LaxPower Back-Up Stick

CU77 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:54 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:41 am your and others' defense of cuomo (and several other governors who did the same) is nonsensical on this issue.
the fact that people have died in nursing homes across the country is not the issue.

the fact that some governors made it an actual law (or policy, depending) that nursing homes had to take back covid patients by threat of punishment, wouldn't allow them to test them for covid, didn't utilize facilities available to the states for the purpose of overcrowding but rather stuff them in nursing homes... for MONTHS plural until the media and political spotlight was too bright on them.... is the issue.

This needs to be put in the context of overflowing hospitals and NO GUIDANCE FROM THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT about the best practices in that situation, as well as huge shortages of PPE, huge shortages of covid testing ability, and NO NATIONAL SURGE ON PPE AND TESTING, NO NATIONAL PLAN for how to deal with hospital overflows.

This is the UNITED States of America. The states and their governors RELY ON THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT to provide crucial guidance and help in a situation like a pandemic of a new disease. That's been the deal for the past 200 years: NATIONAL problems require the NATIONAL GOVERNMENT TO ACT AND ADVISE.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:09 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:56 am Let's be honest, Cuomo sucks. He comes from a political royalty family (not totally different from Spitzer) and was coddled all the way into his seat by supporters of Mario. He's basically a DC insider mentally in NY who probably hasn't spent much time west of Alabany Academy other than maybe an occasional vacation of ribbon cutting around the Finger or Thousand Lakes.

But continuously bringing him up to deflect all the gross stuff and moronic actions or inactivity of certain other folks is just nonsense.

I was on a conference call with his father the day after he lost to Pataki. I met him once before that when we were looking to do something with the NYHA. Some development project in NYC. The only thing I remember about the meeting is riding in a limo with Cuomo and the guy that was running the NYHA program was leaving to go work in private equity. He later showed us a high yield deal that we took to DLJMB. It was not quite large enough. I believe $100MM was the size needed to make sense back then. I remember thinking these government guys have good networks that can be leveraged. The state Treasurers have platinum Rolodexes.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:15 pm

CU77 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:54 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:41 am your and others' defense of cuomo (and several other governors who did the same) is nonsensical on this issue.
the fact that people have died in nursing homes across the country is not the issue.

the fact that some governors made it an actual law (or policy, depending) that nursing homes had to take back covid patients by threat of punishment, wouldn't allow them to test them for covid, didn't utilize facilities available to the states for the purpose of overcrowding but rather stuff them in nursing homes... for MONTHS plural until the media and political spotlight was too bright on them.... is the issue.

This needs to be put in the context of overflowing hospitals and NO GUIDANCE FROM THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT about the best practices in that situation, as well as huge shortages of PPE, huge shortages of covid testing ability, and NO NATIONAL SURGE ON PPE AND TESTING, NO NATIONAL PLAN for how to deal with hospital overflows.

This is the UNITED States of America. The states and their governors RELY ON THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT to provide crucial guidance and help in a situation like a pandemic of a new disease. That's been the deal for the past 200 years: NATIONAL problems require the NATIONAL GOVERNMENT TO ACT AND ADVISE.

i don't disagree with this. in real time, however, what actually happened was cuomo forced facilities to take them whether they could or wanted to or not. there was lots of reporting on this. from healthcare workers, to nursing home directors. they were threatened and forced to take patients. said they would ve violating the (new) law.
he was juggling many things. but he also had 2 empty huge facilities at his disposal. there were a number of options he could've chose, and chose poorly. his eye was on what might be coming instead of who and how and why. he wouldn't even let suspected patients be tested.
https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/healt ... a0947d74f1
then he DID try to blame it on guidance. still does. he had some guidance and twisted it into a mandate without protocols bc he panicked.

i don't hate cuomo. i think he's a politician. they get their own special category unless they show me otherwise.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:15 pm

CU77 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:54 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:41 am your and others' defense of cuomo (and several other governors who did the same) is nonsensical on this issue.
the fact that people have died in nursing homes across the country is not the issue.

the fact that some governors made it an actual law (or policy, depending) that nursing homes had to take back covid patients by threat of punishment, wouldn't allow them to test them for covid, didn't utilize facilities available to the states for the purpose of overcrowding but rather stuff them in nursing homes... for MONTHS plural until the media and political spotlight was too bright on them.... is the issue.

This needs to be put in the context of overflowing hospitals and NO GUIDANCE FROM THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT about the best practices in that situation, as well as huge shortages of PPE, huge shortages of covid testing ability, and NO NATIONAL SURGE ON PPE AND TESTING, NO NATIONAL PLAN for how to deal with hospital overflows.

This is the UNITED States of America. The states and their governors RELY ON THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT to provide crucial guidance and help in a situation like a pandemic of a new disease. That's been the deal for the past 200 years: NATIONAL problems require the NATIONAL GOVERNMENT TO ACT AND ADVISE.

i don't disagree with this. in real time, however, what actually happened was cuomo forced facilities to take them whether they could or wanted to or not. there was lots of reporting on this. from healthcare workers, to nursing home directors. they were threatened and forced to take patients. said they would ve violating the (new) law.
he was juggling many things. but he also had 2 empty huge facilities at his disposal. there were a number of options he could've chose, and chose poorly. his eye was on what might be coming instead of who and how and why. he wouldn't even let suspected patients be tested.
https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/healt ... a0947d74f1
then he DID try to blame it on guidance. still does. he had some guidance and twisted it into a mandate without protocols bc he panicked.

i don't hate cuomo. i think he's a politician. they get their own special category unless they show me otherwise.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:21 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:09 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:56 am Let's be honest, Cuomo sucks. He comes from a political royalty family (not totally different from Spitzer) and was coddled all the way into his seat by supporters of Mario. He's basically a DC insider mentally in NY who probably hasn't spent much time west of Alabany Academy other than maybe an occasional vacation of ribbon cutting around the Finger or Thousand Lakes.

But continuously bringing him up to deflect all the gross stuff and moronic actions or inactivity of certain other folks is just nonsense.

I was on a conference call with his father the day after he lost to Pataki. I met him once before that when we were looking to do something with the NYHA. Some development project in NYC. The only thing I remember about the meeting is riding in a limo with Cuomo and the guy that was running the NYHA program was leaving to go work in private equity. He later showed us a high yield deal that we took to DLJMB. It was not quite large enough. I believe $100MM was the size needed to make sense back then. I remember thinking these government guys have good networks that can be leveraged. The state Treasurers have platinum Rolodexes.

Aren't you in RI? I have partied with a guy named Frank Caprio a number of times who was once state treasurer of RI. He's close to a good friend who was a founder, now left and moved to Dallas and does a few deals with his own money, Frank lost office and is nominally employed by my friend's old mezzanine debt fund now. Could tell you some funny, funny stories about that guy. They also have two rich chinese kids as analysts. That's how the PE/HF world rolls.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:21 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:09 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:56 am Let's be honest, Cuomo sucks. He comes from a political royalty family (not totally different from Spitzer) and was coddled all the way into his seat by supporters of Mario. He's basically a DC insider mentally in NY who probably hasn't spent much time west of Alabany Academy other than maybe an occasional vacation of ribbon cutting around the Finger or Thousand Lakes.

But continuously bringing him up to deflect all the gross stuff and moronic actions or inactivity of certain other folks is just nonsense.

I was on a conference call with his father the day after he lost to Pataki. I met him once before that when we were looking to do something with the NYHA. Some development project in NYC. The only thing I remember about the meeting is riding in a limo with Cuomo and the guy that was running the NYHA program was leaving to go work in private equity. He later showed us a high yield deal that we took to DLJMB. It was not quite large enough. I believe $100MM was the size needed to make sense back then. I remember thinking these government guys have good networks that can be leveraged. The state Treasurers have platinum Rolodexes.

Aren't you in RI? I have partied with a guy named Frank Caprio a number of times who was once state treasurer of RI. He's close to a good friend who was a founder, now left and moved to Dallas and does a few deals with his own money, Frank lost office and is nominally employed by my friend's old mezzanine debt fund now. Could tell you some funny, funny stories about that guy. They also have two rich chinese kids as analysts. That's how the PE/HF world rolls.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:24 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:15 pm

CU77 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:54 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:41 am your and others' defense of cuomo (and several other governors who did the same) is nonsensical on this issue.
the fact that people have died in nursing homes across the country is not the issue.

the fact that some governors made it an actual law (or policy, depending) that nursing homes had to take back covid patients by threat of punishment, wouldn't allow them to test them for covid, didn't utilize facilities available to the states for the purpose of overcrowding but rather stuff them in nursing homes... for MONTHS plural until the media and political spotlight was too bright on them.... is the issue.

This needs to be put in the context of overflowing hospitals and NO GUIDANCE FROM THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT about the best practices in that situation, as well as huge shortages of PPE, huge shortages of covid testing ability, and NO NATIONAL SURGE ON PPE AND TESTING, NO NATIONAL PLAN for how to deal with hospital overflows.

This is the UNITED States of America. The states and their governors RELY ON THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT to provide crucial guidance and help in a situation like a pandemic of a new disease. That's been the deal for the past 200 years: NATIONAL problems require the NATIONAL GOVERNMENT TO ACT AND ADVISE.

i don't disagree with this. in real time, however, what actually happened was cuomo forced facilities to take them whether they could or wanted to or not. there was lots of reporting on this. from healthcare workers, to nursing home directors. they were threatened and forced to take patients. said they would ve violating the (new) law.
he was juggling many things. but he also had 2 empty huge facilities at his disposal. there were a number of options he could've chose, and chose poorly. his eye was on what might be coming instead of who and how and why. he wouldn't even let suspected patients be tested.
https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/healt ... a0947d74f1
then he DID try to blame it on guidance. still does. he had some guidance and twisted it into a mandate without protocols bc he panicked.

i don't hate cuomo. i think he's a politician. they get their own special category unless they show me otherwise.

Chilling next to Judas while being chewed up by a three headed monster?

Scientists who signed the letter said that the new guidelines did not go far enough in heeding the evidence of airborne spread.

“WHO’s slow motion on this issue is unfortunately slowing the control of the pandemic,” said Jose Jimenez, a University of Colorado chemist. He said that much of the public is already ahead of the WHO when it comes to masks.

“Masks should be worn in indoor settings, away from home, at all times, no matter the distance,” Jimenez said. “Aerosols are most effective in transmission at short distances, but they can mix widely within a room and lead to infection, as many super-spreading cases have shown already.”

At the heart of the scientific debate is the size of the particles that people exhale and whether those particles quickly fall to a surface or hover in the air. The droplets that humans expel when they cough, sneeze or breathe vary widely and can break into smaller pieces in the air.

Skeptics of airborne transmission say particles larger than 5 microns are too heavy to travel more than six feet.

But Jimenez said that was shown to be incorrect by studies conducted as early as 1934. He said a 50-micron particle might stay in the air for 20 seconds, a 5-micron particle for 15 minutes and a 1-micron particle for hours.

“It is shocking to see a major international organization continue to propagate this error,” he said.

Donald Milton, a University of Maryland aerosol expert, said “peer-reviewed scientific publications clearly demonstrate that particles even as large as 30 microns can move on air currents and travel more than 10 meters indoors.”

He and other researchers said the basic concept has been well established and that debating the finer points had wasted valuable time as the coronavirus spread.

CU77 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:17 pm

Scientists who signed the letter said that the new guidelines did not go far enough in heeding the evidence of airborne spread.

“WHO’s slow motion on this issue is unfortunately slowing the control of the pandemic,” said Jose Jimenez, a University of Colorado chemist. He said that much of the public is already ahead of the WHO when it comes to masks.

“Masks should be worn in indoor settings, away from home, at all times, no matter the distance,” Jimenez said. “Aerosols are most effective in transmission at short distances, but they can mix widely within a room and lead to infection, as many super-spreading cases have shown already.”

At the heart of the scientific debate is the size of the particles that people exhale and whether those particles quickly fall to a surface or hover in the air. The droplets that humans expel when they cough, sneeze or breathe vary widely and can break into smaller pieces in the air.

Skeptics of airborne transmission say particles larger than 5 microns are too heavy to travel more than six feet.

But Jimenez said that was shown to be incorrect by studies conducted as early as 1934. He said a 50-micron particle might stay in the air for 20 seconds, a 5-micron particle for 15 minutes and a 1-micron particle for hours.

“It is shocking to see a major international organization continue to propagate this error,” he said.

Donald Milton, a University of Maryland aerosol expert, said “peer-reviewed scientific publications clearly demonstrate that particles even as large as 30 microns can move on air currents and travel more than 10 meters indoors.”

He and other researchers said the basic concept has been well established and that debating the finer points had wasted valuable time as the coronavirus spread.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ganization

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:30 pm i don't surprise easily in 2020, but i am utterly shocked american (or is it ameriCAN?) producers, large and small, aren't kicking out medical masks like there's no tomorrow for the public, and marketing them like crazy.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:30 pm i don't surprise easily in 2020, but i am utterly shocked american (or is it ameriCAN?) producers, large and small, aren't kicking out medical masks like there's no tomorrow for the public, and marketing them like crazy.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:39 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:30 pm i don't surprise easily in 2020, but i am utterly shocked american (or is it ameriCAN?) producers, large and small, aren't kicking out medical masks like there's no tomorrow for the public, and marketing them like crazy.

It’s a high tech process in many ways. Not just anyone can produce a real N95 mask.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:46 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:39 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:30 pm i don't surprise easily in 2020, but i am utterly shocked american (or is it ameriCAN?) producers, large and small, aren't kicking out medical masks like there's no tomorrow for the public, and marketing them like crazy.

It’s a high tech process in many ways. Not just anyone can produce a real N95 mask.

that may be the case. however...
- we put a man on the moon in the 60s
- 3m i believe does most of their manuf for them in china or the far east? and they have u.s. production facilities?
- i am talking about disposable medical masks primarily. which china is making maybe in sweatshops with sewing machines. and long standing and recent research has them being effective, and in and out of the healthcare environment just as effective. at least according to the WHO. our "non-medical" masks and bandanas? not so much.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:39 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:30 pm i don't surprise easily in 2020, but i am utterly shocked american (or is it ameriCAN?) producers, large and small, aren't kicking out medical masks like there's no tomorrow for the public, and marketing them like crazy.

It’s a high tech process in many ways. Not just anyone can produce a real N95 mask. I remember when the fiber optic cable supply was a hard market. I know guys that were in touch with the WH during the early stages of the pandemic. Explaining how the process works. They have added in a line that will significant volume for Honeywell.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:54 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:39 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:30 pm i don't surprise easily in 2020, but i am utterly shocked american (or is it ameriCAN?) producers, large and small, aren't kicking out medical masks like there's no tomorrow for the public, and marketing them like crazy.

It’s a high tech process in many ways. Not just anyone can produce a real N95 mask. I remember when the fiber optic cable supply was a hard market. I know guys that were in touch with the WH during the early stages of the pandemic. Explaining how the process works. They have added in a line that will significant volume for Honeywell.

My wife has to wear an N95 mask for 8 hours everyday. She has to use the same mask all week. Her facility is short on everything they need. Masks, gowns, face shields, booties, head bonnets, disinfecting wipes. There is just not enough PPE in the supply chain. You can buy all this stuff on line. For some reason, normal purchasing channels can't meet the demands. It you want to shell out your own money.... no problemo.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:26 pm Cases have been rising for more than 2 weeks while deaths continue to decrease. Narrative fail.

Democrats upset people aren’t dying (I don’t have a graph for this).