LaxPower Back-Up Stick

laxrules wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:22 pm

Laxattackjack wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:08 pm [quote=richard post_id=544005 time=<a href="tel:1714344299">1714344299</a> user_id=418]
A follow up for jack and Southie regarding Roanoke and pool C. What are your thoughts about Salisburys schedule? Looks to me sort of similar to Roanokes maybe not as strong. If they and RIT were last in line for pool C which way would you go?

comparing salisbury schedule to roanoke

vs regionally ranked teams
salisbury 8-0
Roanoke 4-4

vs top 20 teams
salisbury 5-0
roanoke 0-4

best win
salisbury - CNU, Gettysburg, and York were all top 10 when salisbury beat them.
Roanoke - Grove city ranked around 25

based on pre season ranking. OOC games vs ranked teams
Salisbury 4-0
Roanoke 0-2

not really a good comparison.

I see what you are saying but the only ranked teams that matter are regionally ranked teams. The 7 ranked teams in the 5 regions is all that matters.
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i was replying to the comment that suggest roanoke and salisbury had comparable schedules. teams don’t know the regionally ranked teams when schedules are made.

ah23 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:03 pm

SixBySix wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 4:35 pm A Regionally Ranked win is a Regionally Ranked win, be it Elmhurst or RIT.

I wonder why the NCAA bothers ranking teams in each region if they don’t actually use those rankings…pretty weird dynamic.

You mean why they are ordinally ranked within a region? In most sports, they select Pool C bids sequentially from the remaining top-ranked teams in each region, so for example a team ranked #3 in Region II can't get a bid before the team ranked #2 does (and obviously the regional rankings are set before the Pool B/C selection process starts). I have not personally seen formal confirmation that this process is used in lacrosse, but you can find quite detailed discussions on other boards for soccer and basketball, for example.

***I should add a note for those reading who are not as familiar with the process, there is a final regional ranking made after all regular season games and conference tournaments which is the relevant one for NCAA selection, all of the previous ones are just previews. This ranking is not released until after the NCAA field is announced. i.e. do NOT look at the last published regional rankings and think that team A can't get in ahead of team B, because those rankings will be recalculated before the ultimate decision is made.

SixBySix wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:06 pm

ah23 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:03 pm

SixBySix wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 4:35 pm A Regionally Ranked win is a Regionally Ranked win, be it Elmhurst or RIT.

I wonder why the NCAA bothers ranking teams in each region if they don’t actually use those rankings…pretty weird dynamic.

You mean why they are ordinally ranked within a region? In most sports, they select Pool C bids sequentially from the remaining top-ranked teams in each region, so for example a team ranked #3 in Region II can't get a bid before the team ranked #2 does (and obviously the regional rankings are set before the Pool B/C selection process starts).

Exactly - I don’t really get the point of treating all wins equally while clearly acknowledging in every step of the selection process that they aren’t. I’m sure I’m oversimplifying how the committee considers wins, but that’s at least how it comes across to me. Appreciate the explanation regardless, definitely did not know those details.

SixBySix wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:06 pm [quote=ah23 post_id=544086 time=<a href="tel:1714356211">1714356211</a> user_id=1302]
[quote=SixBySix post_id=543955 time=<a href="tel:1714336548">1714336548</a> user_id=1287]
A Regionally Ranked win is a Regionally Ranked win, be it Elmhurst or RIT.

I wonder why the NCAA bothers ranking teams in each region if they don’t actually use those rankings…pretty weird dynamic.
[/quote]

You mean why they are ordinally ranked within a region? In most sports, they select Pool C bids sequentially from the remaining top-ranked teams in each region, so for example a team ranked #3 in Region II can't get a bid before the team ranked #2 does (and obviously the regional rankings are set before the Pool B/C selection process starts). I have not personally seen formal confirmation that this process is used in lacrosse, but you can find quite detailed discussions on other boards for soccer and basketball, for example.

***I should add a note for those reading who are not as familiar with the process, there is a final regional ranking made after all regular season games and conference tournaments which is the relevant one for NCAA selection, all of the previous ones are just previews. This ranking is not released until after the NCAA field is announced. i.e. do NOT look at the last published regional rankings and think that team A can't get in ahead of team B, because those rankings will be recalculated before the ultimate decision is made.
[/quote]

Regional rankings have always been the worst part of the whole process. When it comes to the selections the rankings are not published which gives the committee the ability to taylor things to suit their selections. Recently the committee hasn’t screwed up so badly but there was a time when the results were a total shyt show.

choochooCharlie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:29 pm Don’t tell that to ah23

Choochoo, stop harassing individual post-ers.

What time do region rankings get released

Lacrossefan25 wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 12:14 pm What time do region rankings get released

Updated now.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse- ... l-rankings

G’burg out, Muhlenberg in.

DeepPocket wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 12:51 pm

Lacrossefan25 wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 12:14 pm What time do region rankings get released

Updated now.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse- ... l-rankings

G’burg out, Muhlenberg in.

The NCAA could benefit tremendously from a recent college grad to produce the "staticpdfrank" files.

DeepPocket wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 12:51 pm

Lacrossefan25 wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 12:14 pm What time do region rankings get released

Updated now.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse- ... l-rankings

Things changing already. With bubble teams losing in their tourneys, it means either teams who racked up W's with generally soft schedules (Ohio Wesleyan, Roanoke, etc) OR teams who endured brutal schedule but high profile losses (Middlebury, Amherst, Gettysburg) will benefit.

Cortland lost in an upset-- a bad loss.
York took bad L in their tourney-- don't see an 8-loss team making the tourney. At some point, you have to win games.
Middlebury should need to win NESCAC tourney or else they'd be trying to get in with 8 losses too.
Muhlenberg should need to win Centennial tourney-- Swat & Dick should be locks no matter what happens.

Big semi-final games today. Do we think a team like Denison would get in say they don’t get the AQ? Also have to assume Yorks season is over

I would say Denison has to get the AQ, but you never know. I wouldn’t rule it out, but would say it’s unlikely. York’s season is over.

BallHunt wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:35 pm The NCAA could benefit tremendously from a recent college grad to produce the "staticpdfrank" files.

On the subject...what is going on with the "Results vs. Division Ranked Opponents" column? The 4/29 release has Muhlenberg at 3-4, but their only ranked wins are Colorado College and Cortland. Has W&L with six RR wins; they actually have five (Denison, Elmhurst, Hampden-Sydney, Lynchburg, and Roanoke). They give Amherst three when they actually have two (Swarthmore and RPI). There are more...you get the point. Have seen the same issue of inflated win totals in previous releases as well. Am I missing something?

ah23 wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 2:13 pm

BallHunt wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:35 pm The NCAA could benefit tremendously from a recent college grad to produce the "staticpdfrank" files.

On the subject...what is going on with the "Results vs. Division Ranked Opponents" column? The 4/29 release has Muhlenberg at 3-4, but their only ranked wins are Colorado College and Cortland. Has W&L with six RR wins; they actually have five (Denison, Elmhurst, Hampden-Sydney, Lynchburg, and Roanoke). They give Amherst three when they actually have two (Swarthmore and RPI). There are more...you get the point. Have seen the same issue of inflated win totals in previous releases as well. Am I missing something?

vRRO is lagging, it's the record against the previous week's Regionally Ranked teams.

Right, it’s a component of the criteria so they are showing you what was used to formulate the current rankings. This week’s rankings will be used on Selection Sunday to produce the final rankings.

From what I have understood for years once the selection committee meets on Sunday they do a “Deep Dive” and come up with new regional rankings and then make their pool C selections. So what you see from yesterday is not final and you will not see those final regional rankings. The way things are developing there will be some interesting choices the committee will need to make. RMC has put themselves into the mix.

richard wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 6:46 pm From what I have understood for years once the selection committee meets on Sunday they do a “Deep Dive” and come up with new regional rankings and then make their pool C selections. So what you see from yesterday is not final and you will not see those final regional rankings. The way things are developing there will be some interesting choices the committee will need to make. RMC has put themselves into the mix.

and w&L is now on the bubble.

W&L has certainly put themselves is a tough spot, but unless RMC wins the tournament, The Generals will be the second ODAC team in. Notwithstanding today, they have too many wins over ranked teams to ignore. RMC has just one- today.

Have to imagine that W&L is a lock, they’re 13-5 with a bunch of RR wins and a very good SOS.

Faxlax wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 7:29 pm W&L has certainly put themselves is a tough spot, but unless RMC wins the tournament, The Generals will be the second ODAC team in. Notwithstanding today, they have too many wins over ranked teams to ignore. RMC has just one- today.

RMC has 2 ranked wins. Hampden Sidney is on Wednesdays RR list but who knows if that will be on Sundays list.

richard wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 7:44 pm [quote=Faxlax post_id=545757 time=<a href="tel:1714692595">1714692595</a> user_id=3071]
W&L has certainly put themselves is a tough spot, but unless RMC wins the tournament, The Generals will be the second ODAC team in. Notwithstanding today, they have too many wins over ranked teams to ignore. RMC has just one- today.

RMC has 2 ranked wins. Hampden Sidney is on Wednesdays RR list but who knows if that will be on Sundays list.
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When the team is ranked in this week rankings they stay as ranked team even if they drop out Sunday morning. So if/when anyone was ranked in second to last poll you count as a ranked team