Trump's Russian Collusion

[a fan]

I was pointing out how presumptuous it is for Dr Hill & LCOL Vindman to imply that it is.

And I'm pointing out that after article after article from guys like Tillerson and B Woodward that this is precisely what is happening all over the globe.....people like Dr. Hill are steering and implementing US policy without Trump knowing, because he either doesn't care, or can't hold a consistent thought in his head long enough to give our diplomats and policy wonks direction. So they're doing it themselves, frequently before Trump lands to "do business" in whatever country he's traveling in.

Picture Trump as your mid level officer, leading you into battle. How long before you ignore him and instead, listen to your NCO's to do your job?

I don't know how many more times I have to tell you this is what our rank and file government workers are doing before you'll hear me.

[Typical Lax Dad]

More on why Obama & Clapper were out to get Flynn.
They didn't like what he told them about Afghanistan.
https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-fl ... rt-2019-12

Flynn was a disruptor, like Trump.
It made him a brilliant wafighting intel officer.
He didn't know how to play the DC game.
Unlike Trump, he wasn't elected. He was expendable.

Flynn's prosecutors couldn't even keep straight which agent wrote which Form 302.
Murky timeline on their origin & chain of custody
Comey laughed in an interview about how he set up Flynn.
...let's see who gets the last laugh.

He had a good career until he was corrupted. It often ends that way for folks that hitch their train to Trump’s wagon.... have you not noticed? Flynn is a liar. FULL STOP.

[old salt]

I was pointing out how presumptuous it is for Dr Hill & LCOL Vindman to imply that it is.

And I'm pointing out that after article after article from guys like Tillerson and B Woodward that this is precisely what is happening all over the globe.....people like Dr. Hill are steering and implementing US policy without Trump knowing, because he either doesn't care, or can't hold a consistent thought in his head long enough to give our diplomats and policy wonks direction. So they're doing it themselves, frequently before Trump lands to "do business" in whatever country he's traveling in.

Picture Trump as your mid level officer, leading you into battle. How long before you ignore him and instead, listen to your NCO's to do your job?

I don't know how many more times I have to tell you this is what our rank and file government workers are doing before you'll hear me.

They're not steering & implementing US policy.
They just think they are, until Trump jerks them back to reality.
What do you think US public opinion is re. Ukraine joining NATO ?
obtw -- it's not a unilateral US decision.

[a fan]

They just think they are, until Trump jerks them back to reality.

You of all people know that no such thing is occurring. Trump's "policies" are ethereal, whimsical, and change via twitter FFS.

Work is being done to move Ukraine into NATO. That's where these polices start and end half of the time. Now that Trump is in power? We get brand new policies based on the whims of whatever has Hannity's attention for an hour.

What do you think US public opinion is re. Ukraine joining NATO ?

I think the US public don't know what the hell NATO is, let alone where Ukraine is. That's why policy wonks and subject specialists rule the day, and dictate policy..

obtw -- it's not a unilateral US decision.

I know. But let's not forget how hard Trump is pushing on pendulums all over the world, simply because he's a disagreeable fellow...

[CU88]

Anti-Corruption o d?

Not it he meets and talks with Putin 16 times with no preconditions:

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1 ... 7642599425

[seacoaster]

Maybe take the Free Mike Flynn stuff to its own thread?

[Typical Lax Dad]

They just think they are, until Trump jerks them back to reality.

You of all people know that no such thing is occurring. Trump's "policies" are ethereal, whimsical, and change via twitter FFS.

Work is being done to move Ukraine into NATO. That's where these polices start and end half of the time. Now that Trump is in power? We get brand new policies based on the whims of whatever has Hannity's attention for an hour.

What do you think US public opinion is re. Ukraine joining NATO ?

I think the US public don't know what the hell NATO is, let alone where Ukraine is. That's why policy wonks and subject specialists rule the day, and dictate policy..

obtw -- it's not a unilateral US decision.

I know. But let's not forget how hard Trump is pushing on pendulums all over the world, simply because he's a disagreeable fellow...

For US Public Opinion on NATO, I will conduct a poll outside Waffle House and Carl’s Jr.

[MDlaxfan76]

Tucker Carlson now arguing that he doesn't see why we shouldn't support Russia over Ukraine...
Any real doubt about where Hannity will be?

Salty's been correct that France and Germany are influenced by their economic interests, gas pipeline etc. What he doesn't recognize is that Trump has pushed them very hard to no longer see their alliance with the US as dependable, thus they need to make it non-essential.

So....when does Ukraine simply get reabsorbed into Russian sphere...and who will object on the Trump-GOP-Fox-Breitbart-OANN side?

anyone?

MAGA

[Kismet]

https://thebulwark.com/the-senate-as-an ... -as-usual/

"Indeed, in The Federalist, Number 65, Alexander Hamilton predicted that we would face exactly the kind of political discord we are now experiencing:

The prosecution [of alleged political crimes] will seldom fail to agitate the passions of the whole community, and to divide it into parties more or less friendly or inimical to the accused. In many cases it will connect itself with the pre-existing factions, and will enlist all their animosities, partialities, influence, and interest on one side or the other; and in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated by the comparative strength of the parties than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt.

The design problem for America’s constitutional architects was to invent an institution that could mitigate this problem."

Interesting stuff on how the Senate was envisioned to work in the case of impeachment.

Not likely to happen the way it was envisioned sadly

[seacoaster]

https://thebulwark.com/the-senate-as-an ... -as-usual/

"Indeed, in The Federalist, Number 65, Alexander Hamilton predicted that we would face exactly the kind of political discord we are now experiencing:

The prosecution [of alleged political crimes] will seldom fail to agitate the passions of the whole community, and to divide it into parties more or less friendly or inimical to the accused. In many cases it will connect itself with the pre-existing factions, and will enlist all their animosities, partialities, influence, and interest on one side or the other; and in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated by the comparative strength of the parties than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt.

The design problem for America’s constitutional architects was to invent an institution that could mitigate this problem."

Interesting stuff on how the Senate was envisioned to work in the case of impeachment.

Not likely to happen the way it was envisioned sadly

McConnell is apparently making it increasingly clear that the Senate majority, sitting under oath as a tribunal, will carefully coordinate the impeachment proceedings with the White House. There will likely be no airing of the evidence. McConnell will reduce the Senate, in this respect, to a little less than administrative law judges. If you live in a state with a GOP Senator, you should get a letter/messaging campaign started to the effect that the Senate must conduct a proper trial contemplated by the oath required, the Chief presiding and the seriousness of the charges.

Some of you -- the toadying cynics in thrall to their party -- can call it "TDS," but things are slipping away from all of us here.

[seacoaster]

Some resources:

Senate Impeachment Rules:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO ... 992-69.pdf

1986 Revisions:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... l+text.pdf

Report on the Revised Rules:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... Report.pdf

Supplementary Rules Adopted for the Clinton Impeachment:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ial%29.pdf

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ial%29.pdf

You have to be mindful, when reviewing this stuff, that this is from a time long ago when Republicans still cared about quaint notions of constitutionalism and the rule of law. This is Mitch's chamber now, and party is all.

[jhu72]

Tucker Carlson now arguing that he doesn't see why we shouldn't support Russia over Ukraine...
Any real doubt about where Hannity will be?

Salty's been correct that France and Germany are influenced by their economic interests, gas pipeline etc. What he doesn't recognize is that Trump has pushed them very hard to no longer see their alliance with the US as dependable, thus they need to make it non-essential.

So....when does Ukraine simply get reabsorbed into Russian sphere...and who will object on the Trump-GOP-Fox-Breitbart-OANN side?

anyone?

MAGA

Look, lets call it what it is. The rights love affair with Russia is based on nothing more than White (Inter) Nationalism. This is Putin's marketing plan.

[dislaxxic]

How much has the cynical "predication" of the Clinton impeachment set us on the current nasty, unhinged and largely unfocused effort at using the tool the Framers gave the country for the purpose it was intended??

Pretty BIGLY, i'd say. The reversal, in attitude, of our two partisan camps towards this issue is pretty stunning, and has THIS poster's brain spinning like a top.

Pity the nation and the comity that would have it governed in a sound and reasonable way...

..

[jhu72]

https://thebulwark.com/the-senate-as-an ... -as-usual/

"Indeed, in The Federalist, Number 65, Alexander Hamilton predicted that we would face exactly the kind of political discord we are now experiencing:

The prosecution [of alleged political crimes] will seldom fail to agitate the passions of the whole community, and to divide it into parties more or less friendly or inimical to the accused. In many cases it will connect itself with the pre-existing factions, and will enlist all their animosities, partialities, influence, and interest on one side or the other; and in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated by the comparative strength of the parties than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt.

The design problem for America’s constitutional architects was to invent an institution that could mitigate this problem."

Interesting stuff on how the Senate was envisioned to work in the case of impeachment.

Not likely to happen the way it was envisioned sadly

McConnell is apparently making it increasingly clear that the Senate majority, sitting under oath as a tribunal, will carefully coordinate the impeachment proceedings with the White House. There will likely be no airing of the evidence. McConnell will reduce the Senate, in this respect, to a little less than administrative law judges. If you live in a state with a GOP Senator, you should get a letter/messaging campaign started to the effect that the Senate must conduct a proper trial contemplated by the oath required, the Chief presiding and the seriousness of the charges.

Some of you -- the toadying cynics in thrall to their party -- can call it "TDS," but things are slipping away from all of us here.

Toadying cynics - you mean those with TCiMD.

[old salt]

Tucker Carlson now arguing that he doesn't see why we shouldn't support Russia over Ukraine...
Any real doubt about where Hannity will be?

Salty's been correct that France and Germany are influenced by their economic interests, gas pipeline etc. What he doesn't recognize is that Trump has pushed them very hard to no longer see their alliance with the US as dependable, thus they need to make it non-essential.

So....when does Ukraine simply get reabsorbed into Russian sphere...and who will object on the Trump-GOP-Fox-Breitbart-OANN side?

anyone?

MAGA

Right. It's Trump's fault that France & Germany want Nordstream 2 .. ...which was started before he was even a candidate. Gerhardt Schroeder was hired by Gazprom.

It's not that complicated. Cheap energy is more important to the EUroburghers than Ukraine's independence, unless they can have it both ways & exploit Ukraine as a market too. ...while the US sends military trainers & Javelins to Ukraine, & deploys tanks to the Baltics & Poland to protect the EU marketplatz. We are such chumps.

[old salt]

They just think they are, until Trump jerks them back to reality.

You of all people know that no such thing is occurring. Trump's "policies" are ethereal, whimsical, and change via twitter FFS.

Work is being done to move Ukraine into NATO. That's where these polices start and end half of the time. Now that Trump is in power? We get brand new policies based on the whims of whatever has Hannity's attention for an hour.

What do you think US public opinion is re. Ukraine joining NATO ?

I think the US public don't know what the hell NATO is, let alone where Ukraine is. That's why policy wonks and subject specialists rule the day, and dictate policy..

obtw -- it's not a unilateral US decision.

I know. But let's not forget how hard Trump is pushing on pendulums all over the world, simply because he's a disagreeable fellow...

For US Public Opinion on NATO, I will conduct a poll outside Waffle House and Carl’s Jr.

...while deploying their customers to fight on NATO's E front.

[Typical Lax Dad]

They just think they are, until Trump jerks them back to reality.

You of all people know that no such thing is occurring. Trump's "policies" are ethereal, whimsical, and change via twitter FFS.

Work is being done to move Ukraine into NATO. That's where these polices start and end half of the time. Now that Trump is in power? We get brand new policies based on the whims of whatever has Hannity's attention for an hour.

What do you think US public opinion is re. Ukraine joining NATO ?

I think the US public don't know what the hell NATO is, let alone where Ukraine is. That's why policy wonks and subject specialists rule the day, and dictate policy..

obtw -- it's not a unilateral US decision.

I know. But let's not forget how hard Trump is pushing on pendulums all over the world, simply because he's a disagreeable fellow...

For US Public Opinion on NATO, I will conduct a poll outside Waffle House and Carl’s Jr.

...while deploying their customers to fight on NATO's E front.

Un huh.

[old salt]

And the the scary part....the top echelon in the FBI did the very thing they are accusing Trump of. Using Russia propaganda to facilitate and deceive the American people to influence people and an election...past and present.

You and old salt have spent the last several months to tell us this is 100% appropriate.

Why are you both still complaining? You should both be thrilled that the government was and is doing their job.

They might have been doing their job, had they not been leaking to the media. This fiasco illustrates how low the bar is to open a counter-intel investigation. That's not a bad thing, It needs to be done. Who knows how many are opened & closed without us ever learning about them. That's a good thing. No leaks, nobody slimed, no lawyers needed, no harm, no foul.

This one was different, It was apparent that this one was rotten from the start because of the volume of fake news leaked bombshells which propelled it (as Taibbi calls out his peers). I told you as it was happening. How many times did I play the Farkas video, soliciting leaks, or post Eli Lake's "Flynn appetizer/Trump entree" article. I called this stuff out to you, as it was happening, & you just waved it off, as "everbody leaks." ...not like this they don't. I told you this thing was rotten from the start & you tried to turn it around on me, just like you're trying to now.

Interesting article about FBI Counter-Intel Investigations (FCI's) & the FBI agents who conduct them.
Written in May 2017, consider it in light of the IG's findings.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/17/fb ... ump-comey/

I ask again -- before Crossfire Hurricane, how many FCI's have you even heard about ? How many were covered by the MSM ? How many have been opened & closed since 9-11 ? How many yielded actionable intel ?

The fact that we haven't heard about them demonstrates how it's supposed to work when the agents conducting them, & their supervisors, do not abuse the powers of their office. We don't hear about them when they're not weaponized for political purposes & leaked to the MSM.

Now the enablers are blaming the process, rather than the corrupt cabal who abused it.

[jhu72]

And the the scary part....the top echelon in the FBI did the very thing they are accusing Trump of. Using Russia propaganda to facilitate and deceive the American people to influence people and an election...past and present.

You and old salt have spent the last several months to tell us this is 100% appropriate.

Why are you both still complaining? You should both be thrilled that the government was and is doing their job.

They might have been doing their job, had they not been leaking to the media. This fiasco illustrates how low the bar is to open a counter-intel investigation. That's not a bad thing, It needs to be done. Who knows how many are opened & closed without us ever learning about them. That's a good thing. No leaks, nobody slimed, no lawyers needed, no harm, no foul.

This one was different, It was apparent that this one was rotten from the start because of the volume of fake news leaked bombshells which propelled it (as Taibbi calls out his peers). I told you as it was happening. How many times did I play the Farkas video, soliciting leaks, or post Eli Lake's "Flynn appetizer/Trump entree" article. I called this stuff out to you, as it was happening, & you just waved it off, as "everbody leaks." ...not like this they don't. I told you this thing was rotten from the start & you tried to turn it around on me, just like you're trying to now.

Interesting article about FBI Counter-Intel Investigations (FCI's) & the FBI agents who conduct them.
Written in May 2017, consider it in light of the IG's findings.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/17/fb ... ump-comey/

I ask again -- before Crossfire Hurricane, how many FCI's have you even heard about ? How many were covered by the MSM ? How many have been opened & closed since 9-11 ? How many yielded actionable intel ?

The fact that we haven't heard about them demonstrates how it's supposed to work when the agents conducting them, & their supervisors, do not abuse the powers of their office. We don't hear about them when they're not weaponized for political purposes & leaked to the MSM.

Now the enablers are blaming the process, rather than the corrupt cabal who abused it.

[a fan]

Interesting article about FBI Counter-Intel Investigations (FCI's) & the FBI agents who conduct them.
Written in May 2017, consider it in light of the IG's findings.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/17/fb ... ump-comey/

I ask again -- before Crossfire Hurricane, how many FCI's have you even heard about ? How many were covered by the MSM ? How many have been opened & closed since 9-11 ? How many yielded actionable intel ?

The fact that we haven't heard about them demonstrates how it's supposed to work when the agents conducting them, & their supervisors, do not abuse the powers of their office. We don't hear about them when they're not weaponized for political purposes & leaked to the MSM.

Now the enablers are blaming the process, rather than the corrupt cabal who abused it.

The FBI has never caught the Presidents men abusing their powers and lying to FBI agents before. What the heck do you expect. Nixon's FBI leaked like a sieve, remember? How many laws did Mark Felt break? Hundreds, or thousands?



That didn't last long. Back to your petty game of "everyone has to be flawless except Trump and his people".

None of us care about your petty partisan nonsense complaints. Not even a little. You think we're supposed to be outraged by the FBI, and cheer innocent doe-eyed Trump on?!? Get out of here with this nonsense.

If everyone is supposed to be perfect, where's your outrage at Flynn for lying? Where's your outrage at Trump for abusing his office and firing Comey? And attempting to fire Mueller? And messing with the whistleblower? And the meeting with a Russian spy.

You don't care about any of that.

Sell it to FoxNation. They'll slurp up your half-baked partisan "logic" with spoon, and lick the bowl clean.