mdlaxdad wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:21 pm
First off, I want to wish all these gentlemen a safe recovery. Not sure how or why they were put into this situation, but their health should be the most important thing right now, not the fall out for the program. Secondly, what is the point of this exercise? These are division 3 athletes, and while some may join the elite force after college, putting 18-22 year olds through a grueling environment, known for its brutality, is inhumane and disturbing that an adult would think this is ok. I’m sure this alum will receive some backlash, but it was the coach’s decision to invite him and thus his responsibility. Also let’s cut this “voluntary workout” bs, everyone knows that so stop hiding. At the end of the day, this is division 3 not the special forces. Let boys be boys, sure have fall ball and workouts while they enjoy their off-season, but this, I don’t know how to explain it.
Good evening - we are in agreement - My intent was not to diminish the importance of the boys health but to respond pointedly to the prior posters who have diminished the horrific situation that Tufts Men’s Lax team had put their student athletes into. The previous offering using the term “big nothing burger” caught my attention and that was the the goal of the post.
All that being said / those that think this incident will be viewed as a “one time” mistake and wrists slapped are way out of touch with the current reality of schools such as Tufts tolerance for embarrassing events sullying their global brand of academic excellence. I couldn’t agree with you more - these are 19-22 year old students athletes fresh back from summer - these kids are destined for success in their chosen field - which largely won’t be Military or Pro Lax related!
Red,
What happened to the old days of D3? I’m hearing some teams go fully dry for a season. I definitely did not to show up one day to practice and go through a Navy SEAL workout. I understand the desire to win, but I’ve never seen a program like Salisbury do something like this. I can’t say I have ever seen someone score a goal because they can toss a log over their head. Get back to the fundamentals in the fall, start getting in better shape, and build chemistry on and off the field.
mdlaxdad wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:21 pm
First off, I want to wish all these gentlemen a safe recovery. Not sure how or why they were put into this situation, but their health should be the most important thing right now, not the fall out for the program. Secondly, what is the point of this exercise? These are division 3 athletes, and while some may join the elite force after college, putting 18-22 year olds through a grueling environment, known for its brutality, is inhumane and disturbing that an adult would think this is ok. I’m sure this alum will receive some backlash, but it was the coach’s decision to invite him and thus his responsibility. Also let’s cut this “voluntary workout” bs, everyone knows that so stop hiding. At the end of the day, this is division 3 not the special forces. Let boys be boys, sure have fall ball and workouts while they enjoy their off-season, but this, I don’t know how to explain it.
Good evening - we are in agreement - My intent was not to diminish the importance of the boys health but to respond pointedly to the prior posters who have diminished the horrific situation that Tufts Men’s Lax team had put their student athletes into. The previous offering using the term “big nothing burger” caught my attention and that was the the goal of the post.
All that being said / those that think this incident will be viewed as a “one time” mistake and wrists slapped are way out of touch with the current reality of schools such as Tufts tolerance for embarrassing events sullying their global brand of academic excellence. I couldn’t agree with you more - these are 19-22 year old students athletes fresh back from summer - these kids are destined for success in their chosen field - which largely won’t be Military or Pro Lax related!
My son went through this once in HS and once in college. I thought programs had stopped doing this. I feel bad for the kids. I have friends with sons that are Navy SEALs. Probably five. I don't believe the training is necessary for college athletes. Hope all the boys recover.
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
Last edited by The12lov3 on Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mdlaxdad wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:21 pm
First off, I want to wish all these gentlemen a safe recovery. Not sure how or why they were put into this situation, but their health should be the most important thing right now, not the fall out for the program. Secondly, what is the point of this exercise? These are division 3 athletes, and while some may join the elite force after college, putting 18-22 year olds through a grueling environment, known for its brutality, is inhumane and disturbing that an adult would think this is ok. I’m sure this alum will receive some backlash, but it was the coach’s decision to invite him and thus his responsibility. Also let’s cut this “voluntary workout” bs, everyone knows that so stop hiding. At the end of the day, this is division 3 not the special forces. Let boys be boys, sure have fall ball and workouts while they enjoy their off-season, but this, I don’t know how to explain it.
Good evening - we are in agreement - My intent was not to diminish the importance of the boys health but to respond pointedly to the prior posters who have diminished the horrific situation that Tufts Men’s Lax team had put their student athletes into. The previous offering using the term “big nothing burger” caught my attention and that was the the goal of the post.
All that being said / those that think this incident will be viewed as a “one time” mistake and wrists slapped are way out of touch with the current reality of schools such as Tufts tolerance for embarrassing events sullying their global brand of academic excellence. I couldn’t agree with you more - these are 19-22 year old students athletes fresh back from summer - these kids are destined for success in their chosen field - which largely won’t be Military or Pro Lax related!
Red,
What happened to the old days of D3? I’m hearing some teams go fully dry for a season. I definitely did not to show up one day to practice and go through a Navy SEAL workout. I understand the desire to win, but I’ve never seen a program like Salisbury do something like this. I can’t say I have ever seen someone score a goal because they can toss a log over their head. Get back to the fundamentals in the fall, start getting in better shape, and build chemistry on and off the field.
12 young men hospitalized! Crazy situation!
Boston Globe and now ESPN reporting same things !
I respect your closeness to the Nescac in general and Tufts specifically and appreciate the let’s await more facts - but this isn’t Duke situation where the story blew completely out of proportion and was unwound far far to late - I can’t image the aspects of the story that are yet to come will do much to diffuse this situation or paint the program leadership in a positive light!
"Heads" are going to roll because of this and changes are going to be made both Tufts and the NESCAC.
Tufts is the one school in the NESCAC that truly cares and supports athletics across the board. This is a massive black eye for a department that has been very lucky to keep some things under wraps for a few years (not involving the lacrosse program.) For this public black eye to be getting...checks notes... NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION.... someone probably the HC will be removed for lack of control on the program.
Because everyone in this forum understands just how falls in the NESCAC are run.
12 young men hospitalized! Crazy situation!
Boston Globe and now ESPN reporting same things !
I respect your closeness to the Nescac in general and Tufts specifically and appreciate the let’s await more facts - but this isn’t Duke situation where the story blew completely out of proportion and was unwound far far to late - I can’t image the aspects of the story that are yet to come will do much to diffuse this situation or paint the program leadership in a positive light!
Not much to explain here. My inside sources are saying two of the men who are still in hospital are freshmen. Imagine being that parent. You send your kid away for the first time, under the trust that was promised by the coach, and get this call from the school. I’m not sure I could stomach what these parents are going through right now. I hope Coach D’Annolfo sleeps well in his Jordan slippers knowing what he has done to these kids and their families.
Let’s just call a spade a spade. There are probably more tufts lacrosse alums that work at an investment bank/private equity than have completed BUD/S. I understand not wanting to be portrayed as that not being “ blue collar”. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, I’m sure more kids care about that in recruiting than being called soft by outside trolls. No one but the people in the program know the culture. Don’t need to go out and pull this bs to try and prove a point. Hit the wall, come ready for the spring, and be prepared to defend that title.
SneaksBeac wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:55 pm
"Heads" are going to roll because of this and changes are going to be made both Tufts and the NESCAC.
Tufts is the one school in the NESCAC that truly cares and supports athletics across the board. This is a massive black eye for a department that has been very lucky to keep some things under wraps for a few years (not involving the lacrosse program.) For this public black eye to be getting...checks notes... NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION.... someone probably the HC will be removed for lack of control on the program.
Because everyone in this forum understands just how falls in the NESCAC are run.
I’m not sure what that part is suppose to mean (Williams won the Director’s Cup for best overall athletic program in D3 for something like 20 straight years) but certainly agree heads are going to roll. There was only one poster who foolishly tried to minimize this. Everyone else here recognizes this for what it is, which is a disaster and complete failure on the part of the staff and everyone else involved in the program to do the most fundamental part of their job, which is to ensure the safety of the kids entrusted to them. I could speak for quite awhile about rhabdo and it precipitants and presentation but doubt anyone here wants to read that. It is exceedingly unusual to have a mass incidence like this outside of something like a building collapse and crush injuries.
I hope the Tufts players are okay and get released soon. It's shocking that the Tufts coaches are still posting on social media as if nothing's happening. With five kids in the hospital, their focus seems to be on getting clicks—you really can't make this up! As a consequence, they should lock down the social media accounts. If that happens, Casey might even resign.
The Tufts AD could be in serious trouble over this. Someone had to approve the team’s access to the field for those workouts, and that responsibility will likely fall on him. With the national attention this situation is getting and the severity of it, unfortunately, someone—either the coach or the AD—will likely have to take the fall.
“nothing burger”. seems like the only time we hear that term, is when some has done something so bad, they are desperate to distract.
As many have said, i am sure the athletic director and Pres will be involved. i am surprised no one mentioned the NCAA getting involved. i doubt this was “voluntary”. or maybe as “voluntary” as captains practice. this is borderline hazing. and the way sports has cracked down on excessive off season trainings, i would be shocked if there are not penalties for this action.
for one poster to try to brush this off as a nothing burger when several kids are in the hospital is alarming. just shows how out of touch they are with modern day athletics
My first couple of questions would be- were they given advanced warning. Hey, guys we are going to have a special training session next week. If they showed up on a Monday after a weekend and had to do this training that is a problem.
Did the trainer have sub workouts for people who could not complete the assigned training? You are talking about some freshman that have never done this level of training.
What was the workout that got these kids Rhabdo?
Who thought it was a good idea to make these kids do a style of training that 65% of willing participants fail?
For those folks who don’t believe that this is a big deal, if the Rhabdo is bad enough the participant could have kidney damage.
5 days in the hospital is certainly a red flag.
The12lov3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:02 pm
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
I agree, based upon the quotes from the various medical professionals about the rarity of the condition, the number of players affected seems unusually high. I know that people have mentioned that alcohol intake could be a factor, but I am curious as to what other external factors can be considered. I definitely do not have the motivation to do a deep dive on the condition on a Saturday morning, but I suspect that somebody on this forum has a medical background.
The12lov3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:02 pm
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
I agree, based upon the quotes from the various medical professionals about the rarity of the condition, the number of players affected seems unusually high. I know that people have mentioned that alcohol intake could be a factor, but I am curious as to what other external factors can be considered. I definitely do not have the motivation to do a deep dive on the condition on a Saturday morning, but I suspect that somebody on this forum has a medical background.
would not be surprised if those players had taken some substance. this is why the NCAA will be (or already is) investigating this event. i have seen more minor infractions happen that have caused teams to suffer penalties that get in the way of championships.
The12lov3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:02 pm
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
I agree, based upon the quotes from the various medical professionals about the rarity of the condition, the number of players affected seems unusually high. I know that people have mentioned that alcohol intake could be a factor, but I am curious as to what other external factors can be considered. I definitely do not have the motivation to do a deep dive on the condition on a Saturday morning, but I suspect that somebody on this forum has a medical background.
would not be surprised if those players had taken some substance. this is why the NCAA will be (or already is) investigating this event. i have seen more minor infractions happen that have caused teams to suffer penalties that get in the way of championships.
Per inside sources, this event occurred on Monday after a long alumni weekend of boozing and I’m sure other extracurriculars. Coaches probably don’t want to hear this, but again it’s D3. Let these men live their lives as we have now learned the consequences of this type of culture. I’m sure more info will come out, but I can’t see anything that makes this situation any better.
The12lov3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:02 pm
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
I agree, based upon the quotes from the various medical professionals about the rarity of the condition, the number of players affected seems unusually high. I know that people have mentioned that alcohol intake could be a factor, but I am curious as to what other external factors can be considered. I definitely do not have the motivation to do a deep dive on the condition on a Saturday morning, but I suspect that somebody on this forum has a medical background.
would not be surprised if those players had taken some substance. this is why the NCAA will be (or already is) investigating this event. i have seen more minor infractions happen that have caused teams to suffer penalties that get in the way of championships.
Alluded to this last evening. Pray that the players recover and the team is not impacted moving forward...any word on how they are doing?
Asked a Board Certified Cardiologist this morning about this....he suggested based on the numbers they should be testing for 'other' precursors. A quick search.....
A number of recreational drugs commonly abused including benzodiazepines, ecstasy, heroin, ketamine hydrochloride, marijuana, lysergic acid diethylamide, methamphetamine, narcotics, phencyclidine, ethanol and cocaine have been associated with drug-induced acute rhabdomyolysis [10].
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
The12lov3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:02 pm
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
I agree, based upon the quotes from the various medical professionals about the rarity of the condition, the number of players affected seems unusually high. I know that people have mentioned that alcohol intake could be a factor, but I am curious as to what other external factors can be considered. I definitely do not have the motivation to do a deep dive on the condition on a Saturday morning, but I suspect that somebody on this forum has a medical background.
would not be surprised if those players had taken some substance. this is why the NCAA will be (or already is) investigating this event. i have seen more minor infractions happen that have caused teams to suffer penalties that get in the way of championships.
Alluded to this last evening. Pray that the players recover and the team is not impacted moving forward...any word on how they are doing?
Asked a Board Certified Cardiologist this morning about this....he suggested based on the numbers they should be testing for 'other' precursors. A quick search.....
A number of recreational drugs commonly abused including benzodiazepines, ecstasy, heroin, ketamine hydrochloride, marijuana, lysergic acid diethylamide, methamphetamine, narcotics, phencyclidine, ethanol and cocaine have been associated with drug-induced acute rhabdomyolysis [10].
Ok, now it’s getting irresponsible. That is a nonsense list of drugs from some garbage journal (“catatonic states ”) Yes, some drugs and some physiologic states pre-dispose to rhabdo but it is irresponsible to start throwing lists like that out when none of us were there. Even if something else was involved, I highly doubt it was something everyone decided to try for the first time just before a brutal workout, which would imply that they had done it before without this happening, which would confirm, not that it needs confirming, that the primary problem here was the workout.
The12lov3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:02 pm
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
I agree, based upon the quotes from the various medical professionals about the rarity of the condition, the number of players affected seems unusually high. I know that people have mentioned that alcohol intake could be a factor, but I am curious as to what other external factors can be considered. I definitely do not have the motivation to do a deep dive on the condition on a Saturday morning, but I suspect that somebody on this forum has a medical background.
would not be surprised if those players had taken some substance. this is why the NCAA will be (or already is) investigating this event. i have seen more minor infractions happen that have caused teams to suffer penalties that get in the way of championships.
Alluded to this last evening. Pray that the players recover and the team is not impacted moving forward...any word on how they are doing?
Asked a Board Certified Cardiologist this morning about this....he suggested based on the numbers they should be testing for 'other' precursors. A quick search.....
A number of recreational drugs commonly abused including benzodiazepines, ecstasy, heroin, ketamine hydrochloride, marijuana, lysergic acid diethylamide, methamphetamine, narcotics, phencyclidine, ethanol and cocaine have been associated with drug-induced acute rhabdomyolysis [10].
Homecoming is a boozefest from Friday night to Sunday morning at Tufts. Put an intense workout in after that when kids are already dehydrated is a recipe for disaster. They have been doing these type of workouts since the DJ Hessler days and there have never been an issue like this and then suddenly it happens not to one but to 12 kids. Listen i am not condoning what happened and it needs to be evaluated. Somethibg needs to change. The question remains was there any wrongdoing here. Intense workouts does not equate to wrongdoing. As a parent and i have 3 that is the question i would be asking. Seems like the MDs that been interviewed are saying the same thing
As for the culture that they have created - these young men over the years have learned that hard work, dedication, and teamwork pays off. Nothing wrong with that.
The12lov3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:02 pm
While the important thing is the kids health, we should not rush to judgement without having ALL the facts which we dont know. Plenty of teams on all levels do grueling workouts and we dont hear of this and to have 12 players get this rare condition seems odd. Maybe i am wrong but seems like there is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here.
This was a quote from a Boston MD “"It's very unusual to see that many people being hospitalized all at once with this condition, particularly young men who are presumably very physically fit," said Dr. Shruti Gupta of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.
Something smells in Medford
I agree, based upon the quotes from the various medical professionals about the rarity of the condition, the number of players affected seems unusually high. I know that people have mentioned that alcohol intake could be a factor, but I am curious as to what other external factors can be considered. I definitely do not have the motivation to do a deep dive on the condition on a Saturday morning, but I suspect that somebody on this forum has a medical background.
would not be surprised if those players had taken some substance. this is why the NCAA will be (or already is) investigating this event. i have seen more minor infractions happen that have caused teams to suffer penalties that get in the way of championships.
Alluded to this last evening. Pray that the players recover and the team is not impacted moving forward...any word on how they are doing?
Asked a Board Certified Cardiologist this morning about this....he suggested based on the numbers they should be testing for 'other' precursors. A quick search.....
A number of recreational drugs commonly abused including benzodiazepines, ecstasy, heroin, ketamine hydrochloride, marijuana, lysergic acid diethylamide, methamphetamine, narcotics, phencyclidine, ethanol and cocaine have been associated with drug-induced acute rhabdomyolysis [10].
Homecoming is a boozefest from Friday night to Sunday morning at Tufts. Put an intense workout in after that when kids are already dehydrated is a recipe for disaster. They have been doing these type of workouts since the DJ Hessler days and there have never been an issue like this and then suddenly it happens not to one but to 12 kids. Listen i am not condoning what happened and it needs to be evaluated. Somethibg needs to change. The question remains was there any wrongdoing here. Intense workouts does not equate to wrongdoing. As a parent and i have 3 that is the question i would be asking. Seems like the MDs that been interviewed are saying the same thing
As for the culture that they have created - these young men over the years have learned that hard work, dedication, and teamwork pays off. Nothing wrong with that.
A culture where you have an alum force players through a workout past puking and passing out does not sound like one I would send my kid to. There are other ways that plenty of programs display hard work, dedication, and teamwork without these incidents. Hope the players are healthy soon but to say it’s a fluke and sweep it under the rug is part of the problem with student athletes mental health now.
”) Yes, some drugs and some physiologic states pre-dispose to rhabdo but it is irresponsible to start throwing lists like that out when none of us were there. Even if something else was involved, I highly doubt it was something everyone decided to try for the first time just before a brutal workout, which would imply that they had done it before without this happening, which would confirm, not that it needs confirming, that the primary problem here was the workout.