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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 7:58 am
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 4:42 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 7:30 pm
Salty: "Do you disagree with our defense of democracy & capitalism vs communism ?"
Actually, it was authoritarian aggression which deserved cold and at times hot response.
We also needed to compete with the ideology of state controlled economics, but it was always the more important battle between authoritarianism and democracy, not the disagreement between the ideologies of state-communism and capitalism.

Do you disagree with our defense of democracy and the rule of law vs authoritarian aggression???
I don't think I received an answer to my question above.
I thought it was a rhetorical question -- just another virtue signal platitude.

It's a catchy slogan used to sell employing military power when we don't have a sufficient threat to our national interests or security to justify it.

It's a fig leaf to cover a war to attrite Russia's military, promote regime change in Moscow, open a new market & create another EU member.

In '91, Jim Baker told us our defense of democracy & rule of law vs authoritarian aggression in the Persian Gulf was to secure American jobs.
So, "no". Just a "virtue signal platitude".

You just want "save lives, Russians and Ukrainians"... :roll:

24 hours, you and Trump can force Ukraine to fold.

You ignored the morale issue I posted. Any thoughts on who benefits from the threatening to withdraw US support...?

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:06 am
by Typical Lax Dad
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:58 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 4:42 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 7:30 pm
Salty: "Do you disagree with our defense of democracy & capitalism vs communism ?"
Actually, it was authoritarian aggression which deserved cold and at times hot response.
We also needed to compete with the ideology of state controlled economics, but it was always the more important battle between authoritarianism and democracy, not the disagreement between the ideologies of state-communism and capitalism.

Do you disagree with our defense of democracy and the rule of law vs authoritarian aggression???
I don't think I received an answer to my question above.
I thought it was a rhetorical question -- just another virtue signal platitude.

It's a catchy slogan used to sell employing military power when we don't have a sufficient threat to our national interests or security to justify it.

It's a fig leaf to cover a war to attrite Russia's military, promote regime change in Moscow, open a new market & create another EU member.

In '91, Jim Baker told us our defense of democracy & rule of law vs authoritarian aggression in the Persian Gulf was to secure American jobs.
So, "no". Just a "virtue signal platitude".

You just want "save lives, Russians and Ukrainians"... :roll:

24 hours, you and Trump can force Ukraine to fold.

You ignored the morale issue I posted. Any thoughts on who benefits from the threatening to withdraw US support...?
Old Salt wants Ukraine to lose by any means necessary. Hoping Trump is re-elected and USA withdraws military and political support.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:31 am
by MDlaxfan76
The Brits understand that Ukraine needs to strike the command and control, weapons caches, etc deeper within the Russian held areas of Ukraine. This is at least part of what I've been saying can turn the tide for Ukraine, longer reach with precision. Including into Crimea. No safe harbor.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/11/politics ... index.html

Britain has delivered long-range ‘Storm Shadow’ cruisemissiles to Ukraine ahead of expected counteroffensive, sources say


By Jim Sciutto, Chief National Security Correspondent
Updated 9:18 AM EDT, Thu May 11, 2023


The United Kingdom has delivered multiple “Storm Shadow” cruise missiles to Ukraine, giving the nation a new long-range strike capability in advance of a highly anticipated counteroffensive against Russian forces, multiple senior Western officials told CNN.

UK Defense Secretary Ben Wallace, calling the donation Ukraine’s “best chance to defend themselves against Russia’s continued brutality,” confirmed the transaction on Thursday after CNN exclusively reported the deal.

The Storm Shadow is a long-range cruise missile with stealth capabilities, jointly developed by the UK and France, which is typically launched from the air. With a firing range in excess of 250km, or 155 miles, it is just short of the 185-mile range capability of the US-made surface-to-surface Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, that Ukraine has long asked for.

Critically, the Storm Shadow has the range to strike deep into Russian-held territory in Eastern Ukraine. A Western official told CNN that the UK has received assurances from the Ukrainian government that these missiles will be used only within Ukrainian sovereign territory and not inside Russia. UK officials have made frequent public statements identifying Crimea as Ukrainian sovereign territory, describing it as “illegally annexed.”

The missile is “a real game changer from a range perspective,” a senior US military official told CNN and gives Kyiv a capability it has been requesting since the outset of the war. As CNN has reported, Ukraine’s current maximum range on US-provided weapons is around 49 miles.

The deployment of the missiles comes as Ukrainian forces prepare to launch a counteroffensive intended to retake Kremlin-held territory in the eastern and the southern parts of the country.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said his country still needs “a bit more time” before it launches the counteroffensive, in order to allow some more of the promised Western military aid to arrive in country.

“With [what we have] we can go forward and be successful,” Zelensky told European public service broadcasters in an interview published on Thursday. “But we’d lose a lot of people. I think that’s unacceptable.”

“So we need to wait. We still need a bit more time,” he added. Among the supplies Ukraine is still waiting for are armored vehicles – including tanks – which Zelensky said were “arriving in batches.”

This is not the first time Britain has gone further than the US in the weaponry it has been prepared to send to Ukraine. It was the first ally to announce it was sending modern Western tanks to Ukraine, in January pledging 14 Challenge 2 tanks before the US announced it would contribute M-1 Abrams tanks shortly after.

Earlier this year, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak signaled that Britain was considering sending long-range weapons.

“We must help Ukraine to shield its cities from Russian bombs and Iranian drones,” Sunak said at the Munich Security Conference on February 18. “And that’s why the UK will be the first country to provide Ukraine with longer-range weapons.”

And earlier this month the British government issued a procurement notice through the International Fund for Ukraine. The notice said the UK was inviting expressions of interest for buying “long-range strike” rockets or missiles by May 4, and potential suppliers would be contacted after a month. The notice stipulated “missiles or rockets with a range 100-300km; land, sea or air launch. Payload 20-490kg.”

US officials have repeatedly emphasized that they will continue supporting Ukraine for “as long as it takes”, and while tens of billions of dollars’ worth of equipment have been provided, the embattled country has continued asking for more to defeat the Russian military, including longer-range missiles such as ATACMS.

However, the US has been cautious over the last year in providing weapons to Ukraine that could help them strike within Russian territory. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Colin Kahl told reporters in August that it is the US assessment Ukraine does not “currently require ATACMS to service targets that are directly relevant to the current fight.”

According to MBDA Missile Systems, the European company which manufactures the missile, the Storm Shadow is a “deep strike weapon” capable of “being operated day and night in all weathers,” that features an advanced navigation system to ensure accuracy.

“After launch, the weapon descends to terrain hugging altitude to avoid detection,” MBDA’s website states. “On approaching the target, its onboard infrared seeker matches the target image with the stored picture to ensure a precision strike and minimal collateral damage.”

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 11:30 am
by NattyBohChamps04
Great news for conservatives with "traditional" values looking for a better place to live.

Russia to Build ‘Migrant Village’ for Conservative American Expats

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 1:34 pm
by MDlaxfan76
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 11:30 am Great news for conservatives with "traditional" values looking for a better place to live.

Russia to Build ‘Migrant Village’ for Conservative American Expats
Only 200 families?

Come on right wing nut jobs, this sounds like heaven for you!

Or it's Mordor.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 4:08 pm
by old salt
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:06 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:58 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 4:42 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 7:30 pm
Salty: "Do you disagree with our defense of democracy & capitalism vs communism ?"
Actually, it was authoritarian aggression which deserved cold and at times hot response.
We also needed to compete with the ideology of state controlled economics, but it was always the more important battle between authoritarianism and democracy, not the disagreement between the ideologies of state-communism and capitalism.

Do you disagree with our defense of democracy and the rule of law vs authoritarian aggression???
I don't think I received an answer to my question above.
I thought it was a rhetorical question -- just another virtue signal platitude.

It's a catchy slogan used to sell employing military power when we don't have a sufficient threat to our national interests or security to justify it.

It's a fig leaf to cover a war to attrite Russia's military, promote regime change in Moscow, open a new market & create another EU member.

In '91, Jim Baker told us our defense of democracy & rule of law vs authoritarian aggression in the Persian Gulf was to secure American jobs.
So, "no". Just a "virtue signal platitude".

You just want "save lives, Russians and Ukrainians"... :roll:

24 hours, you and Trump can force Ukraine to fold.

You ignored the morale issue I posted. Any thoughts on who benefits from the threatening to withdraw US support...?
Old Salt wants Ukraine to lose by any means necessary. Hoping Trump is re-elected and USA withdraws military and political support.
Old Salt wants --
-- Ukraine to survive & flourish as a free & prosperous nation, free of corruption, able to defend itself.
-- the killing & carnage to stop asap
-- a defensible postwar border which promotes stability & reduces the chances of future conflict.
-- Trump to lose the (R) primary to whichever emerging (R) candidate has the best chance to be elected.
-- RFK Jr to continue to gain support sufficient to force Biden to debate him, forcing the national debate on the war which has yet to take place.
-- the Russian people to determine the fate & future of Putin in a way that maintains global security, without US interference.
-- redeploy as much as possible our military forces from Europe & the MidEast to W Pac to deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 4:17 pm
by old salt
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 11:30 am Great news for conservatives with "traditional" values looking for a better place to live.

Russia to Build ‘Migrant Village’ for Conservative American Expats
Will they have a KHL hockey franchise ?

Drag Queen story hour at the Peoples Elementary School :

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 4:53 pm
by old salt
From Defense One :

We have an updated picture of how China and Russia are cozying up economically since Russia's full-scale Ukraine invasion began nearly 15 months ago. According to the latest public customs data released by Chinese officials, overall trade between the two countries is up 41%, with Russian exports to China up 25% (at $39.5 billion) and Chinese exports to Russia up 67% (at $33.7 billion).

Hat tip to Alexander Gabuev of the Carnegie Endowment.
https://www.economist.com/russias-relia ... der-gabuev

Russia’s reliance on China will outlast Vladimir Putin, says Alexander Gabuev
The director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Centre foresees a period of Russian vassalage

When xi jinping arrives in Moscow on March 20th for a state visit, the Kremlin ceremonies will be focused on showing not only respect to the most important foreign guest Russia has hosted since the beginning of its war against Ukraine, but also equality between the Chinese leader and his host, President Vladimir Putin. Yet elaborate court protocols will not be able to mask the growing power asymmetry between the two countries.

Mr Putin likes to frame his assault on Ukraine as an act of rebellion against American global dominance and a leap towards full Russian sovereignty. The reality is very different. Thirteen months into the war, Russia is increasingly dependent on China as a market for its commodities, as a source of critical imports, and as its most important diplomatic partner amid its growing global isolation. In 2022 China accounted for nearly 30% of Russian exports and 40% of its imports. A growing share of that trade is settled in Chinese yuan, since the West sanctions Russia’s access to the dollar and euro. With the West quickly dismantling its reliance on Russian natural resources, this dependency is set to grow.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 5:00 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:08 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:06 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:58 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 4:42 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 7:30 pm
Salty: "Do you disagree with our defense of democracy & capitalism vs communism ?"
Actually, it was authoritarian aggression which deserved cold and at times hot response.
We also needed to compete with the ideology of state controlled economics, but it was always the more important battle between authoritarianism and democracy, not the disagreement between the ideologies of state-communism and capitalism.

Do you disagree with our defense of democracy and the rule of law vs authoritarian aggression???
I don't think I received an answer to my question above.
I thought it was a rhetorical question -- just another virtue signal platitude.

It's a catchy slogan used to sell employing military power when we don't have a sufficient threat to our national interests or security to justify it.

It's a fig leaf to cover a war to attrite Russia's military, promote regime change in Moscow, open a new market & create another EU member.

In '91, Jim Baker told us our defense of democracy & rule of law vs authoritarian aggression in the Persian Gulf was to secure American jobs.
So, "no". Just a "virtue signal platitude".

You just want "save lives, Russians and Ukrainians"... :roll:

24 hours, you and Trump can force Ukraine to fold.

You ignored the morale issue I posted. Any thoughts on who benefits from the threatening to withdraw US support...?
Old Salt wants Ukraine to lose by any means necessary. Hoping Trump is re-elected and USA withdraws military and political support.
Old Salt wants --
-- Ukraine to survive & flourish as a free & prosperous nation, free of corruption, able to defend itself.
-- the killing & carnage to stop asap
-- a defensible postwar border which promotes stability & reduces the chances of future conflict.
-- Trump to lose the (R) primary to whichever emerging (R) candidate has the best chance to be elected.
-- RFK Jr to continue to gain support sufficient to force Biden to debate him, forcing the national debate on the war which has yet to take place.
-- the Russian people to determine the fate & future of Putin in a way that maintains global security, without US interference.
-- redeploy as much as possible our military forces from Europe & the MidEast to W Pac to deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan.
So, not the internationally recognized, prior Russian Federation recognized, sovereign borders...?

IMO, that's the border with the best chance of "stability & reduces the chances of future conflict".

I agree, sooner the better, but not under pressure from the US with threats of withdrawal of support, further emboldening Putin's regime to simply run out the clock.

Sure, Russian people decide Putin's fate, while The Hague tries him and others as war criminals.

Yup, get that corruption on par with most western countries, way better than kleptocracies like Belarus, Hungary, Russia, etc. Free and prosperous, you betcha. And able to "defend itself" as it has been so valiantly doing against a far larger aggressor nation.

RFK Jr should take a nap.

It would be great if we didn't have threats all over the world, including from Russia. But as long as Putin is in power, that threat is all too real.

I think "deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan" is best accomplished by the thorough, and preferably swift, defeat of Russian aggression. That defeat is the best way to "deter" Chinese hubris, a caution as to what can happen when democracies rally to one another.

I do think that other forms of diplomacy and soft power are important to that deterrence as well, as well as a much more robust commitment to longer term economic competition. That means investing in our educational system, infrastructure, strategic industries, etc. and being engaged in helping developing countries achieve more prosperity within the international rules-based economic systemm with us.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 5:13 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:08 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:06 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:58 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 4:42 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 7:30 pm
Salty: "Do you disagree with our defense of democracy & capitalism vs communism ?"
Actually, it was authoritarian aggression which deserved cold and at times hot response.
We also needed to compete with the ideology of state controlled economics, but it was always the more important battle between authoritarianism and democracy, not the disagreement between the ideologies of state-communism and capitalism.

Do you disagree with our defense of democracy and the rule of law vs authoritarian aggression???
I don't think I received an answer to my question above.
I thought it was a rhetorical question -- just another virtue signal platitude.

It's a catchy slogan used to sell employing military power when we don't have a sufficient threat to our national interests or security to justify it.

It's a fig leaf to cover a war to attrite Russia's military, promote regime change in Moscow, open a new market & create another EU member.

In '91, Jim Baker told us our defense of democracy & rule of law vs authoritarian aggression in the Persian Gulf was to secure American jobs.
So, "no". Just a "virtue signal platitude".

You just want "save lives, Russians and Ukrainians"... :roll:

24 hours, you and Trump can force Ukraine to fold.

You ignored the morale issue I posted. Any thoughts on who benefits from the threatening to withdraw US support...?
Old Salt wants Ukraine to lose by any means necessary. Hoping Trump is re-elected and USA withdraws military and political support.
Old Salt wants --
-- Ukraine to survive & flourish as a free & prosperous nation, free of corruption, able to defend itself.
-- the killing & carnage to stop asap
-- a defensible postwar border which promotes stability & reduces the chances of future conflict.
-- Trump to lose the (R) primary to whichever emerging (R) candidate has the best chance to be elected.
-- RFK Jr to continue to gain support sufficient to force Biden to debate him, forcing the national debate on the war which has yet to take place.
-- the Russian people to determine the fate & future of Putin in a way that maintains global security, without US interference.
-- redeploy as much as possible our military forces from Europe & the MidEast to W Pac to deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan.
Un huh

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 6:17 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:00 pm So, not the internationally recognized, prior Russian Federation recognized, sovereign borders...?

IMO, that's the border with the best chance of "stability & reduces the chances of future conflict".

I agree, sooner the better, but not under pressure from the US with threats of withdrawal of support, further emboldening Putin's regime to simply run out the clock.

I think "deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan" is best accomplished by the thorough, and preferably swift, defeat of Russian aggression. That defeat is the best way to "deter" Chinese hubris, a caution as to what can happen when democracies rally to one another.
I do not believe that is a realistic aspiration which can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time without direct US military intervention.

I do not believe the US public will continue to support this disproportionate level of US military aid, in comparison to the amount our EU allies are providing, while they cozy up to China, undermining our attempts to deter China's aggression toward Taiwan.

I hope I'm wrong & a Black Swan victory for Ukraine happens in the next few months, but I would not bet on lt happening.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 7:13 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:53 pm From Defense One :

We have an updated picture of how China and Russia are cozying up economically since Russia's full-scale Ukraine invasion began nearly 15 months ago. According to the latest public customs data released by Chinese officials, overall trade between the two countries is up 41%, with Russian exports to China up 25% (at $39.5 billion) and Chinese exports to Russia up 67% (at $33.7 billion).

Hat tip to Alexander Gabuev of the Carnegie Endowment.
https://www.economist.com/russias-relia ... der-gabuev

Russia’s reliance on China will outlast Vladimir Putin, says Alexander Gabuev
The director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Centre foresees a period of Russian vassalage

When xi jinping arrives in Moscow on March 20th for a state visit, the Kremlin ceremonies will be focused on showing not only respect to the most important foreign guest Russia has hosted since the beginning of its war against Ukraine, but also equality between the Chinese leader and his host, President Vladimir Putin. Yet elaborate court protocols will not be able to mask the growing power asymmetry between the two countries.

Mr Putin likes to frame his assault on Ukraine as an act of rebellion against American global dominance and a leap towards full Russian sovereignty. The reality is very different. Thirteen months into the war, Russia is increasingly dependent on China as a market for its commodities, as a source of critical imports, and as its most important diplomatic partner amid its growing global isolation. In 2022 China accounted for nearly 30% of Russian exports and 40% of its imports. A growing share of that trade is settled in Chinese yuan, since the West sanctions Russia’s access to the dollar and euro. With the West quickly dismantling its reliance on Russian natural resources, this dependency is set to grow.
Tried to tell you this MONTHS ago, and you made fun of me for telling you what was coming.

Global Trading partners are resetting, just as I told you, and there would be a point of no return for Putin.....would your rather sell stuff to the EU, or China? Russia is now generationally F'ed, just as I told you.

Next time, maybe listen and consider what others are sharing with you in this conversation.......

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 7:41 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 6:17 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:00 pm So, not the internationally recognized, prior Russian Federation recognized, sovereign borders...?

IMO, that's the border with the best chance of "stability & reduces the chances of future conflict".

I agree, sooner the better, but not under pressure from the US with threats of withdrawal of support, further emboldening Putin's regime to simply run out the clock.

I think "deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan" is best accomplished by the thorough, and preferably swift, defeat of Russian aggression. That defeat is the best way to "deter" Chinese hubris, a caution as to what can happen when democracies rally to one another.
I do not believe that is a realistic aspiration which can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time without direct US military intervention.

I do not believe the US public will continue to support this disproportionate level of US military aid, in comparison to the amount our EU allies are providing, while they cozy up to China, undermining our attempts to deter China's aggression toward Taiwan.

I hope I'm wrong & a Black Swan victory for Ukraine happens in the next few months, but I would not bet on lt happening.
You think the average American peasant is aware or cares about this?

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:39 pm
by PizzaSnake
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:41 pm
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 6:17 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:00 pm So, not the internationally recognized, prior Russian Federation recognized, sovereign borders...?

IMO, that's the border with the best chance of "stability & reduces the chances of future conflict".

I agree, sooner the better, but not under pressure from the US with threats of withdrawal of support, further emboldening Putin's regime to simply run out the clock.

I think "deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan" is best accomplished by the thorough, and preferably swift, defeat of Russian aggression. That defeat is the best way to "deter" Chinese hubris, a caution as to what can happen when democracies rally to one another.
I do not believe that is a realistic aspiration which can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time without direct US military intervention.

I do not believe the US public will continue to support this disproportionate level of US military aid, in comparison to the amount our EU allies are providing, while they cozy up to China, undermining our attempts to deter China's aggression toward Taiwan.

I hope I'm wrong & a Black Swan victory for Ukraine happens in the next few months, but I would not bet on lt happening.
You think the average American peasant is aware or cares about this?
Is it peasant season? What’s the bag limit?

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:13 pm
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 4:53 pm From Defense One :

We have an updated picture of how China and Russia are cozying up economically since Russia's full-scale Ukraine invasion began nearly 15 months ago. According to the latest public customs data released by Chinese officials, overall trade between the two countries is up 41%, with Russian exports to China up 25% (at $39.5 billion) and Chinese exports to Russia up 67% (at $33.7 billion).

Hat tip to Alexander Gabuev of the Carnegie Endowment.
https://www.economist.com/russias-relia ... der-gabuev

Russia’s reliance on China will outlast Vladimir Putin, says Alexander Gabuev
The director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Centre foresees a period of Russian vassalage

When xi jinping arrives in Moscow on March 20th for a state visit, the Kremlin ceremonies will be focused on showing not only respect to the most important foreign guest Russia has hosted since the beginning of its war against Ukraine, but also equality between the Chinese leader and his host, President Vladimir Putin. Yet elaborate court protocols will not be able to mask the growing power asymmetry between the two countries.

Mr Putin likes to frame his assault on Ukraine as an act of rebellion against American global dominance and a leap towards full Russian sovereignty. The reality is very different. Thirteen months into the war, Russia is increasingly dependent on China as a market for its commodities, as a source of critical imports, and as its most important diplomatic partner amid its growing global isolation. In 2022 China accounted for nearly 30% of Russian exports and 40% of its imports. A growing share of that trade is settled in Chinese yuan, since the West sanctions Russia’s access to the dollar and euro. With the West quickly dismantling its reliance on Russian natural resources, this dependency is set to grow.
Tried to tell you this MONTHS ago, and you made fun of me for telling you what was coming.

Global Trading partners are resetting, just as I told you, and there would be a point of no return for Putin.....would your rather sell stuff to the EU, or China? Russia is now generationally F'ed, just as I told you.

Next time, maybe listen and consider what others are sharing with you in this conversation.......
That was no profound newsflash from you. It was obvious that the EU was winding down their consumption of Russian gas & oil.
I questioned your assertion that it would wreck the Russian economy & force Putin to abandon the war.
It was obvious that China would pick up the slack & the BRIC countries & the rest of the non-aligned world would stop trading with Russia.
The global market is still desperate for Russian grain & fertilizer. Who has canceled purchases of Russian weapons systems ?
The Russian population will endure the loss of EU autos & luxury goods until domestic production & BRIC imports fill the void.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fertili ... -supplies/
EU agrees to ease Russia fertilizer curbs after row, angering Ukraine
Ambassadors resolve clash over fertilizer shipments

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:54 pm
by old salt
PizzaSnake wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:39 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:41 pm
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 6:17 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:00 pm So, not the internationally recognized, prior Russian Federation recognized, sovereign borders...?

IMO, that's the border with the best chance of "stability & reduces the chances of future conflict".

I agree, sooner the better, but not under pressure from the US with threats of withdrawal of support, further emboldening Putin's regime to simply run out the clock.

I think "deter a Chinese air or sea blockade or invasion of Taiwan" is best accomplished by the thorough, and preferably swift, defeat of Russian aggression. That defeat is the best way to "deter" Chinese hubris, a caution as to what can happen when democracies rally to one another.
I do not believe that is a realistic aspiration which can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time without direct US military intervention.

I do not believe the US public will continue to support this disproportionate level of US military aid, in comparison to the amount our EU allies are providing, while they cozy up to China, undermining our attempts to deter China's aggression toward Taiwan.

I hope I'm wrong & a Black Swan victory for Ukraine happens in the next few months, but I would not bet on lt happening.
You think the average American peasant is aware or cares about this?
Is it peasant season? What’s the bag limit?
If they watched Trump's town hall, they are now.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 11:08 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm That was no profound newsflash from you.
Yeah, that's the ENTIRE point. All you have to do is think for yourself to figure it out...but it wasn't the media at that point, because that's not what they do. And YOU didn't figure it out. You, instead made fun of me and my obvious understanding of the economics at hand...and lectured me about winters and China, not paying any attention whatsoever that China was fleecing Putin, and laughing all the way to the bank, just as they fleeced Trumpy.

You're still making fun of me now. Yet you got it wrong. Again. Which I wouldn't bring up if you weren't so condescending, even when you're wrong.
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm I questioned your assertion that it would wreck the Russian economy & force Putin to abandon the war.
Didn't make an assertion that was anywhere close to that.

I've been telling you for over a decade now that Putin doesn't have the money to do what you claimed he was doing. Syria was IDIOTIC, and Putin trying to pretend like he's the head of the Soviet Empire. You and the other military wonks bought Putin's buffalo bagels (no matter how many times I told you about their GDP), mostly because of Obama's little D and your seething hatred for the EU socialist......you NEVER pass up an opportunity to call theme Euroburgers....and yet they've outsmarted you, the idiots who gave us Brexit, and now Biden who's picking up their tab in Ukraine. And NATO.

Now Putin has ruined Russia for a few generations, and Russia is falling apart so badly that you've finally stopped telling us how much smarter Putin's moves are, and are figuring out the actual problem is: what happens if a nuclear Russia collapses/and or, gets someone WORSE than Putin in power.

All because Putin was too stupid to take Hillary's reset button because he, like so many of our leaders, think bombs fix everything.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 11:24 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 11:08 pm
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm That was no profound newsflash from you.
Yeah, that's the ENTIRE point. All you have to do is think for yourself to figure it out...but it wasn't the media at that point, because that's not what they do. And YOU didn't figure it out. You, instead made fun of me and my obvious understanding of the economics at hand...and lectured me about winters and China, not paying any attention whatsoever that China was fleecing Putin, and laughing all the way to the bank, just as they fleeced Trumpy.

You're still making fun of me now. Yet you got it wrong. Again. Which I wouldn't bring up if you weren't so condescending, even when you're wrong.
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm I questioned your assertion that it would wreck the Russian economy & force Putin to abandon the war.
Didn't make an assertion that was anywhere close to that.

I've been telling you for over a decade now that Putin doesn't have the money to do what you claimed he was doing. Syria was IDIOTIC, and Putin trying to pretend like he's the head of the Soviet Empire. You and the other military wonks bought Putin's buffalo bagels (no matter how many times I told you about their GDP), mostly because of Obama's little D and your seething hatred for the EU socialist......you NEVER pass up an opportunity to call theme Euroburgers....and yet they've outsmarted you, the idiots who gave us Brexit, and now Biden who's picking up their tab in Ukraine. And NATO.

Now Putin has ruined Russia for a few generations, and Russia is falling apart so badly that you've finally stopped telling us how much smarter Putin's moves are, and are figuring out the actual problem is: what happens if a nuclear Russia collapses/and or, gets someone WORSE than Putin in power.

All because Putin was too stupid to take Hillary's reset button because he, like so many of our leaders, think bombs fix everything.
:roll: I didn't get anything wrong. Russia's economy has not collapsed. Putin has adapted. The war continues.
You state the obvious cw, then preen as if it's original thought.
I've been waiting over a decade for the collapse of the Russian military & the end of Putin's ability to project power which you've been predicting.
Where would the feckless EUroburghers be now without US taxpayers & our military backing them up ?
Look at their struggle to get heavy weapons & munitions into the fight. At least the Brexit UK is doing their part, as are the Poles who are taking advantage of this threat to upgrade their military. Bully for them !

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/1 ... -in-moscow

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Fri May 12, 2023 12:40 am
by a fan
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm You state the obvious cw, then preen as if it's original thought.
If it was SO obvious...why did you get make fun of the idea, tell me I was wrong, and tell me that winters are cold? We can go back
to the ol' tape if you like.

Months later, you suddenly you like the idea because someone else sez so. So out come your usual cites who didn't say sh(t about this "obvious" idea months ago.

I wouldn't have said boo if you weren't so condescending (as usual) and are STILL being condescending.
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm I've been waiting over a decade for the collapse of the Russian military
:lol: You saw it live, on TV. Invading a Fifth rate county with the mighty, mighty Russian army that YOU and your fellow Military wonks have been lecturing the libs about since Obama took office. Dems are bad, "therefore" Putin is playing chess. How hard do you think Obama is laughing now?

Putin's awesome army collapsed so bad they had to call a freaking draft of anyone that could fog a mirror so this Fifth rate power didn't push them back to Moscow after the "invasion" stalled out

I called it. YOU on the other hand not only didn't call it.....you made fun of me for a decade for telling you why money is important.

:lol: Now you're here trying to tell me that not only did the Russian army not fall apart before our very eyes, you're here with a Forum full of some pretty smart people trying to make fun of me yet again.

If Bush had to call a draft because the Iraq invasion fell apart? You'd call it the greatest military collapse since the Battle of Agincourt.

Yet you're here trying to sell me, yet again, that the Russian army star spangled awesome, and doing just fine, thank you very much.

Take a knee. Show an ounce of humility, for heaven's sake. This is just a stupid forum. You missed a call. We all miss calls, FFS. Who cares?
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm Where would the feckless EUroburghers be now without US taxpayers & our military backing them up ?
Ah, but they are backed by you and I and our tax dollars. And they're laughing at me, you, and in particular....the rest of the folks who thought it would be better to invade the Middle East then give American citizens free Health Care and free Education.

Figure out who's playing chess yet? Putin's out...who's left?
old salt wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 pm Look at their struggle to get heavy weapons & munitions into the fight.
They don't care. They don't have to. Because the same NeoCons that have been leading America since the Soviet fall are in charge.

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Posted: Fri May 12, 2023 1:07 am
by old salt
On Wed, Zelensky told the BBC that the spring offensive is being delayed pending the arrival of promised heavy armor.

They see it not as one offensive, one assault but a series of hammer blows.

If they can take out the Kerch bridge with Storm Shadows & the newly formed armored brigades can break through the land bridge & reach the Azov coast, they can divide the Russian forces & isolate those in Crimea & the SW land bridge territory.