Is America a racist nation?

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MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27139
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

SCLaxAttack wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:16 pm
seacoaster wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:40 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:51 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:23 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:50 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:45 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:17 am Painfully, outright white supremacism remains rampant in many of our institutions...and this example is only the most egregiously obvious sort: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/us/torra ... index.html
Policing is a last resort for a lot of these losers.
Badges and guns and uniforms are attractive to certain sorts.
Power.
It is. I often wonder what other career opportunities these guys passed up to become a police officer.
Those who can't, teach. Or police.
Or get a gig as a corrections officer.
With the slight exception to TLD's comment because of his use of a qualifier, I take offense to these comments.

My son was a corrections officer two years and then a cop for five in AZ until moving to NJ a little over two years ago because of a business promotion taken by his wife. Before his time in criminal justice work he worked in another field for which he had an associate's degree, and that field was financially more lucrative for he and his family. But he loved being a cop. In the seven years in criminal justice he took certification courses that got him to a total of 154 college credits. That's right, theoretically enough for a bachelor's and a master's.

But there's no reciprocity between NJ and AZ to allow him to just transfer into a NJ police organization, so he had to go through hoops in order to qualify to even apply to positions. This included having to take three "trivial" general college courses so he could earn an associate's degree in criminal justice so one of the requirement boxes could be checked. (Those courses were in math, science, and "daily report writing". That's right, somebody who'd been a cop for five years had to sit through a course on how to write daily reports, taught by a prof with a criminal justice master's degree who's never been a cop. At least the he had a 100 average.)

But now he's reached the point where he's run out of time to get on a NJ police force because he's getting close to an age requirement which would require too much reading to explain (Covid throwing a wrench into everything for a year also didn't help), so he's resigned himself to return to his more lucrative previous occupation. The only way back to policing would be if his wife suddenly received a promotion that would lead to them moving to a state with AZ reciprocity within the next year.

Why's he so upset? Because he loved public service, and misses it every day.

Some, no most, cops are cops for the right reasons.
To be clear, I was referring to those sorts who do find power, the guns, badges, uniforms, etc attractive, and was specifically referring to the set that also finds white supremacy an attractive ideology...that overlap. IMO, it's a substantial set of cops, but certainly not the majority.

I have a good friend who's been a cop for now close to 40 years. I never got the sense he chose that path because other options weren't available. More of a way to do good in the world, help his community. And it wasn't the power aspects of the badge.

All that said, there's a real problem in both the size/number/percentage of the 'problem' cops (whether racist, power abusers, or dishonest/corrupt, or both) and the difficulty of removing them from those positions of power over citizenry is too difficult.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

The current chief of police in my former hometown has broken numerous laws while on the job I know for a fact...
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by seacoaster »

SCLaxAttack wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:16 pm
seacoaster wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:40 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:51 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:23 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:50 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:45 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:17 am Painfully, outright white supremacism remains rampant in many of our institutions...and this example is only the most egregiously obvious sort: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/us/torra ... index.html
Policing is a last resort for a lot of these losers.
Badges and guns and uniforms are attractive to certain sorts.
Power.
It is. I often wonder what other career opportunities these guys passed up to become a police officer.
Those who can't, teach. Or police.
Or get a gig as a corrections officer.
With the slight exception to TLD's comment because of his use of a qualifier, I take offense to these comments.

My son was a corrections officer two years and then a cop for five in AZ until moving to NJ a little over two years ago because of a business promotion taken by his wife. Before his time in criminal justice work he worked in another field for which he had an associate's degree, and that field was financially more lucrative for he and his family. But he loved being a cop. In the seven years in criminal justice he took certification courses that got him to a total of 154 college credits. That's right, theoretically enough for a bachelor's and a master's.

But there's no reciprocity between NJ and AZ to allow him to just transfer into a NJ police organization, so he had to go through hoops in order to qualify to even apply to positions. This included having to take three "trivial" general college courses so he could earn an associate's degree in criminal justice so one of the requirement boxes could be checked. (Those courses were in math, science, and "daily report writing". That's right, somebody who'd been a cop for five years had to sit through a course on how to write daily reports, taught by a prof with a criminal justice master's degree who's never been a cop. At least the he had a 100 average.)

But now he's reached the point where he's run out of time to get on a NJ police force because he's getting close to an age requirement which would require too much reading to explain (Covid throwing a wrench into everything for a year also didn't help), so he's resigned himself to return to his more lucrative previous occupation. The only way back to policing would be if his wife suddenly received a promotion that would lead to them moving to a state with AZ reciprocity within the next year.

Why's he so upset? Because he loved public service, and misses it every day.

Some, no most, cops are cops for the right reasons.
My apologies for the gross generalization. Always dangerous and frequently dumb, and I’m sorry for that. I will say, though, that I have some limited experience with corrections officers and my interactions have not been good. I know the job is tough and sometimes thankless. But I’ve met a few who appear to like certain attributes of the job too much. But from those experiences to all COs? Not fair. My bad.
CU88
Posts: 4431
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by CU88 »

August 20, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
Aug 21

On August 21, 1831, Nat Turner, an enslaved American, led about 70 of his enslaved and free Black neighbors in a rebellion to awaken his white neighbors to the inherent brutality of slaveholding and the dangers it presented to their own safety. Turner and his friends traveled from house to house in their neighborhood in Southampton County, Virginia, freeing enslaved people and murdering about 60 of the white men, women, and children they encountered. Their goal, Turner later told an interviewer, was “to carry terror and devastation wherever we went.”

State militia put down the rebellion in a couple of days, and both the legal system and white vigilantes killed at least 200 Black Virginians, many of whom were not involved in Turner’s bid to end enslavement. Turner himself was captured in October, tried in November, sentenced to death, and hanged.

But white Virginians, and white folks in neighboring southern states, remained frightened. Turner had been, in their minds, a well-treated, educated enslaved man, who knew his Bible well and seemed the very last sort of person they would have expected to revolt. And so they responded to the rebellion in two ways. They turned against the idea that enslavement was a bad thing, and instead began to argue that human enslavement was a positive good.

And states across the South passed laws making it a crime to teach enslaved Americans to read and write.

Denying enslaved Black Americans access to education exiled them from a place in the nation. The Framers had quite explicitly organized the United States not on the principles of religion or tradition, but rather on the principles of the Enlightenment: the idea that, by applying knowledge and reasoning to the natural world, men could figure out the best way to order society. Someone excluded from access to education could not participate in that national project. Instead, that person was read out of society, doomed to be controlled by leaders who marshaled religion and propaganda to defend their dominance.

In 1858, South Carolina Senator James Henry Hammond explained that society needed “a class to do the menial duties, to perform the drudgery of life. That is, a class requiring but a low order of intellect and but little skill.”

But when they organized in the 1850s to push back against the efforts of elite enslavers like Hammond to take over the national government, members of the fledgling Republican Party recognized the importance of education. In 1859, Illinois lawyer Abraham Lincoln explained that those who adhered to the “mud-sill” theory “assumed that labor and education are incompatible; and any practical combination of them impossible…. According to that theory, the education of laborers, is not only useless, but pernicious, and dangerous.”

Lincoln argued that workers were not simply drudges but rather were the heart of the economy. “The prudent, penniless beginner in the world, labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land, for himself; then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him.” He tied the political vision of the Framers to this economic vision. In order to prosper, he argued, men needed “book-learning,” and he called for universal education. An educated community, he said, “will be alike independent of crowned-kings, money-kings, and land-kings.”

When they were in control of the federal government in the 1860s, Republicans passed the Land Grant College Act, funding public universities so that men without wealthy fathers might have access to higher education. In the aftermath of the Civil War, Republicans also tried to use the federal government to fund public schools for poor Black and white Americans, dividing money up according to illiteracy rates. But President Andrew Johnson vetoed that bill on the grounds that the federal government had no business protecting Black education; that process, he said, belonged to the states—which for the next century denied Black people equal access to schools, excluding them from full participation in American society and condemning them to menial labor.

Then, in 1954, after decades of pressure from Black and brown Americans for equal access to public schools, the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Earl Warren, a former Republican governor of California, unanimously agreed that separate schools were inherently unequal, and thus unconstitutional.

Immediately, white southerners lawmakers launched a campaign of what they called “massive resistance” to integration. Some Virginia counties closed their public schools. Others took funds from integrated public schools and used a grant system to redistribute those funds to segregated private schools. These segregation academies dovetailed neatly with Ronald Reagan’s rise to political power with a message that public employees had gotten too powerful and that public enterprises should be privatized.

After Reagan’s election, his Secretary of Education commissioned a study of the nation’s public schools, starting with the conviction that there was a "widespread public perception that something is seriously remiss in our educational system." The resulting report, titled “A Nation at Risk,” announced: “the educational foundations of our society are presently being eroded by a rising tide of mediocrity that threatens our very future as a Nation and a people.”

Although a later study commissioned in 1990 by the Secretary of Energy found the data in the original report did not support the report’s conclusions, Reagan nonetheless used it to justify school privatization. He vowed after the report’s release that he would: “continue to work in the months ahead for passage of tuition tax credits, vouchers, educational savings accounts, voluntary school prayer, and abolishing the Department of Education. Our agenda is to restore quality to education by increasing competition and by strengthening parental choice and local control.”

The drive to push tax dollars from public schools to private academies through a voucher system has remained a top priority for Movement Conservatives eager to dismantle the federal government, although a recent study from Wisconsin shows that vouchers do not actually save tax dollars, and scholars do not believe they help students achieve better outcomes than they would have in public schools.

Calling education a civil rights issue—as President Barack Obama had done when calling for more funding for schools—former president Trump asked Congress to fund “school choice for disadvantaged youth, including millions of African-American and Latino children. These families should be free to choose the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school that is right for them.” (In fact, most of those using vouchers are already enrolled in private schools.) His education secretary, Betsy DeVos, was a staunch supporter of school choice and the voucher system; she and her family gave $600,000 to promote school choice ballot laws in the decade before 2017.

The coronavirus pandemic sped up the push to defund public schools as Trump pushed hard to transfer funds from the closed public schools to private schools. In December 2020, he signed an executive order allowing states to use money from a federal anti-poverty program for vouchers, and as of mid-2021, at least 8 states had launched new voucher programs. A number of Republican governors are using federal funds from the bills designed to address the pandemic to push vouchers.

In 1831, lawmakers afraid of the equality that lies at the heart of our Declaration of Independence made sure Black Americans could not have equal access to education.

In 1971, when segregation academies were gaining ground, the achievement gap between white and Black 8th grade students in reading scores was 57 points. In 1988, the year of the nation’s highest level of school integration, that gap had fallen to 18 points. By 1992, it was back up to 30 points, and it has not dropped below 25 points since.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6383
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by kramerica.inc »

There’s bigotry everywhere. People need to be respected for who they are as unique, but also easily categorized. I think it’s good to normalize everyone and everything. Push it to the mainstream consciousness. No matter how esoteric we can probably find a category for people to fit in. Nice and neat. If not, we can categorize them as Q or a symbol, perhaps.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:12 am There’s bigotry everywhere. People need to be respected for who they are as unique, but also easily categorized. I think it’s good to normalize everyone and everything. Push it to the mainstream consciousness. No matter how esoteric we can probably find a category for people to fit in. Nice and neat. If not, we can categorize them as Q or a symbol, perhaps.
Only prince is allowed to be a symbol. Unless you can close out a Beatles remix like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34214
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

CU88 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:52 am August 20, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
Aug 21

On August 21, 1831, Nat Turner, an enslaved American, led about 70 of his enslaved and free Black neighbors in a rebellion to awaken his white neighbors to the inherent brutality of slaveholding and the dangers it presented to their own safety. Turner and his friends traveled from house to house in their neighborhood in Southampton County, Virginia, freeing enslaved people and murdering about 60 of the white men, women, and children they encountered. Their goal, Turner later told an interviewer, was “to carry terror and devastation wherever we went.”

State militia put down the rebellion in a couple of days, and both the legal system and white vigilantes killed at least 200 Black Virginians, many of whom were not involved in Turner’s bid to end enslavement. Turner himself was captured in October, tried in November, sentenced to death, and hanged.

But white Virginians, and white folks in neighboring southern states, remained frightened. Turner had been, in their minds, a well-treated, educated enslaved man, who knew his Bible well and seemed the very last sort of person they would have expected to revolt. And so they responded to the rebellion in two ways. They turned against the idea that enslavement was a bad thing, and instead began to argue that human enslavement was a positive good.

And states across the South passed laws making it a crime to teach enslaved Americans to read and write.

Denying enslaved Black Americans access to education exiled them from a place in the nation. The Framers had quite explicitly organized the United States not on the principles of religion or tradition, but rather on the principles of the Enlightenment: the idea that, by applying knowledge and reasoning to the natural world, men could figure out the best way to order society. Someone excluded from access to education could not participate in that national project. Instead, that person was read out of society, doomed to be controlled by leaders who marshaled religion and propaganda to defend their dominance.

In 1858, South Carolina Senator James Henry Hammond explained that society needed “a class to do the menial duties, to perform the drudgery of life. That is, a class requiring but a low order of intellect and but little skill.”

But when they organized in the 1850s to push back against the efforts of elite enslavers like Hammond to take over the national government, members of the fledgling Republican Party recognized the importance of education. In 1859, Illinois lawyer Abraham Lincoln explained that those who adhered to the “mud-sill” theory “assumed that labor and education are incompatible; and any practical combination of them impossible…. According to that theory, the education of laborers, is not only useless, but pernicious, and dangerous.”

Lincoln argued that workers were not simply drudges but rather were the heart of the economy. “The prudent, penniless beginner in the world, labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land, for himself; then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him.” He tied the political vision of the Framers to this economic vision. In order to prosper, he argued, men needed “book-learning,” and he called for universal education. An educated community, he said, “will be alike independent of crowned-kings, money-kings, and land-kings.”

When they were in control of the federal government in the 1860s, Republicans passed the Land Grant College Act, funding public universities so that men without wealthy fathers might have access to higher education. In the aftermath of the Civil War, Republicans also tried to use the federal government to fund public schools for poor Black and white Americans, dividing money up according to illiteracy rates. But President Andrew Johnson vetoed that bill on the grounds that the federal government had no business protecting Black education; that process, he said, belonged to the states—which for the next century denied Black people equal access to schools, excluding them from full participation in American society and condemning them to menial labor.

Then, in 1954, after decades of pressure from Black and brown Americans for equal access to public schools, the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Earl Warren, a former Republican governor of California, unanimously agreed that separate schools were inherently unequal, and thus unconstitutional.

Immediately, white southerners lawmakers launched a campaign of what they called “massive resistance” to integration. Some Virginia counties closed their public schools. Others took funds from integrated public schools and used a grant system to redistribute those funds to segregated private schools. These segregation academies dovetailed neatly with Ronald Reagan’s rise to political power with a message that public employees had gotten too powerful and that public enterprises should be privatized.

After Reagan’s election, his Secretary of Education commissioned a study of the nation’s public schools, starting with the conviction that there was a "widespread public perception that something is seriously remiss in our educational system." The resulting report, titled “A Nation at Risk,” announced: “the educational foundations of our society are presently being eroded by a rising tide of mediocrity that threatens our very future as a Nation and a people.”

Although a later study commissioned in 1990 by the Secretary of Energy found the data in the original report did not support the report’s conclusions, Reagan nonetheless used it to justify school privatization. He vowed after the report’s release that he would: “continue to work in the months ahead for passage of tuition tax credits, vouchers, educational savings accounts, voluntary school prayer, and abolishing the Department of Education. Our agenda is to restore quality to education by increasing competition and by strengthening parental choice and local control.”

The drive to push tax dollars from public schools to private academies through a voucher system has remained a top priority for Movement Conservatives eager to dismantle the federal government, although a recent study from Wisconsin shows that vouchers do not actually save tax dollars, and scholars do not believe they help students achieve better outcomes than they would have in public schools.

Calling education a civil rights issue—as President Barack Obama had done when calling for more funding for schools—former president Trump asked Congress to fund “school choice for disadvantaged youth, including millions of African-American and Latino children. These families should be free to choose the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school that is right for them.” (In fact, most of those using vouchers are already enrolled in private schools.) His education secretary, Betsy DeVos, was a staunch supporter of school choice and the voucher system; she and her family gave $600,000 to promote school choice ballot laws in the decade before 2017.

The coronavirus pandemic sped up the push to defund public schools as Trump pushed hard to transfer funds from the closed public schools to private schools. In December 2020, he signed an executive order allowing states to use money from a federal anti-poverty program for vouchers, and as of mid-2021, at least 8 states had launched new voucher programs. A number of Republican governors are using federal funds from the bills designed to address the pandemic to push vouchers.

In 1831, lawmakers afraid of the equality that lies at the heart of our Declaration of Independence made sure Black Americans could not have equal access to education.

In 1971, when segregation academies were gaining ground, the achievement gap between white and Black 8th grade students in reading scores was 57 points. In 1988, the year of the nation’s highest level of school integration, that gap had fallen to 18 points. By 1992, it was back up to 30 points, and it has not dropped below 25 points since.
The Lord was on Nat’s side.
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

CU88 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:52 am August 20, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
Aug 21

On August 21, 1831, Nat Turner, an enslaved American, led about 70 of his enslaved and free Black neighbors in a rebellion to awaken his white neighbors to the inherent brutality of slaveholding and the dangers it presented to their own safety. Turner and his friends traveled from house to house in their neighborhood in Southampton County, Virginia, freeing enslaved people and murdering about 60 of the white men, women, and children they encountered. Their goal, Turner later told an interviewer, was “to carry terror and devastation wherever we went.”

State militia put down the rebellion in a couple of days, and both the legal system and white vigilantes killed at least 200 Black Virginians, many of whom were not involved in Turner’s bid to end enslavement. Turner himself was captured in October, tried in November, sentenced to death, and hanged.

But white Virginians, and white folks in neighboring southern states, remained frightened. Turner had been, in their minds, a well-treated, educated enslaved man, who knew his Bible well and seemed the very last sort of person they would have expected to revolt. And so they responded to the rebellion in two ways. They turned against the idea that enslavement was a bad thing, and instead began to argue that human enslavement was a positive good.

And states across the South passed laws making it a crime to teach enslaved Americans to read and write.

Denying enslaved Black Americans access to education exiled them from a place in the nation. The Framers had quite explicitly organized the United States not on the principles of religion or tradition, but rather on the principles of the Enlightenment: the idea that, by applying knowledge and reasoning to the natural world, men could figure out the best way to order society. Someone excluded from access to education could not participate in that national project. Instead, that person was read out of society, doomed to be controlled by leaders who marshaled religion and propaganda to defend their dominance.

In 1858, South Carolina Senator James Henry Hammond explained that society needed “a class to do the menial duties, to perform the drudgery of life. That is, a class requiring but a low order of intellect and but little skill.”

But when they organized in the 1850s to push back against the efforts of elite enslavers like Hammond to take over the national government, members of the fledgling Republican Party recognized the importance of education. In 1859, Illinois lawyer Abraham Lincoln explained that those who adhered to the “mud-sill” theory “assumed that labor and education are incompatible; and any practical combination of them impossible…. According to that theory, the education of laborers, is not only useless, but pernicious, and dangerous.”

Lincoln argued that workers were not simply drudges but rather were the heart of the economy. “The prudent, penniless beginner in the world, labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land, for himself; then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him.” He tied the political vision of the Framers to this economic vision. In order to prosper, he argued, men needed “book-learning,” and he called for universal education. An educated community, he said, “will be alike independent of crowned-kings, money-kings, and land-kings.”

When they were in control of the federal government in the 1860s, Republicans passed the Land Grant College Act, funding public universities so that men without wealthy fathers might have access to higher education. In the aftermath of the Civil War, Republicans also tried to use the federal government to fund public schools for poor Black and white Americans, dividing money up according to illiteracy rates. But President Andrew Johnson vetoed that bill on the grounds that the federal government had no business protecting Black education; that process, he said, belonged to the states—which for the next century denied Black people equal access to schools, excluding them from full participation in American society and condemning them to menial labor.

Then, in 1954, after decades of pressure from Black and brown Americans for equal access to public schools, the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Earl Warren, a former Republican governor of California, unanimously agreed that separate schools were inherently unequal, and thus unconstitutional.

Immediately, white southerners lawmakers launched a campaign of what they called “massive resistance” to integration. Some Virginia counties closed their public schools. Others took funds from integrated public schools and used a grant system to redistribute those funds to segregated private schools. These segregation academies dovetailed neatly with Ronald Reagan’s rise to political power with a message that public employees had gotten too powerful and that public enterprises should be privatized.

After Reagan’s election, his Secretary of Education commissioned a study of the nation’s public schools, starting with the conviction that there was a "widespread public perception that something is seriously remiss in our educational system." The resulting report, titled “A Nation at Risk,” announced: “the educational foundations of our society are presently being eroded by a rising tide of mediocrity that threatens our very future as a Nation and a people.”

Although a later study commissioned in 1990 by the Secretary of Energy found the data in the original report did not support the report’s conclusions, Reagan nonetheless used it to justify school privatization. He vowed after the report’s release that he would: “continue to work in the months ahead for passage of tuition tax credits, vouchers, educational savings accounts, voluntary school prayer, and abolishing the Department of Education. Our agenda is to restore quality to education by increasing competition and by strengthening parental choice and local control.”

The drive to push tax dollars from public schools to private academies through a voucher system has remained a top priority for Movement Conservatives eager to dismantle the federal government, although a recent study from Wisconsin shows that vouchers do not actually save tax dollars, and scholars do not believe they help students achieve better outcomes than they would have in public schools.

Calling education a civil rights issue—as President Barack Obama had done when calling for more funding for schools—former president Trump asked Congress to fund “school choice for disadvantaged youth, including millions of African-American and Latino children. These families should be free to choose the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school that is right for them.” (In fact, most of those using vouchers are already enrolled in private schools.) His education secretary, Betsy DeVos, was a staunch supporter of school choice and the voucher system; she and her family gave $600,000 to promote school choice ballot laws in the decade before 2017.

The coronavirus pandemic sped up the push to defund public schools as Trump pushed hard to transfer funds from the closed public schools to private schools. In December 2020, he signed an executive order allowing states to use money from a federal anti-poverty program for vouchers, and as of mid-2021, at least 8 states had launched new voucher programs. A number of Republican governors are using federal funds from the bills designed to address the pandemic to push vouchers.

In 1831, lawmakers afraid of the equality that lies at the heart of our Declaration of Independence made sure Black Americans could not have equal access to education.

In 1971, when segregation academies were gaining ground, the achievement gap between white and Black 8th grade students in reading scores was 57 points. In 1988, the year of the nation’s highest level of school integration, that gap had fallen to 18 points. By 1992, it was back up to 30 points, and it has not dropped below 25 points since.
Cant hear the name Nat Turner since the late 90s without thinking about this, for TLD:

This is not the first time I came to the planet
But every time I come, only a few could understand it
I came as Isis, my words they tried to ban it
I came as Moses, they couldn't follow my Commandments
I came as Solomon, to a people that was lost
I came as Jesus, but they nailed me to a cross
I came as Harriet Tubman, I put the truth to Sojourner
Other times, I had to come as Nat Turner
They tried to burn me, lynch me and starve me
So I had to come back as Marcus Garvey, Bob Marley

They tried to harm me, I used to be Malcolm X
Now I'm on the planet as the one called KRS
Kickin' the metaphysical, spiritual, tryin' to like
Get with you, showin' you, you are invincible
The Black Panther is the black answer for real
In my spiritual form, I turn into Bobby Seale
On the wheels of steel, my spirit flies away
And enters into Kwame Ture
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34214
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:45 am
CU88 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:52 am August 20, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
Aug 21

On August 21, 1831, Nat Turner, an enslaved American, led about 70 of his enslaved and free Black neighbors in a rebellion to awaken his white neighbors to the inherent brutality of slaveholding and the dangers it presented to their own safety. Turner and his friends traveled from house to house in their neighborhood in Southampton County, Virginia, freeing enslaved people and murdering about 60 of the white men, women, and children they encountered. Their goal, Turner later told an interviewer, was “to carry terror and devastation wherever we went.”

State militia put down the rebellion in a couple of days, and both the legal system and white vigilantes killed at least 200 Black Virginians, many of whom were not involved in Turner’s bid to end enslavement. Turner himself was captured in October, tried in November, sentenced to death, and hanged.

But white Virginians, and white folks in neighboring southern states, remained frightened. Turner had been, in their minds, a well-treated, educated enslaved man, who knew his Bible well and seemed the very last sort of person they would have expected to revolt. And so they responded to the rebellion in two ways. They turned against the idea that enslavement was a bad thing, and instead began to argue that human enslavement was a positive good.

And states across the South passed laws making it a crime to teach enslaved Americans to read and write.

Denying enslaved Black Americans access to education exiled them from a place in the nation. The Framers had quite explicitly organized the United States not on the principles of religion or tradition, but rather on the principles of the Enlightenment: the idea that, by applying knowledge and reasoning to the natural world, men could figure out the best way to order society. Someone excluded from access to education could not participate in that national project. Instead, that person was read out of society, doomed to be controlled by leaders who marshaled religion and propaganda to defend their dominance.

In 1858, South Carolina Senator James Henry Hammond explained that society needed “a class to do the menial duties, to perform the drudgery of life. That is, a class requiring but a low order of intellect and but little skill.”

But when they organized in the 1850s to push back against the efforts of elite enslavers like Hammond to take over the national government, members of the fledgling Republican Party recognized the importance of education. In 1859, Illinois lawyer Abraham Lincoln explained that those who adhered to the “mud-sill” theory “assumed that labor and education are incompatible; and any practical combination of them impossible…. According to that theory, the education of laborers, is not only useless, but pernicious, and dangerous.”

Lincoln argued that workers were not simply drudges but rather were the heart of the economy. “The prudent, penniless beginner in the world, labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land, for himself; then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him.” He tied the political vision of the Framers to this economic vision. In order to prosper, he argued, men needed “book-learning,” and he called for universal education. An educated community, he said, “will be alike independent of crowned-kings, money-kings, and land-kings.”

When they were in control of the federal government in the 1860s, Republicans passed the Land Grant College Act, funding public universities so that men without wealthy fathers might have access to higher education. In the aftermath of the Civil War, Republicans also tried to use the federal government to fund public schools for poor Black and white Americans, dividing money up according to illiteracy rates. But President Andrew Johnson vetoed that bill on the grounds that the federal government had no business protecting Black education; that process, he said, belonged to the states—which for the next century denied Black people equal access to schools, excluding them from full participation in American society and condemning them to menial labor.

Then, in 1954, after decades of pressure from Black and brown Americans for equal access to public schools, the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Earl Warren, a former Republican governor of California, unanimously agreed that separate schools were inherently unequal, and thus unconstitutional.

Immediately, white southerners lawmakers launched a campaign of what they called “massive resistance” to integration. Some Virginia counties closed their public schools. Others took funds from integrated public schools and used a grant system to redistribute those funds to segregated private schools. These segregation academies dovetailed neatly with Ronald Reagan’s rise to political power with a message that public employees had gotten too powerful and that public enterprises should be privatized.

After Reagan’s election, his Secretary of Education commissioned a study of the nation’s public schools, starting with the conviction that there was a "widespread public perception that something is seriously remiss in our educational system." The resulting report, titled “A Nation at Risk,” announced: “the educational foundations of our society are presently being eroded by a rising tide of mediocrity that threatens our very future as a Nation and a people.”

Although a later study commissioned in 1990 by the Secretary of Energy found the data in the original report did not support the report’s conclusions, Reagan nonetheless used it to justify school privatization. He vowed after the report’s release that he would: “continue to work in the months ahead for passage of tuition tax credits, vouchers, educational savings accounts, voluntary school prayer, and abolishing the Department of Education. Our agenda is to restore quality to education by increasing competition and by strengthening parental choice and local control.”

The drive to push tax dollars from public schools to private academies through a voucher system has remained a top priority for Movement Conservatives eager to dismantle the federal government, although a recent study from Wisconsin shows that vouchers do not actually save tax dollars, and scholars do not believe they help students achieve better outcomes than they would have in public schools.

Calling education a civil rights issue—as President Barack Obama had done when calling for more funding for schools—former president Trump asked Congress to fund “school choice for disadvantaged youth, including millions of African-American and Latino children. These families should be free to choose the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school that is right for them.” (In fact, most of those using vouchers are already enrolled in private schools.) His education secretary, Betsy DeVos, was a staunch supporter of school choice and the voucher system; she and her family gave $600,000 to promote school choice ballot laws in the decade before 2017.

The coronavirus pandemic sped up the push to defund public schools as Trump pushed hard to transfer funds from the closed public schools to private schools. In December 2020, he signed an executive order allowing states to use money from a federal anti-poverty program for vouchers, and as of mid-2021, at least 8 states had launched new voucher programs. A number of Republican governors are using federal funds from the bills designed to address the pandemic to push vouchers.

In 1831, lawmakers afraid of the equality that lies at the heart of our Declaration of Independence made sure Black Americans could not have equal access to education.

In 1971, when segregation academies were gaining ground, the achievement gap between white and Black 8th grade students in reading scores was 57 points. In 1988, the year of the nation’s highest level of school integration, that gap had fallen to 18 points. By 1992, it was back up to 30 points, and it has not dropped below 25 points since.
Cant hear the name Nat Turner since the late 90s without thinking about this, for TLD:

This is not the first time I came to the planet
But every time I come, only a few could understand it
I came as Isis, my words they tried to ban it
I came as Moses, they couldn't follow my Commandments
I came as Solomon, to a people that was lost
I came as Jesus, but they nailed me to a cross
I came as Harriet Tubman, I put the truth to Sojourner
Other times, I had to come as Nat Turner
They tried to burn me, lynch me and starve me
So I had to come back as Marcus Garvey, Bob Marley

They tried to harm me, I used to be Malcolm X
Now I'm on the planet as the one called KRS
Kickin' the metaphysical, spiritual, tryin' to like
Get with you, showin' you, you are invincible
The Black Panther is the black answer for real
In my spiritual form, I turn into Bobby Seale
On the wheels of steel, my spirit flies away
And enters into Kwame Ture
The GOAT

As for Nat Turner:



Part of the Nat Turner fallout was slaves were banned from being educated.
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:58 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:45 am
CU88 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:52 am August 20, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
Aug 21

On August 21, 1831, Nat Turner, an enslaved American, led about 70 of his enslaved and free Black neighbors in a rebellion to awaken his white neighbors to the inherent brutality of slaveholding and the dangers it presented to their own safety. Turner and his friends traveled from house to house in their neighborhood in Southampton County, Virginia, freeing enslaved people and murdering about 60 of the white men, women, and children they encountered. Their goal, Turner later told an interviewer, was “to carry terror and devastation wherever we went.”

State militia put down the rebellion in a couple of days, and both the legal system and white vigilantes killed at least 200 Black Virginians, many of whom were not involved in Turner’s bid to end enslavement. Turner himself was captured in October, tried in November, sentenced to death, and hanged.

But white Virginians, and white folks in neighboring southern states, remained frightened. Turner had been, in their minds, a well-treated, educated enslaved man, who knew his Bible well and seemed the very last sort of person they would have expected to revolt. And so they responded to the rebellion in two ways. They turned against the idea that enslavement was a bad thing, and instead began to argue that human enslavement was a positive good.

And states across the South passed laws making it a crime to teach enslaved Americans to read and write.

Denying enslaved Black Americans access to education exiled them from a place in the nation. The Framers had quite explicitly organized the United States not on the principles of religion or tradition, but rather on the principles of the Enlightenment: the idea that, by applying knowledge and reasoning to the natural world, men could figure out the best way to order society. Someone excluded from access to education could not participate in that national project. Instead, that person was read out of society, doomed to be controlled by leaders who marshaled religion and propaganda to defend their dominance.

In 1858, South Carolina Senator James Henry Hammond explained that society needed “a class to do the menial duties, to perform the drudgery of life. That is, a class requiring but a low order of intellect and but little skill.”

But when they organized in the 1850s to push back against the efforts of elite enslavers like Hammond to take over the national government, members of the fledgling Republican Party recognized the importance of education. In 1859, Illinois lawyer Abraham Lincoln explained that those who adhered to the “mud-sill” theory “assumed that labor and education are incompatible; and any practical combination of them impossible…. According to that theory, the education of laborers, is not only useless, but pernicious, and dangerous.”

Lincoln argued that workers were not simply drudges but rather were the heart of the economy. “The prudent, penniless beginner in the world, labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land, for himself; then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him.” He tied the political vision of the Framers to this economic vision. In order to prosper, he argued, men needed “book-learning,” and he called for universal education. An educated community, he said, “will be alike independent of crowned-kings, money-kings, and land-kings.”

When they were in control of the federal government in the 1860s, Republicans passed the Land Grant College Act, funding public universities so that men without wealthy fathers might have access to higher education. In the aftermath of the Civil War, Republicans also tried to use the federal government to fund public schools for poor Black and white Americans, dividing money up according to illiteracy rates. But President Andrew Johnson vetoed that bill on the grounds that the federal government had no business protecting Black education; that process, he said, belonged to the states—which for the next century denied Black people equal access to schools, excluding them from full participation in American society and condemning them to menial labor.

Then, in 1954, after decades of pressure from Black and brown Americans for equal access to public schools, the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Earl Warren, a former Republican governor of California, unanimously agreed that separate schools were inherently unequal, and thus unconstitutional.

Immediately, white southerners lawmakers launched a campaign of what they called “massive resistance” to integration. Some Virginia counties closed their public schools. Others took funds from integrated public schools and used a grant system to redistribute those funds to segregated private schools. These segregation academies dovetailed neatly with Ronald Reagan’s rise to political power with a message that public employees had gotten too powerful and that public enterprises should be privatized.

After Reagan’s election, his Secretary of Education commissioned a study of the nation’s public schools, starting with the conviction that there was a "widespread public perception that something is seriously remiss in our educational system." The resulting report, titled “A Nation at Risk,” announced: “the educational foundations of our society are presently being eroded by a rising tide of mediocrity that threatens our very future as a Nation and a people.”

Although a later study commissioned in 1990 by the Secretary of Energy found the data in the original report did not support the report’s conclusions, Reagan nonetheless used it to justify school privatization. He vowed after the report’s release that he would: “continue to work in the months ahead for passage of tuition tax credits, vouchers, educational savings accounts, voluntary school prayer, and abolishing the Department of Education. Our agenda is to restore quality to education by increasing competition and by strengthening parental choice and local control.”

The drive to push tax dollars from public schools to private academies through a voucher system has remained a top priority for Movement Conservatives eager to dismantle the federal government, although a recent study from Wisconsin shows that vouchers do not actually save tax dollars, and scholars do not believe they help students achieve better outcomes than they would have in public schools.

Calling education a civil rights issue—as President Barack Obama had done when calling for more funding for schools—former president Trump asked Congress to fund “school choice for disadvantaged youth, including millions of African-American and Latino children. These families should be free to choose the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school that is right for them.” (In fact, most of those using vouchers are already enrolled in private schools.) His education secretary, Betsy DeVos, was a staunch supporter of school choice and the voucher system; she and her family gave $600,000 to promote school choice ballot laws in the decade before 2017.

The coronavirus pandemic sped up the push to defund public schools as Trump pushed hard to transfer funds from the closed public schools to private schools. In December 2020, he signed an executive order allowing states to use money from a federal anti-poverty program for vouchers, and as of mid-2021, at least 8 states had launched new voucher programs. A number of Republican governors are using federal funds from the bills designed to address the pandemic to push vouchers.

In 1831, lawmakers afraid of the equality that lies at the heart of our Declaration of Independence made sure Black Americans could not have equal access to education.

In 1971, when segregation academies were gaining ground, the achievement gap between white and Black 8th grade students in reading scores was 57 points. In 1988, the year of the nation’s highest level of school integration, that gap had fallen to 18 points. By 1992, it was back up to 30 points, and it has not dropped below 25 points since.
Cant hear the name Nat Turner since the late 90s without thinking about this, for TLD:

This is not the first time I came to the planet
But every time I come, only a few could understand it
I came as Isis, my words they tried to ban it
I came as Moses, they couldn't follow my Commandments
I came as Solomon, to a people that was lost
I came as Jesus, but they nailed me to a cross
I came as Harriet Tubman, I put the truth to Sojourner
Other times, I had to come as Nat Turner
They tried to burn me, lynch me and starve me
So I had to come back as Marcus Garvey, Bob Marley

They tried to harm me, I used to be Malcolm X
Now I'm on the planet as the one called KRS
Kickin' the metaphysical, spiritual, tryin' to like
Get with you, showin' you, you are invincible
The Black Panther is the black answer for real
In my spiritual form, I turn into Bobby Seale
On the wheels of steel, my spirit flies away
And enters into Kwame Ture
The GOAT

As for Nat Turner:



Part of the Nat Turner fallout was slaves were banned from being educated.
Funny how a certain cohort proactively chooses to not get educated...
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Anyone near Broome Co NY may find this worth attending

https://www.vestalmuseum.org/2021/08/17 ... -festival/

CALENDAR

September 25, 2021 12-5PM
Coming Together: Annual Haudenosaunee Festival
The United States relationship to Haudenosaunee People and their Democratic Practices.
The Vestal Museum is proud to announce our 5th Annual Haudenosaunee Festival and Exhibition – COMING TOGETHER: The United States relationship to Haudenosaunee People and their Democratic Practices. Join us Saturday, September 25, 2021 on the Rail Trail in Vestal, NY from 12PM-5PM for our celebration of Haudenosaunee culture.
Featuring…
Keynote speakers:
1PM | Alf Jacques: Traditional Lacrosse Stick Maker for the Onondaga Nation
2PM | Dr. Sally Roesch Wagner: Author, lecturer & activist
3PM | Tony Gonyea: Traditional Wampum Belt Maker
4PM | Angela Ferguson: Traditional Corn Grower for the Onondaga Nation

and traditional Haudenosaunee cuisine, artists and music along the Rail Trail.
Art exhibition featuring objects on loan from the NY State Museum will run September 17 through November 20, 2021 at the Coal House.
The Haudenosaunee Festival 2021 was made possible with help from Visions Federal Credit Union, The Community Foundation for South Central New York, the Broome County Arts Council, the Vestal Historical Society, all featured Indigenous artists & community members, and the Town of Vestal.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15914
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by youthathletics »

A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27139
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:31 pm
Pretty darn dumb, not at all funny (IMO), but if it makes you feel better, go for it...
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5341
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by PizzaSnake »

“In 1869, an article published in De Bow’s Review cut right to the chase:

We will state the problem for consideration. It is: To retain in the hands of whites the control and direction of social and political action, without impairing the content of the labor capacity of the colored race. We assume the effort to restrain the political influence of the colored race in the South … has failed.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/opin ... labor.html
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5341
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by PizzaSnake »

"This is because the U.S. schools had a very specific purpose: They helped the government acquire Indian lands. Beginning with Carlisle in Pennsylvania in 1879 and ending with the Sherman Institute in California in 1903, the U.S. government operated 25 off-reservation boarding schools. (Some religious denominations also opened their own mission schools.) At the same time, a massive dispossession took place in the form of the General Allotment Act, which authorized the president to survey and divide Indian lands. Boarding schools, designed to reeducate Indian youth who would no longer have a tribal homeland, went hand in hand with this genocidal policy."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... ed-states/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act

'The Dawes Act of 1887 (also known as the General Allotment Act or the Dawes Severalty Act of 1887; named after Senator Henry L. Dawes of Massachusetts)[1][2] regulated land rights on tribal territories within the United States. It authorized the President of the United States to subdivide Native American tribal communal landholdings into allotments for Native American heads of families and individuals. This would convert traditional systems of land tenure into a government-imposed system of private property by forcing Native Americans to "assume a capitalist and proprietary relationship with property" that did not previously exist in their cultures.[3] The act allowed tribes the option to sell the lands that remained after allotment to the federal government. Before private property could be dispensed, the government had to determine "which Indians were eligible" for allotments, which propelled an "official search for a federal definition of Indian-ness."[4]'
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:16 am "This is because the U.S. schools had a very specific purpose: They helped the government acquire Indian lands. Beginning with Carlisle in Pennsylvania in 1879 and ending with the Sherman Institute in California in 1903, the U.S. government operated 25 off-reservation boarding schools. (Some religious denominations also opened their own mission schools.) At the same time, a massive dispossession took place in the form of the General Allotment Act, which authorized the president to survey and divide Indian lands. Boarding schools, designed to reeducate Indian youth who would no longer have a tribal homeland, went hand in hand with this genocidal policy."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... ed-states/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act

'The Dawes Act of 1887 (also known as the General Allotment Act or the Dawes Severalty Act of 1887; named after Senator Henry L. Dawes of Massachusetts)[1][2] regulated land rights on tribal territories within the United States. It authorized the President of the United States to subdivide Native American tribal communal landholdings into allotments for Native American heads of families and individuals. This would convert traditional systems of land tenure into a government-imposed system of private property by forcing Native Americans to "assume a capitalist and proprietary relationship with property" that did not previously exist in their cultures.[3] The act allowed tribes the option to sell the lands that remained after allotment to the federal government. Before private property could be dispensed, the government had to determine "which Indians were eligible" for allotments, which propelled an "official search for a federal definition of Indian-ness."[4]'
Dawes Act from the Dawes Roll - very explicitly why Warren is a liar and her doubling down on being Cherokee is gross.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34214
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:18 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:16 am "This is because the U.S. schools had a very specific purpose: They helped the government acquire Indian lands. Beginning with Carlisle in Pennsylvania in 1879 and ending with the Sherman Institute in California in 1903, the U.S. government operated 25 off-reservation boarding schools. (Some religious denominations also opened their own mission schools.) At the same time, a massive dispossession took place in the form of the General Allotment Act, which authorized the president to survey and divide Indian lands. Boarding schools, designed to reeducate Indian youth who would no longer have a tribal homeland, went hand in hand with this genocidal policy."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... ed-states/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act

'The Dawes Act of 1887 (also known as the General Allotment Act or the Dawes Severalty Act of 1887; named after Senator Henry L. Dawes of Massachusetts)[1][2] regulated land rights on tribal territories within the United States. It authorized the President of the United States to subdivide Native American tribal communal landholdings into allotments for Native American heads of families and individuals. This would convert traditional systems of land tenure into a government-imposed system of private property by forcing Native Americans to "assume a capitalist and proprietary relationship with property" that did not previously exist in their cultures.[3] The act allowed tribes the option to sell the lands that remained after allotment to the federal government. Before private property could be dispensed, the government had to determine "which Indians were eligible" for allotments, which propelled an "official search for a federal definition of Indian-ness."[4]'
Dawes Act from the Dawes Roll - very explicitly why Warren is a liar and her doubling down on being Cherokee is gross.
Warren had no native ancestry?
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:23 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:18 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:16 am "This is because the U.S. schools had a very specific purpose: They helped the government acquire Indian lands. Beginning with Carlisle in Pennsylvania in 1879 and ending with the Sherman Institute in California in 1903, the U.S. government operated 25 off-reservation boarding schools. (Some religious denominations also opened their own mission schools.) At the same time, a massive dispossession took place in the form of the General Allotment Act, which authorized the president to survey and divide Indian lands. Boarding schools, designed to reeducate Indian youth who would no longer have a tribal homeland, went hand in hand with this genocidal policy."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... ed-states/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act

'The Dawes Act of 1887 (also known as the General Allotment Act or the Dawes Severalty Act of 1887; named after Senator Henry L. Dawes of Massachusetts)[1][2] regulated land rights on tribal territories within the United States. It authorized the President of the United States to subdivide Native American tribal communal landholdings into allotments for Native American heads of families and individuals. This would convert traditional systems of land tenure into a government-imposed system of private property by forcing Native Americans to "assume a capitalist and proprietary relationship with property" that did not previously exist in their cultures.[3] The act allowed tribes the option to sell the lands that remained after allotment to the federal government. Before private property could be dispensed, the government had to determine "which Indians were eligible" for allotments, which propelled an "official search for a federal definition of Indian-ness."[4]'
Dawes Act from the Dawes Roll - very explicitly why Warren is a liar and her doubling down on being Cherokee is gross.
Warren had no native ancestry?
She got an ancestry.com type test and it was like 1/1064th. But not the Us, the cherokees have state flat out of your family isn’t listed on the Dawes roll you aren’t cherokee. Not just a white Anglo convention. That’s one thing I can’t let go with her. Even before the doubling down which make her look petty, craven and stupid. It’s that parochial Mass attitude where she won’t even listen to the people she claims as her own and does what she wants. She doesn’t even represent natives or understand differences in people if she thinks DNA represents a race or culture. Should’ve been a telling signal of her honesty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo ... 15437.html



The Dawes Commission went to the individual tribes to obtain the membership lists, but it took a series of attempts to gain anything near to an accurate count. In 1898, Congress passed the Curtis Act, which provided that a new roll would be taken and supersede all previous rolls. Difficulties in enumerating the population included the forced migrations of the period as well as the American Civil War.[5][6] Additionally, non-Native census takers introduced the idea of Blood Quantum, a concept previously foreign to the tribal communities.[7] Those recording this percentage of ancestry wrote down an estimation, based on physical appearance and personal opinion if the individual was present.[5][6]

Tribal citizens were listed under several categories:

Citizen by Blood
New Born Citizen by Blood
Minor Citizens by Blood
Citizen by Marriage
Freedmen (persons formerly enslaved by Native Americans and/or adopted by the Cherokee tribe)
New Born Freedmen
Minor Freedmen
Delaware Indians (those adopted by the Cherokee tribe were enrolled as a separate group within the Cherokee)
More than 250,000 people applied for membership, and the Dawes Commission enrolled just over 100,000. Most were rejected because they were non-Natives who showed up demanding land, but could not prove any connection to an existing Native community, such as naming living relatives or speaking the Native language. Overrun with prospective claimants, the commission was overwhelmed, and had to institute guidelines:

It rejected the unconscionable claim that a white person once admitted into the tribe by marriage to an Indian could confer citizenship upon any white person whom he might afterwards marry and upon his white descendants. It also uncovered a great mass of nauseous evidence, and rejected a large number of claims upon the ground they had been advanced through perjury and forgery.[2]
An act of Congress on April 26, 1906, closed the rolls on March 5, 1907. An additional 312 persons were enrolled under an act approved August 1, 1914.

While some initially refused to be enumerated, almost all were later arrested and enrolled against their will; enrollment was not a matter of "choice."[4][8] Refusing to be enumerated, and even fleeing, would mean warrants being issued for the person's arrest; they could then be treated brutally and imprisoned in the process of being enrolled by force.[4][8] Still, due to understandable distrust of the government, there were those who tried to avoid ennumeration. Notable among those who resisted were Muscogee Chitto Harjo (Crazy Snake), and Cherokee Redbird Smith. But both Harjo and Smith were eventually coerced into enrolling. According to Cherokee professor Steve Russell, some Natives hiding in the Cookson Hills never did enroll,[9] but some of them were later arrested and forcibly enrolled, while others were enrolled on their behalf by people in their communities. Additionally all individuals on the Census Roll of 1896 were enrolled without notification to the parties involved.[10] The only real choice to avoid enumeration entirely meant completely leaving one's community and assimilating.[4][8] Since that period, the tribes have relied on the Dawes Rolls as part of the membership qualification process, using them as records of citizens at a particular time, and requiring new members to document direct descent from a person or persons on these rolls.[11][5] Courts have upheld this rule even when it has been proven that a brother or sister of an ancestor was listed on the rolls but not the direct ancestor himself/herself.

Another issue on the Dawes Rolls are people termed "Five-Dollar Indians." Some white people bribed government officials in order to get land allotments, but this was not as widespread as some would believe.[12][2]

Gregory Smithers, associate professor of history at Virginia Commonwealth University stated, "These were opportunistic white men who wanted access to land or food rations. ... These were people who were more than happy to exploit the Dawes Commission – and government agents, for $5, were willing to turn a blind eye to the graft and corruption."[12] For the small minority that managed this, this fraudulent enrollment may have earned white people potential benefits for themselves and their descendants, but also could have subjected them to further removal, relocation or incarceration; there were also land runs during this time, and other ways for white people to get land.[4] Most of the white people on the Dawes roll are noted as included due to marrying a member of the tribe, and having Indian children.[2]

The Dawes Rolls, though recognized as flawed, are still essential to the citizenship process of the Nations that include them in their laws.[5][6] The federal government uses them in determining blood-quantum status of individuals for Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood.[5]
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34214
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Is America a racist nation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:32 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:23 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:18 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:16 am "This is because the U.S. schools had a very specific purpose: They helped the government acquire Indian lands. Beginning with Carlisle in Pennsylvania in 1879 and ending with the Sherman Institute in California in 1903, the U.S. government operated 25 off-reservation boarding schools. (Some religious denominations also opened their own mission schools.) At the same time, a massive dispossession took place in the form of the General Allotment Act, which authorized the president to survey and divide Indian lands. Boarding schools, designed to reeducate Indian youth who would no longer have a tribal homeland, went hand in hand with this genocidal policy."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... ed-states/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act

'The Dawes Act of 1887 (also known as the General Allotment Act or the Dawes Severalty Act of 1887; named after Senator Henry L. Dawes of Massachusetts)[1][2] regulated land rights on tribal territories within the United States. It authorized the President of the United States to subdivide Native American tribal communal landholdings into allotments for Native American heads of families and individuals. This would convert traditional systems of land tenure into a government-imposed system of private property by forcing Native Americans to "assume a capitalist and proprietary relationship with property" that did not previously exist in their cultures.[3] The act allowed tribes the option to sell the lands that remained after allotment to the federal government. Before private property could be dispensed, the government had to determine "which Indians were eligible" for allotments, which propelled an "official search for a federal definition of Indian-ness."[4]'
Dawes Act from the Dawes Roll - very explicitly why Warren is a liar and her doubling down on being Cherokee is gross.
Warren had no native ancestry?
She got an ancestry.com type test and it was like 1/1064th. But not the Us, the cherokees have state flat out of your family isn’t listed on the Dawes roll you aren’t cherokee. Not just a white Anglo convention. That’s one thing I can’t let go with her. Even before the doubling down which make her look petty, craven and stupid. It’s that parochial Mass attitude where she won’t even listen to the people she claims as her own and does what she wants. She doesn’t even represent natives or understand differences in people if she thinks DNA represents a race or culture. Should’ve been a telling signal of her honesty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo ... 15437.html



The Dawes Commission went to the individual tribes to obtain the membership lists, but it took a series of attempts to gain anything near to an accurate count. In 1898, Congress passed the Curtis Act, which provided that a new roll would be taken and supersede all previous rolls. Difficulties in enumerating the population included the forced migrations of the period as well as the American Civil War.[5][6] Additionally, non-Native census takers introduced the idea of Blood Quantum, a concept previously foreign to the tribal communities.[7] Those recording this percentage of ancestry wrote down an estimation, based on physical appearance and personal opinion if the individual was present.[5][6]

Tribal citizens were listed under several categories:

Citizen by Blood
New Born Citizen by Blood
Minor Citizens by Blood
Citizen by Marriage
Freedmen (persons formerly enslaved by Native Americans and/or adopted by the Cherokee tribe)
New Born Freedmen
Minor Freedmen
Delaware Indians (those adopted by the Cherokee tribe were enrolled as a separate group within the Cherokee)
More than 250,000 people applied for membership, and the Dawes Commission enrolled just over 100,000. Most were rejected because they were non-Natives who showed up demanding land, but could not prove any connection to an existing Native community, such as naming living relatives or speaking the Native language. Overrun with prospective claimants, the commission was overwhelmed, and had to institute guidelines:

It rejected the unconscionable claim that a white person once admitted into the tribe by marriage to an Indian could confer citizenship upon any white person whom he might afterwards marry and upon his white descendants. It also uncovered a great mass of nauseous evidence, and rejected a large number of claims upon the ground they had been advanced through perjury and forgery.[2]
An act of Congress on April 26, 1906, closed the rolls on March 5, 1907. An additional 312 persons were enrolled under an act approved August 1, 1914.

While some initially refused to be enumerated, almost all were later arrested and enrolled against their will; enrollment was not a matter of "choice."[4][8] Refusing to be enumerated, and even fleeing, would mean warrants being issued for the person's arrest; they could then be treated brutally and imprisoned in the process of being enrolled by force.[4][8] Still, due to understandable distrust of the government, there were those who tried to avoid ennumeration. Notable among those who resisted were Muscogee Chitto Harjo (Crazy Snake), and Cherokee Redbird Smith. But both Harjo and Smith were eventually coerced into enrolling. According to Cherokee professor Steve Russell, some Natives hiding in the Cookson Hills never did enroll,[9] but some of them were later arrested and forcibly enrolled, while others were enrolled on their behalf by people in their communities. Additionally all individuals on the Census Roll of 1896 were enrolled without notification to the parties involved.[10] The only real choice to avoid enumeration entirely meant completely leaving one's community and assimilating.[4][8] Since that period, the tribes have relied on the Dawes Rolls as part of the membership qualification process, using them as records of citizens at a particular time, and requiring new members to document direct descent from a person or persons on these rolls.[11][5] Courts have upheld this rule even when it has been proven that a brother or sister of an ancestor was listed on the rolls but not the direct ancestor himself/herself.

Another issue on the Dawes Rolls are people termed "Five-Dollar Indians." Some white people bribed government officials in order to get land allotments, but this was not as widespread as some would believe.[12][2]

Gregory Smithers, associate professor of history at Virginia Commonwealth University stated, "These were opportunistic white men who wanted access to land or food rations. ... These were people who were more than happy to exploit the Dawes Commission – and government agents, for $5, were willing to turn a blind eye to the graft and corruption."[12] For the small minority that managed this, this fraudulent enrollment may have earned white people potential benefits for themselves and their descendants, but also could have subjected them to further removal, relocation or incarceration; there were also land runs during this time, and other ways for white people to get land.[4] Most of the white people on the Dawes roll are noted as included due to marrying a member of the tribe, and having Indian children.[2]

The Dawes Rolls, though recognized as flawed, are still essential to the citizenship process of the Nations that include them in their laws.[5][6] The federal government uses them in determining blood-quantum status of individuals for Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood.[5]
Thanks. Sometimes people only know what the family has always told them….. like this guy.

“I wish you would!”
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