we should move those tax rates back up, another 2 to 3% to where we were. better yet, +20% at the top!!cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:23 pmOne thing I have learned on a personal level about trumps tax shenanigans... I now know what fair share of taxes really is... ZERO BABY!!CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:45 am Can one of the IMPOTUS worshippers here defend this constant lie? He could make the "fake news" NTY story go away with one fell swoop...
Trump has claimed that he cannot release his tax records while they are being audited by the IRS — however, this is not true, writes Jake Horton for BBC News, who explains there is no legal authority prohibiting the release of presidents’ tax records during an ongoing IRS review.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54323383
And his debts are coming due...
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:37 pmAnd his debts are coming due...
BS estimates of Trump's worth. I would be surprised if his actual net worth is more than a couple of hundred million.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:54 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:37 pmAnd his debts are coming due...
Sometimes I really wonder if you're in business and not some radical lefty professor.
He is personally guaranteed on $429 million, on assets conservatively worth $2.5 billion (and that's the conservative estimate...others have them pegged north of $5 billion; that is net of total debt of $1 billion). This is hardly a workout scenario.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbre ... f695786f27
Real estate owners constantly remortgage properties and take on higher debt so as to get tax free income; I do it myself with a hotel property in the northeast. Lenders lend based on assets and cash flow; 'Trump Inc.' as constituted today is perfectly fine. These loans will roll over with zero problems. And if even Ladder Cap wouldn't touch them, there are dozens of other lenders willing to step in and get that yield that Trump would need to pay if Ladder and DB balked.
Didn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:31 pmDidn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Yet you do it here.
So I was right- you don't REALLY care about speculation, just the target of it.
Practice what you preach, big guy.
ahhh, good catch.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pmBS estimates of Trump's worth. I would be surprised if his actual net worth is more than a couple of hundred million.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:54 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:37 pmAnd his debts are coming due...
Sometimes I really wonder if you're in business and not some radical lefty professor.
He is personally guaranteed on $429 million, on assets conservatively worth $2.5 billion (and that's the conservative estimate...others have them pegged north of $5 billion; that is net of total debt of $1 billion). This is hardly a workout scenario.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbre ... f695786f27
Real estate owners constantly remortgage properties and take on higher debt so as to get tax free income; I do it myself with a hotel property in the northeast. Lenders lend based on assets and cash flow; 'Trump Inc.' as constituted today is perfectly fine. These loans will roll over with zero problems. And if even Ladder Cap wouldn't touch them, there are dozens of other lenders willing to step in and get that yield that Trump would need to pay if Ladder and DB balked.
Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Nope, Mar a Lago may be worth $100-150 million at most. Revenues are declining and post election, hoo boy expect big declines. But it has some hard asset, location value, so someone may take it off his hands when push comes to shove.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:37 pmkramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:31 pmDidn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Yet you do it here.
So I was right- you don't REALLY care about speculation, just the target of it.
Practice what you preach, big guy.
Red’s post is junk. Straight up. I don’t care what Trump’s assets are worth but Mar a Lago has to be over $500,000,000 alone.
The financial analyst that I quoted asked many people involved in accounting of that sort, and no one can understand the statements _except_ as some sort of way of hiding illegalities. So maybe not quite proven facts, but plenty of evidence for someone to run with. And not idle speculation.kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:31 pmDidn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Yet you do it here.
So I was right- you don't REALLY care about speculation, just the target of it.
Practice what you preach, big guy.
And PB is making a MASSIVE (and probably untrue) assumption that Trump owns it without debt.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:46 pmNope, Mar a Lago may be worth $100-150 million at most. Revenues are declining and post election, hoo boy expect big declines. But it has some hard asset, location value, so someone may take it off his hands when push comes to shove.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:37 pmkramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:31 pmDidn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Yet you do it here.
So I was right- you don't REALLY care about speculation, just the target of it.
Practice what you preach, big guy.
Red’s post is junk. Straight up. I don’t care what Trump’s assets are worth but Mar a Lago has to be over $500,000,000 alone.
Riiight!RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:48 pmThe financial analyst that I quoted asked many people involved in accounting of that sort, and no one can understand the statements _except_ as some sort of way of hiding illegalities. So maybe not quite proven facts, but plenty of evidence for someone to run with. And not idle speculation.kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:31 pmDidn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Yet you do it here.
So I was right- you don't REALLY care about speculation, just the target of it.
Practice what you preach, big guy.
Given his desperation for cash, very likely he's either mortgaged it at some point or pledged it to secure other loans...RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:48 pmAnd PB is making a MASSIVE (and probably untrue) assumption that Trump owns it without debt.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:46 pmNope, Mar a Lago may be worth $100-150 million at most. Revenues are declining and post election, hoo boy expect big declines. But it has some hard asset, location value, so someone may take it off his hands when push comes to shove.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:37 pmkramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:31 pmDidn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Yet you do it here.
So I was right- you don't REALLY care about speculation, just the target of it.
Practice what you preach, big guy.
Red’s post is junk. Straight up. I don’t care what Trump’s assets are worth but Mar a Lago has to be over $500,000,000 alone.
there are a lot of people out there that know a lot more than moi about real estate, and you are one of them....MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:39 pmahhh, good catch.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pmBS estimates of Trump's worth. I would be surprised if his actual net worth is more than a couple of hundred million.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:54 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:37 pmAnd his debts are coming due...
Sometimes I really wonder if you're in business and not some radical lefty professor.
He is personally guaranteed on $429 million, on assets conservatively worth $2.5 billion (and that's the conservative estimate...others have them pegged north of $5 billion; that is net of total debt of $1 billion). This is hardly a workout scenario.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbre ... f695786f27
Real estate owners constantly remortgage properties and take on higher debt so as to get tax free income; I do it myself with a hotel property in the northeast. Lenders lend based on assets and cash flow; 'Trump Inc.' as constituted today is perfectly fine. These loans will roll over with zero problems. And if even Ladder Cap wouldn't touch them, there are dozens of other lenders willing to step in and get that yield that Trump would need to pay if Ladder and DB balked.
Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
That does explain PB's desperation. Needs Ron ohh so badly...wonder when his loans are coming due and whether he's personally guaranteed...
Yup, what Petey also doesn't seem to understand is that the downside of Trump financing each property separately is that when the loan is up, no other assets matter. That's fine if you're willing to flush investments in bankruptcies limiting your exposure to just that one deal, but it also means that the lender won't give you credit for the cash flows of other properties (if any such actually exist).
In the 80's Trump was still snowing investors/lenders with his braggadocio, while not personally guaranteeing the deals...so when they went south, the investors and lenders took a bath...and Trump then claimed the tax loss! (the laws no longer allow this). The issue with the $70+ million deduction he took that is what has kept him locked in battle with the IRS is that he went beyond what those laws actually allowed when he refinanced the properties and kept an interest ongoing instead of the total loss required. Oops, too aggressive. He's eventually going to have to cough that up. In the meantime, his lawyers are making serious bank.
By the end of the '80's, the investors/lenders with an ounce of brains and integrity were enormously PO'd, but had little recourse. But no more dough re me.
Fortunately for Trump, he stumbled into a venture that rewarded the braggadocio, TV, and began to generate some cash again. Kept him afloat, but it was something of a Ponzi scheme, in one door out the other, while maintaining a false image of success. But the bankers didn't forget.
But fortunately for Trump, he had long established relationships with the shadiest of shady international money sources, particularly Russian mob, so he recognized that he could be 'of service' to these and other such folks to help them 'move' and/or 'launder' their cash. Deutsche Banc became only one such funnel.
Trump's problem now is that he apparently went on the loans personally, and unless he can continue to be 'of service' to the lenders, they're looking at capturing what value they can when the loans come due, before the next tough guy gets his. Trump doesn't have enough to cover it all, and many of the properties are bleeding badly. So, the lenders won't want to be the last ones in the game of musical chairs without a chair.
BTW, Kushner has many of the same problems. It's undoubtedly why he couldn't get clearances, and why Kelly was so PO'd when Trump over rode him and the IC.
But....hold onto the Presidency and Trump and Kushner can continue to be "of service" in ways beyond the property interests.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:46 pmNope, Mar a Lago may be worth $100-150 million at most. Revenues are declining and post election, hoo boy expect big declines. But it has some hard asset, location value, so someone may take it off his hands when push comes to shove.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:37 pmkramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:31 pmDidn't you accost me yesterday for posting "unsupported speculation. Not a whit of real evidence?" as fact?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pm Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
Yet you do it here.
So I was right- you don't REALLY care about speculation, just the target of it.
Practice what you preach, big guy.
Red’s post is junk. Straight up. I don’t care what Trump’s assets are worth but Mar a Lago has to be over $500,000,000 alone.
But hey, he only paid $10 million for it back in 1985, so there's some solace.
Trump has not come out smelling like a rose. That’s why he only has two lenders. One of the NY Banks does some wealth management for the family. Trump has managed to stave off his creditors. He may be able to get something done but at much higher rates. Trump is on record for saying he values his assets by gut and what he thinks they are worth. What he says he is worth and what appraisals show are two different things.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:08 pmthere are a lot of people out there that know a lot more than moi about real estate, and you are one of them....MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:39 pmahhh, good catch.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:01 pmBS estimates of Trump's worth. I would be surprised if his actual net worth is more than a couple of hundred million.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:54 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:37 pmAnd his debts are coming due...
Sometimes I really wonder if you're in business and not some radical lefty professor.
He is personally guaranteed on $429 million, on assets conservatively worth $2.5 billion (and that's the conservative estimate...others have them pegged north of $5 billion; that is net of total debt of $1 billion). This is hardly a workout scenario.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbre ... f695786f27
Real estate owners constantly remortgage properties and take on higher debt so as to get tax free income; I do it myself with a hotel property in the northeast. Lenders lend based on assets and cash flow; 'Trump Inc.' as constituted today is perfectly fine. These loans will roll over with zero problems. And if even Ladder Cap wouldn't touch them, there are dozens of other lenders willing to step in and get that yield that Trump would need to pay if Ladder and DB balked.
Find the post I did yesterday looking at his golf courses in Scotland (analysis from Twitter). Vastly inflated values of real estate, that keep going up to cover the fact that Trump is probably money laundering...
And no, those loans will not roll over with no problems UNLESS Trump is still president, and then the ask will be large for Trump - and potentially dangerous for the USA.
I thought you were in the air services business. What the heck are you holding hotel real estate for? No wonder you are so desperate for "opening" the country up...
That does explain PB's desperation. Needs Ron ohh so badly...wonder when his loans are coming due and whether he's personally guaranteed...
Yup, what Petey also doesn't seem to understand is that the downside of Trump financing each property separately is that when the loan is up, no other assets matter. That's fine if you're willing to flush investments in bankruptcies limiting your exposure to just that one deal, but it also means that the lender won't give you credit for the cash flows of other properties (if any such actually exist).
In the 80's Trump was still snowing investors/lenders with his braggadocio, while not personally guaranteeing the deals...so when they went south, the investors and lenders took a bath...and Trump then claimed the tax loss! (the laws no longer allow this). The issue with the $70+ million deduction he took that is what has kept him locked in battle with the IRS is that he went beyond what those laws actually allowed when he refinanced the properties and kept an interest ongoing instead of the total loss required. Oops, too aggressive. He's eventually going to have to cough that up. In the meantime, his lawyers are making serious bank.
By the end of the '80's, the investors/lenders with an ounce of brains and integrity were enormously PO'd, but had little recourse. But no more dough re me.
Fortunately for Trump, he stumbled into a venture that rewarded the braggadocio, TV, and began to generate some cash again. Kept him afloat, but it was something of a Ponzi scheme, in one door out the other, while maintaining a false image of success. But the bankers didn't forget.
But fortunately for Trump, he had long established relationships with the shadiest of shady international money sources, particularly Russian mob, so he recognized that he could be 'of service' to these and other such folks to help them 'move' and/or 'launder' their cash. Deutsche Banc became only one such funnel.
Trump's problem now is that he apparently went on the loans personally, and unless he can continue to be 'of service' to the lenders, they're looking at capturing what value they can when the loans come due, before the next tough guy gets his. Trump doesn't have enough to cover it all, and many of the properties are bleeding badly. So, the lenders won't want to be the last ones in the game of musical chairs without a chair.
BTW, Kushner has many of the same problems. It's undoubtedly why he couldn't get clearances, and why Kelly was so PO'd when Trump over rode him and the IC.
But....hold onto the Presidency and Trump and Kushner can continue to be "of service" in ways beyond the property interests.
but you're old enough to remember the guys in md/dc that pers guaranteed loans in the development bus in the 90s and mid-2000s. with the thought "wt-f did he do that for?"
some got slammed. others came out smelling like a rose.
trump - just an observation - has given himself a lot of credit for coming out smelling like a rose. his lucky charm may run out some day, and soon, but that's a bet i wouldn't make.