January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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Farfromgeneva
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

youthathletics wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:48 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:35 am
youthathletics wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:27 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:01 am For more than a year now, with tacit and explicit support from their party’s national leaders, state Republican operatives have been building an apparatus of election theft.
Not entirely true:
~ https://governor.maryland.gov/redistricting-reform/
~ https://www.marylandmatters.org/2021/11 ... live-long/
~ https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1823599244484674
Well the following sentence goes on to list the states they are focused on and doesn’t include maryland. I don’t think it’s disingenuous to write the language of the sentence you cut out in the manner that they did as a characterization of a broad based movement which doesn’t mean universal to anyone who thinks (I believe you do think but want to point this out to discredit the entirety of it but that’s my interpretation without anymore explicit feedback from you for now)
Go easy on the coffee FFG, I only snipped that point to draw a distinction in Maryland, nothing more. What is disingenuous, if you want to pick nits, is that they did not mention what Maryland was attempting to do...to correct the leaning.
If you read what I wrote I didn’t say you were disingenuous I said their statement wasn’t disingenuous by excluding Maryland. We all know that Maryland is the greatest state in human history and Hopkins is greater than all the tribes that played lacrosse 200+Yrs ago before let alone us measly Americans. And crab cakes are amazing. And old bay is the shizz. It doesn’t need to be started everywhere all the time. Just like Caitlyn Jenner can’t do everything as explained around the 2:45 mark of this clip

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk

BTW I do drink a sh*t ton of coffee every morning. Basically from like 5-5:30 until 10am…
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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dislaxxic
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

'Absolute liars': Ex-D.C. Guard official says generals lied to Congress about Jan. 6

The brother of disgraced General Michael Flynn is involved. Check it out...

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

DC NG JAG Colonel takes issue with DoD IG report on Jan 6 Pentagon response.

This JAG lawyer was the legal adviser to the then DC NG Commander who is now the House Sergeant at Arms.

MDLF76 will love this show trial script. It feeds his conspiracy theory.
This well be fodder for blockbuster prime time tv House Select Comm hearings.

It is CYA for DC Mayor & DC NG Commander failure to request adequate DC NG deployment during advance planning which was offered & encouraged by DoD.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/0 ... ial-523777
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dislaxxic
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

Some people, trumpists most especially, swallow lies hook, line and sinker...

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:53 pm DC NG JAG Colonel takes issue with DoD IG report on Jan 6 Pentagon response.

This JAG lawyer was the legal adviser to the then DC NG Commander who is now the House Sergeant at Arms.

MDLF76 will love this show trial script. It feeds his conspiracy theory.
This well be fodder for blockbuster prime time tv House Select Comm hearings.

It is CYA for DC Mayor & DC NG Commander failure to request adequate DC NG deployment during advance planning which was offered & encouraged by DoD.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/0 ... ial-523777
I've only been following this stuff through these recent posts, but I'd agree that they certainly bring back the hairy questions of what did they know and when did they know it...and why did it take so long once they did know?

It's always felt (to me) like the response took too long, longer than it absolutely needed to take, based on what anyone could see on their own TV screens, much less the timelines that had previously been reported...and now we're seeing more detail than what the DoD put forward. And, painfully, it really does look like they were not telling us everything, on purpose, defensively. Ugh.

Now, whether this some big nefarious scheme, I very much doubt it, but it does look like there was some very real bungling and foot dragging by some of those involved, and at least IMO it's not unfair to want to know why. Including whether there was some sense that these white folks carrying Trump and American flags surely couldn't actually be violent...

I do also agree that the earlier reluctance by the Mayor etc to ask for the National Guard to be armed and ready, on the street, proved to be a mistake, but I also recall, in real time in the days leading up to Jan 6 and that day, very much worrying that what Trump actually wanted was to have a violent clash, necessitating a declaration of martial law...and in the fog to claim it was Antifa fighting the police and National Guard, not Big Lie supporters. Martial law being the objective. I'm still not so sure that wasn't the game plan amongst the 'war room' types and Trump.

But I have much more difficulty with believing the military folks were actually in the know.
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

If Trump wanted to declare martial law, he would have wanted the NG deployed to the streets of DC as soon as possible, in as great a number as possible. They report to him.

Any concerns voiced within DoD about optics would have been to avoid feeding that perception, as they had in the June DC riots.

It will be interesting to see who the Select Comm puts on tv. Will both sides of this issue be heard ?

I don't expect Cheney to demand hearing from both sides, but I hope Kinzinger does.
As a serving Guardsman himself, he's the one bast qualified to drill down on this.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:29 pm If Trump wanted to declare martial law, he would have wanted the NG deployed to the streets of DC as soon as possible, in as great a number as possible. They report to him.

Right, which may have been part of why the Mayor didn't want an armed military force in the streets as a target. Remember, Trump was asking for the NG to be armed and in force. That could well have spooked those who didn't want that outcome.

Any concerns voiced within DoD about optics would have been to avoid feeding that perception, as they had in the June DC riots.

sure, assuming that the folks voicing those concerns in the days leading weren't involved in such a plan, indeed would have balked at such a plan if asked. But voicing it as the attack went down I read quite differently...that sounds much more like an excuse when folks are pleading for the help. Seems to me that if Trump and the war room contingent were thinking about martial law earlier, they may well have realized by Jan 6 the only way that was going to happen was if the insurrectionists actually broke through and started killing Reps and Senators and the VP...otherwise, it wasn't gonna happen because of a direct conflict with the NG wasn't available.

It will be interesting to see who the Select Comm puts on tv. Will both sides of this issue be heard ?

I don't expect Cheney to demand hearing from both sides, but I hope Kinzinger does.
As a serving Guardsman himself, he's the one bast qualified to drill down on this.
Not sure what "sides" you mean.
Seriously, the question is not a "sides" issue unless there really was an attempt to engineer the insurrection and, as part of that, to withhold support from the NG (or conversely to use them in a martial law game plan). Seems to me that's worth finding out.

But assuming the military wasn't actually complicit, the only 'side' is to find out exactly what went down and is there anything that could be done differently for a future such event. Not sure what "sides" would be "both" on that question...I mean, who's not in favor of making sure a more dangerously armed effort in the future doesn't succeed???

I suppose there's some additional issue as to why the military was not more forthcoming about the facts and timeline, who was 'in the room' etc, and sure, that's important, but again what "side" wouldn't be questioned and be able to "tell their side"?
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by PizzaSnake »

dislaxxic wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:38 pm 'Absolute liars': Ex-D.C. Guard official says generals lied to Congress about Jan. 6

The brother of disgraced General Michael Flynn is involved. Check it out...

..
Three men say they’re Jesus; at least two of them are liars.

My money’s on Piatt and Chuckie Flynn not being Jeebus, not sure about Matthews.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:28 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:29 pm If Trump wanted to declare martial law, he would have wanted the NG deployed to the streets of DC as soon as possible, in as great a number as possible. They report to him.

Right, which may have been part of why the Mayor didn't want an armed military force in the streets as a target. Remember, Trump was asking for the NG to be armed and in force. That could well have spooked those who didn't want that outcome.
...or that it would highlight her hestitancy.
In the advance preps for Jan 6th & in the response to the urgent request on Jan 6th, DoD's recommendation was unarmed NG replacing DC police directing traffic so more police could clear the Capitol of rioters.


Any concerns voiced within DoD about optics would have been to avoid feeding that perception, as they had in the June DC riots.

sure, assuming that the folks voicing those concerns in the days leading weren't involved in such a plan (...it was Mike Flynn acting through his little brother Charlie), indeed would have balked at such a plan if asked. But voicing it as the attack went down I read quite differently...that sounds much more like an excuse when folks are pleading for the help. ...or it might have been their considered military opinion as the quickest way to get qualified, equipped & trained relief to the Capitol asap. It's a lot easier to train & equip NG troops for directing traffic than for being armed & clearing a building, on the fly, with no advance prep. Guardsmen & Police are not interchangeable in that role. I'm anxious to see specific details on how ready the DC NG were to deploy, on short notice, how soon/how many could get there & how they would have been used in this specific situation. The CP command center had "lost the bubble". They were not able to effectively direct the forces they had.
Seems to me that if Trump and the war room contingent were thinking about martial law earlier, they may well have realized by Jan 6 the only way that was going to happen was if the insurrectionists actually broke through and started killing Reps and Senators and the VP...otherwise, it wasn't gonna happen because of a direct conflict with the NG wasn't available. So that theory is that the war room plotters convinced Trump to delay the NG deployment until Congress members were captured &/or killed ? Interesting.

It will be interesting to see who the Select Comm puts on tv. Will both sides of this issue be heard ?

I don't expect Cheney to demand hearing from both sides, but I hope Kinzinger does.
As a serving Guardsman himself, he's the one bast qualified to drill down on this.
Not sure what "sides" you mean. DoD's version of events or the DC NG dissenters version of events.
Seriously, the question is not a "sides" issue unless there really was an attempt to engineer the insurrection and, as part of that, to withhold support from the NG (or conversely to use them in a martial law game plan). Seems to me that's worth finding out. Agree. I want to find out if the DoD IG is lying or the DC NG dissenters are CYA,

But assuming the military wasn't actually complicit, the only 'side' is to find out exactly what went down and is there anything that could be done differently for a future such event. Not sure what "sides" would be "both" on that question...I mean, who's not in favor of making sure a more dangerously armed effort in the future doesn't succeed??? There was plenty that could have been done, IN ADVANCE, just like they do for other NSSE events, & to have the fortitude to deal more forcefully & quickly with 1st Amendment event "peaceful protests" which are likely to devolve into mob riots. Like Trump & Barr did last summer.

I suppose there's some additional issue as to why the military was not more forthcoming about the facts and timeline, who was 'in the room' etc, and sure, that's important, but again what "side" wouldn't be questioned and be able to "tell their side"?
Look at the committee membershlp. They might only want the public to hear the DC NG version. They can say that DoD already testified before other committees. Which version better supports the Trump insurrection narrative ? Let's see how Cheney & Kinzinger represent the (R) caucus position. Watch how this DC NG 'whistlebower" memo becomes a narrative.
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

OK. I skimmed the DC NG JAG's 36 pg memo. Excerpted below are key portions which illustrate the unwieldy, overly-politicized decision-making chain for an unplanned, impromptu deployment of the DC NG. There were elected & appointed political officials (DC Mayor & SecArmy) running around like headless chickens & playing the ultimate telephone game. All too concerned with the political blowback from any decision made, rather than briefing each other on what was needed & what could be done.

That's why these plans are best made in advance & if they must be impromptu, must be de-politicized. The threat by the Mayor to call a press conf to inform the public that DoD refused to deploy the NG blew things up. That prompted Sec McCarthy to go to the Mayor to prevent her threatened press conf, then to do the press conf with her, all delaying the approval of the impromptu "plan" by the SecDef, who says he had already delegated the approval, not needing to see a "plan".

I'm not sure either version is 100% accurate when you have so many people trying to recall who said what/when, during a panicked, sometimes contentious conference call. Threat's like the Mayor to go on tv did not help, whether or not she made that threat or one of her staff made the threat. That's what's called "rolling a sweat grenade" into the middle of a tactical planning session.

I'm not sure we'll ever get a 100% accurate account. Here are the key portions, imho :

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017d ... da79e90000

At roughly 2:30PM on January 6, 2021, Dr. Christopher Rodriguez, Director of the District of Columbia Homeland Security and Emergency
Management Agency (DCHSEMA) established a telephone bridge and invited MG Walker, Secretary of the Army, Ryan McCarthy, MPD Chief Robert Contee, USCP Chief Steve Sund, D.C. Deputy Mayor Dr. Roger Mitchell and U.S. Secret Service Uniformed Division Chief Thomas Sullivan to join. Conference call participants were informed that Secretary McCarthy was not available for the conference call as he had gone to see the Acting Secretary of Defense.

McCarthy did not participate in the call. However, Lieutenant General Walter Piatt, Director of
the Army Staff and Lieutenant General Charles Flynn, the Army’s Deputy Chief of Staff for
Operations, were both on the call. As was Colonel John Lubas, Executive Officer to the
Secretary of the Army. Additionally, Brigadier General Aaron Dean, the Adjutant General of the
D.C. National Guard, Colonel Earl Matthews, Staff Judge Advocate of the D.C. National Guard,
Command Sergeant Major Michael Brooks, the DCNG Senior Enlisted Advisor, and 1St
Lieutenant Timothy Nick, MG Walker’s aide-de-camp, all joined MG Walker in his office at the
D.C. Armory for this 2:30 p.m. conference call.

During the 2:30PM conference call, Chief Sund of the USCP pleaded for the immediate
support of the D.C. National Guard at the U.S. Capitol as the security perimeter at the Capitol
was being breached at that very moment. Chief Contee reinforced Chief Sund’s request. Chief
Contee asked Chief Sund aloud if he was requesting immediate D.C. National Guard support at
the Capitol. Chief Sund replied “Yes”. Chief Contee then asked LTG Piatt if the D.C. Guard
would be sent to the Capitol. LTG Piatt stated that it would not be his best military advice to
recommend to the Secretary of the Army that the D.C. National Guard be allowed to deploy to
the Capitol at that time. LTG Piatt stated that the presence of uniformed military personnel
could inflame the situation and that the police were best suited to handle the situation. Both
LTGs Piatt and Flynn stated that the optics of having uniformed military personnel deployed to
the U.S. Capitol would not be good.
Chief Contee then stated that he would inform the Mayor (D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser)
that the Army was refusing to send the National Guard to the Capitol and that he would ask her
to convene a press conference to make this refusal known. LTG Piatt then asked Chief Contee to
please not do this. Piatt stated that the request for Guard presence was not being refused and he
had no power to deny or approve the request, only that he would not recommend approval to his
civilian leadership.
Piatt and Flynn recommended that Contee identify locations away from the
Capitol where D.C. National Guard personnel could relieve MPD personnel of traffic duties,
allowing more MPD personnel to surge to the Capitol. LTG Flynn also stated that the best use of
D.C. National Guard personnel would be to free up MPD personnel by performing non-law
enforcement traffic duties away from the Capitol. LTGs Piatt and Flynn recommended the D.C.
National Guard develop a plan to support MPD at locations other than the Capitol. The
telephone call that began at 2:30PM ended at approximately 2:55PM. LTG Flynn then directed
that a secure video conference bridge be established between the Army Staff and the D.C.
National Guard Leadership.
At approximately 3:05PM, MG Walker joined from his office the secure videoconference
hosted by LTG Charles Flynn. Present with MG Walker were BG Dean, COL Matthews, 1LT
Nick and CSM Brooks. This secure video teleconference would be continuous until around
5:15PM. Personnel in this teleconference included LTG Piatt, LTG Flynn, later General James
McConville, Chief of Staff of the Army, LTG Leslie Smith, Inspector General of the Army, BG
Matthew D. Smith, Mr. Casey Wardynski, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Manpower and
Reserve Affairs, Wardynski’s deputy, Mr. Marshall Williams, and numerous others who joined
5and left the call as necessary. This teleconference was used to share information that was
received from various sources by the D.C. National Guard or Army leadership. Army leaders on
the call provided a situational update to GEN McConville. During this call, at 5:08PM, GEN
McConville informed MG Walker and his leadership team that the Secretary of Defense had
authorized the D.C. National Guard to deploy to the Capitol in support of the USCP.

The most glaring deficiencies and outright falsehoods in the DoDIG report relate to events which
transpired after Secretary McCarthy traveled to MPD headquarters at 3:48PM to meet with
Mayor Bowser and Chief Contee. The purpose of the meeting was ostensibly to reassure Mayor
Bowser that DCNG support had not been previously refused and was imminent
, and to initiate a
plan for the DCNG’s eventual insertion into the Capitol.
The entire “planning narrative” created by BG LaNeve (and LTG Piatt) to justify the delay and
inaction of Army civilian leadership between 3:04PM and 5:08PM ...is that, at 3:04PM,
Acting Secretary Miller approved the mobilization of the DCNG
(which Miller may have interpreted as granting McCarthy permission to send DCNG personnel
immediately to the Capitol to support USCP), however McCarthy wanted to see a plan, and to
brief it to Miller and have Miller approve the plan before sending DCNG personnel to the
Capitol. Under this narrative, MG Walker was either unable or unwilling to develop a workable
plan, so Secretary McCarthy took it upon himself to travel to MPD headquarters, to confer with
Mayor Bowser and Chief Contee and to, with their help, personally develop a plan
for the
employment of the DCNG at the Capitol in support of USCP. The report alleges, based on the
statements of anonymous witnesses, “Secretary McCarthy, Mayor Bowser, Chief Contee and
others present drafted a detailed plan that identified where DCNG personnel would go, the route
they would take, whom they would support, who was in charge, and who the key leaders were.”
This detailed plan was developed between the time that McCarthy arrived at MPD HQ at
4:05PM (or 4:10PM according to the DoD publicly released timeline) and the time McCarthy
briefed the plan to Miller and CJCS Milley at 4:30PM. This plan for the deployment of DCNG
personnel to the Capitol was developed without any input or participation from DCNG leaders.
LaNeve claims the detailed plan took 20 minutes to construct, according to the DoDIG report.
Miller approved the detailed plan in 2 minutes, at 4:32PM, during his call with McCarthy and
Chairman Mark Milley. McCarthy then called MG Walker at 4:35PM to provide the detailed
plan to Walker and to direct Walker to deploy all available forces to the Capitol immediately.
During the 4:35 call between McCarthy and MG Walker, McCarthy delivered his detailed plan
including a link-up point and the names of federal contacts that DCNG personnel should engage
at the Capitol. The call between McCarthy and Walker evidently lasted less than 5 minutes
because McCarthy then jumped on a 4:40PM telephone call with Governor Larry Hogan of
Maryland. It is unclear how long McCarthy’s call with Governor Hogan lasted. One glaring
omission from the DoDIG report is that between 4:30 and 5:00 p.m., before DCNG personnel
had deployed to the Capitol, McCarthy spent nearly 20 minutes in a live nationally televised
press conference with Mayor Bowser and Chief Contee.

...It is unclear why McCarthy needed to participate in this live press event with the Capitol
not yet secured and with DCNG forces not yet deployed there... The press conference with
McCarthy was at least 17 minutes in length (likely longer) and there is actual video footage
of the event.

Conclusion
Given the glaring deficiencies with respect to the DoD IG investigation, and given that his name
was unfairly besmirched, MG Walker requests an independent review
of the investigative
findings of the DoDIG report and most importantly, the Army Report that was created at LTG
Piatt’s direction should be publicly released, independently reviewed and substantiated. The
timeline the Army produced should be carefully scrubbed for accuracy. Evidence of the actually
planning activities of the Army Staff, and especially of the G3/5/7/ under BG LaNeve and LTG
Flynn should be reviewed. What planning and coordination did these individuals actually
conduct? How did this planning enable DCNG to support the U.S. Capitol Police on 6 June after
the Capitol had been breached? What evidence is there of the planning and support the Army
Staff provided to DCNG after the Capitol’s breach and before DCNG deployed to the Capitol
after 5PM on January 6, 2021.

Unanswered Questions
Did Miller believe that he had authorized the actual deployment of the DCNG to the Capitol so
that McCarthy’s decision to seek his concurrence of a deployment plan was not required?
Where was Ryan McCarthy on the afternoon of 6 January, what is his personal timeline?
Where did Secretary McCarthy call MG Walker from at 3:05PM, 4:35PM and 5:00PM?
What phones were used to call Acting Secretary Miller and MG Walker?
Where is the plan that Secretary McCarthy generated with the Mayor?
Why didn’t McCarthy and or LaNeve invite DCNG participation in the planning that occurred at
MPD?
Who conveyed the plan (any plan) to DCNG?
Where is the plan? Why wasn’t it implemented on 6 January?

Were congressional leaders and the press mislead by being told that the DCNG was mobilized
(with an inference that the DCNG had been approved to come to the Capitol)?
What kind of operation are Troy O’Donnell and Marguerite C. Garrison running, what is their
agenda?


The apparent point of this memo is to restore the good name of MG Walker.
On Jan 6, he was the Commander of the DC NG. Despite the besmirchment of his good name, Speaker Pelosi chose him as the new House Sergeant at Arms.

I would include the following unanswered questions for MG Walker :
-- what was he doing on Jan 6 ? The memo implies that he was in the DC NG Armory, participating in the initial conference call & the follow on video conference. That gave him immediate access to Mayor Bowser, Chief Contee, & LTG Piatt. Did he use that access to inform them of what the DC NG was prepared to do, lay out their standing plan for riot response, assuage their concerns & forcefully advocate for the immediate deployment of his unit.
If he did, he was not effective. If he did not, why not ? Did he ever speak with Army Sec McCarthy on Jan 6 ? If not, what was he doing on Jan 6, fielding calls from members of Congress & staff ?

The protest memo from his DC NG JAG leaves the impression that MG Walker was passive & out of the decision making loop.
What was he doing to hasten the order to deploy his unit ? Who was he communicating with ? Did he confer with the Mayor ?
CU88
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by CU88 »

Marjorie Taylor Greene Flag of United States@mtgreenee

AT&T complying with Democrat’s Communist style invasion of privacy by handing over peoples personal cell phone data to the fake J6 committee is the absolute worst unconstitutional mistake!!!

Democrats MUST pay a steep price and I will work with my colleagues to make it happen.
8:14 PM · Dec 6, 2021·Twitter for iPhone


Squeals of desperation from a guilty person?

r's so proud
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Farfromgeneva
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

CU88 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:46 am Marjorie Taylor Greene Flag of United States@mtgreenee

AT&T complying with Democrat’s Communist style invasion of privacy by handing over peoples personal cell phone data to the fake J6 committee is the absolute worst unconstitutional mistake!!!

Democrats MUST pay a steep price and I will work with my colleagues to make it happen.
8:14 PM · Dec 6, 2021·Twitter for iPhone


Squeals of desperation from a guilty person?

r's so proud
Ga is highly likely to have a Dem gov after midterms because of a thoughtless egomaniac (Perdue) being propped up by a thoughtless egomaniac (he who those whine about ever discussing if the person is named)
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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RedFromMI
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by RedFromMI »

Trump’s Next Coup Has Already Begun

January 6 was practice. Donald Trump’s GOP is much better positioned to subvert the next election.


By Barton Gellman

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/620843/
Technically, the next attempt to overthrow a national election may not qualify as a coup. It will rely on subversion more than violence, although each will have its place. If the plot succeeds, the ballots cast by American voters will not decide the presidency in 2024. Thousands of votes will be thrown away, or millions, to produce the required effect. The winner will be declared the loser. The loser will be certified president-elect.

The prospect of this democratic collapse is not remote. People with the motive to make it happen are manufacturing the means. Given the opportunity, they will act. They are acting already.

Who or what will safeguard our constitutional order is not apparent today. It is not even apparent who will try. Democrats, big and small D, are not behaving as if they believe the threat is real. Some of them, including President Joe Biden, have taken passing rhetorical notice, but their attention wanders. They are making a grievous mistake.

“The democratic emergency is already here,” Richard L. Hasen, a professor of law and political science at UC Irvine, told me in late October. Hasen prides himself on a judicious temperament. Only a year ago he was cautioning me against hyperbole. Now he speaks matter-of-factly about the death of our body politic. “We face a serious risk that American democracy as we know it will come to an end in 2024,” he said, “but urgent action is not happening.”

For more than a year now, with tacit and explicit support from their party’s national leaders, state Republican operatives have been building an apparatus of election theft. Elected officials in Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and other states have studied Donald Trump’s crusade to overturn the 2020 election. They have noted the points of failure and have taken concrete steps to avoid failure next time. Some of them have rewritten statutes to seize partisan control of decisions about which ballots to count and which to discard, which results to certify and which to reject. They are driving out or stripping power from election officials who refused to go along with the plot last November, aiming to replace them with exponents of the Big Lie. They are fine-tuning a legal argument that purports to allow state legislators to override the choice of the voters.

By way of foundation for all the rest, Trump and his party have convinced a dauntingly large number of Americans that the essential workings of democracy are corrupt, that made-up claims of fraud are true, that only cheating can thwart their victory at the polls, that tyranny has usurped their government, and that violence is a legitimate response.

Any Republican might benefit from these machinations, but let’s not pretend there’s any suspense. Unless biology intercedes, Donald Trump will seek and win the Republican nomination for president in 2024. The party is in his thrall. No opponent can break it and few will try. Neither will a setback outside politics—indictment, say, or a disastrous turn in business—prevent Trump from running. If anything, it will redouble his will to power.

As we near the anniversary of January 6, investigators are still unearthing the roots of the insurrection that sacked the Capitol and sent members of Congress fleeing for their lives. What we know already, and could not have known then, is that the chaos wrought on that day was integral to a coherent plan. In retrospect, the insurrection takes on the aspect of rehearsal.

Even in defeat, Trump has gained strength for a second attempt to seize office, should he need to, after the polls close on November 5, 2024. It may appear otherwise—after all, he no longer commands the executive branch, which he tried and mostly failed to enlist in his first coup attempt. Yet the balance of power is shifting his way in arenas that matter more.

Trump is successfully shaping the narrative of the insurrection in the only political ecosystem that matters to him. The immediate shock of the event, which briefly led some senior Republicans to break with him, has given way to a near-unanimous embrace. Virtually no one a year ago, certainly not I, predicted that Trump could compel the whole party’s genuflection to the Big Lie and the recasting of insurgents as martyrs. Today the few GOP dissenters are being cast out. “2 down, 8 to go!” Trump gloated at the retirement announcement of Representative Adam Kinzinger, one of 10 House Republicans to vote for his second impeachment.

Trump has reconquered his party by setting its base on fire. Tens of millions of Americans perceive their world through black clouds of his smoke. His deepest source of strength is the bitter grievance of Republican voters that they lost the White House, and are losing their country, to alien forces with no legitimate claim to power. This is not some transient or loosely committed population. Trump has built the first American mass political movement in the past century that is ready to fight by any means necessary, including bloodshed, for its cause.
This is only a small taste of the article - too long to copy here. A great compilation of the level of misinformation and the resulting drive to install the next President rather than let the voters actually decide.
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by seacoaster »

Thanks for posting this Red. A really chilling article about chilling facts, not the least of which is the lassitude or laziness of Americans while it happens. It depicts the slow-motion quasi-de jure end of the Republic we know. No big deal, right?
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RedFromMI
Posts: 5079
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by RedFromMI »

seacoaster wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:04 am Thanks for posting this Red. A really chilling article about chilling facts, not the least of which is the lassitude or laziness of Americans while it happens. It depicts the slow-motion quasi-de jure end of the Republic we know. No big deal, right?
And as the article clearly points out - the Rs and the Federalist Society are quite prepared to push for state legislatures to override voting if necessary to achieve a victory.

And no longer will incompetents like Sidney Powell, etc. be entrusted to run the legal side of things.

Anyone who thinks this is not the current reality really needs to read this article.
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Kismet
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Kismet »

https://www.justsecurity.org/76117/the- ... january-6/

Detailed timeline at the link above - most detailed that I have seen so far
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by seacoaster »

RedFromMI wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:48 am
seacoaster wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:04 am Thanks for posting this Red. A really chilling article about chilling facts, not the least of which is the lassitude or laziness of Americans while it happens. It depicts the slow-motion quasi-de jure end of the Republic we know. No big deal, right?
And as the article clearly points out - the Rs and the Federalist Society are quite prepared to push for state legislatures to override voting if necessary to achieve a victory.

And no longer will incompetents like Sidney Powell, etc. be entrusted to run the legal side of things.

Anyone who thinks this is not the current reality really needs to read this article.
Yes. You vote Republican, and this is what you are voting for. Really is simple as that.
CU88
Posts: 4431
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by CU88 »

seacoaster wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:10 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:48 am
seacoaster wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:04 am Thanks for posting this Red. A really chilling article about chilling facts, not the least of which is the lassitude or laziness of Americans while it happens. It depicts the slow-motion quasi-de jure end of the Republic we know. No big deal, right?
And as the article clearly points out - the Rs and the Federalist Society are quite prepared to push for state legislatures to override voting if necessary to achieve a victory.

And no longer will incompetents like Sidney Powell, etc. be entrusted to run the legal side of things.

Anyone who thinks this is not the current reality really needs to read this article.
Yes. You vote Republican, and this is what you are voting for. Really is simple as that.
Indeed, all of the "I don't support this, but I still vote r" voices are liars; and they know it.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23811
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Abstinence. Just like most of my high school days. Wish it weren’t so, getting too second base or a dry rub here or there, like voting on a local level occasionally, is how it is.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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