Orange Duce

[holmes435]

As you probably know, there is a debate kind of raging in the non-background about this issue:

Con:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/opin ... e=Homepage

Pro:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/24/opin ... ution.html

Yeah, I was more predicting what I think Biden is gonna do. Try to be a "uniter", put Trump in the rearview and ignore him, but on the sly encourage the states to go full bore so he doesn't have to get his own hands dirty.

[seacoaster]

As you probably know, there is a debate kind of raging in the non-background about this issue:

Con:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/opin ... e=Homepage

Pro:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/24/opin ... ution.html

Yeah, I was more predicting what I think Biden is gonna do. Try to be a "uniter", put Trump in the rearview and ignore him, but on the sly encourage the states to go full bore so he doesn't have to get his own hands dirty.

As you know, in theory Biden will not be able to "direct" the AG to do anything like this, because of the independence of the Department of Justice. On the issue of whether to investigate/prosecute, I am pretty firmly on the fence. Part of me thinks a prosecution of the Trump Syndicate would effectively martyrize the disgraceful family in the eyes of the adoring rubes who appear to support him. Part of me thinks if he and Jared and Ivana Jr. committed federal crimes, they should be brought to account, the way you and I might be if we were criminal grifters. OK, I am starting to lean....

[ggait]

I think a good solution would be for Biden's AG to simply allow the documents to come out.

We know that the Trump WH and Barr's DOJ abused the classification and redaction process to keep sketchy things private. So let out the facts, and leave Trump to the press and NYS/NYC.

And if Trump isn't being actively prosecuted, it probably becomes easier to let the sunshine in.

Would love to see an unredacted Mueller report.

[njbill]

Not sure if a violation of District of Columbia criminal law would be considered a federal offense and, thus, eligible for a pardon from dear old daddy-o. Probably, but I’m not positive about that.

So if you rob a liquor store in DC-----the Feds take the case?

No, there are local DC laws and local prosecutors, but I’m not sure if DC laws would be considered federal laws for pardon purposes.

I probably should know as I was licensed in the District (technically still am) and worked there for almost 10 years.
Never had a case involving a presidential pardon and its potential applicability to a DC crime though.

DC law is something of a hybrid. The locals have the power to enact legislation, but I think Congress can override it if they choose to do so. They generally don’t, however.

Maybe we will get a test case. That would require darling daughter to be indicted in the District and for dear old dad to have pardoned her.

[njbill]

Biden has said he will leave the decision as to whether or not to prosecute T**** to his AG. I hope he will really do so and will not put his thumb on the scale one way or the other.

I’ve expressed my views on this before and they remain unchanged.

I think T**** should be prosecuted for the obstruction of justice crimes that Bob Mueller found he committed. Mueller is a Republican. He was appointed by a Republican. He was working in a Republican DOJ. So a Republican investigated him, and a Republican found that he committed crimes.

Of course T**** would scream bloody murder if that were to happen, but he screams bloody murder when anything doesn’t go his way.

The two key reasons that cut against prosecuting T**** are that we don’t want to be a banana republic where predecessor politicians are prosecuted just for the sport of it. Also, there is the sentiment that the country should move on from T**** and put him behind us (the Ford principle).

On the other hand, it seems very problematic to me to have a system in which a president can’t be charged with crimes while he is in office and then isn’t charged with crimes once he has left office “for the good of the country.” Under such a scenario, the president truly has a get out of jail free card.

Also letting T**** off scot-free would violate the important legal precept that no man is above the law.

In terms of the actual obstruction of justice crime that T**** committed, to me it is extremely problematic if the president is allowed to interfere with and even try to squelch investigations of his friends and associates. That is very dangerous to our system of justice and our democracy. The crime should not go unpunished.

If T**** has committed any tax crimes, for which he may currently be being investigated, he should be prosecuted for those as well. No one should be permitted to evade their tax obligations, even the former president.

Beyond that, I don’t think that federal prosecutors should turn over every stone to find each and every federal crime that T**** has committed though there likely are many, including some serious ones.

The states should be free to prosecute any crimes they believe have been committed.

[Farfromgeneva]

Not sure if a violation of District of Columbia criminal law would be considered a federal offense and, thus, eligible for a pardon from dear old daddy-o. Probably, but I’m not positive about that.

So if you rob a liquor store in DC-----the Feds take the case?

There are misdemeanors in DC. Have multiple friends who have picked up DUIs a while back there.

I do know the Feds run the local jail because it was so out of control in the 1980s that they had no choice. People were being burned alive, COs (both corrupt and not corrupt) were regularly murdered etc.

[a fan]

Not sure if a violation of District of Columbia criminal law would be considered a federal offense and, thus, eligible for a pardon from dear old daddy-o. Probably, but I’m not positive about that.

So if you rob a liquor store in DC-----the Feds take the case?

There are misdemeanors in DC. Have multiple friends who have picked up DUIs a while back there.

I do know the Feds run the local jail because it was so out of control in the 1980s that they had no choice. People were being burned alive, COs (both corrupt and not corrupt) were regularly murdered etc.

Crazy. I lived in DC for years, and had no idea. Guess I wasn't enough of a delinquent to find out the hard way!

[Matnum PI]

Trump promotes claim that Reno hospital's expansion COVID-19 ward is fake. As someone said, he may not be the worst President the country has had, but he's the worst person ever to serve as President.
https://apnews.com/article/media-social ... bf874a9934

[youthathletics]

Trump promotes claim that Reno hospital's expansion COVID-19 ward is fake. As someone said, he may not be the worst President the country has had, but he's the worst person ever to serve as President.
https://apnews.com/article/media-social ... bf874a9934

Why are the hotter climate states still having issues, if they did not during the summer? Mask usage has been up. And their numbers are lower now than they were in August. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-s ... &tab=trend

[dislaxxic]

'They broke the law': DC attorney general rebuts Ivanka Trump's attack over inauguration case

Ivanka Trump, along with the Trump Organization, has been under investigation for years for suspicions around the conduct of the president's 2017 inaugural committee and its funding. This week, she found herself being deposed for reportedly more than five hours by the D.C. attorney general as the investigation continues, leading her to lash out and accuse the investigators of being politically motivated.

But Karl Racine, the attorney general in question, hit back, saying it is clear the Trump family and the inaugural committee broke the law.

At the heart of the investigation is the question of whether the Trump family use inaugural funds for extensive self-dealing. Because the committee, which raised an unprecedented amount of funds, spent much of its money on Trump properties, it could have been illegally funneling money to the family by charging egregiously high amounts for Trump Organization services.

Trumpists shrug: they like her b00bs (no, not a reference to her father...)

..

[ardilla secreta]

Trump promotes claim that Reno hospital's expansion COVID-19 ward is fake. As someone said, he may not be the worst President the country has had, but he's the worst person ever to serve as President.
https://apnews.com/article/media-social ... bf874a9934

Why are the hotter climate states still having issues, if they did not during the summer? Mask usage has been up. And their numbers are lower now than they were in August. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-s ... &tab=trend

Infectious lizards.

[njbill]

Trump promotes claim that Reno hospital's expansion COVID-19 ward is fake. As someone said, he may not be the worst President the country has had, but he's the worst person ever to serve as President.
https://apnews.com/article/media-social ... bf874a9934

I would say he is both the worst person to hold the office and the worst president in US history. In fact, I would rank him about 50 on the list of presidents, leaving room for a few more dirt balls.

[seacoaster]

A thread devoted to the issue of whether to investigate/prosecute Trump:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jadler1969/s ... 3481681921

And:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/29/am ... ump-nixon/

And:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... nt/616804/

[holmes435]

'They broke the law': DC attorney general rebuts Ivanka Trump's attack over inauguration case

Ivanka Trump, along with the Trump Organization, has been under investigation for years for suspicions around the conduct of the president's 2017 inaugural committee and its funding. This week, she found herself being deposed for reportedly more than five hours by the D.C. attorney general as the investigation continues, leading her to lash out and accuse the investigators of being politically motivated.

But Karl Racine, the attorney general in question, hit back, saying it is clear the Trump family and the inaugural committee broke the law.

At the heart of the investigation is the question of whether the Trump family use inaugural funds for extensive self-dealing. Because the committee, which raised an unprecedented amount of funds, spent much of its money on Trump properties, it could have been illegally funneling money to the family by charging egregiously high amounts for Trump Organization services.

Trumpists shrug: they like her b00bs (no, not a reference to her father...)

..

I saw an "Ivanka 2024" sticker on a truck a few weeks ago. Still a dozen or so houses with Trump flags and signs in their yards. No Biden signs, but a few of the "we believe in science" signs.

[3rdPersonPlural]

[RedFromMI]

Shocker:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJHarwood ... 7042701316

This one could get VERY interesting very fast.

While much of the opinion is redacted, there are some interesting tidbits. It seems DOJ obtained some 50 devices (iPhones, iPads, etc.) pursuant to search warrants. To get a search warrant, you must convince a judge that there is probable cause a crime was committed. Sounds like the crime was bribery: money in exchange for a pardon.

If I were going to offer big bucks for a pardon, I would want to make darn sure that the president is on board, either from a direct conversation with him or a conversation with someone who could speak for him with pretty much 100% certainty.

Also sounds like the person who wanted the pardon was or had been incarcerated. Two key people who would qualify would be Manafort and Cohen. No idea if it is one of them or if it is someone else, maybe someone unknown to the public.

One person who pretty much has to be very closely involved is T**** because he is the only one who can grant a pardon.

The government evidently uncovered a lot of communications from the devices that conceivably could be protected by attorney-client privilege. So they petitioned the court for a ruling. The court ruled that some number of the communications are not privileged because they were sent to, sent by, or copied to non-attorneys in circumstances that negated the conclusion that the communications were privileged.

The judge’s decision was rendered on August 28. She held it for 90 days, however, and now it has been released with pretty heavy reductions.

If people were lining up to pay money to T**** in exchange for pardons this past summer, how long is the line now?

From a few minutes ago on my Twitter feed:

Ken Vogel, NYT

SCOOP: The pardon-bribery probe was of ELLIOTT BROIDY & ABBE LOWELL seeking clemency for a convicted tax evader.

The late billionaire SANFORD DILLER enlisted them & would make “a substantial" political donation in exchange for the pardon, per prosecutors.

https://t.co/YCSthwDo9I

[holmes435]

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3565956 ... 000.u3.jpg

I think it was this one or something similar. A lot more presidential looking...

[Kinduv]

w0n't happen, d0n jr f0r president and ivanka f0r vp and eric f0r att0rney genera1 in 2024, after trump in 2020!!!

[njbill]

Interesting.

[seacoaster]

Pardon me?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/0 ... ons-442727

"President Donald Trump is considering preemptively pardoning as many as 20 aides and associates before leaving office, frustrating Republicans who believe offering legal reprieves to his friends and family members could backfire.

Trump’s strategy, like much of his presidency, is nontraditional. He is eschewing the typical protocol of processing cases through the Justice Department. And he may argue that such preemptive pardons for his friends and family members are necessary to spare them from paying millions in legal fees to fight what he describes as witch hunts. Those up for clemency include everyone from Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, to several members of his family — all people who haven’t been charged with a crime. Weighing on Trump’s mind is whether these pardons would look like an admission of guilt.

Republicans, as they often have when Trump appears about to bulldoze through another norm, are expressing some initial hesitation — but they’re not telling him to stop.

“That is in a category that I think you’d probably run into a lot of static,” said Sen. Mike Braun (R-Ind.). “That’s charting new territory, I’m guessing. I don’t think that’s ever been attempted before.”

The result is yet another looming showdown between Trump and the broader Republican Party.

And the potential squabble has taken on added significance as Trump prepares to leave the White House next month. The GOP is grappling with how closely it wants to remain aligned with Trump after his presidency. While the president has turned off voters with his controversial actions — including his past use of the pardon power to spare allies — he retains a loyal following and is mulling a 2024 presidential run. More imminently, Republicans need Trump’s base to turn out in the Jan. 5 Georgia Senate runoff elections, which will decide which party controls the Senate.

GOP senators said Trump would be stepping on political landmines if he grants clemency to his family and associates, even as they noted presidents have broad pardon authority. Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), a Trump ally and a former state attorney general, acknowledged that such a move by the president would be unprecedented.

“I’m not sure what form it would take. It’s kind of an interesting legal question,” he said. “I’m not aware of analog.”

Trump has not made any decisions about pardons as he and his team contemplate both the legal considerations and political consequences, according to three people familiar with the discussions, all of whom speak to the president. Some around Trump are worried the president could tarnish his legacy or harm a future campaign if he’s too expansive with his 11th-hour pardons.

Roughly 20 top aides and associates are on tap for a potential pardon, though the list is evolving, according to one of the people. The list includes Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, who run the family’s namesake business, and Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, a husband-and-wife duo who are both senior aides at the White House. All four were involved in Trump’s reelection campaign."