Trump's Russian Collusion

[seacoaster]

You're kicking up sand & dodging the question.

Pot meet kettle. You've given us three years of every excuse you can come up with as to why it's ok for the leader of the free world and his team to lie, bend rules, and abuse power. Or, most frequently, you ignore posters who get mad at this stuff.

And now here you are, demanding we get mad at the FBI for lying, bending rules, and abusing power.

When the FBI does it, you're furious. When Trump does it, not only do you not care, you make fun of your fellow posters for getting mad about Trump's behavior.

So really, I don't know what to tell you other than: what comes around, goes around. Enjoy all this corruption that you yourself have encouraged.

We've all agreed that Trump's a bad guy. Our fellow citizens voted him into office. There's nothing we can do about it, so get over it.
Skeezy behavior is not a crime. Suspicion & innuendo are not proof.
Trump will pass from the scene. Until he does, get a grip & make the best of it.

So...how "bad a guy" would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?
To be removed?

Or is a POTUS above the law (as long as his party is in power)?
No matter what the corruption or abuse?

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Spoken like a real honor code guy. Jesus.

[old salt]

You're kicking up sand & dodging the question.

Pot meet kettle. You've given us three years of every excuse you can come up with as to why it's ok for the leader of the free world and his team to lie, bend rules, and abuse power. Or, most frequently, you ignore posters who get mad at this stuff.

And now here you are, demanding we get mad at the FBI for lying, bending rules, and abusing power.

When the FBI does it, you're furious. When Trump does it, not only do you not care, you make fun of your fellow posters for getting mad about Trump's behavior.

So really, I don't know what to tell you other than: what comes around, goes around. Enjoy all this corruption that you yourself have encouraged.

We've all agreed that Trump's a bad guy. Our fellow citizens voted him into office. There's nothing we can do about it, so get over it.
Skeezy behavior is not a crime. Suspicion & innuendo are not proof.
Trump will pass from the scene. Until he does, get a grip & make the best of it.

So...how "bad a guy" would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?
To be removed?

Or is a POTUS above the law (as long as his party is in power)?
No matter what the corruption or abuse?

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Spoken like a real honor code guy. Jesus.

Or someone who can read the Constitution & do basic math.
Would you like me to stage a coup ? Wait. That was just tried & failed.

[holmes435]

ZZZzzzzzzzzz

Speaks volumes. Shame on you.

[holmes435]

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Serious question. What would Trump have to do to get 20 (R) votes to remove?

Party above country is un-American.

[calourie]

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Serious question. What would Trump have to do to get 20 (R) votes to remove?

Party above country is un-American.

How is an attempt to investigate and get at the truth as to whether Trump actually did use his office to strong arm a vulnerable foreign government into making pronouncements of investigations that were quite possibly (and to my thinking probably, and no, Old Salt, this is not a function of TDS as you have so glibly and erroneously attributed to some past comments I have made) only for the political benefit for himself as in the case of dirtying up his political rival Biden, or egotistical benefit for himself in trying to establish "crowdstrike" as the basis for all the hubbub around the 2016 election interference just a "tiresome political stunt". At least Salty avoided the use of the words "sham" and "hoax" in this context, but "tiresome political stunt" is close to being as dismissive. This impeachment proceeding won't get at the truth of whatever happened because the executive branch of our government refuses to comply with the release of documents or allow the testimony of witnesses who might clear up this mess, and the entire delegation of congressional republicans has no interest in fulfilling its' constitutional duty in helping to see that happens for fear of the political damage it might do to themselves. So this matter will be virtually ignored by a republican controlled senate , and get dragged on into the 2020 election as a referendum on how closely we should adhere or not to our Constitution in the future. Tiresome political stunt my rump.

[Trinity]

DC Fed Ct Judge Casey Cooper orders State Dept to turn over ALL communications between Pompeo & Giuliani after State Dept arbitrarily tries to limit disclosures to communications before Aug 2.

[seacoaster]

You're kicking up sand & dodging the question.

Pot meet kettle. You've given us three years of every excuse you can come up with as to why it's ok for the leader of the free world and his team to lie, bend rules, and abuse power. Or, most frequently, you ignore posters who get mad at this stuff.

And now here you are, demanding we get mad at the FBI for lying, bending rules, and abusing power.

When the FBI does it, you're furious. When Trump does it, not only do you not care, you make fun of your fellow posters for getting mad about Trump's behavior.

So really, I don't know what to tell you other than: what comes around, goes around. Enjoy all this corruption that you yourself have encouraged.

We've all agreed that Trump's a bad guy. Our fellow citizens voted him into office. There's nothing we can do about it, so get over it.
Skeezy behavior is not a crime. Suspicion & innuendo are not proof.
Trump will pass from the scene. Until he does, get a grip & make the best of it.

So...how "bad a guy" would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?
To be removed?

Or is a POTUS above the law (as long as his party is in power)?
No matter what the corruption or abuse?

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Spoken like a real honor code guy. Jesus.

Or someone who can read the Constitution & do basic math.
Would you like me to stage a coup ? Wait. That was just tried & failed.

The "math" isn't the point. Fidelity to the process, the oath, the meaning of the words of the Constitution: these are the things that matter. If you ever had sight of those things, they have been lost by you in the fog of party politics. You use the hackneyed "TDS" line to dismiss people, but we all know that if President Obama had done the same things, you'd pretend outrage. So walk your dog and recall the days when opposing the Russians "mattered."

[Typical Lax Dad]

You're kicking up sand & dodging the question.

Pot meet kettle. You've given us three years of every excuse you can come up with as to why it's ok for the leader of the free world and his team to lie, bend rules, and abuse power. Or, most frequently, you ignore posters who get mad at this stuff.

And now here you are, demanding we get mad at the FBI for lying, bending rules, and abusing power.

When the FBI does it, you're furious. When Trump does it, not only do you not care, you make fun of your fellow posters for getting mad about Trump's behavior.

So really, I don't know what to tell you other than: what comes around, goes around. Enjoy all this corruption that you yourself have encouraged.

We've all agreed that Trump's a bad guy. Our fellow citizens voted him into office. There's nothing we can do about it, so get over it.
Skeezy behavior is not a crime. Suspicion & innuendo are not proof.
Trump will pass from the scene. Until he does, get a grip & make the best of it.

So...how "bad a guy" would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?
To be removed?

Or is a POTUS above the law (as long as his party is in power)?
No matter what the corruption or abuse?

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Spoken like a real honor code guy. Jesus.

Or someone who can read the Constitution & do basic math.
Would you like me to stage a coup ? Wait. That was just tried & failed.

So the democrats take over the government after the coup or is the coup by republicans that are seeking to take control?

[jhu72]

I thought the last few weeks have been very telling. Two different hearings in two different houses, but largely the same result. Democrats behaving rationally, sanely in both, questioning witnesses, listening to witnesses. But for the opening few minutes of the Senate hearing, and Ben Sasse's questioning, republicans behaving like children, no interest in listening to the witnesses, personal attacks on the witnesses and the democrats, never really coming to terms with the witness testimony. It is crystal clear who won these encounters and who lost. The adults won. This is a good thing.

The republicans' only play is spin. They and their base are losing and more desperate. Worrying about "owning" democrats is not nearly as effective as "owning" the truth.

[MDlaxfan76]

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Serious question. What would Trump have to do to get 20 (R) votes to remove?

Party above country is un-American.

I asked fundamentally the same question...how bad would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?

Salty doesn't care...nothing is so egregious that he would argue country over party.
The only test is whether enough Senators of the POTUS' party would think so.

He'll respond to this by saying we are (or I am) putting words in his mouth, but until he tells us otherwise, that's the only conclusion to draw.

[MDlaxfan76]

I thought the last few weeks have been very telling. Two different hearings in two different houses, but largely the same result. Democrats behaving rationally, sanely in both, questioning witnesses, listening to witnesses. But for the opening few minutes of the Senate hearing, and Ben Sasse's questioning, republicans behaving like children, no interest in listening to the witnesses, personal attacks on the witnesses and the democrats, never really coming to terms with the witness testimony. It is crystal clear who won these encounters and who lost. The adults won. This is a good thing.

The republicans' only play is spin. They and their base are losing and more desperate. Worrying about "owning" democrats is not nearly as effective as "owning" the truth.

At least not for history.
The problem is that the victors write the history...and the only way the Trumpists can be the 'victors' over the longer term is to institute a de facto dictatorship and start eliminating 'competition'. Demographics crush them otherwise.

[youthathletics]

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Serious question. What would Trump have to do to get 20 (R) votes to remove?

Party above country is un-American.

I asked fundamentally the same question...how bad would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?

Salty doesn't care...nothing is so egregious that he would argue country over party.
The only test is whether enough Senators of the POTUS' party would think so.

He'll respond to this by saying we are (or I am) putting words in his mouth, but until he tells us otherwise, that's the only conclusion to draw.

I am curious to first see how the House vote comes out...that'll be quite telling, especially the those in jeopardizing districts. I have heard politco has requested what their vote will be and provided ample time to reply...and none have reported back.

[MDlaxfan76]

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Serious question. What would Trump have to do to get 20 (R) votes to remove?

Party above country is un-American.

I asked fundamentally the same question...how bad would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?

Salty doesn't care...nothing is so egregious that he would argue country over party.
The only test is whether enough Senators of the POTUS' party would think so.

He'll respond to this by saying we are (or I am) putting words in his mouth, but until he tells us otherwise, that's the only conclusion to draw.

I am curious to first see how the House vote comes out...that'll be quite telling, especially the those in jeopardizing districts. I have heard politco has requested what their vote will be and provided ample time to reply...and none have reported back.

There are a handful of vulnerable Dems who may get the green light from Pelosi to vote no or to abstain.
The one R (now former R, now Ind...a conservative) who previously supported impeachment after actually bothering to read the Mueller Report, remains a vote for impeachment.

There are very few vulnerable GOP House seats at this point, as the Dems already won so many of them a year ago in a landslide. Indeed a bunch of big surprises, easily lost back.

The more interesting question is what the vulnerable GOP Senators will do.
They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
They'll get primaried from the right if they vote their conscience to convict, yet will very likely lose the general if they vote no.
Either way, those Senator's seats will likely be up for the Dem's to gain in '20.
The only way they hold them if for the GOP to not primary them...not likely in the Trump era.

Probably still not enough to regain the Senate for the Dems, absent a sea swing down the stretch.

Not sure there are any Dem Senators actually vulnerable, so I doubt there will be any defections on their side.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Bad enough to get 67 Senate votes to remove, or 20 (R) Senate votes, in this case.

Until then, this is just a tiresome campaign stunt.

Serious question. What would Trump have to do to get 20 (R) votes to remove?

Party above country is un-American.

I asked fundamentally the same question...how bad would he need to be to deserve to be impeached?

Salty doesn't care...nothing is so egregious that he would argue country over party.
The only test is whether enough Senators of the POTUS' party would think so.

He'll respond to this by saying we are (or I am) putting words in his mouth, but until he tells us otherwise, that's the only conclusion to draw.

I am curious to first see how the House vote comes out...that'll be quite telling, especially the those in jeopardizing districts. I have heard politco has requested what their vote will be and provided ample time to reply...and none have reported back.

It’s all about politics. Right and wrong is basically irrelevant. A politician’s #1 objective is to stay in office.

[a fan]

We've all agreed that Trump's a bad guy. Our fellow citizens voted him into office. There's nothing we can do about it, so get over it.

Do the board a favor, and stop with this nonsense.

Do you remember anyone at any time during 8 years of non-stop complaining from you during Obama's reign telling you, "get over it, there's nothing we can do about it"??? No. Your fellow posters treated your complaints with respect. Did we at times realize that with you, no matter what Obama did, you'd tell us it was wrong? Yes. And it turns out we were right. But we still discussed your complaints. And we sure as *hit didn't say you "had ODS" with a sneer.

Show your fellow posters the same courtesy we showed you.

Skeezy behavior is not a crime. Suspicion & innuendo are not proof.

Problem here is that you say this when it comes to Trump. But when it comes to the Deep State, out comes the tinfoil with no proof. You can't even name the people who leaked, or from which government department they came from....but that doesn't keep you from your manic broad brush condemnations.

Trump will pass from the scene. Until he does, get a grip & make the best of it.

I did that two years ago. He's lining my pockets at the expense of voters who are too busy being happy at Trump's petty tweets at children (?!) to notice he is systematically leaving TrumpNation with zero economic hope, while he lines the pockets of big city liberals.

What won't pass from the scene is you and everyone else who either cheered Trump on, or made excuses for him every step of the way. The next President, regardless of party, will be worse because of this foppishness. You think Trump is a speedbump. He's not. The problem isn't Trump. The problem is you and everyone else who moves the line, and moves the line, and moves the line....until there's no line at all for the next President to cross.

On the other hand, the FBI are supposed to be the good guys. They were hired, not elected, to protect us & our rights.

First of all, nope. They're appointed. Want to separate the FBI from politics and make them actually be independent of political appointments? Sign me up. Until then, you're going to have to deal with politics.

Second of all, I dismiss your assertion here out of hand. You think the FBI should be held to a higher standard than the leader of the free world. Sorry mate, that's not just insane, it's dangerous.

No matter what FBi does, it doesn't justify doing what Trump did.

Fixed it for you. And this is at the heart of my gripes with you. I treat both the FBI and Trump equally. Get caught leaking? Great. Indict them, and move on.

For 3 years you've been ridiculing me as a FNC watching tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, without giving me credit for calling out what was going on, as soon as it happened, with every leak.

Again, you want the FBI to be perfect. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. But I didn't ridicule you for getting upset over leaks. What I said, for the last time, is that by and large, you don't know who is doing the leaking....and the leaking didn't start with the arrival of Trump. Both statements are factually true. What I was ridiculing you for was doing the same thing Maddow and other RussiaGate posters were doing.....making wild speculations that had no basis in fact.

That, and pointing out that it's obvious that Trump's own people are leaking. And that the undermining you are sure is happening ain't a bunch of libs....it's Trump's own appointees who actually have to work with the man, and know full well the emperor has no clothes.

[Kismet]

Not sure there are any Dem Senators actually vulnerable, so I doubt there will be any defections on their side.

Not so sure about that - Jones (AL), Sinema (AZ) and Manchin (WV) - the latter two are not up in 2020 but neither are sure votes for removal.

[MDlaxfan76]

Not sure there are any Dem Senators actually vulnerable, so I doubt there will be any defections on their side.

Not so sure about that - Jones (AL), Sinema (AZ) and Manchin (WV) - the latter two are not up in 2020 but neither are sure votes for removal.

Good point.
Jones is most likely to lose either way, he only won because his opponent was so reprehensible.

[a fan]

double post

[old salt]

We've all agreed that Trump's a bad guy. Our fellow citizens voted him into office. There's nothing we can do about it, so get over it.

Do the board a favor, and stop with this nonsense.

Do you remember anyone at any time during 8 years of non-stop complaining from you during Obama's reign telling you, "get over it, there's nothing we can do about it"??? No. Your fellow posters treated your complaints with respect. Did we at times realize that with you, no matter what Obama did, you'd tell us it was wrong? Yes. And it turns out we were right. But we still discussed your complaints. And we sure as *hit didn't say you and ODS with a sneer.

Show your fellow posters the same courtesy we showed you.

Skeezy behavior is not a crime. Suspicion & innuendo are not proof.

Problem here is that you say this when it comes to Trump. But when it comes to the Deep State, out comes the tinfoil with no proof. You can't even name the people who leaked, or from which government department they came from....but that doesn't keep you from your manic broad brush condemnations.

Trump will pass from the scene. Until he does, get a grip & make the best of it.

I did that two years ago. He's lining my pockets at the expense of voters who are too busy being happy at Trump's petty tweets at children (?!) to notice he is systematically leaving TrumpNation with zero economic hope, while he lines the pockets of big city liberals.

What won't pass from the scene is you and everyone else who either cheered Trump on, or made excuses for him every step of the way. The next President, regardless of party, will be worse because of this foppishness. You think Trump is a speedbump. He's not. The problem isn't Trump. The problem is you and everyone else who moves the line, and moves the line, and moves the line....until there's no line at all for the next President to cross.

On the other hand, the FBI are supposed to be the good guys. They were hired, not elected, to protect us & our rights.

First of all, nope. They're appointed. Want to separate the FBI from politics and make them actually be independent of political appointments? Sign me up. Until then, you're going to have to deal with politics.

Second of all, I dismiss your assertion here out of hand. You think the FBI should be held to a higher standard than the leader of the free world. Sorry mate, that's not just insane, it's dangerous.

No matter what FBi does, it doesn't justify doing what Trump did.

Fixed it for you. And this is at the heart of my gripes with you. I treat both the FBI and Trump equally. Get caught leaking? Great. Indict them, and move on.

For 3 years you've been ridiculing me as a FNC watching tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, without giving me credit for calling out what was going on, as soon as it happened, with every leak.

Again, you want the FBI to be perfect. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. But I didn't ridicule you for getting upset over leaks. What I said, for the last time, is that by and large, you don't know who is doing the leaking....and the leaking didn't start with the arrival of Trump. Both statements are factually true. What I was ridiculing you for was doing the same thing Maddow and other RussiaGate posters were doing.....making wild speculations that had no basis in fact.

That, and pointing out that it's obvious that Trump's own people are leaking. And that the undermining you are sure is happening ain't a bunch of libs....it's Trump's own appointees who actually have to work with the man, and know full well the emperor has no clothes.

Boo Hoo. I'm doing the TDS zombies a favor. They need a target to personally attack, because they're helpless otherwise & need to vent.
Trump is President until voted out of office or impeached & convicted. That's not going to happen without provable crimes, sufficient to generate bi-partisan support for removal, as the founders intended.
The personal attacks on anyone who disagrees, wrapped in virtue signalling, sanctimonious blather, are just sore loser sour grapes.
We're finally getting the evidence of how corrupt the Resistance & MSM have been in their concerted effort to sabotage the Trump campaign & Presidency. The concept of a loyal opposition is dead. The impeachment process has been trivialized & turned into just another campaign tactic.
Trump's our duly elected President & CinC. Get over it. It will likely be over in less that a year. The Republic will survive & prosper.

[MDlaxfan76]

We've all agreed that Trump's a bad guy. Our fellow citizens voted him into office. There's nothing we can do about it, so get over it.

Do the board a favor, and stop with this nonsense.

Do you remember anyone at any time during 8 years of non-stop complaining from you during Obama's reign telling you, "get over it, there's nothing we can do about it"??? No. Your fellow posters treated your complaints with respect. Did we at times realize that with you, no matter what Obama did, you'd tell us it was wrong? Yes. And it turns out we were right. But we still discussed your complaints. And we sure as *hit didn't say you and ODS with a sneer.

Show your fellow posters the same courtesy we showed you.

Skeezy behavior is not a crime. Suspicion & innuendo are not proof.

Problem here is that you say this when it comes to Trump. But when it comes to the Deep State, out comes the tinfoil with no proof. You can't even name the people who leaked, or from which government department they came from....but that doesn't keep you from your manic broad brush condemnations.

Trump will pass from the scene. Until he does, get a grip & make the best of it.

I did that two years ago. He's lining my pockets at the expense of voters who are too busy being happy at Trump's petty tweets at children (?!) to notice he is systematically leaving TrumpNation with zero economic hope, while he lines the pockets of big city liberals.

What won't pass from the scene is you and everyone else who either cheered Trump on, or made excuses for him every step of the way. The next President, regardless of party, will be worse because of this foppishness. You think Trump is a speedbump. He's not. The problem isn't Trump. The problem is you and everyone else who moves the line, and moves the line, and moves the line....until there's no line at all for the next President to cross.

On the other hand, the FBI are supposed to be the good guys. They were hired, not elected, to protect us & our rights.

First of all, nope. They're appointed. Want to separate the FBI from politics and make them actually be independent of political appointments? Sign me up. Until then, you're going to have to deal with politics.

Second of all, I dismiss your assertion here out of hand. You think the FBI should be held to a higher standard than the leader of the free world. Sorry mate, that's not just insane, it's dangerous.

No matter what FBi does, it doesn't justify doing what Trump did.

Fixed it for you. And this is at the heart of my gripes with you. I treat both the FBI and Trump equally. Get caught leaking? Great. Indict them, and move on.

For 3 years you've been ridiculing me as a FNC watching tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, without giving me credit for calling out what was going on, as soon as it happened, with every leak.

Again, you want the FBI to be perfect. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. But I didn't ridicule you for getting upset over leaks. What I said, for the last time, is that by and large, you don't know who is doing the leaking....and the leaking didn't start with the arrival of Trump. Both statements are factually true. What I was ridiculing you for was doing the same thing Maddow and other RussiaGate posters were doing.....making wild speculations that had no basis in fact.

That, and pointing out that it's obvious that Trump's own people are leaking. And that the undermining you are sure is happening ain't a bunch of libs....it's Trump's own appointees who actually have to work with the man, and know full well the emperor has no clothes.

Boo Hoo. I'm doing the TDS zombies a favor. They need a target to personally attack, because they're helpless otherwise & need to vent.
Trump is President until voted out of office or impeached & convicted. That's not going to happen without provable crimes, sufficient to generate bi-partisan support for removal, as the founders intended.
The personal attacks on anyone who disagrees, wrapped in virtue signalling, sanctimonious blather, are just sore loser sour grapes.
We're finally getting the evidence of how corrupt the Resistance & MSM have been in their concerted effort to sabotage the Trump campaign & Presidency. The concept of a loyal opposition is dead. The impeachment process has been trivialized & turned into just another campaign tactic.
Trump's our duly elected President & CinC. Get over it. It will likely be over in less that a year. The Republic will survive & prosper.

From your lips to God's ears.

The whining of the Trumpists about it's all so unfair that Trump gets called out for his misdeeds, and the Trumpists for their toadying...