LaxPower Back-Up Stick

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:52 pm

njbill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:45 pm Kelly’s aide says he didn’t hear the comments, which is different than refuting them.

That doesn’t rule out that Trump made the comments to Kelly when the aide wasn’t present. Or that Trump made at least some of the comments to someone else. The aide does not say he was by Trump’s side at all relevant times.

I didn’t hear the comments either, but that doesn’t provide Trump any support.

The jury of public opinion has returned their verdict on this. He said it. Trumpists don’t care. They don’t care about anything really.

Kelly could confirm it. He has not. He stayed on the job after Trump supposedly said all those things & has now trashed him.

This hit job is running out of steam. Cohen's book is the hit piece d'jour.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:52 pm Kelly could confirm it. He has not. He stayed on the job after Trump supposedly said all those things & has now trashed him.

Old Salt wrote:

3rdpersonplural wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:34 pm
I mostly agree with you, Old Salt. (Let's put that comment in the hopper....)

But Soldiers who were sent to France in 1917 and died fighting in a war we had no dog in......they weren't suckers for joining up or losers for getting killed. Those were the soldiers Trump refused to honor as POTUS. No dancing girls. No Roaring crowds. No drama. He just had to stand in the rain and look like he was empathetic. What a waste of time!

Trump feels differently about people who join the services than you and I do. Here is an article that looks at this from a pro-services but not anti-Trump POV. You might like....

When Donald Trump made a brief visit to troops in Iraq at Christmas 2018, he denigrated their service to their faces, repeating this parasitic, transactional attitude toward sacrifice. He explained to the assembled audience of soldiers that they were sent there as “suckers,” but that he was going to fix it.

“If they want us to do the fighting, they also have to pay a price — and sometimes that’s also a monetary price — so we’re not the suckers of the world. We’re no longer the suckers, folks. And people aren’t looking at us as suckers.”

No more alliances. No more communal, shared values. In MAGALand, the “Free World” gets a new price tag. Sacrifice is for chumps.

https://www.politicalorphans.com/suckers-and-losers/

I don't disagree that Trump is transactional, lacks empathy & has no sense of service. That does not mean he doesn't care for the troops.
He's sees the troops as being misused & played for suckers, for being sent into optional wars, by feckless politicians. While I understand (& share) the troops sense of duty to our country, I agree with Trump's bottom line transactional analysis. I just wouldn't share that view as a military leader or as the CinC, but I would let it guide me in my decisions regarding the use of our military & in our policies, strategies & dealings with our allies.

Based on the evidence & statements of other officials present, I'm confident that Trump would have made the trip if the helo could have flown. He followed the urging of the Secret Service & of Gen Kelly to not make that trip, & went to a closer cemetery, already scheduled, the next day.
I think he resented Kelly for boxing him in by planning to visit that distant USMC cemetery, when there were other closer cemeteries he could have visited, with less security disruption, as other foreign leaders did.

Keep in mind that Gen Kelly subsequently went to bat for Trump (& took considerable heat) in defending him vs the empty barrel Cowgirl Congresswoman who highjacked the CinC's conversation with a soldier's widow. Kelly did that AFTER Trump's supposed comments in Paris & at Kellys son's grave site. Kelly hasn't confirmed this stuff & his aide just refuted it.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:04 pmWhat a horrible, horrible thing to say to a former POW. I mean...you'd think that every veteran in America would call for his head for saying that.

Do Trump fans care? F no. They think it's funny. They think it's awesome. Or they have a box of excuses on little slips of paper at the ready as to why saying something like that was fine. If I was McCain's kid, and I heard someone say that, knowing what it meant to be a POW in that war? Lights out, baby...my big fist on his chin. I'd serve my time in prison with pride.

Maybe because a lot of us heard a lot of that (& worse) throughout the '70's, from phony pols who now say thank you for your service.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm Results, not rhetoric are what matter.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm I would hope that John McCain would be pleased with the improvements in the VA under Trump

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm the pay raises, & lifting the budget caps.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:34 pm Well there's the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. Which may not have even been to my taste fully (I'd prefer there be one bracket for everyone), but to stem the tide of higher taxation alone is worth the guy's weight in gold.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:34 pm There is also the issue of federal judges and SCOTUS judges, which I won't belabor, but for any sane American, the only judges you should demand anymore are conservative judges since they are the only ones at the table who adhere to the US Constitution

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:34 pm I could keep going but you get my point. You are again, like MD< underestimating the American citizenry; they're far smarter than you want to give them credit for.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:34 pm It's the same analogy as to why Leopold's has an audience; otherwise, everyone would have been stuck drinking Gordon's. People want better, they want nicer; this isn't the USSR. Trump halted (in spite of your silly protestations) a deep state embed in all of your lives.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:34 pm The voters see it, no matter how much you protest otherwise! (incidentally, the more you protest 'Trump', the more likely it becomes he is re-elected; this is the theory that the people don't like being talked down to)

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:45 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:04 pmWhat a horrible, horrible thing to say to a former POW. I mean...you'd think that every veteran in America would call for his head for saying that.

Do Trump fans care? F no. They think it's funny. They think it's awesome. Or they have a box of excuses on little slips of paper at the ready as to why saying something like that was fine. If I was McCain's kid, and I heard someone say that, knowing what it meant to be a POW in that war? Lights out, baby...my big fist on his chin. I'd serve my time in prison with pride.

Maybe because a lot of us heard a lot of that (& worse) throughout the '70's, from phony pols who now say thank you for your service.

Great. So in other words, it's fine. Gee, I'm shocked that it's ok by you for Trump to say that in 2017.
I didn't say it's fine. I'm sayin' Trump has a higher regard for the well being of the troops than a lot of his fellow Vietnam generation, politicians included. How many of them objected when the ROTC was run off the Ivy campuses ?

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm Results, not rhetoric are what matter.

Buffalo bagels, and you know it. Your #1 gripe about Obama was rhetoric. You wouldn't let him go. How many times did you complain about his speeches?
I objected to his policies & decisions -- pulling out of Iraq, ignoring the rise of ISIS, funding Iran's terrorism, attacking Libya then leading from behind as it descended into chaos, aided "moderate" Syrians just enough to prolong the civil war, surged in Afghanistan while announcing the withdrawl date, while firing McChrystal, Flynn, Mattis, Kelly & Allen.

You're fumbling for excuses. Anything you can find. It's not working, OS. I don't believe you, because I saw how you handled a little D POTUS. You hammered him for every single word that came out his mouth.
I made fun of his empty Olympian rhetoric.

You can approve of his results----as I have, when they are there-----AND condemn the nonsense that comes out of his mouth.
I've repeatedly said I don't agree with much of what Trump says & tweets. Results not rhetoric.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm I would hope that John McCain would be pleased with the improvements in the VA under Trump

This is news to me. What improvements? Extending the civilian care option to all vets. The cause for the backlogs.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm the pay raises, & lifting the budget caps.

That's not Trump, my man. That's your boy Mitchey. Obama couldn't give those men and women a raise or shiny new ships if he wanted to.
It was Trump's bidget. He campaigned on it, held the House & Senate & signed the bills.

Oh and Pelosi. Pelosi signed every one of those bills. I'm sure your thanks to her are forthcoming?
Ryan was the Speaker.

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:40 pm Here's what I'm worried about. Trump may well be transactional, lack empathy & have no sense of service, but Biden is sold hook line and sinker to the NeoLiberal bankers and CEOs who have no concern for the middle class. In the big picture, Biden is just more competent, and that's because he likes his lieutenants to run things. Trump is an old eagle who ain't giving up the reins. But he's run by NeoCons. He done given up.

Trump got elected because he promised to stand up to these guys, and then he caved. Biden has already caved. Do we need a 3rd, Peoples, populist party?

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:31 pm All you care about is rhetoric. Trump has done more to contain & counter Russia than any President since Reagan (vs the USSR)

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 pm Or maybe he shares my belief that, other than WW II & our initial action in Afghanistan, all our other post imperial wars have been optional.
Our Civil War, WW I, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (both times & in between)

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:57 pm I objected to [Obama's] policies & decisions -- pulling out of Iraq

CU77 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:50 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 pm Or maybe he shares my belief that, other than WW II & our initial action in Afghanistan, all our other post imperial wars have been optional.
Our Civil War, WW I, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (both times & in between)

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:57 pm I objected to [Obama's] policies & decisions -- pulling out of Iraq

Obama ended a war you claim to object to, but somehow you object to that.

But the real clue to what underlies your views is the "Civil War" comment.

CU77 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:43 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:31 pm All you care about is rhetoric. Trump has done more to contain & counter Russia than any President since Reagan (vs the USSR)

And anyway, according to your sig, "containing and countering" Russia no longer matters.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 am

CU77 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:50 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 pm Or maybe he shares my belief that, other than WW II & our initial action in Afghanistan, all our other post imperial wars have been optional.
Our Civil War, WW I, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (both times & in between)

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:57 pm I objected to [Obama's] policies & decisions -- pulling out of Iraq

Obama ended a war you claim to object to, but somehow you object to that.

But the real clue to what underlies your views is the "Civil War" comment.

Obama didn't end the war in Iraq. He revived & extended it. The war was won by 2010. All that was needed was a small residual force to prop up the ISF. Obama bailed. ISIS arose. Obama dithered. We had to go back & are still there (without a SOFA) with the small residual force Obama needed to leave a decade ago. Obama owns ISIS & all the death & destruction they wrought in Iraq & Syria,

I agree with Gen Kelly. Our civil war was due to an inability to compromise on a way to end slavery without resorting to war.
Europe & the rest of our hemisphere ended slavery without resorting to civil war.
Based on the way our nation was born, the Confederate states were within their rights to secede, just as the original states had rebelled.
How's that CA secession movement that you were touting coming ?

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:47 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 am

CU77 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:50 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 pm Or maybe he shares my belief that, other than WW II & our initial action in Afghanistan, all our other post imperial wars have been optional.
Our Civil War, WW I, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (both times & in between)

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:57 pm I objected to [Obama's] policies & decisions -- pulling out of Iraq

Obama ended a war you claim to object to, but somehow you object to that.

But the real clue to what underlies your views is the "Civil War" comment.

Obama didn't end the war in Iraq. He revived & extended it. The war was won by 2010. All that was needed was a small residual force to prop up the ISF. Obama bailed. ISIS arose. Obama dithered. We had to go back & are still there (without a SOFA) with the small residual force Obama needed to leave a decade ago. Obama owns ISIS & all the death & destruction they wrought in Iraq & Syria,

I agree with Gen Kelly. Our civil war was due to an inability to compromise on a way to end slavery without resorting to war.
Europe & the rest of our hemisphere ended slavery without resorting to civil war.
Based on the way our nation was born, the Confederate states were within their rights to secede, just as the original states had rebelled.
How's that CA secession movement that you were touting coming ?

In the middle of a NYT story explaining why Trump, whose campaign has raised over $1 billion, is facing a cash crunch, it reveals that Trump’s bodyguard — whom they don’t name — has been paid $500,000 since 2017.

[snip]

In other words, it’s not just from [Stone] — whom Trump bought the silence of by commuting his prison time — that Trump must buy silence. He also has to ensure that Schiller doesn’t repeat details of what Stone told Trump when he got advance notice of the first WikiLeaks drop, what he told Trump a week before the Podesta files started dropping, and what he told Trump the night before.

And that’s just what SSCI was able to discover from a really partial understanding of what Mueller found. With access to (at least) much of Stone’s unencrypted emails and texts from 2016, Mueller would have had a far better idea of what Schiller may have witnessed while serving as the cut-out between Trump and his rat-forker.

Whatever secrets Trump is paying Schiller to keep, they are apparently worth bankrupting his re-election campaign fund.

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:30 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:47 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 am

CU77 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:50 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 pm Or maybe he shares my belief that, other than WW II & our initial action in Afghanistan, all our other post imperial wars have been optional.
Our Civil War, WW I, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (both times & in between)

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:57 pm I objected to [Obama's] policies & decisions -- pulling out of Iraq

Obama ended a war you claim to object to, but somehow you object to that.

But the real clue to what underlies your views is the "Civil War" comment.

Obama didn't end the war in Iraq. He revived & extended it. The war was won by 2010. All that was needed was a small residual force to prop up the ISF. Obama bailed. ISIS arose. Obama dithered. We had to go back & are still there (without a SOFA) with the small residual force Obama needed to leave a decade ago. Obama owns ISIS & all the death & destruction they wrought in Iraq & Syria,

I agree with Gen Kelly. Our civil war was due to an inability to compromise on a way to end slavery without resorting to war.
Europe & the rest of our hemisphere ended slavery without resorting to civil war.
Based on the way our nation was born, the Confederate states were within their rights to secede, just as the original states had rebelled.
How's that CA secession movement that you were touting coming ?

If that’s your perspective on the Civil War and slavery, then you are clearly a racist.

The South should have ended slavery ... period. Anything short of that was a crime against humanity.

The abolitionists in the North had compromised on slavery since the dawn of the nation. By 1860, it was long past time to end an evil institution that should have never existed in the first place.

The Civil War, from a moral perspective, was entirely the fault of the Confederacy.

DocBarrister

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:31 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:30 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:47 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 am

CU77 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:50 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 pm Or maybe he shares my belief that, other than WW II & our initial action in Afghanistan, all our other post imperial wars have been optional.
Our Civil War, WW I, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (both times & in between)

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:57 pm I objected to [Obama's] policies & decisions -- pulling out of Iraq

Obama ended a war you claim to object to, but somehow you object to that.

But the real clue to what underlies your views is the "Civil War" comment.

Obama didn't end the war in Iraq. He revived & extended it. The war was won by 2010. All that was needed was a small residual force to prop up the ISF. Obama bailed. ISIS arose. Obama dithered. We had to go back & are still there (without a SOFA) with the small residual force Obama needed to leave a decade ago. Obama owns ISIS & all the death & destruction they wrought in Iraq & Syria,

I agree with Gen Kelly. Our civil war was due to an inability to compromise on a way to end slavery without resorting to war.
Europe & the rest of our hemisphere ended slavery without resorting to civil war.
Based on the way our nation was born, the Confederate states were within their rights to secede, just as the original states had rebelled.
How's that CA secession movement that you were touting coming ?

If that’s your perspective on the Civil War and slavery, then you are clearly a racist.

The South should have ended slavery ... period. Anything short of that was a crime against humanity.

The abolitionists in the North had compromised on slavery since the dawn of the nation. By 1860, it was long past time to end an evil institution that should have never existed in the first place.

The Civil War, from a moral perspective, was entirely the fault of the Confederacy.

DocBarrister

The guy who refuses to allow black kids and parents to choose schools of their choice (because white teacher's unions and their exorbitantly-paid administrators need coin to buy Vegas hookers, and so scratch the DNC's back to keep black kids from excelling) claims someone else is a racist.