LaxPower Back-Up Stick

faircornell wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:17 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:01 pm

pcowlax wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:48 pm Are there any schools where the players are allowed back on campus and the rest of the student body is not?

are there any schools in the ivy who didn't allow students on campus?
cornell did. penn and brown look like they had students back. didn't check others.
why couldn't cornell, penn and brown play?

Many Cornell players took the semester off when it looked like no games were coming. I don't know how many are on campus. Also, Cornell's Covid policy is still extremely strict. Given these two issues, I'd assume that a Cornell game is unlikely.

Correct.
Most, if not all, Ivies had modified amounts of students on campus. In Dartmouth's case, they rotated classes off campus for various terms to reduce density. The even more relevant issue was that the Ivies each had rules for those students which they applied universally and equally across activities. Sports didn't get an exception.

I don't know any poster who didn't wish the Ivies had made an exception for sports and enabled the athletes to play. Some of us simply didn't expect it from day one, and some athletes recognized this likelihood and chose to postpone their schooling. Others sucked it up and will move on in life and careers, others sucked it up and may play a grad year or two.

Last, the stuff about parental financial contributions is, from a practical perspective, almost silly. It's rare that non alum parental contributions, from all years not just current parents, exceeds 5% of all giving...closer to 1%. Every once in a rare while a super rich parent will donate something to improve their son or daughter's experience, but that's super rare.

Alumni are who give. Now, will this experience damage alumni giving at the Ivies? At least at my school, no. But maybe it will for these classes downstream...possible.

Now, Yale has a particularly generous donor who might be peeved, but I dunno, I bet he keeps supporting the program...that said, he's already endowed it handsomely.

Nice article in Penn.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ture/57772

Is the season over in the IVY League?. Saw that Penn, Dartmouth, and Brown all had a game last weekend and Dartmouth had a second game this week against St Anselms. I know that the coaches have been reaching out but with all the increased vaccinations and CDC lifting of mask wearing for outside activities, one would think someone would be available?Not all teams are going to make the NCAA tourney.If the IL administration had any compassion they would lift the artificial prohibition of not allowing intra IL competition and allow the three teams to play each other,
Does anyone know of any other games on the schedule for these three teams?

Bearfan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:47 am Is the season over in the IVY League?. Saw that Penn, Dartmouth, and Brown all had a game last weekend and Dartmouth had a second game this week against St Anselms. I know that the coaches have been reaching out but with all the increased vaccinations and CDC lifting of mask wearing for outside activities, one would think someone would be available?Not all teams are going to make the NCAA tourney.If the IL administration had any compassion they would lift the artificial prohibition of not allowing intra IL competition and allow the three teams to play each other,
Does anyone know of any other games on the schedule for these three teams?

It is absurd for the Ivy League to continue to block these hard-working young men from playing. There is an infinitesimal chance of infection from playing another lacrosse team outdoors. It is my understanding that classes and finals have concluded at Brown. They should reconstitute themselves as the Bear lacrosse club and play against the Quaker lacrosse club and the Big Green lacrosse club.

I understand the Ivys did not have all their students on campus (itself a medically indefensible decision) and that they weren’t going to make an exception for athletes. However this keeps getting repeated ad nauseum as an example of their academic purity and different priorities. My question was, as compared to whom? Were there any D1 teams that did not have their general student body on campus this spring but made an exception for athletes? There very well may have been, I just have not heard of any.

Excellent idea by "Can Opener". I wonder if any coaches or IL administration reads these posts? Or how about a "captains scrimmage" that turns into a full fledged game between The three teams with paid officials and streamed?
Parents of enrolled student athletes paid a lot of money to see one game. I know it is all about the education and all which was suboptimal given remote learning etc. Most of the IVY league athletes chose their school to combine their academics and athletics. This year for the IL and last year for everyone they got the short end of a very expensive "stick".

Let the student athletes play!

Agree as well. It's long past the time for the Ivies to recognize that they've overreacted and are erring way too far on the side of caution. The rest of the lacrosse world goes on while they sit in their funk of stubbornness.

Bearfan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:23 am Excellent idea by "Can Opener". I wonder if any coaches or IL administration reads these posts? Or how about a "captains scrimmage" that turns into a full fledged game between The three teams with paid officials and streamed?
Parents of enrolled student athletes paid a lot of money to see one game. I know it is all about the education and all which was suboptimal given remote learning etc. Most of the IVY league athletes chose their school to combine their academics and athletics. This year for the IL and last year for everyone they got the short end of a very expensive "stick".

Let the student athletes play!

Have you seen an uptick in IL players hitting the transfer portal or has there been widespread de-commits in the 2021, 2022 recruiting classes? I have not seen much and was wondering. Brown was going to be sneaky good this year. I wonder if you will see some of the Brown players graduate and play somewhere else next year as graduate transfers? I believe the coaches let the returning seniors down. I am sure those guys will be fine. I loved Phil Goss.

DMac wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:39 am Agree as well. It's long past the time for the Ivies to recognize that they've overreacted and are erring way too far on the side of caution. The rest of the lacrosse world goes on while they sit in their funk of stubbornness.

I won't respond in kind to your obnoxious reaction when I dared to intrude into the Syracuse thread with a short one sentence comment. I do congratulate you on passing the 4,000 post mark. Over 40 posts in one day!

Well, you did respond so so much for that. Frankly, I don't care if I posted 142 posts in one day but since it's your obsession to count my posts go back to the Cuse thread and see what my count is (look at a few posts and see what the count is) and then look at this one. Then go to my above post and see what that number is (might be a little phukked up, eh?). Maybe you can feed your obsession and figure that all out, after all, that's what you do (had nowhere near forty in a day...sorry to disappoint).
Yes, your one back handed slap at the Cuse sentence; "That was quite a lengthy "indefinite" suspension." which you later downplayed and claimed to have been this; "My point, apparently too complex for you, is that it was the first "indefinite" suspension I can recall that only lasted a week."
You no foo' me, Clazy Amelican. Time to go get on that counting now.

Which race or culture are you mocking with your comment Dmac: "You no foo' me, Clazy Amelican." You can't help yourself. Truly sad.

You interrupted your counting for that??????
Not mocking anyone, Bubba, not everyone speaks the same.
Plenty of different dialects out there, plenty of different ways of speaking.
Can be kind of fun if you're not such a stuffed shirt...but you wouldn't know that.
Capisce?

Not sure how to get back to "typical Lax Dad"'s comments regarding letting the Seniors down. I think the coaches and players in the IVY league for the Brown, Penn and Dartmouth teams should be congratulated for keeping the team together under extremely difficult circumstances. Yes it is terrible that those seniors who returned this year and will graduate only experienced one game or that those who returned for a fifth year (Goss and McCaleb) only had one game.
Those teams stuck together and it is the IL administration that let them down. Are we to congratulate the coaches and players of H/P/Y who bailed on this year because they accurately read the tea leaves? The coaches of the other conferences kept their teams together and are having a pretty successful season given the circumstances. Had all the coaches of all the other teams outside the IVY league encouraged their players to take the year off it would have forced every player enrolled in college to take an extra year to graduate if they wanted four years of lacrosse.. All except the IL and particularly P/B and D had full support of their league administration......I don't think you can criticize the coaches of Penn/ Brown or Dartmouth. They did what 60 some other coaches and teams did but without the support of their league administration

I don't believe that one way this is handled is necessarily better than another in terms of the Ivy League. My guess is that Penn is thrilled to have had a season, however short as it was, and the opportunity for its kids to be together as a team, practice as a team, get a few games in. All good for them. I am equally confident that Yale is happy to have pushed the pause button on its season, giving its kids to get a full season in together next year. Neither right nor wrong. Just different.

pcowlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:02 am I understand the Ivys did not have all their students on campus (itself a medically indefensible decision) and that they weren’t going to make an exception for athletes. However this keeps getting repeated ad nauseum as an example of their academic purity and different priorities. My question was, as compared to whom? Were there any D1 teams that did not have their general student body on campus this spring but made an exception for athletes? There very well may have been, I just have not heard of any.

so when you say they didn't have all their students on campus, are you saying they favored one group/individuals over another?

at some schools, were certain classes/labs/majors held in person and others remotely?

hmmm....

I think the above two posts are really looking at two separate issues. Agree with Lax3 that once it became clear the Ivys were unlikely to be able to play a real season (and, internally, this was VERY early), I don't think there was a right or wrong way for the teams to respond. Whether to withdraw and preserve eligibility or stay enrolled with your teammates, it was an individual/team choice and the coaches shepherded them through as best they could. The fault, and it is a major one, lies with the administration for pulling the plug (on both their sports teams and the general student body) in the first place. This is not not open for interpretation in my mind. Every other conference is getting through the season fine, high schools everywhere are playing, boarding schools are playing, youth are playing, none of them are getting sick (which is about as surprising the sun rising), no other students are getting sick as a result of playing, no coaches are getting sick as a result of playing, no community outbreaks have occurred as a result of playing because, once more with feeling, COVID is virtually impossible to catch outside and is virtually harmless in this age group even if they do catch it.

But what is done is done. Agree would love to see Brown, Penn and Dartmouth find some way to play each other. These kids all have cars, they don't have to take busses, what if they just drive somewhere to meet and play? Hire their own refs. The schools wouldn't dare discipline them, the optics would be even more atrocious than they currently are.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:37 am

pcowlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:02 am I understand the Ivys did not have all their students on campus (itself a medically indefensible decision) and that they weren’t going to make an exception for athletes. However this keeps getting repeated ad nauseum as an example of their academic purity and different priorities. My question was, as compared to whom? Were there any D1 teams that did not have their general student body on campus this spring but made an exception for athletes? There very well may have been, I just have not heard of any.

so when you say they didn't have all their students on campus, are you saying they favored one group/individuals over another?

at some schools, were certain classes/labs/majors held in person and others remotely?

hmmm....

My point was that Ivy defenders say that, since they did not have all of their students on campus, it would have been prioritizing athletics over academics to allow the athletes back. And they say that as though that was a different and admirable decision compared to other schools. My questions is whether that is actually happening anywhere else. And, again, it may well be. I have just not heard of any schools who have only let athletes back on campus. If no one else is actually doing that, it is not then some sort of defense as to why you, and not them, are unable to play.

pcowlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:49 am

wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:37 am

pcowlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:02 am I understand the Ivys did not have all their students on campus (itself a medically indefensible decision) and that they weren’t going to make an exception for athletes. However this keeps getting repeated ad nauseum as an example of their academic purity and different priorities. My question was, as compared to whom? Were there any D1 teams that did not have their general student body on campus this spring but made an exception for athletes? There very well may have been, I just have not heard of any.

so when you say they didn't have all their students on campus, are you saying they favored one group/individuals over another?

at some schools, were certain classes/labs/majors held in person and others remotely?

hmmm....

My point was that Ivy defenders say that, since they did not have all of their students on campus, it would have prioritizing athletics over academics to allow the students back. And they say that as though that was a different and admirable decision compared to other schools. My questions is whether that is actually happening anywhere else. And, again, it may well be. I have just not heard of any schools who have only let athletes back on campus. If no one else is actually doing that, it is not then some sort of defense as to why you, and not them, are unable to play.

yes, i got your point and question. and mine was tertiary. not directed to you necessarily, but to the notion that all students are created equal, so....

as far as your initial point, i don't know of any schools that allowed all athletes back but denied others. it may have happened to some degree re: availability of housing if schools had 1 to a room, etc. and students may have gotten blocked out from finding it off campus. mix in though some parents / kids not wanting exposed/on lockdown /paying room and board/ taking a gap if everything was remote learning on campus anyway.

Nothing to see here.
No one goes to the Ivies for Athletics. Period. No matter how many lax titles Princeton/Yale and Cornell have won.
Why are these Ivy parents/players surprised that they shut down? Their priorities are simply NOT athletics. Never have been. Never will be. They state it out loud. They repeat it by not giving athletic scholarships. They brag about it on lacrosse forums.
Then they are surprised there is no lax season?
For being smart enough to be admitted to Ivy League schools, some people just ain't too bright.
Exact same scenario with the NESCAC kids/families.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:19 pm Nothing to see here.
No one goes to the Ivies for Athletics. Period. No matter how many lax titles Princeton/Yale and Cornell have won.
Why are these Ivy parents/players surprised that they shut down? Their priorities are simply NOT athletics. Never have been. Never will be. They state it out loud. They repeat it by not giving athletic scholarships. They brag about it on lacrosse forums.
Then they are surprised there is no lax season?
For being smart enough to be admitted to Ivy League schools, some people just ain't too bright.
Exact same scenario with the NESCAC kids/families.

Who is surprised?