The Nation's Financial Condition

[wahoomurf]

.. ...that check barely covers my taxes. My portfolio's been +/- 6 figures this wk. F China. We'll adapt & survive.

Some of us worry about the USA we are going to leave behind, must be nice to not care...

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

I care more about our long term financial security & the impact on workers, than on the short term damage to my personal wealth.
If i didn't, I'd be braying with the goats over the "trade war" market fluctuations.

Bullsh*t. I've been telling you about how Trump not managing this trade war has affected flyover Americans. Farmers. Suicide. Trump's forgotten voters who haven't enjoyed the last 20 years like you and I have.

Your response---and the response of several other posters----is to make fun of this, call us chicken little, and braying goats.

You have made fun of me every step of the way. Where is Trump when it comes to helping these people find other markets for their goods? Where's the help? I"ve told you EXACTLY what Trump should be doing to help us prepare for a cessation of trade with China. Instead of saying "yep, Trump dropped the ball on this, and as a result, Americans are suffering unnecessarily".....

....you come back with braying goats.

Isn't this old salt person the guy who gave an analysis, both financial and strategic, encouraging Trump to seriously consider buying Greenland. Call me I would prefer that the money be spent giving THE SOUTHERN FRIED CHILDREN, (those disgusting rapists, drug runners, and sex mules, better food & water, warm blankets, toothpaste, toilet paper, non-grungy billets and perhaps,if there's re a few shekels to spare, reunite them with their parents .

I served with some USNA grads. Called themselves goats. I get wistful and angry when I see the word GOAT in the same paragraph as the word TRUMP. Those goats were all about honor, duty and were focused on getting the task accomplished. This TRUMP guy does not come close to possessing any of the aforementioned qualities that made those chaps, IMHO, the best of the best.

Trump got the Greenland idea from this Harvard educated lawyer :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cotton
On January 11, 2005, Cotton enlisted in the U.S. Army.[9] Cotton declined offers to serve in the Army J.A.G. Corps and instead volunteered for the infantry. Cotton had resolved to serve as an Army infantryman in his third year of law school while watching live news coverage of the September 11 attacks, and had begun a regimen of physical exercise and studying military history.[10] In March 2005, he entered Officer Candidate School, and in June 2005 was commissioned a second lieutenant of infantry.[11]

In May 2006, Cotton was deployed to Baghdad as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom as a platoon leader with the 101st Airborne Division. In Iraq, he led a 41-man air assault infantry platoon in the 506th Infantry Regiment, and planned and performed daily combat patrols.[11] In December 2006, Cotton was promoted to first lieutenant. He was assigned as a platoon leader for the 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard) at Fort Myer, Virginia.[12] In October 2008, Cotton was deployed to eastern Afghanistan. He was assigned within the Train Advise Assist Command – East at its Gamberi forward operating base (FOB) in Laghman Province as the Operations Officer of a Provincial Reconstruction Team, where he planned daily counter-insurgency and reconstruction operations.[11] His 11-month deployment ended on July 20, 2009 and he returned from Afghanistan.[11] He then returned to farming his family ranch.[13]

In July 2010, Cotton transferred to the United States Army Reserve. His military record shows his final discharge from the U.S. Army Reserve was in May 2013; he was awarded the Bronze Star Medal and earned a Ranger Tab, Combat Infantryman Badge, Parachutist Badge, Air Assault Badge, Afghanistan Campaign Medal, and Iraq Campaign Medal.[11][14][15]

Trump's Sec of State & Sec of Def are West Point grads & veterans who served honorably.
They volunteered to serve in his cabinet & pursue his policies.
Duty, Honor, Country

Impressive. Are Cotton and the chaps you mentioned, all HARVARD EDUCATED LAWYERS? They appear to have impressive service records. What is their GREENLAND connection? Perchance are any of these chaps going to run for POTUS? If so will you become their campaign manager?

The "curious" positioning of your post could lead one to believe you were trying to trump (fully intended) the prior posters comment praising some brave and honorable men with who he served?Not even you could sink that low. I for one have respect for any man or women that put on a uniform and served our country. How about you?

[old salt]

.. ...that check barely covers my taxes. My portfolio's been +/- 6 figures this wk. F China. We'll adapt & survive.

Some of us worry about the USA we are going to leave behind, must be nice to not care...

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

I care more about our long term financial security & the impact on workers, than on the short term damage to my personal wealth.
If i didn't, I'd be braying with the goats over the "trade war" market fluctuations.

Bullsh*t. I've been telling you about how Trump not managing this trade war has affected flyover Americans. Farmers. Suicide. Trump's forgotten voters who haven't enjoyed the last 20 years like you and I have.

Your response---and the response of several other posters----is to make fun of this, call us chicken little, and braying goats.

You have made fun of me every step of the way. Where is Trump when it comes to helping these people find other markets for their goods? Where's the help? I"ve told you EXACTLY what Trump should be doing to help us prepare for a cessation of trade with China. Instead of saying "yep, Trump dropped the ball on this, and as a result, Americans are suffering unnecessarily".....

....you come back with braying goats.

Isn't this old salt person the guy who gave an analysis, both financial and strategic, encouraging Trump to seriously consider buying Greenland. Call me I would prefer that the money be spent giving THE SOUTHERN FRIED CHILDREN, (those disgusting rapists, drug runners, and sex mules, better food & water, warm blankets, toothpaste, toilet paper, non-grungy billets and perhaps,if there's re a few shekels to spare, reunite them with their parents .

I served with some USNA grads. Called themselves goats. I get wistful and angry when I see the word GOAT in the same paragraph as the word TRUMP. Those goats were all about honor, duty and were focused on getting the task accomplished. This TRUMP guy does not come close to possessing any of the aforementioned qualities that made those chaps, IMHO, the best of the best.

Trump got the Greenland idea from this Harvard educated lawyer :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cotton
On January 11, 2005, Cotton enlisted in the U.S. Army.[9] Cotton declined offers to serve in the Army J.A.G. Corps and instead volunteered for the infantry. Cotton had resolved to serve as an Army infantryman in his third year of law school while watching live news coverage of the September 11 attacks, and had begun a regimen of physical exercise and studying military history.[10] In March 2005, he entered Officer Candidate School, and in June 2005 was commissioned a second lieutenant of infantry.[11]

In May 2006, Cotton was deployed to Baghdad as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom as a platoon leader with the 101st Airborne Division. In Iraq, he led a 41-man air assault infantry platoon in the 506th Infantry Regiment, and planned and performed daily combat patrols.[11] In December 2006, Cotton was promoted to first lieutenant. He was assigned as a platoon leader for the 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard) at Fort Myer, Virginia.[12] In October 2008, Cotton was deployed to eastern Afghanistan. He was assigned within the Train Advise Assist Command – East at its Gamberi forward operating base (FOB) in Laghman Province as the Operations Officer of a Provincial Reconstruction Team, where he planned daily counter-insurgency and reconstruction operations.[11] His 11-month deployment ended on July 20, 2009 and he returned from Afghanistan.[11] He then returned to farming his family ranch.[13]

In July 2010, Cotton transferred to the United States Army Reserve. His military record shows his final discharge from the U.S. Army Reserve was in May 2013; he was awarded the Bronze Star Medal and earned a Ranger Tab, Combat Infantryman Badge, Parachutist Badge, Air Assault Badge, Afghanistan Campaign Medal, and Iraq Campaign Medal.[11][14][15]

Trump's Sec of State & Sec of Def are West Point grads & veterans who served honorably.
They volunteered to serve in his cabinet & pursue his policies.
Duty, Honor, Country

Impressive. Are Cotton and the chaps you mentioned, all HARVARD EDUCATED LAWYERS? They appear to have impressive service records. What is their GREENLAND connection? Perchance are any of these chaps going to run for POTUS? If so will you become their campaign manager?

The "curious" positioning of your post could lead one to believe you were trying to trump (fully intended) the prior posters comment praising some brave and honorable men with who he served?Not even you could sink that low. I for one have respect for any man or women that put on a uniform and served our country. How about you?

Cotton's the guy who gave Trump the Greenland idea.
No need to be wistful & angry about goats.
The other 2 are service academy grads. Mules not goats.
All 3 served honorably.

[old salt]

Crying? Try laughing at your responses because you don't believe what you're writing.

You're being stubborn. You're wrong. Period. A sitting President is tweeting our Trade "strategy". And you're defending it. It's ridiculous.

Just stop it. You don't believe a word you are typing.

I've made my position clear -- taking a stand vs China will cause some short term pain for all of us, to claw back some of what we've given up.

That's a stupid position, and you know it. Why would we intentionally take short term economic pain with NO PLAN to help find US exporters and importers other markets and supply chains?

And what happens when China says "no deal"? Then there's no "clawing back", as you put it. Then were only left with pointless economic damage that we weren't prepared for......with the cherry on top that is a Cold War.

And we're not prepared for the economic damage, or a Cold War.

And I've told you a dozen times now that all Trump needs to do to get me on board (even today) is to announce: "I've directed that $1 Billion be placed in various Federal Departments, and Federal officials will leave our shores with all relevant US Trade groups to find new markets for our goods, and new supply chains. The government is here to help, and to ensure Americans win no matter what"

That's it. He does that, I'm behind him. Use our massive GDP advantage to stick it to the Chinese. Sign me up. Do you have any idea what would happen to my business if Trump gave my brother free airfare and lodging to find distribution points around the world?

And what message would that send to China? "Holy cow, this guy is serious, and US companies are finding new suppliers and buyers with each passing day".

Trump started this mess, and people need help.

We'll all survive.

That's a non-statement. If I had come back with that statement when Obama pulled of Iraq, you would have lost your mind. Instead, you gave dozens of reasons why leaving too soon was bad. Because the way we do things matters. Where'd that guy go? I'd like to have him back on this forum....

We've got to break our addiction to stolen Chinese junk & fentanyl.

Great. I'm on board. What's the plan on how to do that best? Because the guy you are pretending to defend doesn't have a plan for how to do that.

Trump's not going tweet by tweet. He's been warning that he'd do this since he came down the escalator.
You just refused to believe him.
As for me -- I've been for this since Perot & Buchanan campaigned on it in the '90's.

Look at the economic sacrifices this nation made to win WW II, & look how we came out the other end.
We can adapt, survive, & emerg stronger & more secure for the long haul for having made the sacrifice.

[old salt]

Lowering the payroll tax sounds great!

But how are we gonna pay for it? Ooh, how about taxing capital gains like labor, or going back to higher taxes on the wealthy like when our economy was booming in the 50's.

Because they're not labor. For individual private investors, they're long term investments of earnings which were already taxed once as labor.
For traders whose labor is trading, short term cap gains are already taxed as labor.
Carried interest should be taxed like labor.

Sure the investment was already taxed, but the earnings weren't. That's new income.

For traders (and many wealthy families) whose labor is trading and holding onto things longer than a year, capital gains aren't taxed as labor.

So increase the holding time from 1 yr to 3 yrs (or even 5 yrs) to qualify for the lower long term cap gain rate,
to encourage long term savings & investment, & lessen end-of-life defaulting to Medicaid spend down limits.

[a fan]

Trump's not going tweet by tweet.

Yes. He is.

He's been warning that he'd do this since he came down the escalator.

For a guy who lectures the board almost weekly about the importance of tactics, you want to tell me here that the way strategies are executed don't matter when in comes to this Trade War?

Come on, man. You're not being honest here.

Look at the economic sacrifices this nation made to win WW II, & look how we came out the other end.

That's a way to justify any move my any President. This is a pointless sentiment used to justify ANYTHING.

Pick something Obama did that you didn't like. There are thousand to choose from, as you very well know. No matter what it is, we emerged just fine here in 2019. Earth is still spinning, no?

I just mentioned his decision to leave Iraq. You hated that, right? Well, guess what: "look how we came out the other end." Everything is fine, and the ME is no more or less of a mess than it was before 1990.

So does that mean Obama's decisions were right? And you agree with his decisions?

This is why I think you're not being intellectually honest about anything that surrounds Trump.

We can adapt, survive, & emerg stronger & more secure for the long haul for having made the sacrifice.

Paint me a picture. What is it that you think is going to happen? Describe what you think Trump's "win" will look like.

[old salt]

I don't have the time or patience to go down your rabbit hole on this one, trying to compare everything to what Obama did & doing apples to hand grenade analogies. Stop telling me what I think. You clearly don't know. I agree on playing hardball with China, right now, (& so do a lot of Dems who can't admit it for political reasons). If Trump doesn't do it, no one will. Obama comparisons are irrelevant. Stay tuned & see how it plays out. We'll be ok.

[Trinity]

Deutsche Bank was fined $16 million by the SEC yesterday for hiring family members of Russian & Chinese state owned companies, creating false books, as well.

[a fan]

.. ...that check barely covers my taxes. My portfolio's been +/- 6 figures this wk. F China. We'll adapt & survive.

Some of us worry about the USA we are going to leave behind, must be nice to not care...

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

I care more about our long term financial security & the impact on workers, than on the short term damage to my personal wealth.
If i didn't, I'd be braying with the goats over the "trade war" market fluctuations.

Bullsh*t. I've been telling you about how Trump not managing this trade war has affected flyover Americans. Farmers. Suicide. Trump's forgotten voters who haven't enjoyed the last 20 years like you and I have.

But then when Trump lightens up a little it's "HE CAVED!" So which is it a fan? You seem confused...

You think I'm confused? Your problem is that any time we're discussing Trump, you put your brain the shelf.

You and old salt need to stop falling all over yourselves to defend Trump's stupidity. It's not a good look for either of you.

But since you want to pretend that you're too stupid to understand my point, I'll spell it out for you.


The issue is HOW Trump is "negotiating".


So the problem, to answer your fake question, is that Trump signaled to China that he would be adding more tariffs at such and such a date. And when that date arrived, Trump instead said that he wouldn't do that, and told reporters (?!?!) that he didn't want Americans to suffer over the holidays.

What the hell kind of idiotic negotiation tactic is this? And you and old salt are going to pretend that you're so drooling-ly moronic that you don't understand that Trump signaled the weakness of the US position by pulling back on the tariffs----and then telling the media that this war is hurting the American consumer? Come on. Neither of you are this dumb.

The CORRECT way to have handled this---assuming Trump is already up to his eyebrows in this mess--- is for Trump to have SAID NOTHING. In other words, don't threaten sanctions. Enact them, or don't. That way, if he changes his mind, China doesn't know his hand.

You and old salt understood this concept just fine when a guy with a little D by his name was in office. Remember Obama's "red line?" Ahhhh...the light bulb just went on, didn't it? Trump made a threat, and then didn't follow through. THAT is the problem. Don't make a threat, and not follow through. This signals weakness. You're better off saying nothing at all.

But go ahead and keep pretending you support the way Trump is handling this Trade War. I don't believe you. You're not this stupid. Not even close. You and old salt keep pretending that you think posters are upset about the WHAT, instead of the HOW.

In other words, no one here is upset that Trump is standing up to China (that's the WHAT). What we are upset about, is HOW he is standing up to China. A Junior High School United Nations team could come up with a better strategy and better tactics than Trump has used thus far.

[old salt]

Right. Like the tactics used by all previous Presidents to stand up to China on trade ..
Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[a fan]

Dude, you've got nowhere to go here. You're wrong. Period. What's more, I told you the right way to handle it, so out goes your "is this just complaining to complain" nonsense.

When Obama did stuff, you had pages and pages and pages of telling him how anything and everything he did was wrong. For 8 years, on a weekly basis. Criticism after criticism. Unrelenting.

And now that a Republican is in office, you think posters are so stupid that they're going to buy your sudden transformation into a wake and bake Hippie telling us "it'll all work out maaaaaan" when it comes to criticizing our leaders.


Sell it somewhere else.

[a fan]

Right. Like the tactics used by all previous Presidents to stand up to China on trade ..

And btw, look at the scoreboard, the only thing that matters.

Using Trump's tactics, Is our trade deficit with China better or worse? It's worse.

Is China still stealing US Intellectual property? Yep.

So in other words, China is lighting up the scoreboard with Trump on the field.


So you can take your "don't knock it until you tried" it and.......

[old salt]

Blah, blah, blah. All or nothing. Instant gratification or complete failure.

Comparing a warning to Syria to not use chem weapons, to getting China to change it's predatory trade tactics, is just plain stupid & a waste of time.

A LOT of US citizens support what Trump is trying to do with China & trade, & I'm one of them.

We won't get everything we want & it will take time to accomplish.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Blah, blah, blah. All or nothing. Instant gratification or complete failure.

Comparing a warning to Syria to not use chem weapons, to getting China to change it's predatory trade tactics, is just plain stupid & a waste of time.

A LOT of US citizens support what Trump is trying to do with China & trade, & I'm one of them.

We won't get everything we want & it will take time to accomplish.

It’s not what he is trying..... It’s the execution that’s the problem. TPP would have given Trump more leverage. Everyone wants to win a battle but poor tactics are just that...poor tactics no matter how much you want to win.

[a fan]

Blah, blah, blah. All or nothing. Instant gratification or complete failure.

Yeah, that's what this is.

YOU are the all or nothing guy when it comes to Trump. Everything he does is right. And any criticism is wrong. I wish I had known this was coming from you when we elected a Republican President. I would have been insufferable to all your Obama rants for all those years.

"Calm down, old salt, everything Obama does is going to work out, man. We will survive as a nation, and adapt----what's with all your nonstop criticisms duuuude?"

Comparing a warning to Syria to not use chem weapons, to getting China to change it's predatory trade tactics, is just plain stupid & a waste of time.

Oh FFS, I'm comparing negotiating tactics. And those tactics are the same, regardless of what you are negotiating for. Trump set himself up to blink, like the fool that he is. But you don't want to acknowledge that, so out come the excuses. "That's different" should be your screen name.

A LOT of US citizens support what Trump is trying to do with China & trade, & I'm one of them.

And I supported Obama getting the troops out of Iraq. But that didn't mean that I was so freaking pigheaded that I wouldn't listen to you as to to THE BEST WAY for Obama to get our troops out.

When you hit Obama over that, I should have responded that HOW Obama gets them out doesn't matter. And you should stop worrying, everything will be fine, and offered you a hit from my bong.

We won't get everything we want & it will take time to accomplish.

Jeezus, it still hasn't occurred to you that we might get nothing from them. Zero.

Next level stubbornness. Bravo.

[a fan]

Blah, blah, blah. All or nothing. Instant gratification or complete failure.

Comparing a warning to Syria to not use chem weapons, to getting China to change it's predatory trade tactics, is just plain stupid & a waste of time.

A LOT of US citizens support what Trump is trying to do with China & trade, & I'm one of them.

We won't get everything we want & it will take time to accomplish.

It’s not what he is trying..... It’s the execution that’s the problem. TPP would have given Trump more leverage. Everyone wants to win a battle but poor tactics are just that...poor tactics no matter how much you want to win.

You don't get it. You can't criticize Trump under any circumstances. It will give old salt a headache, and we can't have that. Old Salt needs to go to sleep every night knowing that Trump is beyond criticism, and has performed flawlessly every day. So ease up. Right?

[runrussellrun]

Right. Like the tactics used by all previous Presidents to stand up to China on trade ..

And btw, look at the scoreboard, the only thing that matters.

Using Trump's tactics, Is our trade deficit with China better or worse? It's worse. For now. Princeton used to suck at lacrosse.

Is China still stealing US Intellectual property? Yep. TAATS....why would you expect them to do anything about it?

So in other words, China is lighting up the scoreboard with Trump on the field. Bacigalupo see more shots or less, falling asleep while watching the offense win a NCAA championship.

So you can take your "don't knock it until you tried" it and.......

Seriously, what is the commie government, they still are, write?, gonna do? Sell their bonds.......umm.......ummmm......ok. ??????

Weird, my dad predicted the next great war would be with China. This was in late 1980's. He was right about me being a no good bum, he's gotta be right about this too.

[a fan]

Seriously, what is the commie government, they still are, write?, gonna do? Sell their bonds.......umm.......ummmm......ok. ??????

Fascist, not commie. They're going to do what ALL fascist governments do: whatever they damn well please, and the people can't do anything to stop them. Trumpfans don't want to hear this, and think that China feels economic pain the same way that America does.

You, of all people, should understand this. Trump thinks that they'll cave when the Chinese people are suffering. Do you seriously not understand how ridiculous of thought that is? Chinese leadership doesn't care if it's people see a 1% Gdp increase instead of a 6% GDP increase. If they did, they would have given Trump his pointless, token win by giving him some stupid concession so that Trumpfans can say "hurray", and China can be left alone.

Americans, meanwhile, would rebel if you took netflix away for a month.

Weird, my dad predicted the next great war would be with China. This was in late 1980's. He was right about me being a no good bum, he's gotta be right about this too.

It hasn't occurred to Trump supporters that China might very well simply stop trading with America. I'd put that at a coin flip right now.

And that outcome doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that our nation is UNPREPARED for that scenario. So we're suffering economic damage because Trump fans are too far up Trump's butt to demand that Trump does a little----just a little----- to help American businesses find other markets and supply chains.

The mere mention of this suggestion throws old salt into fits, because I'm Mr. "all or nothing", and I'm not allowed to suggest that the Federal government can help damaged businesses find new points of sale, or new places to buy computer components if the Chinese tell us to get lost.

What old salt thinks I'm supposed to do is sit back and relax, because Trump's got it all handled.

What I'm actually doing is working with my trade groups to get the dumb*ss Republicans in charge to help American businesses fix billions in economic damage from a guy who's tweets are putting people out of work.

[runrussellrun]

Seriously, what is the commie government, they still are, write?, gonna do? Sell their bonds.......umm.......ummmm......ok. ??????

Fascist, not commie. They're going to do what ALL fascist governments do: whatever they damn well please, and the people can't do anything to stop them. They could, if they were armed. It's still legal to own a MaDuce in the USA Tank killer. Trumpfans don't want to hear this, and think that China feels economic pain the same way that America does.

You, of all people, should understand this. but of course, kind sir Trump thinks that they'll cave when the Chinese people are suffering. Do you seriously not understand how ridiculous of thought that is? Chinese leadership doesn't care if it's people see a 1% Gdp increase instead of a 6% GDP increase. If they did, they would have given Trump his pointless, token win by giving him some stupid concession so that Trumpfans can say "hurray", and China can be left alone.

Americans, meanwhile, would rebel if you took netflix away for a month.

Weird, my dad predicted the next great war would be with China. This was in late 1980's. He was right about me being a no good bum, he's gotta be right about this too.

It hasn't occurred to Trump supporters that China might very well simply stop trading with America. I'd put that at a coin flip right now.

And that outcome doesn't bother me. Real war, death, carnage you know, profits. Not a trade war. What bothers me is that our nation is UNPREPARED for that scenario. So we're suffering economic damage because Trump fans are too far up Trump's butt to demand that Trump does a little----just a little----- to help American businesses find other markets and supply chains.

The mere mention of this suggestion throws old salt into fits, because I'm Mr. "all or nothing", and I'm not allowed to suggest that the Federal government can help damaged businesses find new points of sale, or new places to buy computer components if the Chinese tell us to get lost.

What old salt thinks I'm supposed to do is sit back and relax, because Trump's got it all handled.

What I'm actually doing is working with my trade groups to get the dumb*ss Republicans in charge to help American businesses fix billions in economic damage from a guy who's tweets are putting people out of work.

[old salt]

Threatening Assad with air strikes if he uses CW is just like using tariffs in a trade war with China. Okie Dokie.

If the G7 is nervous, they can join us & hold China to the WTO rules.

[a fan]

Threatening Assad with air strikes if he uses CW is just like using tariffs in a trade war with China. Okie Dokie.

Atta boy. Keep pretending you're not smart enough to get my point.

Making a threat and then not backing it up when your bluff is called signals weakness. You understood that----and wouldn't shut up about it-------when Obama did it.

Now you're pretending you don't understand that concept when Trump does it.

And no one is buying it here.