Recruiting

[watcherinthewoods]

I am not endorsing or excusing this practice ... BUT:

Some of the best advice we ever got in recruiting was to MOVE ON. These coaches (the good ones) are working a process. If you don't immediately (or ever) hear back from them, you are not a priority or you not on their list any longer because the kids ahead of you accepted. This is classic passive aggressive behavior, but the message is pretty clear. If this is your dream school, keep following up. You may still get the call, but best to pursue other options. And if you do get the call, know that you will be coming in as a #8, #9 or #10 recruit in the eyes of the coaching staff.

[MolonLaxe]

I am not endorsing or excusing this practice ... BUT:

Some of the best advice we ever got in recruiting was to MOVE ON. These coaches (the good ones) are working a process. If you don't immediately (or ever) hear back from them, you are not a priority or you not on their list any longer because the kids ahead of you accepted. This is classic passive aggressive behavior, but the message is pretty clear. If this is your dream school, keep following up. You may still get the call, but best to pursue other options. And if you do get the call, know that you will be coming in as a #8, #9 or #10 recruit in the eyes of the coaching staff.

I think this is a fair practice. It can be frustrating when you hear college coaches state you need to respond to them during the process (this is said on various recruiting discussions, etc.), but they fail to respond to you or let you know where things stand. A no is 100% better than no response at all.

With that being said, it's still so early in the process, so parents and players need to understand the time spent early on is with the recruits they are targeting first. I've heard some kids wanted to give up around 9/15 and all I can say is, if you're willing to give up then, don't play a sport in college. You haven't even begun to understand how long some things may take--like seeing the field.

[Kleizaster]

Can anyone remember when the last commitment "flip" occurred in women's lax? I'm thinking Wurzburger from cuse to unc in 2020 but maybe another low profile flip occurred after that i'm not aware of. I find this interesting. Even with the rule changes, this is still prevalent in the men's game whereas it's been almost eliminated completely in the women's game.

Even thinking back to when these flips were happening, they still didn't really occur that often for women's lax. Is it just harder to flip in the women's game? Are coaches in the women's game less likely to budge once they have their classes set? is it a more complicated process? or maybe girls are just more sure of their decisions. i really don't know. Yes they aren't committing in 8th grade like they used to but these girls are committing Sophomore year which is still 3 years before they touch a college campus, which is an eternity for situations and minds to change.

[Relax77]

I am not endorsing or excusing this practice ... BUT:

Some of the best advice we ever got in recruiting was to MOVE ON. These coaches (the good ones) are working a process. If you don't immediately (or ever) hear back from them, you are not a priority or you not on their list any longer because the kids ahead of you accepted. This is classic passive aggressive behavior, but the message is pretty clear. If this is your dream school, keep following up. You may still get the call, but best to pursue other options. And if you do get the call, know that you will be coming in as a #8, #9 or #10 recruit in the eyes of the coaching staff.

I know you don’t mean to, but you actually are excusing it. There is zero excuses or explaination for why they are doing to the Majority of the kids in this process. They are working a process. Yes. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with them not having you a priority or them moving on. It’s the not telling you is the problem. I get the move on advice. But it shouldn’t take three unanswered emails and a month of silence.

Let me give an example of how this would be received. School A is interested in player A. They call player and ask if she is in their top 3. She says yes. School A emails or calls player next day to make an offer. Player doesn’t return call. School A wants player bad. Calls and emails, no player contact. They get player after five days and offers. Reaches out asking player what’s up, she doesn’t return their call. School moves on. Is that fair? Now this would never happen because it’s engrained in the kid to answer a coach and be “transparent.” But if it did What would happen to that player or the club coach? We’ll Maybe the player was “going through her process” or maybe the school wasn’t on her priority list. This scenario is the exact thing that is going on with the majority of coaches to the majority of players. Doesn’t take more than 15 seconds to send a return email saying not now. I don’t care if they are looking at 100 kids. It’s a matter of respect and the coaches have none for the players.

My daughter ended up at a top 20 school and still had this happen to her. So it’s not just for kids that aren’t in a major club or low on the radar. It happens to most of them. And hey. Most girls let it roll right off. Like I said earlier. I know society is soft these days. But it doesn’t make it right. I don’t want to beat a dead horse so I’m not arguing. Just don’t like what they do.

[laxfan9999]

My daughter had two coaches set up calls with my daughter at midnight on Sept 1 for during that day and then never heard from them. They would not have been in the mix as she picked from a group of better schools/teams nut no text or call. One of the two tried to reconnect a week later but it was already too late.

[MolonLaxe]

Can anyone remember when the last commitment "flip" occurred in women's lax? I'm thinking Wurzburger from cuse to unc in 2020 but maybe another low profile flip occurred after that i'm not aware of. I find this interesting. Even with the rule changes, this is still prevalent in the men's game whereas it's been almost eliminated completely in the women's game.

Even thinking back to when these flips were happening, they still didn't really occur that often for women's lax. Is it just harder to flip in the women's game? Are coaches in the women's game less likely to budge once they have their classes set? is it a more complicated process? or maybe girls are just more sure of their decisions. i really don't know. Yes they aren't committing in 8th grade like they used to but these girls are committing Sophomore year which is still 3 years before they touch a college campus, which is an eternity for situations and minds to change.

I think most of the coaches have a "gentleman's agreement" to not poach committed recruits. I think this changes at some point, but most will not engage in discussions with committed players until a player decommits. While this is generally true, there are a few college coaches that don't seem to mind from what I've been told.

Two "flips" come to mind but they aren't that much more recent than what you've shared. Emma Murphy (Skywalkers) was committed to play for Michigan, then flipped to Notre Dame. Sophia Chepenik was committed to Oergon, then flipped to Clemson, has now moved on to USF.

[laxlaxlax]

My daughter had two coaches set up calls with my daughter at midnight on Sept 1 for during that day and then never heard from them. They would not have been in the mix as she picked from a group of better schools/teams nut no text or call. One of the two tried to reconnect a week later but it was already too late.

This is a good point. I would not send any child of mine to any school who calls at midnight. I just think that’s such an overkill. I’m good with text or email no problem but kids that age shouldn’t be expected to jump on a recruiting call at midnight.

I’m sorry your daughter went through that after they scheduled those and bailed. Sounds like she found a great spot though!

[hmmm]

Can anyone remember when the last commitment "flip" occurred in women's lax? I'm thinking Wurzburger from cuse to unc in 2020 but maybe another low profile flip occurred after that i'm not aware of. I find this interesting. Even with the rule changes, this is still prevalent in the men's game whereas it's been almost eliminated completely in the women's game.

Even thinking back to when these flips were happening, they still didn't really occur that often for women's lax. Is it just harder to flip in the women's game? Are coaches in the women's game less likely to budge once they have their classes set? is it a more complicated process? or maybe girls are just more sure of their decisions. i really don't know. Yes they aren't committing in 8th grade like they used to but these girls are committing Sophomore year which is still 3 years before they touch a college campus, which is an eternity for situations and minds to change.

I think most of the coaches have a "gentleman's agreement" to not poach committed recruits. I think this changes at some point, but most will not engage in discussions with committed players until a player decommits. While this is generally true, there are a few college coaches that don't seem to mind from what I've been told.

Two "flips" come to mind but they aren't that much more recent than what you've shared. Emma Murphy (Skywalkers) was committed to play for Michigan, then flipped to Notre Dame. Sophia Chepenik was committed to Oergon, then flipped to Clemson, has now moved on to USF.

Ella Little flipped from Va Tech to UNC. This was also in the 2020 class but much later than CW. Ella played well at the UA Underclass games when Coach Levy was there and flipped the next week. So both of these flips were in the same class to UNC. Ella is now at Clemson however.

[laxfan9999]

They both texted at midnight to set up a call for the next day and then crickets.

[cltlax]

Yes they aren't committing in 8th grade like they used to but these girls are committing Sophomore year which is still 3 years before they touch a college campus, which is an eternity for situations and minds to change.

Actually, the rule now is 9/1 of Junior year, not Sophomore year.

[LaxDadMax]

Can anyone remember when the last commitment "flip" occurred in women's lax? I'm thinking Wurzburger from cuse to unc in 2020 but maybe another low profile flip occurred after that i'm not aware of. I find this interesting. Even with the rule changes, this is still prevalent in the men's game whereas it's been almost eliminated completely in the women's game.

Even thinking back to when these flips were happening, they still didn't really occur that often for women's lax. Is it just harder to flip in the women's game? Are coaches in the women's game less likely to budge once they have their classes set? is it a more complicated process? or maybe girls are just more sure of their decisions. i really don't know. Yes they aren't committing in 8th grade like they used to but these girls are committing Sophomore year which is still 3 years before they touch a college campus, which is an eternity for situations and minds to change.

I can name a couple recent flips from low-level D1 schools to NESCAC schools, but nothing that would get this board excited.

also, those were likely player-driven, not coach driven.

[Kleizaster]

McKenzie Brown to NW. great pick up. Small in size as a defender but packs a punch with her speed and athleticism. Will fit in nicely.

But that's another top MD kid that has spurned the terps. I'm curious as to what MD fans think of this problem because i've been raising the alarm as an outside observer but MD fans have been silent

[Kleizaster]

McKenzie Brown to NW. great pick up. Small in size as a defender but packs a punch with her speed and athleticism. Will fit in nicely.

But that's another top MD kid that has spurned the terps. I'm curious as to what MD fans think of this problem because i've been raising the alarm as an outside observer but MD fans have been silent

because right now Maryland's class is closer to Dartmouth than a championship level program and that's a problem

[ultravisitor]

McKenzie Brown to NW. great pick up. Small in size as a defender but packs a punch with her speed and athleticism. Will fit in nicely.

But that's another top MD kid that has spurned the terps. I'm curious as to what MD fans think of this problem because i've been raising the alarm as an outside observer but MD fans have been silent

because right now Maryland's class is closer to Dartmouth than a championship level program and that's a problem

Interesting that a 5-star defender from McDonogh is committing to the nemesis of Defender U.

[user1020]

The Terps need to have a very good year this year to make them desirable to top recruits. The dynasty and almost certainty to play for a national championship every year has tremendous appeal. With 1 good year since their 2019 championship the appeal has decreased and with a slight increase in parity in women’s lacrosse top recruits are slightly more spread out (or all at UNC). Terps on paper could be good especially with this 5th year class, but last year they could’ve been good as well so I am skeptical. I hope Cathy Reese can inspire this program and lead it back to something great.

[SoCal]

I love to see the growth in this sport and look forward to more programs joining the national contender ranks. Keeps it interesting as a fan and also highlights which coaches are really top shelf.

[ultravisitor]

The Terps need to have a very good year this year to make them desirable to top recruits. The dynasty and almost certainty to play for a national championship every year has tremendous appeal. With 1 good year since their 2019 championship the appeal has decreased and with a slight increase in parity in women’s lacrosse top recruits are slightly more spread out (or all at UNC). Terps on paper could be good especially with this 5th year class, but last year they could’ve been good as well so I am skeptical. I hope Cathy Reese can inspire this program and lead it back to something great.

Last year's team was excellent "on paper," particularly because of the supposedly impenetrable defense, but I think we all know how that turned out. I've said it before, but I'm not sure there's too much reason to be bullish on them because of the 5th years. A lot of those 5th years are part of the offense that hasn't been able to make enough happen.

[LaxGnome22]

My daughter had two coaches set up calls with my daughter at midnight on Sept 1 for during that day and then never heard from them. They would not have been in the mix as she picked from a group of better schools/teams nut no text or call. One of the two tried to reconnect a week later but it was already too late.

This is a good point. I would not send any child of mine to any school who calls at midnight. I just think that’s such an overkill. I’m good with text or email no problem but kids that age shouldn’t be expected to jump on a recruiting call at midnight.

I’m sorry your daughter went through that after they scheduled those and bailed. Sounds like she found a great spot though!

Hilarious is the day after my daughter committed, two coaches who ghosted her throughout the process texted her after noticing she committed. Implied they expected a heads up. I told her only contact the coaches that were contacting you when they said they were. One of them is a little upset. Too bad. Should’ve called when you said you would.

[user1020]

The Terps need to have a very good year this year to make them desirable to top recruits. The dynasty and almost certainty to play for a national championship every year has tremendous appeal. With 1 good year since their 2019 championship the appeal has decreased and with a slight increase in parity in women’s lacrosse top recruits are slightly more spread out (or all at UNC). Terps on paper could be good especially with this 5th year class, but last year they could’ve been good as well so I am skeptical. I hope Cathy Reese can inspire this program and lead it back to something great.

Last year's team was excellent "on paper," particularly because of the supposedly impenetrable defense, but I think we all know how that turned out. I've said it before, but I'm not sure there's too much reason to be bullish on them because of the 5th years. A lot of those 5th years are part of the offense that hasn't been able to make enough happen.

I completely agree. The defense didn’t mesh and play well together at all and I think they may have been because they were trying to fit too many players into a system. Ball is tremendous and Major is a solid player. Couple of other good defenders surrounding them and the defense will be good, not great. Even though their 5th year attackers haven’t been star players, I’d rather have them on my offense than freshmen who have never played together. I think Libby May is very good when she plays her best. Leubecker as well when she’s not injured. Thomas had a breakout year last year. Edmondson was one of the lone bright spots last year. Right now I think they will be good, not great. Ahearn is good on the draw. Once again they have pieces all over the field but depends on if they put them all together, which they did not last year. I’m not sure how well they’ll do but they have potential to go either way.

[ultravisitor]

Even though their 5th year attackers haven’t been star players, I’d rather have them on my offense than freshmen who have never played together.

The problem with that, though, is those freshmen who have never played together will not get good playing time because of the 5th year attackers. Maryland already had good underclassmen last year who didn't get much playing time, and it's looking likely that the upcoming season will be much of the same.

What happens after all those 5th years leave?

It would be one thing to sacrifice the development of the younger team members if they were doing so in favor of keeping around attackers like Izzy Scane for another year, but Maryland doesn't seem have any attackers anywhere near that level.