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Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:10 pm
by ggait
WG -- The study from UMinn 10 days ago seems very solid. And it says HCQ whiffs as a preventive. And Dr. Boulare isn't mincing words -- the preventive HCQ dog does not hunt:

“While we are disappointed that [HCQ] did not prevent COVID-19, we are pleased that we were able to provide a conclusive answer,” said Dr. David Boulware, leader of the U trial. “Our objective was to find an answer.”

I believe there is a continuing trial at The U examining whether HCQ benefits patients after early onset of symptoms.

I'll wait for UMinn and UPenn to say what their real, double blind, randomized trials show.

All the anecdotal stuff from various places around the world is just noise until a real trial produces real results. Has nothing to do (as you suggest) with the USA media agenda. We get plenty of wishful BS from Trump -- no need for anyone else to add to that.

Re: All things Trump CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:26 am
by DocBarrister
Since Donald Trump is closely allied with the Communist Party of China and its leader (explaining his effusive praise of China early in the pandemic), and since “Trump” is now synonymous with “Chinese”, can we please change the racist title of this thread to “All things Trump CoronaVirus”?

DocBarrister :?

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:08 am
by Catbird
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... masks.html

Protests have been going on long enough that we would have started seeing spikes by now in those cities, instead the spikes are showing up in the south instead comfortably attributed to no masks and people congregating in close quarters indoors.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
by wgdsr
ggait wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:10 pm WG -- The study from UMinn 10 days ago seems very solid. And it says HCQ whiffs as a preventive. And Dr. Boulare isn't mincing words -- the preventive HCQ dog does not hunt:

“While we are disappointed that [HCQ] did not prevent COVID-19, we are pleased that we were able to provide a conclusive answer,” said Dr. David Boulware, leader of the U trial. “Our objective was to find an answer.”

I believe there is a continuing trial at The U examining whether HCQ benefits patients after early onset of symptoms.

I'll wait for UMinn and UPenn to say what their real, double blind, randomized trials show.

All the anecdotal stuff from various places around the world is just noise until a real trial produces real results. Has nothing to do (as you suggest) with the USA media agenda. We get plenty of wishful BS from Trump -- no need for anyone else to add to that.
you missed the point.
what i suggest is that usa media agenda has flamed "anecdotal stuff from various places around the world" without a real trial pretty regularly.
it's alarming, really. it has set policy.
it has gotten major world health orgs to go back and forth.
with drugs and other matters in this pandemic.
it's gotten a major health publisher to smear their own name.
that's my opinion.

on minny... there are 2 types of preventive. pre and post exposure. for all the misgivings of a trial that has to be run on a budget, they gave some info.
if you've already been exposed, you can still develop symptoms regardless of taking this drug. that is just one aspect of even one type of preventative.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:42 am
by Bart
wgdsr wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am
ggait wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:10 pm WG -- The study from UMinn 10 days ago seems very solid. And it says HCQ whiffs as a preventive. And Dr. Boulare isn't mincing words -- the preventive HCQ dog does not hunt:

“While we are disappointed that [HCQ] did not prevent COVID-19, we are pleased that we were able to provide a conclusive answer,” said Dr. David Boulware, leader of the U trial. “Our objective was to find an answer.”

I believe there is a continuing trial at The U examining whether HCQ benefits patients after early onset of symptoms.

I'll wait for UMinn and UPenn to say what their real, double blind, randomized trials show.

All the anecdotal stuff from various places around the world is just noise until a real trial produces real results. Has nothing to do (as you suggest) with the USA media agenda. We get plenty of wishful BS from Trump -- no need for anyone else to add to that.
you missed the point.
what i suggest is that usa media agenda has flamed "anecdotal stuff from various places around the world" without a real trial pretty regularly.
it's alarming, really. it has set policy.
it has gotten major world health orgs to go back and forth.
with drugs and other matters in this pandemic.
it's gotten a major health publisher to smear their own name.
that's my opinion.

on minny... there are 2 types of preventive. pre and post exposure. for all the misgivings of a trial that has to be run on a budget, they gave some info.
if you've already been exposed, you can still develop symptoms regardless of taking this drug. that is just one aspect of even one type of preventative.
Are you suggesting taking HQ prior to any exposure at all? It would behave as, for lack of a better term, a vaccine?

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:15 am
by ggait
Catbird wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:08 am https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... masks.html

Protests have been going on long enough that we would have started seeing spikes by now in those cities, instead the spikes are showing up in the south instead comfortably attributed to no masks and people congregating in close quarters indoors.
As places like TX and AZ get into the very hot summer, folks spend more time gathering inside in AC spaces.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:55 pm
by seacoaster
ggait wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:15 am
Catbird wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:08 am https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... masks.html

Protests have been going on long enough that we would have started seeing spikes by now in those cities, instead the spikes are showing up in the south instead comfortably attributed to no masks and people congregating in close quarters indoors.
As places like TX and AZ get into the very hot summer, folks spend more time gathering inside in AC spaces.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vor ... ronavirus/

"Diners walking into a restaurant might be able to tell a lot about how the establishment is mitigating the risk of spreading the novel coronavirus. They can see the servers in masks, the touchless systems many are offering for payment, the frequent disinfection by staff of commonly touched surfaces.

But there’s one thing they can’t see that could play a part: The air around them.

By now, we’re used to staying six feet from others, per social-distancing recommendations. For months, public health experts have described the virus as being primarily transmitted through droplets from an infected person’s cough or sneeze to nearby people or surfaces.

Lately, research and discussion has focused on airborne transmission over longer distances. Some scientists say covid-19 can spread by traveling in small particles called aerosols.


“That evidence is building right now,” says Chad Roy, director of infectious-disease aerobiology at the Tulane National Primate Research Center. “It’s not as prominent a pathway [as droplets or infected surfaces], but it’s one we need to pay attention to.”

How the virus is transmitted might be more important in restaurants than in many other venues, notes L. James Lo, an assistant professor at Drexel University in Philadelphia who studies airflow and how viruses circulate, because people linger there far longer than they do in, say, a grocery store. Exposure to the virus can come from encountering a high dose for a short time or a low dose over a longer period, he says.

“In a restaurant, you’re enjoying your dinner and spending more time, which means you are stuck with the same people for a long time.”


Should you sit inside or out?

Public health experts are recommending alfresco activities, including dining, over indoor ones. The virus is quickly diluted in fresh air, Roy notes. “It’s much easier to socially distance outdoors,” which is the most effective preventive measure (along with washing your hands), says Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. “You can space tables farther,” he says.

Cities around the world are moving to accommodate more people engaging in open-air activities. Some are closing off streets to cars to allow more room for pedestrians and additional patio seating for restaurants. The Lithuanian capital of Vilnius is allowing bars and restaurants to take over public spaces, essentially turning the city into a massive outdoor cafe across its plazas and squares. And San Francisco’s mayor just approved a plan to allow eateries to apply for permits to use sidewalks and parking lanes once dine-in service is allowed

Completely open-air dining is safest; covered patios are better than indoors, Lo says. “The more obstruction for natural air movement, the less flushed-out the air is going to be,” he says.

Can air-conditioning systems spread the virus?

The short answer is that it’s possible but unlikely, according to experts.

A recent study of an incident that took place at a restaurant in China, where the virus originated, found nine people were infected with covid-19 by a diner sitting near an air-conditioning vent. A study of the transmission, published in a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention journal, showed how one diner infected diners at adjoining tables, as droplets containing the virus were apparently carried by the air conditioning

Four people at the person’s table later tested positive for covid-19, as well as five people at neighboring tables, some as far as 14 feet away.

Scientists caution that the study documents a single incident and note that the restaurant’s air conditioning system was very different from those used by U.S. restaurants. “The ventilation was one-tenth of what it should be if you use standards that apply to most U.S. restaurants,” says William Bahnfleth, a professor of architectural engineering at Pennsylvania State University and chairman of the epidemic task force convened by the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers. He pointed to a later analysis and simulation of the incident indicating poor ventilation was the culprit.

Without fresh air from outside, “the infected diner was putting out infectious material, and there was nowhere for it to go,” he says. There is no known instance of a coronavirus transmission through an HVAC system in the United States, he notes.

So what systems are best?

According to experts, two functions of air-conditioning systems can help prevent the spread of a virus: Ventilation — fresh air coming in to the building from outside — and filtration, or removing small particles from the air.

Standard systems used in most commercial and public buildings, including restaurants, do both and “limit risk of aerosol transmission of covid-19,” Bahnfleth says.

The engineering society, which develops standards used in building codes around the country, is still recommending building owners take steps to further reduce risks. Those include increasing the amount of outside air being brought in, Bahnfleth says.

Under most current codes, a restaurant should replace all of its air with outside air about once every hour, or what’s called an “air exchange rate” of one. The society is recommending upping that to three times an hour, Lo notes.

The problem for diners is that it’s almost impossible to assess the technical specs of a restaurant’s HVAC system to understand the risk. “They shouldn’t have to do that,” Roy says. Instead, he suggests using “a reasonable-person standard.”

“If a place feels stuffy, maybe it’s not a great idea to stay there,” he says.

As they reopen dining rooms, some restaurants have touted their filtration or air “scrubbing” systems along with other measures meant to stop the virus’s spread. But some experts say such claims might be more about marketing than meaningful risk-reduction. “What you’re going to see is restaurants trying to distinguish themselves from each other, and a lot are going to go above and beyond what the science says is necessary,” Adalja says. “They are trying to entice people to come to their place.”

Where should diners sit inside?

The coronavirus might redefine what makes a table the best seat in the house. If you do decide to dine inside a restaurant, Lo suggests nabbing a seat by an open window if there is one; that’s the next-best thing to being outdoors. Bahnfleth, however, cautions that open windows create “unpredictable flow directions” — that is, while fresh air is coming into the room, air from inside has to go out somewhere, and that could be the window you’re sitting by.

Barring that, seek out a table that is near the AC register or vent where air is being pumped in and diffused around the space — that’s where you’ll find the most fresh air, Lo advises.

Though it seems counterintuitive to dine at a restaurant and avoid your fellow man, that’s exactly what you should aim for, whether you’re inside or out, experts agree. Sneezing and coughing can launch viral particles beyond the six feet being recommended for distancing, they say. Airborne transmission could mean they travel even farther. Most restaurants that are reopening are doing so at reduced capacity to prevent crowding.

The best seat, then, is the one that puts as much space as possible between you and other diners (at least those you’re not quarantining with). As Lo puts it, “Just try to stay away from other people — farther is likely safe
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Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:39 pm
by 6ftstick
Faucci says NO FOOTBALL THIS FALL

But he said masks didn't do any good/ Why do what he says?

Without football revenue most other school sports are doubtful

Re: All things Trump CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:37 pm
by DocBarrister
The United States just passed 120,000 deaths. We are well on our way to over 150,000 deaths by the end of August.

This is a tragedy without parallel since WWII.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

DocBarrister :?

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:49 pm
by ardilla secreta
Line of duty deaths for police officers 2020 to date

COVID 48
Gunfire 25
Auto 14

Maybe citizens should be wearing masks.

Re: All things Trump CoronaVirus

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:30 am
by kramerica.inc
DocBarrister wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:37 pm The United States just passed 120,000 deaths. We are well on our way to over 150,000 deaths by the end of August.

This is a tragedy without parallel since WWII.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

DocBarrister :?
The number are spiking!!!

Let’s hope Raz Simone has a medical tent with respirators in the CHAZ!

Re: All things Trump CoronaVirus

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:35 am
by DocBarrister
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:30 am
DocBarrister wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:37 pm The United States just passed 120,000 deaths. We are well on our way to over 150,000 deaths by the end of August.

This is a tragedy without parallel since WWII.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

DocBarrister :?
The number are spiking!!!

Let’s hope Raz Simone has a medical tent with respirators in the CHAZ!
They aren’t numbers.

They’re people with families and loved ones.

What is wrong with you?

DocBarrister

Re: All things CoronaVirus sucks!

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:18 am
by DMac
No lacrosse, baseball, etc, is just cruel!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQsE53YkVU
This girl is super fantastic.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:52 am
by CU88
I get a daily email with COVID updates, here are two from this mornings. Sadly, the hyperlinks, to specific articles, are not active. I think that you can subscribe here:
https://www.newamerica.org/internationa ... ily-brief/
(Yes, New America is a left leaning shop, but for the most part these are science based)

Individuals With Type A Blood May Be at Higher Risk for Severe COVID-19; Those With Type O at Lower Risk

A new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine confirmed that blood type may increase a person’s susceptibility to severe COVID-19. Researchers who looked at the “genes of thousands of patients in Europe found that those who had Type A blood were more likely to have severe disease while those with Type O were less likely” (CBS News). The study looked at 1,980 individuals from seven hospitals in Italy and Spain, in addition to “835 patients and 1255 control participants from Italy and 775 patients and 950 control participants from Spain were included in the final analysis” (New England Journal of Medicine). Variations in six genes were found to impact the chances of someone progressing to severe COVID-19, as well as specific blood types. Center for International Blood and Marrow Transplant Research chief Mary Horowitz said that of the four blood groups–A, B, AB, O–people with O are more likely to “recognize certain proteins as foreign, and that may extend to proteins on virus surfaces,” reports CBS News.

In an earlier brief, we noted that geneticists have been looking at human DNA to see if there are genetic predispositions to SARS-CoV-2 infection, and a new preprint manuscript out of Europe indicates there’s a “strong statistical link between genetic variations and Covid-19.” Researchers found two indicators that could increase infection, one of which is blood type. “Type A blood was linked to a 50 percent increase in the likelihood that a patient would need to get oxygen or to go on a ventilator” (NYT). 23andMe Inc. identified a “difference in a gene that influences a person’s blood type [that] can affect a person’s susceptibility to Covid-19,” reports Bloomberg. Results from 23andMe’s 750,000 participants found that “type O blood is especially protective against SARS-CoV-2.” Included in the 750,000 were 10,000 participants who identified that they tested positive for COVID-19. Type O blood makes an individual nine to 18 percent “less likely than individuals with other blood types to have tested positive for the virus.” There was little variance between other non-O blood types and an individual’s susceptibility to the coronavirus and subsequent disease.



Antibodies to Coronavirus May Start to Decline 2-3 Months After Infection, but Immunity May Continue Longer, Suggest Two New Studies in Nature

As scientists continue to investigate the body’s immune response to the coronavirus, in the search to determine the hallmarks of COVID-19 immunity and how long it might last, two new studies provide additional pieces of the puzzle, while highlighting the need for further research. Antibodies to the coronavirus start to decrease within two to three months after infection, scientists in China found after studying 74 COVID-19 patients, half of whom were symptomatic and half asymptomatic (Nature Medicine). However, even low levels of certain antibodies may be enough to neutralize the virus. In a separate study on 149 recovered COVID-19 patients, researchers found that their plasma had “rare but recurring” antibodies “with potent antiviral activity” that bound to the coronavirus’s spike protein, “suggesting that a vaccine designed to elicit such antibodies could be broadly effective” (Nature). Moreover, antibodies are not the whole story of immunity. The immune response includes T cells, which can destroy the virus by killing virus-infected cells, and, in people who have been infected, memory B cells can rapidly produce antibodies again if the body re-encounters the same virus (NYT).

As we’ve noted in previous briefs, infectious disease experts have theorized what immunity from the coronavirus might look like, and how long it will last, but they “still don’t know what potpourri of antibodies, cells, and other markers in a person’s blood will signify that protection,” writes STAT. Both of these studies point to a picture where antibodies to the coronavirus may not last as long in the body as antibodies to the other coronaviruses that cause severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), which can last for a year or longer. “These reports highlight the need to develop strong vaccines, because immunity that develops naturally during infection is suboptimal and short-lived in most people,” said Akiko Iwasaki, a viral immunologist at Yale University, commenting on the two studies to the New York Times, adding “We cannot rely on natural infection to achieve herd immunity.”

Re: All things CoronaVirus sucks!

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:15 am
by CU88
DMac wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:18 am No lacrosse, baseball, etc, is just cruel!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQsE53YkVU
This girl is super fantastic.
That is awesome, what a song for Pandemic Summer.

I sadly add this one, as we lost Vera Lynn today.

Vera Lynn, Singer Whose Wartime Ballads Lifted Britain, Dies at 103
Known as the “Forces’ Sweetheart,” Ms. Lynn performed sentimental songs that captured the affection of troops abroad and Britons at home.

Vera Lynn - We'll Meet Again (1943)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5C4meGkNyc

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:28 am
by DMac
That's too bad but I guess you really can't ask for much more than 103 years.
That scene is actually chilling when considering where those boys are off to.
Have listened to that a couple of hundred times when the old man put the
scratchy old record on the record player.

Yes, Amy Lee is just incredible...pretty much everything she does.

Re: All things CoronaVirus sucks!

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:30 am
by Kismet
CU88 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:15 am
DMac wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:18 am No lacrosse, baseball, etc, is just cruel!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQsE53YkVU
This girl is super fantastic.
That is awesome, what a song for Pandemic Summer.

I sadly add this one, as we lost Vera Lynn today.

Vera Lynn, Singer Whose Wartime Ballads Lifted Britain, Dies at 103
Known as the “Forces’ Sweetheart,” Ms. Lynn performed sentimental songs that captured the affection of troops abroad and Britons at home.

Vera Lynn - We'll Meet Again (1943)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5C4meGkNyc
Her rendition of that song also voiced the ending/credits of Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove, elegy to the Nuclear Age


Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:31 am
by Farfromgeneva
Anyone hear about this guy who refused to wear a Mask and started slinging BS con artist stuff just to argue with the crew? His arguments and lies put him squarely in the FOS category and selfish.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... board.html

Saw a picture on the news this am and he looks like he came straight out of the House of Slytheren.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:05 pm
by CU88
Maybe time to change the name of this thread to "Florida CoronaVirus"?


The outbreak occurred at the Phillies spring training facility in Clearwater, Florida.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/phil ... personnel/



The Sports Network in Canada broke the news Friday afternoon that the Tampa Bay Lightning had to “temporarily close its training facilities” after “multiple” players tested positive for COVID-19.
https://www.wfla.com/sports/tampa-bay-l ... ports-say/

Re: All things Florida CoronaVirus

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:35 pm
by ardilla secreta
So have the TO Blue Jays. Expect more, much more. My expectation is the NFL will try to start the season, but suspend after a few weeks as the virus spreads.