LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:00 pm**

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:51 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:32 am https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/03/30 ... 386312400/

Brings back more memories. My unit in the 2/508 was originally scheduled to make this jump. My unit wound up in Alaska for a month. The unit that made this jump was from my brigade. They were the 1/504 . Sadly, they did not die in combat or in any sort of conflict. That must disappoint Mr MD lax to no end. Maybe he has some disparaging remarks for these dead GIs. FTR the conditions were not safe. These men jumped with wind gusts in excess of 35 knots. They did not die in combat so their deaths don't matter. They did to me but not so much to some other people.
I have friends resting on the bottom of every ocean of the globe, as a result of flying marginally engineered aircraft in a very unforgiving environment, during "peacetime" operations. Some people just don't grasp the concept of differential risk.
You are completely missing how he questions everyone else because he “served”. My father served, in the f’ng band, in the 60s and he never would’ve behaved like that in a million years. Never would’ve questioned someone else’s patriotism because they didn’t serve.

Some people ignore that service is often a function of choices in life and not patriotism and therefor will never get it .
You are completely missing what he's angry about, specifically, this time.

He's reacting to the inference that he was a lesser warrior because he did not happen to see combat duty, even though he was in a combat unit, trained & on constant alert to go into combat. ...just like the paratroopers & Marines who were just sent into Kabul. ...& he lost a friend in a training mission, just as he would have in combat.

13 of them also died in Kabul because of the questionable decisions of their commanders, who are now being praised while hiding behind the valor & sacrifice of those 13.

I arrived at Ft Bragg in September of 1979. To refresh some people's memories the crisis involving American hostages in Iran started shortly after that. My NCOs and many of our officers were Vietnam combat veterans. None of us knew how the situation in Iran would play out. I do know this, we trained relentlessly under the assumption we probably would be the first unit to be called on if needed. Thankfully I was in the best shape of my life. PT every morning involved those 5 mile rifle runs up and down the fire breaks behind our barracks. We spent many days humping down Longstreet road in full gear to practice platoon level fire and maneuver training. For you lax guys think of that as wind sprints done in 3 to 5 second rushes that went for about a hundred meters. Then you would rest and do it again. You were also being screamed at to stay on line, keep up a base of fire and maintain squad integrity. Fire and maneuver was one of the hardest things I ever did in my life. We did a lot of it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:13 pm**

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:07 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:51 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:32 am https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/03/30 ... 386312400/

Brings back more memories. My unit in the 2/508 was originally scheduled to make this jump. My unit wound up in Alaska for a month. The unit that made this jump was from my brigade. They were the 1/504 . Sadly, they did not die in combat or in any sort of conflict. That must disappoint Mr MD lax to no end. Maybe he has some disparaging remarks for these dead GIs. FTR the conditions were not safe. These men jumped with wind gusts in excess of 35 knots. They did not die in combat so their deaths don't matter. They did to me but not so much to some other people.
I have friends resting on the bottom of every ocean of the globe, as a result of flying marginally engineered aircraft in a very unforgiving environment, during "peacetime" operations. Some people just don't grasp the concept of differential risk.
You are completely missing how he questions everyone else because he “served”. My father served, in the f’ng band, in the 60s and he never would’ve behaved like that in a million years. Never would’ve questioned someone else’s patriotism because they didn’t serve.

Some people ignore that service is often a function of choices in life and not patriotism and therefor will never get it .
You are completely missing what he's angry about, specifically, this time.

He's reacting to the inference that he was a lesser warrior because he did not happen to see combat duty, even though he was in a combat unit, trained & on constant alert to go into combat. ...just like the paratroopers & Marines who were just sent into Kabul. ...& he lost a friend in a training mission, just as he would have in combat.

13 of them also died in Kabul because of the questionable decisions of their commanders, who are now being praised while hiding behind the valor & sacrifice of those 13.
Yes but he responded after assaulting MD about his lack of service. It became a breast for tat but he instigated it and then became the victim. Same stuff different day.

That's exactly accurate. I was responding to the military service chest thumping and the personal attack, responded back, sharply.

And yes, Salty, I quite understand "differential risk"; I separately responded to cradle, which he's apparently ignored, about my father's experience during peacetime service.

Definitely risky (especially when chain of command makes foolhardy choices). But no more risky than a number of other professions that 'serve' one's community, one's country and certainly not more noble. Kismet's point above is especially poignant.

And beyond personal physical risk, many people 'serve' their communities and their country in a myriad of ways, contribute to the wellbeing of others.

Moreover, I find it offensive when one pretends to have done the same thing in combat training in peacetime as those who have actually signed up to serve in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, knowing they'd be taking a heck of a lot more "differential risk". I know several such and it ain't the same thing. Which doesn't subtract from the 'service' of the peacetime soldier/sailor, etc.

And, as cradle was specifically making light of those who have died from Covid, much less those who have put themselves on the line to help those infected survive or die with at least some grace, at huge personal emotional cost as well as physical risk, I responded to how people are indeed trying to reduce such, and help in whatever ways to save lives, help others.

Others have found other ways to contribute to the common good.

So, generically to all ex-military...Stop with the chest thumping.
Allow people to respect your prior service, whatever it may be, without all the chest thumping.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:23 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:13 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:07 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:51 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:32 am https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/03/30 ... 386312400/

Brings back more memories. My unit in the 2/508 was originally scheduled to make this jump. My unit wound up in Alaska for a month. The unit that made this jump was from my brigade. They were the 1/504 . Sadly, they did not die in combat or in any sort of conflict. That must disappoint Mr MD lax to no end. Maybe he has some disparaging remarks for these dead GIs. FTR the conditions were not safe. These men jumped with wind gusts in excess of 35 knots. They did not die in combat so their deaths don't matter. They did to me but not so much to some other people.
I have friends resting on the bottom of every ocean of the globe, as a result of flying marginally engineered aircraft in a very unforgiving environment, during "peacetime" operations. Some people just don't grasp the concept of differential risk.
You are completely missing how he questions everyone else because he “served”. My father served, in the f’ng band, in the 60s and he never would’ve behaved like that in a million years. Never would’ve questioned someone else’s patriotism because they didn’t serve.

Some people ignore that service is often a function of choices in life and not patriotism and therefor will never get it .
You are completely missing what he's angry about, specifically, this time.

He's reacting to the inference that he was a lesser warrior because he did not happen to see combat duty, even though he was in a combat unit, trained & on constant alert to go into combat. ...just like the paratroopers & Marines who were just sent into Kabul. ...& he lost a friend in a training mission, just as he would have in combat.

13 of them also died in Kabul because of the questionable decisions of their commanders, who are now being praised while hiding behind the valor & sacrifice of those 13.
Yes but he responded after assaulting MD about his lack of service. It became a breast for tat but he instigated it and then became the victim. Same stuff different day.
That's exactly accurate. I was responding to the military service chest thumping and the personal attack, responded back, sharply.

And yes, Salty, I quite understand "differential risk"; I separately responded to cradle, which he's apparently ignored, about my father's experience during peacetime service.

Definitely risky (especially when chain of command makes foolhardy choices). But no more risky than a number of other professions that 'serve' one's community, one's country and certainly not more noble. Kismet's point above is especially poignant.

And beyond personal physical risk, many people 'serve' their communities and their country in a myriad of ways, contribute to the wellbeing of others.

Moreover, I find it offensive when one pretends to have done the same thing in combat training in peacetime as those who have actually signed up to serve in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, knowing they'd be taking a heck of a lot more "differential risk". I know several such and it ain't the same thing. Which doesn't subtract from the 'service' of the peacetime soldier/sailor, etc.

And, as cradle was specifically making light of those who have died from Covid, much less those who have put themselves on the line to help those infected survive or die with at least some grace, at huge personal emotional cost as well as physical risk, I responded to how people are indeed trying to reduce such, and help in whatever ways to save lives, help others.

Others have found other ways to contribute to the common good.

So, generically to all ex-military...Stop with the chest thumping.
Allow people to respect your prior service, whatever it may be, without all the chest thumping.

I have mentioned my friend who dad was a general and died when he was 10ish in Costa Rica by accident and they threw his family out of the town of West Point within 30 days in an ugly manner for a decorated guy and line of family members high up. Barely made it through college at Lasalle and would’ve had every right to do nothing but enlisted after 9/11 and ultimately got a Purple Heart for being shot 8x in Iraq as a captain while leading a team to extract high value targets from villages either with money (apparently he kept $10k on his personal at all times for payoffs) or helping with local infrastructure. I watched him crush some dipshit who tried this lame bully act on our mutual friend who was hitting in his girlfriend and then came at him with some drop a coin nonsense when this dude was a nothing enlisted never been in heat dude. He would’ve beaten the crap out of cradle and anyone else who pulled the type of behavior that we see from some of these arrogant military folks and has zero respect for that behavior. That’s a real hero (who’s got serious PTSD now and struggling mightily in life but still doesn’t blame everyone else for his problems).

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:29 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:13 pm

So, generically to all ex-military...Stop with the chest thumping.
Allow people to respect your prior service, whatever it may be, without all the chest thumping.

Why are you attacking the military now. Telling how to act ?
Everything you yarn on about is antecdotial........either yours, or others, experiences.

What is the "chest thumping " in reference too ? What are people thumping about?

BTw, we mostly only listen to people that fly private. Makers, not takers.

You , umm....fly commercial? Hopefully, you get to hang in the "first class" lounge while waiting for your luggage to arrive.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:42 pm**

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:29 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:13 pm

So, generically to all ex-military...Stop with the chest thumping.
Allow people to respect your prior service, whatever it may be, without all the chest thumping.
Why are you attacking the military now. Telling how to act ?
Everything you yarn on about is antecdotial........either yours, or others, experiences.

What is the "chest thumping " in reference too ? What are people thumping about?

BTw, we mostly only listen to people that fly private. Makers, not takers.

You , umm....fly commercial? Hopefully, you get to hang in the "first class" lounge while waiting for your luggage to arrive.

Huh?

Constant attack mode.

Pay attention, there was bunch of chest thumping about military service and a direct attack at me because I've been clear that I didn't go into the military. Not for lack of support of military much less country, but because I was class of '76 out of HS, no registration #, no war to fight, military was overstaffed as it was, drawing down from Vietnam. Had grown up assuming I wouldn't avoid service, would go to Vietnam, but mighty relieved that wasn't going to be necessary. Disgusted by two things: 1) military leadership lying about the war and 2) the awful treatment of returning soldiers by many in the public. Went to college. Married two months after graduation, moved on with life. But I have lots of folks in my life who have served in the military, including in combat. Others in various areas of intelligence.

"fly commercial"??? yes. I've been on one charter flight paid by someone else, and the only time I fly first class is when my wife and I get upgraded for some lucky reason. Rare, but enjoyed. I'm too cheap otherwise.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm**

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:51 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:32 am https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/03/30 ... 386312400/

Brings back more memories. My unit in the 2/508 was originally scheduled to make this jump. My unit wound up in Alaska for a month. The unit that made this jump was from my brigade. They were the 1/504 . Sadly, they did not die in combat or in any sort of conflict. That must disappoint Mr MD lax to no end. Maybe he has some disparaging remarks for these dead GIs. FTR the conditions were not safe. These men jumped with wind gusts in excess of 35 knots. They did not die in combat so their deaths don't matter. They did to me but not so much to some other people.
I have friends resting on the bottom of every ocean of the globe, as a result of flying marginally engineered aircraft in a very unforgiving environment, during "peacetime" operations. Some people just don't grasp the concept of differential risk.
You are completely missing how he questions everyone else because he “served”. My father served, in the f’ng band, in the 60s and he never would’ve behaved like that in a million years. Never would’ve questioned someone else’s patriotism because they didn’t serve.

Some people ignore that service is often a function of choices in life and not patriotism and therefor will never get it .

So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:07 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:42 pm
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:29 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:13 pm

So, generically to all ex-military...Stop with the chest thumping.
Allow people to respect your prior service, whatever it may be, without all the chest thumping.
Why are you attacking the military now. Telling how to act ?
Everything you yarn on about is antecdotial........either yours, or others, experiences.

What is the "chest thumping " in reference too ? What are people thumping about?

BTw, we mostly only listen to people that fly private. Makers, not takers.

You , umm....fly commercial? Hopefully, you get to hang in the "first class" lounge while waiting for your luggage to arrive.
Huh?

Constant attack mode.

Pay attention, there was bunch of chest thumping about military service and a direct attack at me because I've been clear that I didn't go into the military. Not for lack of support of military much less country, but because I was class of '76 out of HS, no registration #, no war to fight, military was overstaffed as it was, drawing down from Vietnam. Had grown up assuming I wouldn't avoid service, would go to Vietnam, but mighty relieved that wasn't going to be necessary. Disgusted by two things: 1) military leadership lying about the war and 2) the awful treatment of returning soldiers by many in the public. Went to college. Married two months after graduation, moved on with life. But I have lots of folks in my life who have served in the military, including in combat. Others in various areas of intelligence.

"fly commercial"??? yes. I've been on one charter flight paid by someone else, and the only time I fly first class is when my wife and I get upgraded for some lucky reason. Rare, but enjoyed. I'm too cheap otherwise.

First class is overrated unless your getting your drink on. Have used my business flying to extract some low rent first class flight upgrades over time but never out of my own pocket.

Funny I don’t recall this type of assault when PB was talking about buying airport hangars with all equity because debt is for lower class folks like Rob McGuire....(ie if you don’t need debt to acquire high cost long term fixed assets that’s a rich guy to go after)

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.

Nope.

They were about him being a hypocritical piece of ****. Claiming he knew more than the generals. Claiming he would have been a good general. Disparaging tons of service members, alive and dead. Making fun of McCain for being a POW. Claiming his time at a military prep school gave him more military training that a lot of guys who go into the military. Getting out of the war by being a fortunate son, copping out with daddy's money and a fake injury instead of pulling an Ali or conscientious objector.

The man has been disparaging the military his whole life. Many are blind to it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:33 pm**

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.
Nope.

They were about him being a hypocritical piece of ****. Claiming he knew more than the generals. Claiming he would have been a good general. Disparaging tons of service members, alive and dead. Making fun of McCain for being a POW. Claiming his time at a military prep school gave him more military training that a lot of guys who go into the military. Getting out of the war by being a fortunate son, copping out with daddy's money and a fake injury instead of pulling an Ali or conscientious objector.

The man has been disparaging the military his whole life. Many are blind to it.

He called POWs losers. What the heck is anyone doing comparing the two. It’s a brain dead or damaged comparison.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:06 pm**

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.
Nope.

They were about him being a hypocritical piece of ****. Claiming he knew more than the generals. Claiming he would have been a good general. Disparaging tons of service members, alive and dead. Making fun of McCain for being a POW. Claiming his time at a military prep school gave him more military training that a lot of guys who go into the military. Getting out of the war by being a fortunate son, copping out with daddy's money and a fake injury instead of pulling an Ali or conscientious objector.

The man has been disparaging the military his whole life. Many are blind to it.

I don't disagree with your analysis of trump. I still don't understand where the line is drawn about criticizing someone who didn't serve? I made my comment not to criticize for not serving. It is fair to point out when someone is being critical of our military that they never served. How does one come off as being an expert when they never paid their dues? I'm not an expert, but I did pay my dues. My opinion is based on my own experience nothing more and nothing less. i was disparaged because i never served in combat. I was disparaged and insulted by someone who never served. Yes, i took offense to that. i was not offended for myself, I was offended for an 18 year old soldier who was just as dead as any soldier that died in combat. Sadly only one poster on this forum gets it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:11 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:06 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.
Nope.

They were about him being a hypocritical piece of ****. Claiming he knew more than the generals. Claiming he would have been a good general. Disparaging tons of service members, alive and dead. Making fun of McCain for being a POW. Claiming his time at a military prep school gave him more military training that a lot of guys who go into the military. Getting out of the war by being a fortunate son, copping out with daddy's money and a fake injury instead of pulling an Ali or conscientious objector.

The man has been disparaging the military his whole life. Many are blind to it.
I don't disagree with your analysis of trump. I still don't understand where the line is drawn about criticizing someone who didn't serve? I made my comment not to criticize for not serving. It is fair to point out when someone is being critical of our military that they never served. How does one come off as being an expert when they never paid their dues? I'm not an expert, but I did pay my dues. My opinion is based on my own experience nothing more and nothing less. i was disparaged because i never served in combat. I was disparaged and insulted by someone who never served. Yes, i took offense to that. i was not offended for myself, I was offended for an 18 year old soldier who was just as dead as any soldier that died in combat. Sadly only one poster on this forum gets it.

Did you read his post?

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:15 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:51 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:32 am https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/03/30 ... 386312400/

Brings back more memories. My unit in the 2/508 was originally scheduled to make this jump. My unit wound up in Alaska for a month. The unit that made this jump was from my brigade. They were the 1/504 . Sadly, they did not die in combat or in any sort of conflict. That must disappoint Mr MD lax to no end. Maybe he has some disparaging remarks for these dead GIs. FTR the conditions were not safe. These men jumped with wind gusts in excess of 35 knots. They did not die in combat so their deaths don't matter. They did to me but not so much to some other people.
I have friends resting on the bottom of every ocean of the globe, as a result of flying marginally engineered aircraft in a very unforgiving environment, during "peacetime" operations. Some people just don't grasp the concept of differential risk.
You are completely missing how he questions everyone else because he “served”. My father served, in the f’ng band, in the 60s and he never would’ve behaved like that in a million years. Never would’ve questioned someone else’s patriotism because they didn’t serve.

Some people ignore that service is often a function of choices in life and not patriotism and therefor will never get it .
So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.

cradle, you attacked me before I said a darn thing about your service having been in peacetime. You were beating your chest as if you have some blindingly accurate insight into what the decisions should have been in Afghanistan. I only got sharp with you in response to your attack on me for not having 'served'. Don't mention me if you don't want a direct pushback.

On a more friendly note, have you bothered yet to read my response to the tragic story you told?

No, I had no phony excuses for avoiding service. No registration #'s issued that year, military was downsizing from Vietnam, not looking for new bodies. Went to college, got married, never got a draft card.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:25 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:06 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.
Nope.

They were about him being a hypocritical piece of ****. Claiming he knew more than the generals. Claiming he would have been a good general. Disparaging tons of service members, alive and dead. Making fun of McCain for being a POW. Claiming his time at a military prep school gave him more military training that a lot of guys who go into the military. Getting out of the war by being a fortunate son, copping out with daddy's money and a fake injury instead of pulling an Ali or conscientious objector.

The man has been disparaging the military his whole life. Many are blind to it.
I don't disagree with your analysis of trump. I still don't understand where the line is drawn about criticizing someone who didn't serve? I made my comment not to criticize for not serving. It is fair to point out when someone is being critical of our military that they never served. How does one come off as being an expert when they never paid their dues? I'm not an expert, but I did pay my dues. My opinion is based on my own experience nothing more and nothing less. i was disparaged because i never served in combat. I was disparaged and insulted by someone who never served. Yes, i took offense to that. i was not offended for myself, I was offended for an 18 year old soldier who was just as dead as any soldier that died in combat. Sadly only one poster on this forum gets it.

I too agree re Trump.

When was I being critical of our military?
Seems to me you're been ripping the command choices made without knowing what all the tradeoffs that were considered. Blowing very, very hard on that negative 'disaster' horn.

And no, I don't think the "dues" you paid mean that you have any clue about those command decisions. You haven't had that experience and you certainly don't have sufficient information to reach the sorts of harsh judgments you keep throwing out.

And I'm certainly no "expert" on those decisions whether as someone paid his "dues" in peacetime or served in combat...the only point about the combat service is that I actually do care about the young men and women who've served in Afghanistan, those who died, those who were injured, those who sacrificed in so many ways...and their families. I'm glad we're not in a shooting situation right now.

You really should take your time to read what I wrote in response to your story of tragedy. You won't see a shred of disrespect for your fellow soldier.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:49 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:13 pm And yes, Salty, I quite understand "differential risk"; I separately responded to cradle, which he's apparently ignored, about my father's experience during peacetime service.

Moreover, I find it offensive when one pretends to have done the same thing in combat training in peacetime as those who have actually signed up to serve in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, knowing they'd be taking a heck of a lot more "differential risk". I know several such and it ain't the same thing. Which doesn't subtract from the 'service' of the peacetime soldier/sailor, etc.

As a matter of historical perspective, to better appreciate your differential perspective of those who served --

Do you consider the Cold War "peacetime" -- with the Korean War, Hungarian uprising, Prague Spring, Pueblo incident, Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam, Iran hostage crisis, Granada, Panama, Balkan conflicts, Somalia (Blackhawk down) et. al. ?

Post Cold War/pre 9-11 -- Balkan conflicts, Somalia (Blackhawk down), Desert Shield. Desert Storm, Provide Comfort, Northern & Southern Watch no-fly zones, Desert Fox, USS Stark, USS Cole

Do you differentiate those who chose to enter service, or remain beyond initial obligation, before & after the draft existed ?

Or do you perhaps have a sliding scale of regard which better aligns with your political prejudices ?

Although not as well publicized (or as politicized) as the "dignified transfer of remains" via Dover (a horrible military term used to describe the final journey home), service members who perish during your malleable definition of "peacetime" are still afforded full military honors.

When you take the oath to serve you are not assured "peacetime" for your entire term of obligated service.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:32 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:06 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 pm So all those comments about "bone spurs" were never made to question trump's patriotism?The argument made on this forum ad nauseum was trump never served so he was a coward. I called out a certain person because IMO he made disparaging comments to my service. He didn't serve but from what I know he was pretty solid between the pipes. Hell for all I know he may have had bone spurs too.
Nope.

They were about him being a hypocritical piece of ****. Claiming he knew more than the generals. Claiming he would have been a good general. Disparaging tons of service members, alive and dead. Making fun of McCain for being a POW. Claiming his time at a military prep school gave him more military training that a lot of guys who go into the military. Getting out of the war by being a fortunate son, copping out with daddy's money and a fake injury instead of pulling an Ali or conscientious objector.

The man has been disparaging the military his whole life. Many are blind to it.
I don't disagree with your analysis of trump. I still don't understand where the line is drawn about criticizing someone who didn't serve? I made my comment not to criticize for not serving. It is fair to point out when someone is being critical of our military that they never served. How does one come off as being an expert when they never paid their dues? I'm not an expert, but I did pay my dues. My opinion is based on my own experience nothing more and nothing less. i was disparaged because i never served in combat. I was disparaged and insulted by someone who never served. Yes, i took offense to that. i was not offended for myself, I was offended for an 18 year old soldier who was just as dead as any soldier that died in combat. Sadly only one poster on this forum gets it.

Yeah you two are far more enlightened. Of course by consequence never say a word about anything you don’t have direct experience with unless you like being Marie Antoinette (maybe that’s the case). The lack of self reflection here is astounding.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:03 pm**

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:33 pm He called POWs losers. What the heck is anyone doing comparing the two. It’s a brain dead or damaged comparison.

tRump should never have been allowed anywhere near the White Wash House. The SOB never apologized for that comment nor for his other stupid sayings on other occasions. Funny, though, how some right wingers here hate to see him attacked for his bone spurs fakery but had no problem criticizing Clinton and Obama for lack of service back in the day.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:17 pm**

Brooklyn wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:33 pm He called POWs losers. What the heck is anyone doing comparing the two. It’s a brain dead or damaged comparison.
tRump should never have been allowed anywhere near the White Wash House. The SOB never apologized for that comment nor for his other stupid sayings on other occasions. Funny, though, how some right wingers here hate to see him attacked for his bone spurs fakery but had no problem criticizing Clinton and Obama for lack of service back in the day.

It’s one of the more disgusting things among his resume. Maybe it’s a bad look for me but far worse than the grab them by the good stuff with respect to a leader of our country.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:38 pm**

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:00 am
lagerhead wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:07 pm Afan I think your right for 3 year horizon but I’m thinking midterm ads will still be targeting the withdrawal.
Why?---this is all on Biden. It has literally nothing to do with a Congressmen running for reelection.

Repercussions from guilt by association.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:02 pm**

Just a hunch -- our historic airlift won't live up to all the happy talk hype when we learn, in detail, who we brought out, who we left behind, & why.

Hope I'm wrong.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:46 pm**

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:02 pm Just a hunch -- our historic airlift won't live up to all the happy talk hype when we learn, in detail, who we brought out, who we left behind, & why.

Hope I'm wrong.

Hope so too.

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