.

Well, that is what Putin wants to do and will do if he could find a way to pull it off. How many times has he said he wants to reconstitute the old Soviet empire, which includes hegemony over the old Soviet bloc states? Zero chance he'd stop there.

At the beginning of the war, people were saying he'd be in Kiev in a couple of days. That is certainly what Putin intended. As things have turned out -- with huge help from the West -- Ukraine has been able to fend him off for now. But Putin is in this for the long game. He is hoping the West will grow tired (politically, financially, and militarily) of supporting Ukraine. He is hoping his puppet Trump will win the election so that he can continue his aggression in Ukraine just as he was doing under Trump. Trump, the liar, of course ignores the fact that Putin was fighting and seeking to gain ground in eastern Ukraine during the entire Trump presidency. Trump has already publicly said he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. Trump wants to pull the US out of NATO. He has said he won't honor Article 5. He won't come to the aid of any NATO ally if Russia attacks.

Scaremongering? More like a sober assessment of what Putin intends and what Trump would allow.

There's a difference between getting all of Ukraine, and invading a NATO country.

The first is clearly possible.

The second? Not a chance.

Not under Biden, but definitely possible under Trump. Trump will not honor our treaty obligations and, in fact, will pull the country out of NATO if Putin tells him to do so, which he will.

njbill,

Interesting, seems you have been spending a lot of time on Trump's campaign stuff. Didn't know you were privy on what he plans to do should he return to office. Focus on what does if he gets into office again, NOT what he says. Unless this is your way of reverse appealing to posters on this forum to not vote for Trump?

Joe

“Don’t listen to what Trump says, look at what he does” has been the MAGA mantra for eight years now. Many were fooled by it once, but I don’t think they will be fooled this time. Moreover, it is too dangerous to wait to see what he actually does.

Did anybody ever think he would lead an armed insurrection to try to overthrow the government?

Obviously at this point, all we can do is make predictions. He has not taken any “actions” in a second term as yet. My predictions are what I have outlined. You disagree, which is fine.

The other angle here is that Trump will be nearly broke in a year or two once he has to pay all the judgments against him after the appeals have concluded. My prediction is that he will do deals with Putin, selling out our country, in return for money to replenish his coffers. I’m sure you disagree with that one, too.

Now THIS i agree with...and we already see it with Kushner "accidentally" getting a couple billion dollars from the very people and county he focused his work on while working for taxpayers.

Some day we'll find out why they gave him that money.