LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:28 pm Brett McGurk disagrees. Incoherence and betrayal on full display. Mission reversal without warning to US troops on the ground. The value of a US handshake is depreciating by the week.

What do you expect from a guy that shorts payments for carpet and linoleum?

Was the Pentagon surprised? Turkey was poised and ready to strike.

"Erdogan sees Trump weak & under attack at home. He's seizing the opportunity to end the "limbo".
He knows the US can't protect our troops in Syria & won't risk conflict with Turkey & blow up NATO over the SDF(PKK).
What are we gonna do, withold Turkey's F-35s ?"

You're right; whenever we don't have direct and decisive leverage over an ally, they should get to do whatever they want. What. The. F*ck. Happened. To. You.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/0 ... ers-037958

Potus went rogue.

The President is spineless and again placing his own personal interests ahead of the the nation's.

"Donald Trump got "rolled" by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a National Security Council source with direct knowledge of the discussions told Newsweek.

In a scheduled phone call on Sunday afternoon between President Trump and President Erdogan, Trump said he would withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria. The phone call was scheduled after Turkey announced it was planning to invade Syria, and hours after Erdogan reinforced his army units at the Syrian-Turkish border and issued his strongest threat to launch a military incursion, according to the National Security Council official to whom Newsweek spoke on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. withdrawal plays into the hands of the Islamic State group, Damascus and Moscow, and the announcement left Trump's own Defense Department "completely stunned," said Pentagon officials. Turkey, like the United States, wants regime change in Syria. Russia and Iran support the Assad regime.

"President Trump was definitely out-negotiated and only endorsed the troop withdraw to make it look like we are getting something—but we are not getting something," the National Security Council source told Newsweek. "The U.S. national security has entered a state of increased danger for decades to come because the president has no spine and that's the bottom line."

Newsweek granted the National Security Council official anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. The source said it would not be surprising to see a Turkish incursion in the next 24 to 96 hours.

Turkey has long considered the Kurdish militia in Syria to be a terrorist insurgency, despite the United States providing military and financial aid to the group in its fight against ISIS, the Islamic State militant group. A battle with the vastly superior military of Turkey, a NATO ally, could drive the Kurds into the arms of Bashar Al-Assad, the Syrian dictator that Washington wants ousted, and by extension into an alliance with Russia and Iran, two U.S. rivals with forces in Syria.

The White House said late Sunday evening in a statement that Turkey will soon invade northern Syria but both the Defense Department and Trump on Twitter said they made clear to Turkey that they do not endorse a Turkish operation in northern Syria.

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I've done before!)," said Trump on Twitter Monday. "They must, with Europe and others, watch over the captured ISIS fighters and families...it is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory."
According to the NSC official, who had first-hand knowledge of the phone call, Trump did not endorse any Turkish military operation against Kurdish Forces, but also did not threaten economic sanctions during the phone call if Turkey decided to undertake offensive operations.

In a statement, White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham said, "The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial "Caliphate," will no longer be in the immediate area."

The New York Times reported Monday that about 100 to 150 American forces would withdraw from northern Syria but not completely from the country. Newsweek confirmed the Times reporting but the National Security Council official said the number was closer to 230 service members, among them U.S. Special Forces and reconnaissance units.

The Times also reported witnesses observed United States forces withdraw from two observation posts in Tel Abyad and Ein Eissa in northeastern Syria. Newsweek confirmed these on Monday—a senior Defense Department official said American forces are about 90 percent complete with the withdraw as of publication.

One of the main issues in the phone call between the two world leaders concerned the roughly 2,000 Islamic State militant prisoners being held by the Kurdish-dominated Syrian Defense Forces in northeastern Syria, who the U.S. military assists financially.

Trump told Erdogan he did not want anything to do with ISIS prisoners despite the United States not currently detaining Islamic State prisoners in Syria. The Syrian Defense Forces control custody of the prisoners.

Erdogan said Turkey would take custody of the ISIS militant prisoners, according to the White House statement and the National Security Council official Newsweek spoke to for this story.

"The ISIS prisoners, some of them, will eventually be freed amongst the chaos, and remain in the area or go elsewhere to rejoin the fight," speculated the National Security Council official.

The White House statement on Sunday also expressed Trump's long-held frustration with how other NATO-allied countries had dealt with captured Islamic State group fighters. The statement singled out "France, Germany and other European nations," for refusing to take back their citizens who had joined the Islamic State militant group.

U.S. Army General Mark A. Milley, Trump's newly minted chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, is scheduled to meet with the service chiefs this morning to discuss the matter, said National Security Council source.

The National Security Council official said they could not speak about what Trump's admirals and generals may plan, but said they would not expect anything out of the usual norms as the Defense Department follows orders with or without advanced knowledge.

If the United States had refused to move out of Turkey's war path, U.S options would not just be the threat of potential conflict between nation-state militaries, it would have been applied pressure on the Turkish economy, according to the National Security Council official.

However, the United States chose not to stand its ground to protect Kurdish Forces against Turkish airstrikes as a part of Trump's "America First policy" and his historical views that war is bad for business, according to the official."

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-offi ... ne-1463623

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_cache ... -final.pdf

Why would we withdraw from Open Skies? Any good reasons?

Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:49 pm https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_cache ... -final.pdf

Why would we withdraw from Open Skies? Any good reasons?

My first thought? Trump has realized that he is between a rock and a hard place and is spewing out executive decisions before the walls cave in and he has to leave his perch and have Pence pardon him.

This alone would cause Impeachment activity. But, now, What the heck, right?

Sorry for late replies - football season started - I am the tailgate chef so it all starts on Thursday - OS disappointed the Boys in Blue lost - good luck to the Mids - ran into a friend I played ball with at AF at the PSU game this past weekend - lots of fun until the following morning - age sucks;
Anyone who uses Newsweek as a credible source - alrighty. I taught one semester in finance and technology at a liberal arts school in Rochester as a favor to a friend - I had a kid use Playboy as references in his paper - to me that is the same;
If everybody wants to stick in Syria, here is an idea, go through Boot Camp, then one of the many Special Forces school, spend another year in training, take a pay-cut and go get your arse shot at - if you are too old then have one of your kids do it and see what it is like to worry every night - he said he was going to do it and he did;
As far as the IC it amazes me that everyone now is some kind of superhero and always right yet it is the same people who called the ball wrong on Iraq, Syria, Bosnia, Iran, I will stop there. My interactions with the IC was about 50% of the time they called it correctly;
As far as Open Skies - what has that deterred - a buddy of mine sent me pictures of pilots asleep at the wheel - heavy duty guard duty - he said he was going to get out of it and he did.
Before anyone calls me a Trumpster or whatever other silly names being used out here - nope - call the ball fairly.
Finally, it is ironic that many folks on the left never ever want to go to war and now the hysteria that he is pulling out of a very small area.......go figure. The hysteria.
Best

seacoaster wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:41 pm "Erdogan sees Trump weak & under attack at home. He's seizing the opportunity to end the "limbo".
He knows the US can't protect our troops in Syria & won't risk conflict with Turkey & blow up NATO over the SDF(PKK).
What are we gonna do, withold Turkey's F-35s ?"

You're right; whenever we don't have direct and decisive leverage over an ally, they should get to do whatever they want. What. The. F*ck. Happened. To. You.

Trump decided to do something that if Obama had done it would be beyond stupid, Trump does it - it isn't beyond stupid it is "what else can we do?". Oh, that's right we have defeated ISIS. They are no more. Its called hypocrisy, is what happened.

Josh Marshall (Talking Points Memo) points out on twitter with respect to the Newsweek article (Trump with no spine and got rolled by the Turks) that the information made its way to the press in less than a day - and concludes things are starting to collapse (in the administration).

LandM wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:25 pm Sorry for late replies - football season started - I am the tailgate chef so it all starts on Thursday - OS disappointed the Boys in Blue lost - good luck to the Mids - ran into a friend I played ball with at AF at the PSU game this past weekend - lots of fun until the following morning - age sucks;
Anyone who uses Newsweek as a credible source - alrighty. I taught one semester in finance and technology at a liberal arts school in Rochester as a favor to a friend - I had a kid use Playboy as references in his paper - to me that is the same;
If everybody wants to stick in Syria, here is an idea, go through Boot Camp, then one of the many Special Forces school, spend another year in training, take a pay-cut and go get your arse shot at - if you are too old then have one of your kids do it and see what it is like to worry every night - he said he was going to do it and he did;
As far as the IC it amazes me that everyone now is some kind of superhero and always right yet it is the same people who called the ball wrong on Iraq, Syria, Bosnia, Iran, I will stop there. My interactions with the IC was about 50% of the time they called it correctly;
As far as Open Skies - what has that deterred - a buddy of mine sent me pictures of pilots asleep at the wheel - heavy duty guard duty - he said he was going to get out of it and he did.
Before anyone calls me a Trumpster or whatever other silly names being used out here - nope - call the ball fairly.
Finally, it is ironic that many folks on the left never ever want to go to war and now the hysteria that he is pulling out of a very small area.......go figure. The hysteria.
Best

Trump is the CinC. It is his call. He knows more than the Generals.

TLD,
I never said that - I said he told the American public what he was going to do and he is doing it. Why this is such a surprise just blows my mind. I may not like it but he is doing what he said he was going to do. There is an election next year.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:27 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:41 pm "Erdogan sees Trump weak & under attack at home. He's seizing the opportunity to end the "limbo".
He knows the US can't protect our troops in Syria & won't risk conflict with Turkey & blow up NATO over the SDF(PKK).
What are we gonna do, withold Turkey's F-35s ?"

You're right; whenever we don't have direct and decisive leverage over an ally, they should get to do whatever they want. What. The. F*ck. Happened. To. You.

Trump decided to do something that if Obama had done it would be beyond stupid, Trump does it - it isn't beyond stupid it is "what else can we do?". Oh, that's right we have defeated ISIS. They are no more. Its called hypocrisy, is what happened.

Trump is playing chess. This is all a win-win for him. He is pandering to his base on his “campaign to-do list”. And he can walk the pull out back on account of pentagon advising not to do so.

LandM wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:01 pm TLD,
I never said that - I said he told the American public what he was going to do and he is doing it. Why this is such a surprise just blows my mind. I may not like it but he is doing what he said he was going to do. There is an election next year.

He should have done it day 1. Not after Mattis and the generals made more representations to the Kurds and had them committing their blood to a goal we didn't want to spend our blood on.

LandM wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:01 pm TLD,
I never said that - I said he told the American public what he was going to do and he is doing it. Why this is such a surprise just blows my mind. I may not like it but he is doing what he said he was going to do. There is an election next year.

I know you didn't say it....Trump did..... The good Ol' US of A has been breaking treaties since its infancy. No big deal.....forked tongue.

Anyone remember how Erdogan’s security staff beat Kurdish protesters right here in Washington DC in May 2017?

https://twitter.com/VOATurkish/status/8 ... 7972540417

seacoaster wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:41 pm "Erdogan sees Trump weak & under attack at home. He's seizing the opportunity to end the "limbo".
He knows the US can't protect our troops in Syria & won't risk conflict with Turkey & blow up NATO over the SDF(PKK).
What are we gonna do, withold Turkey's F-35s ?"

You're right; whenever we don't have direct and decisive leverage over an ally, they should get to do whatever they want. What. The. F*ck. Happened. To. You.

I'm addressing the reality of the situation we face.
Would you prefer some sugarcoated fairy tale happy talk ?
Erdogan's telling us he's waited 11 mos & nothing's changed.
He's got over a million Syrian refugees he's got to do something with.
He's telling us he's going to move, Get your 100 troops out of the way,
If we don't like it, we can get out of Incirlik.

Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:37 pm Was the Pentagon surprised? Turkey was poised and ready to strike.

If they were, it's another intel fail. We had US troops doing joint patrols.

Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:28 pm Brett McGurk disagrees. Incoherence and betrayal on full display. Mission reversal without warning to US troops on the ground. The value of a US handshake is depreciating by the week.

If McGurk, Mattis or anyone else told the Kurds to expect anything other than this from Trump, that's on them.

They got nearly a year of delay from when Trump announced he was pulling out & fullfilling his campaign pledge.
Trump gave fair warning -- we're out of the nation building & regime change business.
So long as the US has forces there, it's our problem.
Allies & neighbors are happy to sit on their hands.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:26 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:23 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:07 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:02 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:57 pm Recall that I'm happy that we're leaving Syria. What worries me is that Trump isn't telling Erdogan to stay out of Syria. Seems like a bad idea to let them in there without us around.

For critics who say that Trump got rolled -- it should be obvious by now that we have little influence & leverage over Erdogan.

Our Russian apologists should be cheering... mirrored talking points.....

...& what in that RT analysis do you dispute ?

Erdogan sees Trump weak & under attack at home. He's seizing the opportunity to end the "limbo".
He knows the US can't protect our troops in Syria & won't risk conflict with Turkey & blow up NATO over the SDF(PKK).
What are we gonna do, withold Turkey's F-35s ?

That the USA military is no more than a door stop.... you disagree?

100 light infantry troops doing joint patrols aren't even a speed bump.
Their air support is housed on a Turkish Air Base.
Sure thing. Let's jump ugly with the Turks.

“This isn't hard – not supporting our longtime allies the Kurds means we are surrendering the Middle East to Iran, Russia and Turkey and it tells our friends that an alliance with America means nothing. Be nice with nice guys and tough with tough guys not the other way around.”
Rep Will Hurd