LaxPower Back-Up Stick

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:59 pm I don't have a problem with that, and you know it.

You KNOW what the problem is here. Stop calling other posters TDS'ers. It's not okay for them to stay or golf at Trump properties. Off limits.

You have been ALL OVER US for rank and file Federal Employees following ethical rules when it comes to your Deep State. This is no different.

Be consistent, for heaven's sake.

That is absurd. This sort of thing happens in business, the govt & military ALL the time.
It's a win - win. No harm - no foul. ...fostered by their UK hosts.
Does your conflict of interest concern extend beyond Trump's term in office.
This is silly nit picking & political hype.

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:01 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:37 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:50 pm
You have no idea what myriad factors prompted the crew (or scheduler) to choose Prestwick as their stopover point.

Ohh FFS, that's not the problem, and you know it. The problem is the appearance of a conflict of interest. This is EXACTLY why these soldiers shouldn't be anywhere near a Trump property.

Did these soldiers stay at a Trump property, or not? If the answer yes, then sorry mate, that's a conflict, and isn't ok.

You say that they went there all the time before Trump arrived? Fantastic news. That means there's a myriad of places to stay that aren't owned by Trump. Send them there. Problem solved. Everyone's happy. Well, except Trump.

According to one of the articles I read, at least on one trip a pair of personnel drove some distance to Turnberry from the airport to stay the night. It was the fact that one of them actually shared details on social media to friends that a reporter knew to look. The question is if this is a more widespread practice...

Good grief. Read my subsequent post. Scottish officials were trying to bring business to keep Prestwick viable.
It become UK tabloid fodder when a hook to Trump emerged.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:52 pm

He really can't help himself, can he?

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:05 pm That is absurd. This sort of thing happens in business, the govt & military ALL the time.

Happens all the time? Great. I'll even make it easy for you. Here's a list of the last five Presidents. Name which hotels and golf courses owned by each President that US Military personnel stayed at....while traveling between the lower 48, and US deployments overseas.

1. Obama
2. Bush
3. Clinton
4. Bush
5. Reagan


Take your time. Name the hotel/golf properties in question. Because I know it's going to be a looong list of hotel properties owned by sitting Presidents because, as you say, this happens all the time.

And to answer your silly question? You're go**amn right this conflict of interest extends beyond Trump's term in office.

The US Treasury isn't a freaking toy for Trump to play with, despite your weak protestations to the contrary.

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:33 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:05 pm That is absurd. This sort of thing happens in business, the govt & military ALL the time.

Happens all the time? Great. I'll even make it easy for you. Here's a list of the last five Presidents. Name which hotels and golf courses owned by each President that US Military personnel stayed at....while traveling between the lower 48, and US deployments overseas.

1. Obama
2. Bush
3. Clinton
4. Bush
5. Reagan


Take your time. Name the hotel/golf properties in question. Because I know it's going to be a looong list of hotel properties owned by sitting Presidents because, as you say, this happens all the time.

And to answer your silly question? You're go**amn right this conflict of interest extends beyond Trump's term in office.

The US Treasury isn't a freaking toy for Trump to play with, despite your weak protestations to the contrary.

I saw OS for what he is 2 years ago. Lost credibility a looooongggg time ago.

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:33 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:05 pm That is absurd. This sort of thing happens in business, the govt & military ALL the time.

Happens all the time? Great. I'll even make it easy for you. Here's a list of the last five Presidents. Name which hotels and golf courses owned by each President that US Military personnel stayed at....while traveling between the lower 48, and US deployments overseas.

1. Obama
2. Bush
3. Clinton
4. Bush
5. Reagan

Take your time. Name the hotel/golf properties in question. Because I know it's going to be a looong list of hotel properties owned by sitting Presidents because, as you say, this happens all the time.

And to answer your silly question? You're go**amn right this conflict of interest extends beyond Trump's term in office.

The US Treasury isn't a freaking toy for Trump to play with, despite your weak protestations to the contrary.

So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

I thought you cared about our troops. LandM can vouch for how critical golf courses are in USAF planning.

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 pm So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

Nope. Not "like" Turnberry. ONLY Turnberry & Aberdeen. They can play anywhere else to their heart's content.

But you know this, and are just messing around. I'm not buying your phony position. You don't believe a word you're typing.

We have at least 1 1/2 years more of this nonsense from you....

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 pm
So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

I thought you cared about our troops. LandM can vouch for how critical golf courses are in USAF planning.

Remember in college when you showed up at a 5 star restaurant with only $10 in your pocket?

Humiliating, right?

So these air crews have a modest per diem and get loaded into a van and sent to a golf resort for their layover while their aircraft are refueled. They can't afford a 'nice' dinner, let alone some bar food with a beer.

So our hardworking aircrewmen with credit cards had to dip deep into their credit line and those without went hungry.

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:28 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 pm
So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

I thought you cared about our troops. LandM can vouch for how critical golf courses are in USAF planning.

Remember in college when you showed up at a 5 star restaurant with only $10 in your pocket?

Humiliating, right?

So these air crews have a modest per diem and get loaded into a van and sent to a golf resort for their layover while their aircraft are refueled. They can't afford a 'nice' dinner, let alone some bar food with a beer.

So our hardworking aircrewmen with credit cards had to dip deep into their credit line and those without went hungry.

And while doing so, bypassing a nearby Travelodge (generally affordable chain in UK) and a bunch of other hotels in Ayr that were closer. That one trip does look bad when it can be easy to read into the choice as one to "advantage" our current President.

It is not just this one trip - it is the general pattern of using the government money to help stem the losses in a money-losing concern owned by the OD. The fact that Trump when travelling overseas goes out of his way to stay at "his" properties to feed all that money into them. The fact that corporations with government concerns find a way to stay a lot of times at the Trump hotel in Washington (like the guy looking for Federal approval for his phone company merger). Or the great number of foreigners staying at said hotel.

The level of corruption here is staggering. But the R side of politics is giving a pass to Trump by looking the other way or essentially arguing "squirrel" to try and get everyone else to look away.

Salty knows this is wrong but just loves his hero o d so much, and he never will answer my simple question.

So why not be transparent and show that this is in fact something that has been going on for decades?

“The Defense Department has not produced a single document in this investigation,” said a senior Democratic aide on the oversight panel. “The committee will be forced to consider alternative steps if the Pentagon does not begin complying voluntarily in the coming days.”

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:25 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 pm So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

Nope. Not "like" Turnberry. ONLY Turnberry & Aberdeen. They can play anywhere else to their heart's content.

But you know this, and are just messing around. I'm not buying your phony position. You don't believe a word you're typing.

We have at least 1 1/2 years more of this nonsense from you....

Royal Troon is closer to Prestwick. Jeez.....

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:38 pm Don't worry... ... there will always be brave men and women out there willing to give their lives for... individuals such as yourself.

Cradle, focus on the topic discussed, not the people discussing it.

admin wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:01 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:38 pm Don't worry... ... there will always be brave men and women out there willing to give their lives for... individuals such as yourself.

Cradle, focus on the topic discussed, not the people discussing it.

Cradle is fine.....Been called much much worse. High entertainment value for me.

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:28 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 pm
So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

I thought you cared about our troops. LandM can vouch for how critical golf courses are in USAF planning.

Remember in college when you showed up at a 5 star restaurant with only $10 in your pocket?

Humiliating, right?

So these air crews have a modest per diem and get loaded into a van and sent to a golf resort for their layover while their aircraft are refueled. They can't afford a 'nice' dinner, let alone some bar food with a beer.

So our hardworking aircrewmen with credit cards had to dip deep into their credit line and those without went hungry.

.. ...are you saying the aircrews are ordered to stay at Turnberry ? Usually the aircrew's chooses where to stay from the available options.

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:25 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 pm So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

Nope. Not "like" Turnberry. ONLY Turnberry & Aberdeen. They can play anywhere else to their heart's content.

But you know this, and are just messing around. I'm not buying your phony position. You don't believe a word you're typing.

We have at least 1 1/2 years more of this nonsense from you....

Royal Troon is closer to Prestwick. Jeez.....

According to that Guardian article I linked, Prestwick offered the opportunity to play for FREE at Turnberry, as an inducement to stopover & buy fuel there. Do they offer that same inducement for the other courses ?

CU88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:17 pm Salty knows this is wrong but just loves his hero o d so much, and he never will answer my simple question.

So why not be transparent and show that this is in fact something that has been going on for decades?

“The Defense Department has not produced a single document in this investigation,” said a senior Democratic aide on the oversight panel. “The committee will be forced to consider alternative steps if the Pentagon does not begin complying voluntarily in the coming days.”

Because it's BS harassment by the House Oversight Comm. All they had to do was ask a USAF OLA staffer, or use google, to read the statement by a USAF spokesman which I quoted from the Guardian article which confirmed what I told you -- the USAF is shifting their UK stopover point to Prestwick more often because they are drawing down our forces at RAF Mildenhall in advance of it's closure. This is a Trumped up controversy.

You don't even read the articles you link in your posts. If you' had bothered to read Nasty Natasha's POLITICO article in your first post on this silly flap, you'd have read this response :

Following publication of this story, the Air Force said in a statement Saturday that the C-17 stopover was “not unusual” but acknowledged the service is still investigating the Air Force operations and spending in Scotland.

“Every two and half minutes an Air Force transport aircraft takes off or lands somewhere around the globe. As our aircrews serve on these international airlift missions, they follow strict guidelines on contracting for hotel accommodations and all expenditures of taxpayer dollars,” Brig. Gen. Ed Thomas said in the statement. “In this case, they made reservations through the Defense Travel System and used the closest available and least expensive accommodations to the airfield within the crews’ allowable hotel rates. While we are still reviewing the trip records, we have found nothing that falls outside the guidelines associated with selecting stopover airports on travel routes and hotel accommodations for crew rest.”

The Air Force confirmed that seven crew members stayed at Turnberry en route to Kuwait, but said “it did not appear” that they stayed at the hotel on the way back. There are more than two dozen hotels in and around Prestwick, but the Air Force said Trump Turnberry was the cheapest option available at the time and below the per diem allowance. POLITICO could not independently verify the room rates cited by the Air Force.

The Pentagon has yet to respond publicly to the broader questions posed by the House oversight panel in its detailed letter to then-Acting Defense Secretary Pat Shanahan in June. A spokesman told POLITICO Saturday that it will take some time to respond to the broader allegations.

Nasty Natasha? How is she nasty? Inquiring minds, likely to have a hashtag moment, would like to know! And by inquiring minds if you have any detail, let me know.

https://www.wikifeet.com/Natasha_Bertrand



I can't imagine your writing that without trying to troll people. Terms the president use are incongruous with his tough talk, which we all know is a facade and he's a cat-like metaphor in reality. Just like the Gov here in GA posing with and doing commercials about guns and immigrant buses. He's full of it and wouldn't handle anything tough. All talk, no substance.

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:13 am

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:25 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 pm So you want to deny our hardworking aircrews the opportunity to play a course like Turnberry, in their off duty time, during a mandatory crew rest layover in Scotland, just because Nasty Natasha Bertrand selectively omits critical facts & spins it as a conflict of interest. You're so gullible.

Nope. Not "like" Turnberry. ONLY Turnberry & Aberdeen. They can play anywhere else to their heart's content.

But you know this, and are just messing around. I'm not buying your phony position. You don't believe a word you're typing.

We have at least 1 1/2 years more of this nonsense from you....

Royal Troon is closer to Prestwick. Jeez.....

According to that Guardian article I linked, Prestwick offered the opportunity to play for FREE at Turnberry, as an inducement to stopover & buy fuel there. Do they offer that same inducement for the other courses ?

Good question.
Do they "offer that same inducement for the other courses"?
Who pays? And why?
Did this 'stop' cost the military more than another location would have?

This is the problem we have with this President.
There simply can't be the benefit of the doubt for someone known to constantly lie and to demand or expect that others do so for him as well. Nor for someone known to be focused on his personal interests at all times, including his financial interests. Someone who promises to disassociate himself with his businesses, yet is acutely aware of how they are performing, spends OPM at his properties like a drunken sailor. Someone who promises to provide his tax returns then refuses. someone who promises to Drain the Swamp, but is the epitome of the swamp himself, much less those he appoints to run various agencies.

He's corrupt and we all know it.
Some of us are unwilling to admit it out loud, but we all know it.

So, in a situation like this, it's another huge red flag that Executive Branch officials are refusing to produce records, refusing to appear to answer questions from the body the Constitution gives oversight powers of the Executive Branch.

We know why they won't.

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:25 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:17 pm Salty knows this is wrong but just loves his hero o d so much, and he never will answer my simple question.

So why not be transparent and show that this is in fact something that has been going on for decades?

“The Defense Department has not produced a single document in this investigation,” said a senior Democratic aide on the oversight panel. “The committee will be forced to consider alternative steps if the Pentagon does not begin complying voluntarily in the coming days.”

Because it's BS harassment by the House Oversight Comm. All they had to do was ask a USAF OLA staffer, or use google, to read the statement by a USAF spokesman which I quoted from the Guardian article which confirmed what I told you -- the USAF is shifting their UK stopover point to Prestwick more often because they are drawing down our forces at RAF Mildenhall in advance of it's closure. This is a Trumped up controversy.

You don't even read the articles you link in your posts. If you' had bothered to read Nasty Natasha's POLITICO article in your first post on this silly flap, you'd have read this response :

Following publication of this story, the Air Force said in a statement Saturday that the C-17 stopover was “not unusual” but acknowledged the service is still investigating the Air Force operations and spending in Scotland.

“Every two and half minutes an Air Force transport aircraft takes off or lands somewhere around the globe. As our aircrews serve on these international airlift missions, they follow strict guidelines on contracting for hotel accommodations and all expenditures of taxpayer dollars,” Brig. Gen. Ed Thomas said in the statement. “In this case, they made reservations through the Defense Travel System and used the closest available and least expensive accommodations to the airfield within the crews’ allowable hotel rates. While we are still reviewing the trip records, we have found nothing that falls outside the guidelines associated with selecting stopover airports on travel routes and hotel accommodations for crew rest.”

The Air Force confirmed that seven crew members stayed at Turnberry en route to Kuwait, but said “it did not appear” that they stayed at the hotel on the way back. There are more than two dozen hotels in and around Prestwick, but the Air Force said Trump Turnberry was the cheapest option available at the time and below the per diem allowance. POLITICO could not independently verify the room rates cited by the Air Force.

The Pentagon has yet to respond publicly to the broader questions posed by the House oversight panel in its detailed letter to then-Acting Defense Secretary Pat Shanahan in June. A spokesman told POLITICO Saturday that it will take some time to respond to the broader allegations.

No mention in that article of military personnel having no other option but to kick up to Trump because there are no other accommodations. I may have missed it.

Trump Turnberry is quite a bit further than Troon, Ayr (which are quite close) and Kilmarnock (where there are multiple hotels as it is quite a bit larger). They are stretching quite a bit here...