House v NCAA

[Essexfenwick]

I would still watch UMD basketball if the players all had to be actual students with SAT requirements, no pay and could barely dunk. As long as the other schools they played did the same rules. That product with the school name on the uniform would still be lucrative due to the school loyalty being the main driving force for the dollars. The 5 star players in a minor league separate from the college system would generate zip.

[Farfromgeneva]

Revenue and profits aren’t the same and conflating the two isn’t really useful. And again what if a college sports team had to borrow indoesnwltuntonniikd their stadium and pay for the land on campus?

School loyalty doesn’t make something profitable. Ergo it has to be done for some non economic reason and then the economic argument solely becomes can we afford it and what do we give up in opportunity cost (what could the land and facilities be used for alternatively) for this vs the non economic value it generates.

[Mike75]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I think this is right. There will be few if any scholarships for non-revenue sports. Athletes in those sports will go through the financial aid process like everyone else. Being able to pay and play will become a more important factor in the recruiting process. Which isn't necessarily the end of the world, but parents who put a lot of money into club teams in lax, soccer, hockey and the like expecting a scholarship at the end of the rainbow are going to be very disappointed.

[Chousnake]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

[SCLaxAttack]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I don’t think that will happen, either. 1500-3000 fans at a Big 10 lacrosse game (when they’re playing a good team or their main rival) doesn’t get the sport to profitability. Sports like lacrosse go away or return to pure amateurism.

And I’d be thrilled if the entire traveling club industry went away for sports like lax, hockey, and soccer. Get more visibility/opportunity for kids whose parents can’t afford to travel with their families 15-20 weekends a year and return the focus to high schools.

[wgdsr]

I don’t think that will happen, either. 1500-3000 fans at a Big 10 lacrosse game (when they’re playing a good team or their main rival) doesn’t get the sport to profitability. Sports like lacrosse go away or return to pure amateurism.

And I’d be thrilled if the entire traveling club industry went away for sports like lax, hockey, and soccer. Get more visibility/opportunity for kids whose parents can’t afford to travel with their families 15-20 weekends a year and return the focus to high schools.

the level of play broadly at public schools around the country could be so much higher. it was interrupted. maybe if there is a next cycle and things break that way with this disruption. at the minimum, there'll be loads more folks to teach and coach (and have offspring) who have played than previous generations.

[coda]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I don’t think that will happen, either. 1500-3000 fans at a Big 10 lacrosse game (when they’re playing a good team or their main rival) doesn’t get the sport to profitability. Sports like lacrosse go away or return to pure amateurism.

And I’d be thrilled if the entire traveling club industry went away for sports like lax, hockey, and soccer. Get more visibility/opportunity for kids whose parents can’t afford to travel with their families 15-20 weekends a year and return the focus to high schools.

Ill give a "Hell, Yeah!!!" to the end of the club industry. I do think it can serve a purpose in non-hot bed regions, but overall it is just a tax on parents

The Big 10 issue is bit tougher to decipher. It depends on how they decide to spend their money. Big 10 has the most profitable athletic departments in lacrosse, sans Hopkins. That said Hopkins spends the most on talent acquisition in the Big 10 (if you believe the talk in lax). Not sure if and how much of revenue the Big 10 would funnel to Olympic sports. That may not matter as NIL still exists. It only takes a couple fanatical boosters to make a mark in lacrosse. Corporate NIL is guided by market forces. Booster NIL is nothing but the legalization of the bag game and that is impossible to predict, as it can only be calculated by measuring how batsh!t crazy your boosters are.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I don’t think that will happen, either. 1500-3000 fans at a Big 10 lacrosse game (when they’re playing a good team or their main rival) doesn’t get the sport to profitability. Sports like lacrosse go away or return to pure amateurism.

And I’d be thrilled if the entire traveling club industry went away for sports like lax, hockey, and soccer. Get more visibility/opportunity for kids whose parents can’t afford to travel with their families 15-20 weekends a year and return the focus to high schools.

Ill give a "Hell, Yeah!!!" to the end of the club industry. I do think it can serve a purpose in non-hot bed regions, but overall it is just a tax on parents

The Big 10 issue is bit tougher to decipher. It depends on how they decide to spend their money. Big 10 has the most profitable athletic departments in lacrosse, sans Hopkins. That said Hopkins spends the most on talent acquisition in the Big 10 (if you believe the talk in lax). Not sure if and how much of revenue the Big 10 would funnel to Olympic sports. That may not matter as NIL still exists. It only takes a couple fanatical boosters to make a mark in lacrosse. Corporate NIL is guided by market forces. Booster NIL is nothing but the legalization of the bag game and that is impossible to predict, as it can only be calculated by measuring how batsh!t crazy your boosters are.

Nothing to do with a player monetizing the value of their name, image or likeness. You would not know most of the players if they were standing next to you.

[a fan]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I think you might be missing what's heading our way.

To make the discussion more specific, lets say that Ohio State spends 20% of their athletic budget to pay football players. Now pretend you're the AD...where are you going to cut costs to come up with that money?

BTW, if this stuff winds up anywhere near where some folks think it is? Hopkins is about to have a massive advantage over every other lacrosse program.

And it would be quite ironic if the football money that so many posters are convinced will lead to dominance on the lacrosse field....has the opposite effect, as Football and/or Basketball programs start sucking all the money out of athletic departments.

[wgdsr]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I think you might be missing what's heading our way.

To make the discussion more specific, lets say that Ohio State spends 20% of their athletic budget to pay football players. Now pretend you're the AD...where are you going to cut costs to come up with that money?

BTW, if this stuff winds up anywhere near where some folks think it is? Hopkins is about to have a massive advantage over every other lacrosse program.

And it would be quite ironic if the football money that so many posters are convinced will lead to dominance on the lacrosse field....has the opposite effect, as Football and/or Basketball programs start sucking all the money out of athletic departments.

we're all guessing. maybe they take a slower roll on throwing up new buildings and facilities. hopefully, they locked in low interest rates when they could. tld posted an article that contained (egads!!) cuts in the 40% admin/coach expenses, including that contracts even to some ad's and coaches have already included this eventuality in anticipation.

all could go any kind of way. btw, supposedly, the negotiations on "up to $20 million" could go higher, and are being done not just to avoid future legal challenges, but to hook in congress finally as shields. it's altogether possible congress can't agree on anything, and all of this is pushed out. for now. more nil.

[Essexfenwick]

The Big Ten and SEC states have the majority in Congress (360 electoral votes) so they are going to map out whatever the future is.

[coda]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I think you might be missing what's heading our way.

To make the discussion more specific, lets say that Ohio State spends 20% of their athletic budget to pay football players. Now pretend you're the AD...where are you going to cut costs to come up with that money?

BTW, if this stuff winds up anywhere near where some folks think it is? Hopkins is about to have a massive advantage over every other lacrosse program.

And it would be quite ironic if the football money that so many posters are convinced will lead to dominance on the lacrosse field....has the opposite effect, as Football and/or Basketball programs start sucking all the money out of athletic departments.

Hopkins will not have massive advantage. They dont get Big 10 money. They do have a handful of boosters for NIL, but that has nothing to do with Athletic Department revenue, which they have very little

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/c ... 323355007/

Ohio State’s football program generated more than $127 million in fiscal 2023 with a surplus of $55 million. Men’s basketball had revenues over $24 million with a profit of almost $10 million. Those sports subsidized the rest of OSU’s 34 sports, which had costs exceeding revenues by almost $56 million.

This is at The Ohio State University …..other than 4-5 other schools nobody else is even close.

[Essexfenwick]

Worst case would be back to the old days

Hopkins, UMD, Navy, Uva, (add Georgetown), Cuse, Army, Cornell and the Ivys, I could see Unc and Duke maybe dropping out.

Non Big ten affiliation for Umd and Hopkins for lax.

[a fan]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I think you might be missing what's heading our way.

To make the discussion more specific, lets say that Ohio State spends 20% of their athletic budget to pay football players. Now pretend you're the AD...where are you going to cut costs to come up with that money?

BTW, if this stuff winds up anywhere near where some folks think it is? Hopkins is about to have a massive advantage over every other lacrosse program.

And it would be quite ironic if the football money that so many posters are convinced will lead to dominance on the lacrosse field....has the opposite effect, as Football and/or Basketball programs start sucking all the money out of athletic departments.

Hopkins will not have massive advantage. They dont get Big 10 money. They do have a handful of boosters for NIL, but that has nothing to do with Athletic Department revenue, which they have very little

WGDSR is right, we're all guessing,

But it's the offseason, so let's have some fun guessing, yeah?

What I'm saying is: I believe that Ohio State lacrosse won't get "Big Ten money". The football team will, so that they can pay the kids salaries.

As for Hopkins, remember that the NCAA limits on scholarships just went poof. So the question is: of all the programs in D1, which ones are likely to take advantage of this, and offer more than the 12.5 scholarships now that there are no limits to scholarships?

A conference can come along and enact roster size limits without running afoul of the SCOTUS ruling. But there isn't a lacrosse team anywhere that will only have 12.5 kids on the team, right? So......what does the Hopkins AD do in this environment?

Pretty important question, don't you think?

[a fan]

https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/c ... 323355007/

Ohio State’s football program generated more than $127 million in fiscal 2023 with a surplus of $55 million. Men’s basketball had revenues over $24 million with a profit of almost $10 million. Those sports subsidized the rest of OSU’s 34 sports, which had costs exceeding revenues by almost $56 million.

This is at The Ohio State University …..other than 4-5 other schools nobody else is even close.

Right. So now that both Ohio St. teams need to have paid players and compete with salaries given by other D1 Football and Basketball programs.....does anyone think that Ohio State's lacrosse budget will go UP?

I don't. I think it will go down. Again, we're guessing here.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I think you might be missing what's heading our way.

To make the discussion more specific, lets say that Ohio State spends 20% of their athletic budget to pay football players. Now pretend you're the AD...where are you going to cut costs to come up with that money?

BTW, if this stuff winds up anywhere near where some folks think it is? Hopkins is about to have a massive advantage over every other lacrosse program.

And it would be quite ironic if the football money that so many posters are convinced will lead to dominance on the lacrosse field....has the opposite effect, as Football and/or Basketball programs start sucking all the money out of athletic departments.

Hopkins will not have massive advantage. They dont get Big 10 money. They do have a handful of boosters for NIL, but that has nothing to do with Athletic Department revenue, which they have very little

WGDSR is right, we're all guessing,

But it's the offseason, so let's have some fun guessing, yeah?

What I'm saying is: I believe that Ohio State lacrosse won't get "Big Ten money". The football team will, so that they can pay the kids salaries.

As for Hopkins, remember that the NCAA limits on scholarships just went poof. So the question is: of all the programs in D1, which ones are likely to take advantage of this, and offer more than the 12.5 scholarships now that there are no limits to scholarships?

A conference can come along and enact roster size limits without running afoul of the SCOTUS ruling. But there isn't a lacrosse team anywhere that will only have 12.5 kids on the team, right? So......what does the Hopkins AD do in this environment?

Pretty important question, don't you think?

Where was the ruling that states schools must provide full scholarships? Maybe they go to 20? If you have to eat what you kill, lacrosse may only have 8.

[a fan]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I think you might be missing what's heading our way.

To make the discussion more specific, lets say that Ohio State spends 20% of their athletic budget to pay football players. Now pretend you're the AD...where are you going to cut costs to come up with that money?

BTW, if this stuff winds up anywhere near where some folks think it is? Hopkins is about to have a massive advantage over every other lacrosse program.

And it would be quite ironic if the football money that so many posters are convinced will lead to dominance on the lacrosse field....has the opposite effect, as Football and/or Basketball programs start sucking all the money out of athletic departments.

Hopkins will not have massive advantage. They dont get Big 10 money. They do have a handful of boosters for NIL, but that has nothing to do with Athletic Department revenue, which they have very little

WGDSR is right, we're all guessing,

But it's the offseason, so let's have some fun guessing, yeah?

What I'm saying is: I believe that Ohio State lacrosse won't get "Big Ten money". The football team will, so that they can pay the kids salaries.

As for Hopkins, remember that the NCAA limits on scholarships just went poof. So the question is: of all the programs in D1, which ones are likely to take advantage of this, and offer more than the 12.5 scholarships now that there are no limits to scholarships?

A conference can come along and enact roster size limits without running afoul of the SCOTUS ruling. But there isn't a lacrosse team anywhere that will only have 12.5 kids on the team, right? So......what does the Hopkins AD do in this environment?

Pretty important question, don't you think?

Where was the ruling that states schools must provide full scholarships? Maybe they go to 20? If you have to eat what you kill, lacrosse may only have 8.

Again, the ruling isn't that colleges MUST do things. The ruling is that the NCAA CAN NOT limit compensation, because, in so many words, it violates free market labor principles and laws.

And the aforementioned Ohio State athletic dollars that have to now flow to the Football and Basketball teams will likely (likely) mean that Ohio. St lacrosse won't have 12.5 anymore. They'll likely (likely) have less. Because where is the money to pay players going to come from?

And remember, there are no caps on football scholarships anymore, right? Soooo....how many of you think that big football schools won't make their own choices as to how many full rides to offer?

I know that if I'm a BCS football coach, I'm stockpiling players if I can. And giving out more scholarships than the current limit to pick up kids in the transfer portal.

The money to pay for kids and what I believe will be more football and basketball full rides has to come from somewhere.....

I guess in summary, I'm saying that the odds that the BCS schools' Athletic Departments' various budgets will be unchanged is...... zippo. I see rough waters ahead. And boy, would I love to be proven wrong!

[Typical Lax Dad]

There is no wage scale in athletics departments?

Not one that applies to ALL athletic departments in every University, no. That would be illegal.

Which is why we are here. You can't collude between companies to cap wages. For good reason.

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/201 ... 820500#AAT


The market will settle at something less than every lacrosse player is on a full ride. That would be $4,000,000 a year at least. They are not called non revenue for nothings. Steak dinner.

We're talking past each other.

What you seem to think that I'm saying here is: Colleges MUST pay athletes some fanciful wage. I'm not saying that AT ALL. I'm saying...and so did our Highest Court....that in America, businesses can't collude and conspire to suppress what someone gets for their work. That's it. Nothing more.

All I'm telling you is that SCOTUS told us that the NCAA, or any other entity while we're at it, can't cap an Americans earnings. And for the life of me, I don't get some aren't on board with that.

Do you want to give me the power to cap how much you can earn at work? No, right?

And if we're handing out salary caps? Why didn't we start with coaches and Sports Administrators....their greed is what landed us here in the first place.

SCOTUS ruled on education related benefits and opened the door for expanding compensation. It remains to be seen what form. The market will dictate what gets paid and consultants can help set the market. Does not have to be ADs in a back room.

Yes!. The market will dictate, rather than via collusion between schools. Precisely.

To be clear with my points.....these kids could easily get LESS than they are getting now. IMHO, it's LIKELY many students will get less than they get now. And their team's program might get cut entirely.

Which is why I'm so concerned for lacrosse in particular!

I completely disagree. I think the sport will be fine if lax players don’t get paid to play and receive less. Maybe I’m a dinosaur, but there is no professional future in lacrosse for 99+% of college lacrosse players. The goal is, or should be, the degree and the job prospects. That is why the Ivies still compete. Go to college to be ….a student with a degree from your chosen university. What a concept! Because after those 4-5 years, that and alumni connections are what you’re left with in the real world. If lacrosse shares in the pay to play world, it will create tremendous disparities between the power 5 conference schools and everyone else. So the Big10 and the ACC ( to the extent it survives) schools will have war chests to pay lax players and the rest will likely not. That’s what will kill the sport - greed and more money for some-but not all.

I think you might be missing what's heading our way.

To make the discussion more specific, lets say that Ohio State spends 20% of their athletic budget to pay football players. Now pretend you're the AD...where are you going to cut costs to come up with that money?

BTW, if this stuff winds up anywhere near where some folks think it is? Hopkins is about to have a massive advantage over every other lacrosse program.

And it would be quite ironic if the football money that so many posters are convinced will lead to dominance on the lacrosse field....has the opposite effect, as Football and/or Basketball programs start sucking all the money out of athletic departments.

Hopkins will not have massive advantage. They dont get Big 10 money. They do have a handful of boosters for NIL, but that has nothing to do with Athletic Department revenue, which they have very little

WGDSR is right, we're all guessing,

But it's the offseason, so let's have some fun guessing, yeah?

What I'm saying is: I believe that Ohio State lacrosse won't get "Big Ten money". The football team will, so that they can pay the kids salaries.

As for Hopkins, remember that the NCAA limits on scholarships just went poof. So the question is: of all the programs in D1, which ones are likely to take advantage of this, and offer more than the 12.5 scholarships now that there are no limits to scholarships?

A conference can come along and enact roster size limits without running afoul of the SCOTUS ruling. But there isn't a lacrosse team anywhere that will only have 12.5 kids on the team, right? So......what does the Hopkins AD do in this environment?

Pretty important question, don't you think?

Where was the ruling that states schools must provide full scholarships? Maybe they go to 20? If you have to eat what you kill, lacrosse may only have 8.

Again, the ruling isn't that colleges MUST do things. The ruling is that the NCAA CAN NOT limit compensation, because, in so many words, it violates free market labor principles and laws.

And the aforementioned Ohio State athletic dollars that have to now flow to the Football and Basketball teams will likely (likely) mean that Ohio. St lacrosse won't have 12.5 anymore. They'll likely (likely) have less. Because where is the money to pay players going to come from?

And remember, there are no caps on football scholarships anymore, right? Soooo....how many of you think that big football schools won't make their own choices as to how many full rides to offer?

I know that if I'm a BCS football coach, I'm stockpiling players if I can. And giving out more scholarships than the current limit to pick up kids in the transfer portal.

The money to pay for kids and what I believe will be more football and basketball full rides has to come from somewhere.....

I guess in summary, I'm saying that the odds that the BCS schools' Athletic Departments' various budgets will be unchanged is...... zippo. I see rough waters ahead. And boy, would I love to be proven wrong!

The ruling was regarding education related expenses. Every player on a basketball team has a full ride. Football has 85. First to go will be number 86-110. In the free market, companies are free to set salary limits. I would be very surprised if your competitors (plural) are paying their employees 50% less than what you pay for the same position. Nobody knows what will happen but there will be a top to what a school is willing to pay and the number of positions that are willing to pay for. We will see how it goes. All I know is this, if there is significantly less dollars making its way back to the school, there is no economic incentive to do much of anything. Nobody can be forced to field anything.

[ggait]

The proposed settlement does away with all scholarship limits in all sports. But does impose limits on roster size.

So UVA or Vandy baseball will only be allowed 30 players. But they will be allowed to offer 30 full rides if they want to.