Trump's Russian Collusion

[jhu72]

More bad news for Trump - ABC News has found a recording from 2018 with Lev Parnas at a dinner including the President...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recordi ... d=68506437

A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.

The recording appears to contradict statements by President Trump and support the narrative that has been offered by Parnas during broadcast interviews in recent days. Sources familiar with the recording said the recording was made during an intimate April 30, 2018, dinner at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.

Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas, a Soviet-born American who has emerged as a wild card in Trump’s impeachment trial, especially in the days since Trump was impeached.

"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be President Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it."

On the recording, it appears the two Giuliani associates are telling President Trump that the U.S. ambassador has been bad-mouthing him, which leads directly to the apparent remarks by the President. The recording was made by Fruman, according to sources familiar with the tape. The White House did not respond to an ABC News request for comment.

More drip drip. This is why I don't understand the perspective of the majority of republican senators stone walling for the POS. The truth is going to come out over the next 6 months (and beyond) and none of it is likely to be good for Orange Duce or his enablers.

[holmes435]

Does Sun Tzu say NATO membership for Ukraine is in America's best interest ? What say you ?

I looked all over but I couldn't find Ukraine or NATO anywhere in any of his writings.

[foreverlax]

Doubt it. History doesn't count for politicians. It is all about the next election (or the politician's perspective of that election). Separate events. Every one of the republicans know what Trump did was wrong, anti-American, unconstitutional. Now what will concern them is their potential legacies. But that is still held in balance with the next election. Their votes will be conditioned by only these factors.

I'm less interested in what are they going to do and who is going to win. I'm more interested in why is this (awfulness) happening?

I thought I addressed that but can certainly expand on it. These politicians aren't thinking about Clinton even a little. It is not some get even in their minds. I don't think the people who elected them are making their minds up based on a Clinton get even. Perhaps the Clinton result, the majority of the country not thinking he should be impeached because of something flowing out of a personal relationship convinced some republicans that they would not worry about Trump's peccadillo's, but this is not a Trump peccadillo. So basically I don't see any relationship between Clinton results and the current impeachment situation.

Trump and Petey Brown seem to be the only ones talking about HRC.

[jhu72]

Doubt it. History doesn't count for politicians. It is all about the next election (or the politician's perspective of that election). Separate events. Every one of the republicans know what Trump did was wrong, anti-American, unconstitutional. Now what will concern them is their potential legacies. But that is still held in balance with the next election. Their votes will be conditioned by only these factors.

I'm less interested in what are they going to do and who is going to win. I'm more interested in why is this (awfulness) happening?

I thought I addressed that but can certainly expand on it. These politicians aren't thinking about Clinton even a little. It is not some get even in their minds. I don't think the people who elected them are making their minds up based on a Clinton get even. Perhaps the Clinton result, the majority of the country not thinking he should be impeached because of something flowing out of a personal relationship convinced some republicans that they would not worry about Trump's peccadillo's, but this is not a Trump peccadillo. So basically I don't see any relationship between Clinton results and the current impeachment situation.

Trump and Petey Brown seem to be the only ones talking about HRC.

Different Clinton in this case.

[Matnum PI]

The politicians follow the people. The representatives let Clinton off the hook because the people of the US felt he should be left off the hook. If the people of the US had said, "Lying under oath *is* a big deal. Bill should be removed from his position as POTUS.", I think we'd have a very different situation right now. Gore being made president, etc. aside and all that would've followed suit after this, I think the jump from the norm to Clinton to Trump is more do-able for the american mind than the norm to Trump.

[foreverlax]

Doubt it. History doesn't count for politicians. It is all about the next election (or the politician's perspective of that election). Separate events. Every one of the republicans know what Trump did was wrong, anti-American, unconstitutional. Now what will concern them is their potential legacies. But that is still held in balance with the next election. Their votes will be conditioned by only these factors.

I'm less interested in what are they going to do and who is going to win. I'm more interested in why is this (awfulness) happening?

I thought I addressed that but can certainly expand on it. These politicians aren't thinking about Clinton even a little. It is not some get even in their minds. I don't think the people who elected them are making their minds up based on a Clinton get even. Perhaps the Clinton result, the majority of the country not thinking he should be impeached because of something flowing out of a personal relationship convinced some republicans that they would not worry about Trump's peccadillo's, but this is not a Trump peccadillo. So basically I don't see any relationship between Clinton results and the current impeachment situation.

Trump and Petey Brown seem to be the only ones talking about HRC.

Different Clinton in this case.

Chuckle...

[Kismet]

The Dems 47 votes representing 15 million more Americans than the 53 Rs to hear witnesses and see the documents created by our public employees while we paid them. I’ll bet their testimony won’t be boring.

80% of Americans want witnesses and documents. Monmouth poll.

Republicans aren’t really going to argue, that even if he did it, and he did, that it’s okay to push Putin’s propaganda, to serve Putin’s needs, are they? If they factually contest this charge, we’re gonna need documents and witnesses.

Except their Senate elections are tied to how many voters in their states they represent - I don't think there will be enough voter anger in enough of these swing state to flip the Senate - Dems need to be net +4 to take control and they are likely to lose Alabama as long as Roy Moore is not the GOP nominee - so then its +5 - while they may look good in AZ, CO and ME they are going to need 2 more from GA (2), IA, NC or KS. Do not think they can beat Moscow Mitch in KY but they may have a shot at Graham in SC if their base turns out big

[CU88]

More bad news for Trump - ABC News has found a recording from 2018 with Lev Parnas at a dinner including the President...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recordi ... d=68506437

A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.

The recording appears to contradict statements by President Trump and support the narrative that has been offered by Parnas during broadcast interviews in recent days. Sources familiar with the recording said the recording was made during an intimate April 30, 2018, dinner at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.

Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas, a Soviet-born American who has emerged as a wild card in Trump’s impeachment trial, especially in the days since Trump was impeached.

"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be President Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it."

On the recording, it appears the two Giuliani associates are telling President Trump that the U.S. ambassador has been bad-mouthing him, which leads directly to the apparent remarks by the President. The recording was made by Fruman, according to sources familiar with the tape. The White House did not respond to an ABC News request for comment.

More drip drip. This is why I don't understand the perspective of the majority of republican senators stone walling for the POS. The truth is going to come out over the next 6 months (and beyond) and none of it is likely to be good for Orange Duce or his enablers.

I assume that more will come out prior to the Election?

The story says this recording of Trump & Lev Parnas (who he’s repeatedly said he doesn’t know) talking about taking out Yovanovitch was made by Igor Fruman. Unless it was somehow in Parnas’ cache of materials, this could imply Fruman is also cooperating.

[jhu72]

The politicians follow the people. The representatives let Clinton off the hook because the people of the US felt he should be left off the hook. If the people of the US had said, "Lying under oath *is* a big deal. Bill should be removed from his position as POTUS.", I think we'd have a very different situation right now. Gore being made president, etc. aside and all that would've followed suit after this, I think the jump from the norm to Clinton to Trump is more do-able for the american mind than the norm to Trump.

Certainly history would be different, perhaps it would change the perspective on Trump's impeachment, more likely the existence of a Trump presidency, although not guaranteed. There is a great deal of space between the two sides at this time, and personally think the Clintons don't even begin to explain a small number of those differences, and can't personally draw a line between that impeachment and this. Could it be? Sure, but don't see it by any analysis I am capable of.

[jhu72]

More bad news for Trump - ABC News has found a recording from 2018 with Lev Parnas at a dinner including the President...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recordi ... d=68506437

A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.

The recording appears to contradict statements by President Trump and support the narrative that has been offered by Parnas during broadcast interviews in recent days. Sources familiar with the recording said the recording was made during an intimate April 30, 2018, dinner at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.

Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas, a Soviet-born American who has emerged as a wild card in Trump’s impeachment trial, especially in the days since Trump was impeached.

"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be President Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it."

On the recording, it appears the two Giuliani associates are telling President Trump that the U.S. ambassador has been bad-mouthing him, which leads directly to the apparent remarks by the President. The recording was made by Fruman, according to sources familiar with the tape. The White House did not respond to an ABC News request for comment.

More drip drip. This is why I don't understand the perspective of the majority of republican senators stone walling for the POS. The truth is going to come out over the next 6 months (and beyond) and none of it is likely to be good for Orange Duce or his enablers.

I assume that more will come out prior to the Election? --- absolutely, bet on it!

The story says this recording of Trump & Lev Parnas (who he’s repeatedly said he doesn’t know) talking about taking out Yovanovitch was made by Igor Fruman. Unless it was somehow in Parnas’ cache of materials, this could imply Fruman is also cooperating.

[DocBarrister]

The Dems 47 votes representing 15 million more Americans than the 53 Rs to hear witnesses and see the documents created by our public employees while we paid them. I’ll bet their testimony won’t be boring.

80% of Americans want witnesses and documents. Monmouth poll.

Republicans aren’t really going to argue, that even if he did it, and he did, that it’s okay to push Putin’s propaganda, to serve Putin’s needs, are they? If they factually contest this charge, we’re gonna need documents and witnesses.

Except their Senate elections are tied to how many voters in their states they represent - I don't think there will be enough voter anger in enough of these swing state to flip the Senate - Dems need to be net +4 to take control and they are likely to lose Alabama as long as Roy Moore is not the GOP nominee - so then its +5 - while they may look good in AZ, CO and ME they are going to need 2 more from GA (2), IA, NC or KS. Do not think they can beat Moscow Mitch in KY but they may have a shot at Graham in SC if their base turns out big

Good analysis. Dems will need +4 (flipped GOP seats) if they win the White House and Jones loses the Alabama seat. There will be 5 to 9 GOP seats in play by November, depending on how the political winds blow. A +4 will be challenging, but still quite doable.

DocBarrister

[jhu72]

Nancy Cordes (a CBS reporter) has learned that a Trump confidante reportedly told Republican Senators that “a vote against the president and your head will be on a pike.” Not much meat on these bones (yet), but I want to see a show of hands of those who believe this story is Fake News.

[calourie]

The Dems 47 votes representing 15 million more Americans than the 53 Rs to hear witnesses and see the documents created by our public employees while we paid them. I’ll bet their testimony won’t be boring.

80% of Americans want witnesses and documents. Monmouth poll.

Republicans aren’t really going to argue, that even if he did it, and he did, that it’s okay to push Putin’s propaganda, to serve Putin’s needs, are they? If they factually contest this charge, we’re gonna need documents and witnesses.

Except their Senate elections are tied to how many voters in their states they represent - I don't think there will be enough voter anger in enough of these swing state to flip the Senate - Dems need to be net +4 to take control and they are likely to lose Alabama as long as Roy Moore is not the GOP nominee - so then its +5 - while they may look good in AZ, CO and ME they are going to need 2 more from GA (2), IA, NC or KS. Do not think they can beat Moscow Mitch in KY but they may have a shot at Graham in SC if their base turns out big

Given the almost 100% consensus among those paying attention that the impeachment trial will not result in Trump being removed from office, the real impact of the whole endeavor will be played out in the ballot box in November. To my thinking the dems have played their hand reasonably effectively given the current state of partisan intransigence, which is to say that ( barring some rabbit out of the hat presentation by Trumps trial defenders) Trump will be left with his base and little or no new support, whereas some still on the fencers of whom there are few may slide over into either the I'm not going to hold my nose again while voting, or the guy is dishonest enough to motivate me to even bother to vote this time. Whether this translates down ballot and applies to the voters in Maine, Arizona, Colorado, Iowa (and wherever else things are close enough to make a difference) voicing their senate preferences remains to be seen, but I think at least this trial will have created the possibility for that to happen, regardless of whether further witnesses are called or not.

[ggait]

"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be President Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it."

On the recording, it appears the two Giuliani associates are telling President Trump that the U.S. ambassador has been bad-mouthing him, which leads directly to the apparent remarks by the President. The recording was made by Fruman, according to sources familiar with the tape. The White House did not respond to an ABC News request for comment.

Just shows how preposterous the claim is that Trump (of all people) was trying to actually fight corruption. So in order to accomplish that holy crusade for cleanliness, the team he picks is Manafort, Gates, Lev, Igor and Rudy. Because people like Fiona Hill, Bill Taylor and Yovanovitch are all dirty.

[jhu72]

"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be President Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it."

On the recording, it appears the two Giuliani associates are telling President Trump that the U.S. ambassador has been bad-mouthing him, which leads directly to the apparent remarks by the President. The recording was made by Fruman, according to sources familiar with the tape. The White House did not respond to an ABC News request for comment.

Just shows how preposterous the claim is that Trump (of all people) was trying to actually fight corruption. So in order to accomplish that holy crusade for cleanliness, the team he picks is Manafort, Gates, Lev, Igor and Rudy....

… first rate crime fighters, everyone a Batman or Superman in his own right. The Trump Justice League of America.

[ggait]

Good analysis. Dems will need +4 (flipped GOP seats) if they win the White House and Jones loses the Alabama seat. There will be 5 to 9 GOP seats in play by November, depending on how the political winds blow. A +4 will be challenging, but still quite doable.

FYI, Dems only need +3 if Trump loses (which is more likely than not). VP Klobuchar casts the tie breaking vote.

Gardner/CO is toast. +1.

In a very good 2020 election, Dems could pick up Collins/ME, McSalley/AZ. That's +3 50.

Jones/GA is toast unless that election turns into a shirt show with Sessions and Roy Moore. +2, 49.

Which means #50 has to come from NC, KS, GA, IA or KY.

Not gonna happen unless 2020 is an uber-tsunami for the Dems.

[njbill]

Rumor: Trump wants to hire Schiff for his defense team.

[jhu72]

Rumor: Trump wants to hire Schiff for his defense team.

[Trinity]

Standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the Russian mob isn’t working?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the Russian mob isn’t working?

I want to see witnesses and documentary evidence. Enough of it could be exculpatory. Afterwards, the Senate can acquit Trump.