LaxPower Back-Up Stick

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:18 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:57 pm Other gospels purporting to tell the same story of Jesus had different takes, some of which contradicted those that ended up being adopted much later as holy scripture by men with decidedly political purposes in doing so.

Which other gospels are you referring to?

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:16 am If one assesses the books of the Bible with the same criteria that other ancient manuscripts are analyzed by, there is simply no reasonable scientific ground for criticism. There exists a specific criteria to analyze ancient manuscripts as to their authenticity, accuracy, reliability, etc. One of these criteria is the Bibliographical test. In layman’s terms, how many copies remain of an original manuscript and what is the time period between when the original was written and when we have our first copies. At the turn of the century, there were in existence 8 manuscripts (MSS following) from the history of Thucydides (circa 460-400 B.C.) and 900 years between when he wrote said history and the first copy which survived. Caesar’s History of the Gallic Wars was written between 58 and 50 B.C. with 9 or 10 MSS dating 1000 years after his death. Aristotle wrote his collection of poetry around 343 B.C. with 5 MSS in existence and the first copy dated 1100 A.D.

The New Testament by stark contrast has well over 20,000 MSS in existence with the first copies dating a mere 250 to 300 years later. If the New Testament can be questioned and dismissed as lacking reliable historical authority, then where is the place found for other works of antiquity?

As I noted previously, I’m slowly working my way through the responses, many of which I haven’t read yet.

Brooklyn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:45 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:18 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:57 pm Other gospels purporting to tell the same story of Jesus had different takes, some of which contradicted those that ended up being adopted much later as holy scripture by men with decidedly political purposes in doing so.

Which other gospels are you referring to?

Not sure that this answers your question but I have also come across books which were said by some to be originally in the Bible but removed: https://www.google.com/search?q=Gospels ... e&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=mary+ma ... e&ie=UTF-8


Apocrypha or Apocryphal are words used to describe them. I don't know enough about the subject to discuss it at any length.

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:35 am LOL

An American Evangelical Christian is forcing people to listen to him on a subway in Sydney, Australia.

Two Aussies can’t take it any longer and tells him to shut up. This is a great clip.....


https://twitter.com/Caring_Atheist/stat ... 4578524161

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:08 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:16 am If one assesses the books of the Bible with the same criteria that other ancient manuscripts are analyzed by, there is simply no reasonable scientific ground for criticism. There exists a specific criteria to analyze ancient manuscripts as to their authenticity, accuracy, reliability, etc. One of these criteria is the Bibliographical test. In layman’s terms, how many copies remain of an original manuscript and what is the time period between when the original was written and when we have our first copies. At the turn of the century, there were in existence 8 manuscripts (MSS following) from the history of Thucydides (circa 460-400 B.C.) and 900 years between when he wrote said history and the first copy which survived. Caesar’s History of the Gallic Wars was written between 58 and 50 B.C. with 9 or 10 MSS dating 1000 years after his death. Aristotle wrote his collection of poetry around 343 B.C. with 5 MSS in existence and the first copy dated 1100 A.D.

The New Testament by stark contrast has well over 20,000 MSS in existence with the first copies dating a mere 250 to 300 years later. If the New Testament can be questioned and dismissed as lacking reliable historical authority, then where is the place found for other works of antiquity?

As I noted previously, I’m slowly working my way through the responses, many of which I haven’t read yet.

So what?

None of these "histories" can be said to be "historically accurate", though certain, not all, facts can be affirmed through archeological means...but a "quote" from a person not even known??? Not remotely. In some cases, we can be fairly certain that the writer was a single person, in others it's more likely that there were more than one author. In the cases of the 4 chosen gospels, all are anonymous, all by different people, some by more than one person likely. None were first hand.

wikipedia is actually pretty darn good on this topic.

I don't think posters on here are "dismissing" the New Testament, just saying that claiming exact historical accuracy is a fool's errand, though we understand the faith impulse to do so.

The idea that there are many copies of the Bible, once formed and approved, doesn't tell us anything at all about the historical accuracy of anything but the repeated transcriptions and their ages, etc. Not the underlying facts.

Unfortunately, there's very little archeological evidence affirming the Jesus story. That's not dismissal, that's reality. And, other than stories written decades later, his teachings are certainly not confirmable as "accurate", though the more that the stories overlap the more likely...that said, what we have is quite powerful and there are definitely consistent themes, so it's pretty easy to believe that the stories are at least close...though some of it (angels, virgin birth, resurrection, etc) get to the fantastical...historians are certainly not going to claim "accuracy" of such.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:36 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:08 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:16 am If one assesses the books of the Bible with the same criteria that other ancient manuscripts are analyzed by, there is simply no reasonable scientific ground for criticism. There exists a specific criteria to analyze ancient manuscripts as to their authenticity, accuracy, reliability, etc. One of these criteria is the Bibliographical test. In layman’s terms, how many copies remain of an original manuscript and what is the time period between when the original was written and when we have our first copies. At the turn of the century, there were in existence 8 manuscripts (MSS following) from the history of Thucydides (circa 460-400 B.C.) and 900 years between when he wrote said history and the first copy which survived. Caesar’s History of the Gallic Wars was written between 58 and 50 B.C. with 9 or 10 MSS dating 1000 years after his death. Aristotle wrote his collection of poetry around 343 B.C. with 5 MSS in existence and the first copy dated 1100 A.D.

The New Testament by stark contrast has well over 20,000 MSS in existence with the first copies dating a mere 250 to 300 years later. If the New Testament can be questioned and dismissed as lacking reliable historical authority, then where is the place found for other works of antiquity?

As I noted previously, I’m slowly working my way through the responses, many of which I haven’t read yet.

So what?

None of these "histories" can be said to be "historically accurate", though certain, not all, facts can be affirmed through archeological means...but a "quote" from a person not even known??? Not remotely. In some cases, we can be fairly certain that the writer was a single person, in others it's more likely that there were more than one author. In the cases of the 4 chosen gospels, all are anonymous, all by different people, some by more than one person likely. None were first hand.

wikipedia is actually pretty darn good on this topic.

I don't think posters on here are "dismissing" the New Testament, just saying that claiming exact historical accuracy is a fool's errand, though we understand the faith impulse to do so.

The idea that there are many copies of the Bible, once formed and approved, doesn't tell us anything at all about the historical accuracy of anything but the repeated transcriptions and their ages, etc. Not the underlying facts.

Unfortunately, there's very little archeological evidence affirming the Jesus story. That's not dismissal, that's reality. And, other than stories written decades later, his teachings are certainly not confirmable as "accurate", though the more that the stories overlap the more likely...that said, what we have is quite powerful and there are definitely consistent themes, so it's pretty easy to believe that the stories are at least close...though some of it (angels, virgin birth, resurrection, etc) get to the fantastical...historians are certainly not going to claim "accuracy" of such.

There is also very little archeological evidence that verifies the stories in the Old testament. Isn't that what having faith is all about? I remember this being said from a preacher at a bible study I attended when I was still a soldier. " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." If you can't believe that nothing that comes afterward will ever mean anything to you. That is where faith comes in to play.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:40 pm So fu*king tired of Christian scum.

Another Christian scum filled cult.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:31 pm I am an equal opportunity disparager of religious bags of nuts.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:23 pm One African American's observations on American Christianity.

CU88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:16 pm Time to tax the church.

smoova wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:20 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:16 pm Time to tax the church.

Amen.

CU88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:16 pm Time to tax the church.


Pastor Ed Young took time out of his sermon today to list out the crime statistics plaguing Harris County and the City of Houston under progressive rule. Young instructs his congregation that they must vote out d's.

https://twitter.com/MerissaHansen17/sta ... 5733050370