LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Very impressive in HS but extremely underwhelming for several years now at UVA. I am not sure he just isn't too small to consistently succeed at this level. He is quick and shifty but not extraordinarily so. He seems to have put on a little weight so maybe this is his year. Colsey is going to be a star and his brother may well be better.

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 12:36 pm Very impressive in HS but extremely underwhelming for several years now at UVA. I am not sure he just isn't too small to consistently succeed at this level. He is quick and shifty but not extraordinarily so. He seems to have put on a little weight so maybe this is his year. Colsey is going to be a star and his brother may well be better.

A friend spent some time with him and his family a couple of years ago. My friend wondered of he didn’t have the frame to be successful there. You don’t have to big big but you have to do something at an elite level. Gray, Ament, Sowers were not big guys either. That Hackett kid that transferred somewhere isn’t big either but dodges at an elite level. This is a key year for Sunderland

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 12:36 pm Very impressive in HS but extremely underwhelming for several years now at UVA. I am not sure he just isn't too small to consistently succeed at this level. He is quick and shifty but not extraordinarily so. He seems to have put on a little weight so maybe this is his year. Colsey is going to be a star and his brother may well be better.

Lots of success in HS as almost a double holdback. But always dealt with lots of turnovers. Turnovers in college cost you games.

Someone else said it. At his size he needs to have elite quickness and burst. He doesn't.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 2:03 pm

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 12:36 pm Very impressive in HS but extremely underwhelming for several years now at UVA. I am not sure he just isn't too small to consistently succeed at this level. He is quick and shifty but not extraordinarily so. He seems to have put on a little weight so maybe this is his year. Colsey is going to be a star and his brother may well be better.

A friend spent some time with him and his family a couple of years ago. My friend wondered of he didn’t have the frame to be successful there. You don’t have to big big but you have to do something at an elite level. Gray, Ament, Sowers were not big guys either. That Hackett kid that transferred somewhere isn’t big either but dodges at an elite level. This is a key year for Sunderland

didn't have high expectations sunday, but he exceeded them. dodged with confidence, he and millon split dodge runs from behind with others mixed in. he had a big dude on him and didn't get pushed around. with some confidence, quicker than i've seen him.
he wasn't willing to turn the corner, and on wing pick 2 mans to the middle more willing to try to draw a passing lane than take the shot given.
other than that, he dodged head up eyes inside and had 3 or more nice feeds, had an assist and another where colsey was robbed. rode hard, made some nice plays in middle of the field. i can see him as a laviano role, with less finishing and more feeding, but he knows how to play off ball, too.
ceiling might be the syracuse mule, but that's equal or better than say, all but 1 of ross scott's 5 years and he's a good player.
colsey could have a very good year.
hackett didn't see or make a lot of opportunities. part of it was offense not in sync, part maybe he's working his way up.

1766 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 2:47 pm Someone else said it. At his size he needs to have elite quickness and burst. He doesn't.

Honestly you could say the same exact thing about Joey spalina…dude has no athleticism and has 15 pounds of extra cheeseburgers on his waist. Sunderland never really got an opportunity (yet) playing behind 3-4 all time greats at UVa and multiple injuries. He’s shown flashes and he’s got a high game IQ.

I’m looking forward to seeing his game evolve.

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:22 pm

1766 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 2:47 pm Someone else said it. At his size he needs to have elite quickness and burst. He doesn't.

Honestly you could say the same exact thing about Joey spalina…dude has no athleticism and has 15 pounds of extra cheeseburgers on his waist. Sunderland never really got an opportunity (yet) playing behind 3-4 all time greats at UVa and multiple injuries. He’s shown flashes and he’s got a high game IQ.

I’m looking forward to seeing his game evolve.

Reason I think he could be key for UVa is his ability to feed and unselfishness. Lot of scorers on that projected line up, it’s going to need someone to bring them together.

coda wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 7:51 am

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:22 pm

1766 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 2:47 pm Someone else said it. At his size he needs to have elite quickness and burst. He doesn't.

Honestly you could say the same exact thing about Joey spalina…dude has no athleticism and has 15 pounds of extra cheeseburgers on his waist. Sunderland never really got an opportunity (yet) playing behind 3-4 all time greats at UVa and multiple injuries. He’s shown flashes and he’s got a high game IQ.

I’m looking forward to seeing his game evolve.

Reason I think he could be key for UVa is his ability to feed and unselfishness. Lot of scorers on that projected line up, it’s going to need someone to bring them together.

Virginia's offense is going to be a worry until it no longer isn't. The one thing they will have going for them is the Wayer Ghobriel combo on face offs, if healthy. Those 2 are gonna generate a lot of wins and opportunities for that offense. Per prior posts in this thread, that is going to be a big help if you have the ball much of the time

blue angels wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 9:09 am

coda wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 7:51 am

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:22 pm

1766 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 2:47 pm Someone else said it. At his size he needs to have elite quickness and burst. He doesn't.

Honestly you could say the same exact thing about Joey spalina…dude has no athleticism and has 15 pounds of extra cheeseburgers on his waist. Sunderland never really got an opportunity (yet) playing behind 3-4 all time greats at UVa and multiple injuries. He’s shown flashes and he’s got a high game IQ.

I’m looking forward to seeing his game evolve.

Reason I think he could be key for UVa is his ability to feed and unselfishness. Lot of scorers on that projected line up, it’s going to need someone to bring them together.

Virginia's offense is going to be a worry until it no longer isn't. The one thing they will have going for them is the Wayer Ghobriel combo on face offs, if healthy. Those 2 are gonna generate a lot of wins and opportunities for that offense. Per prior posts in this thread, that is going to be a big help if you have the ball much of the time

Wayer is a bad man. I thought he was done. Love his game

Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force. Certain guys just have that intangible "it" that most other players simply don't have. It's a fearlessness, a ferocious drive to push your conditioning to the next level, clear the scrum and get that ground ball. Very few players actually have "it" and he does. He stands out on the field. Players know they're going to get wrecked when he's pushing full speed.

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force.

Virginia's defense had some serious issues off ball and with their slide scheme last year and Wayer was definitely a component of that situation. Hunting doubles and takeaways sometimes took priority over covering the inside or backside. He is an unbelievable take away artist and in transition, but it takes more than that to be a great defender, let alone the best lacrosse player in the country.

BigTom5 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:31 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force.

Virginia's defense had some serious issues off ball and with their slide scheme last year and Wayer was definitely a component of that situation. Hunting doubles and takeaways sometimes took priority over covering the inside or backside. He is an unbelievable take away artist and in transition, but it takes more than that to be a great defender, let alone the best lacrosse player in the country.

You're describing coaching and scheming. That can be altered and adjusted. I'm talking about Wayer as a pure lacrosse player.

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:33 pm

BigTom5 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:31 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force.

Virginia's defense had some serious issues off ball and with their slide scheme last year and Wayer was definitely a component of that situation. Hunting doubles and takeaways sometimes took priority over covering the inside or backside. He is an unbelievable take away artist and in transition, but it takes more than that to be a great defender, let alone the best lacrosse player in the country.

You're describing coaching and scheming. That can be altered and adjusted. I'm talking about Wayer as a player.

As much as Lars loves a good surprise double on a roll back, I highly doubt he's telling Wayer that he has free reign to roam the defensive end while leaving the other 5 players to cover 6. Watch highlights from last year on all the goals they gave up and you'll see it pop up time and again. If NCAA lacrosse was solely 1v1 bravehearts Wayer might be my first pick, but ability to play within a scheme means something.

BigTom5 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:41 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:33 pm

BigTom5 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:31 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force.

Virginia's defense had some serious issues off ball and with their slide scheme last year and Wayer was definitely a component of that situation. Hunting doubles and takeaways sometimes took priority over covering the inside or backside. He is an unbelievable take away artist and in transition, but it takes more than that to be a great defender, let alone the best lacrosse player in the country.

You're describing coaching and scheming. That can be altered and adjusted. I'm talking about Wayer as a player.

As much as Lars loves a good surprise double on a roll back, I highly doubt he's telling Wayer that he has free reign to roam the defensive end while leaving the other 5 players to cover 6. Watch highlights from last year on all the goals they gave up and you'll see it pop up time and again. If NCAA lacrosse was solely 1v1 bravehearts Wayer might be my first pick, but ability to play within a scheme means something.

I am not sure about that sometimes watching UVa. They are always talented, but not always disciplined. They thrive is chaos, where their physical talent can shine. Defensively, they take a lot of chances. When it works, they kill it in uptempo games.

BigTom5 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:41 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:33 pm

BigTom5 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:31 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force.

Virginia's defense had some serious issues off ball and with their slide scheme last year and Wayer was definitely a component of that situation. Hunting doubles and takeaways sometimes took priority over covering the inside or backside. He is an unbelievable take away artist and in transition, but it takes more than that to be a great defender, let alone the best lacrosse player in the country.

You're describing coaching and scheming. That can be altered and adjusted. I'm talking about Wayer as a player.

As much as Lars loves a good surprise double on a roll back, I highly doubt he's telling Wayer that he has free reign to roam the defensive end while leaving the other 5 players to cover 6. Watch highlights from last year on all the goals they gave up and you'll see it pop up time and again. If NCAA lacrosse was solely 1v1 bravehearts Wayer might be my first pick, but ability to play within a scheme means something.

No offense, but tell me you don't know Lars/UVa without telling me you don't know Lars/UVa - that is 100% by design. Lars doesn't care about turnovers and prefers fast-paced chaos even when it causes turnovers or missed assignments. He preaches player freedom, it's literally the UVa mantra. Don't take my word for it, he's said countless times he doesn't care about giving up goals here and there or turnovers. He will not compromise in his philosophical approach to the game. He is the antithesis of John Tillman.I love it. Not only is it attractive to recruits, but also creates entertaining play.

I think Lars has described it best as "expressive" play, he embraces the aggressive, fishing-for-turnovers style akin to the Native American origins of the sport.

And this style of play is why players like Ben Wayer are able to be the absolute demons they are. It's why Wayer led the nation in total GBs,GBs/game and scored 7 goals in transition.

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force. Certain guys just have that intangible "it" that most other players simply don't have. It's a fearlessness, a ferocious drive to push your conditioning to the next level, clear the scrum and get that ground ball. Very few players actually have "it" and he does. He stands out on the field. Players know they're going to get wrecked when he's pushing full speed.

That’s all good. But, when you are 40% in the cage , we have problems. And, can Ghobriel stay heathy? You have to be v good up the middle in today’s game. Salstad is gonzo , they will miss his length. I see this statistically every week in College Lacrosse. Low tier D1 to top 5 , you will struggle. It’s about possessions & the ability at least to hold down the fort 50% of the time.

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't.

You know there is still a Kavanagh playing college lacrosse right?

Radi-skull wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:29 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't.

You know there is still a Kavanagh playing college lacrosse right?

Probably need to put more thought into this, but Kirst is the 1st name the pops into my head for best returning player. Sam King is another, I would have over Kavanaugh. Pilate and Smith come to mind on defense. I am sure I am missing a few names. Too lazy to go through who is back

Mr3Putt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:13 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm Wayer is pound-for-pound the best lacrosse player in the country. I said it. I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't. He's truly a force. Certain guys just have that intangible "it" that most other players simply don't have. It's a fearlessness, a ferocious drive to push your conditioning to the next level, clear the scrum and get that ground ball. Very few players actually have "it" and he does. He stands out on the field. Players know they're going to get wrecked when he's pushing full speed.

That’s all good. But, when you are 40% in the cage , we have problems. And, can Ghobriel stay heathy? You have to be v good up the middle in today’s game. Salstad is gonzo , they will miss his length. I see this statistically every week in College Lacrosse. Low tier D1 to top 5 , you will struggle. It’s about possessions & the ability at least to hold down the fort 50% of the time.

While most of us ignore the unrepentant homers on this site in favor of good open lax discussion, Wayer is certainly one of the top players returning. No idea who is the best one. Neither does anyone else. Who was 40% in cage or is that just 1 game in the tournament? UVA goalies were over 51% for the season. Virginia certainly gambles heavily on defense as a strategy and sometimes it bites them. However, they have been a regular participant in the final 4 and have 2 recent titles so hard to be too critical of Lars.

coda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:41 pm

Radi-skull wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:29 pm

Hooz123 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:18 pm I dare anyone to name a kid more versatile, more alpha and diabolical on the field. You can't.

You know there is still a Kavanagh playing college lacrosse right?

Probably need to put more thought into this, but Kirst is the 1st name the pops into my head for best returning player. Sam King is another, I would have over Kavanaugh. Pilate and Smith come to mind on defense. I am sure I am missing a few names. Too lazy to go through who is back

I was responding to the "more versatile, more alpha" aspect, as well as Pound for Pound. Kirst is a phenomenal shooter and is probably be the Tewaaraton favorite. But I don't think Chris' Alpha can be questioned and his relentlessness on the ride (not as good as Pat though) adds versatility.

And pound for pound, Chris is 5'10 180 vs CJ at 6'2 210 and Wayer at 6'3 215

But it is all subjective and adding in Kirst or anyone else ro the convo helps to rebut Hooz's assertion so I'm good with it.