LaxPower Back-Up Stick

molo wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:35 pm Duke a slam dunk number one with their murderers row if an early schedule. Face it, Maryland and Virginity haven’t beaten anyone that compares to the power houses that Duke has vanquished.

Auto correct screwed me.

joewillie78 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:34 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:05 pm

joewillie78 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 4:26 pm My new top 20, 2/25:

1. Duke
2. Virginia
3. Maryland
4. Denver
5. Army
6. Notre Dame
7. Yale
8. Johns Hopkins
9. Syracuse
10. Penn State
11. Cornell
12. Michigan
13. Harvard
14. Rutgers
15. Georgetown
16. Penn
17. Towson
18. Princeton
19. North Carolina
20. Ohio State

Gobigred
Joewillie78

I have a hard time figuring out how UVa is #2, Maryland #3, and Richmond is unranked. Love to hear what the back half of that top 20 has done that puts them above Richmond

I think I have been pretty consistent on insisting that their is no such thing as a "good" loss.
My beloved Big Red lost on the road to the now #4 team in the country by 1. Was this a "good" loss? In my opinion, NO. It was a loss and thus they tumbled to #11.
Sorry, Richmond losses were just that, losses. If they had won 1 of those, I would obviously have them in my top 20.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

It has to be a good loss if you have them at 11. If you believed in no good losses, like you say, NJIT would be ranked. They are the only team in America that is 5-0

molo wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:57 pm Auto correct screwed me.

I had to go back and see what you were referring to. That's pretty funny what they turned Virginia into. Lol.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

It has always appeared that some programs get the benefit of a "good loss" and some programs do not.

Ranking Cornell at #11 after beating unranked Lehigh by four (17-13), and losing a "close one" ranked Denver would have to based on a "good loss" to Denver.

Ranking Princeton at #18 after beating unranked Monmouth and unranked Manhattan, and losing to ranked Maryland 13-7 must also be based on a "good loss" to Maryland

NovaLax17 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:41 pm It has always appeared that some programs get the benefit of a "good loss" and some programs do not.

Ranking Cornell at #11 after beating unranked Lehigh by four (17-13), and losing a "close one" ranked Denver would have to based on a "good loss" to Denver.

Ranking Princeton at #18 after beating unranked Monmouth and unranked Manhattan, and losing to ranked Maryland 13-7 must also be based on a "good loss" to Maryland

You mean 0-4 Manhattan and 1-2 Monmouth (LIU being the lone W from those teams)

NovaLax17 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:41 pm It has always appeared that some programs get the benefit of a "good loss" and some programs do not.

Ranking Cornell at #11 after beating unranked Lehigh by four (17-13), and losing a "close one" ranked Denver would have to based on a "good loss" to Denver.

Ranking Princeton at #18 after beating unranked Monmouth and unranked Manhattan, and losing to ranked Maryland 13-7 must also be based on a "good loss" to Maryland

I mean this thread is fun, but it seems more of a "predict the normal media/coaches top 20 a day before they come out" rather than providing deeper analysis or insight.

All speculative fun, but how doe Duke get ranked above UVA?

keno in reno wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:46 pm

NovaLax17 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:41 pm It has always appeared that some programs get the benefit of a "good loss" and some programs do not.

Ranking Cornell at #11 after beating unranked Lehigh by four (17-13), and losing a "close one" ranked Denver would have to based on a "good loss" to Denver.

Ranking Princeton at #18 after beating unranked Monmouth and unranked Manhattan, and losing to ranked Maryland 13-7 must also be based on a "good loss" to Maryland

I mean this thread is fun, but it seems more of a "predict the normal media/coaches top 20 a day before they come out" rather than providing deeper analysis or insight.

Feel like that is what most polls are and that bias is why polls should wait until week 5-6 to come out. I’d love to see a poll with Quinnipiac in it right now. Something that says “I should check out that team, even if it is an early over-reaction”

Asleep@theswitch wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:53 pm All speculative fun, but how doe Duke get ranked above UVA?

Who cares...

BlueJaySince1947 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:32 pm

Asleep@theswitch wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:53 pm All speculative fun, but how doe Duke get ranked above UVA?

Who cares...

Every Johns Hopkins fan for the last 17 years

IL has Duke 1 and UVA 2. I guess strength of schedule and quality wins determined the ranking.

keno in reno wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:34 pm

BlueJaySince1947 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:32 pm

Asleep@theswitch wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:53 pm All speculative fun, but how doe Duke get ranked above UVA?

Who cares...

Every Johns Hopkins fan for the last 17 years

Ever since the NC$$ got its teeth into lacrosse these pathetic rankings rants go on and on ad nauseum.
As noted who cares...

Unless you’re truly dominant a #1 ranking is an annoyance. The other equal teams get to have a chip on their shoulder. It’s better to be the best team and ranked 4th

coda wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:44 pm

NovaLax17 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:41 pm It has always appeared that some programs get the benefit of a "good loss" and some programs do not.

Ranking Cornell at #11 after beating unranked Lehigh by four (17-13), and losing a "close one" ranked Denver would have to based on a "good loss" to Denver.

Ranking Princeton at #18 after beating unranked Monmouth and unranked Manhattan, and losing to ranked Maryland 13-7 must also be based on a "good loss" to Maryland

You mean 0-4 Manhattan and 1-2 Monmouth (LIU being the lone W from those teams)

Exactly Coda. There is a polling bias that favors the historical success of certain programs. It is true that early season rankings are more of a prediction as Keno in Reno pointed out. However, crediting certain teams with "good losses" continues throughout the season and into post-season seeding. It's inevitable.

NovaLax17 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:54 am

coda wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:44 pm

NovaLax17 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:41 pm It has always appeared that some programs get the benefit of a "good loss" and some programs do not.

Ranking Cornell at #11 after beating unranked Lehigh by four (17-13), and losing a "close one" ranked Denver would have to based on a "good loss" to Denver.

Ranking Princeton at #18 after beating unranked Monmouth and unranked Manhattan, and losing to ranked Maryland 13-7 must also be based on a "good loss" to Maryland

You mean 0-4 Manhattan and 1-2 Monmouth (LIU being the lone W from those teams)

Exactly Coda. There is a polling bias that favors the historical success of certain programs. It is true that early season rankings are more of a prediction as Keno in Reno pointed out. However, crediting certain teams with "good losses" continues throughout the season and into post-season seeding. It's inevitable.

I have never understood the idea that there are no "good losses" or "good wins". Relative performance is what rankings are about. There is a difference between beating or losing to UVA and Manhattan. There is a difference between beating Manhattan by 10+ or going to OT to get the win. Difference between losing to UVa by 10+ or losing in OT.. I am not promoting moral victories, a loss is a loss, but treating every L the same is as ignorant as treating every W the same.

Virginia (3-0) Richmond, Michigan, and Ohio State
Maryland (4-0) Richmond, Loyola, Syracuse, Princeton
Denver (4-0) Hopkins, Air Force, Utah, Cornell

Should all be ahead of:

Duke (4-0) Bellarmine, High Point, St Joseph's, Jacksonville

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:15 am Virginia (3-0) Richmond, Michigan, and Ohio State
Maryland (4-0) Richmond, Loyola, Syracuse, Princeton
Denver (4-0) Hopkins, Air Force, Utah, Cornell

Should all be ahead of:

Duke (4-0) Bellarmine, High Point, St Joseph's, Jacksonville

I don't have any issue with a few cupcake type games but Duke's schedule seems pretty soft when you consider the team they have and that they loaded up to try and get O'Neil a title. Their schedule does pick up a bit in Mid March with Richmond, Cuse, Denver and BU all in an 11 day span but Providence and Loyola before those 2 games look like games they might win by 30.

I have no problem with Duke at #1. They started the season at #1 or #2 in most polls and are destroying teams. It's not like they've looked bad.
The poll is not a ranking of tournament resumes. If it was, the top 10 would look much different than just Duke being lower.

JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 12:06 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:15 am Virginia (3-0) Richmond, Michigan, and Ohio State
Maryland (4-0) Richmond, Loyola, Syracuse, Princeton
Denver (4-0) Hopkins, Air Force, Utah, Cornell

Should all be ahead of:

Duke (4-0) Bellarmine, High Point, St Joseph's, Jacksonville

I don't have any issue with a few cupcake type games but Duke's schedule seems pretty soft when you consider the team they have and that they loaded up to try and get O'Neil a title. Their schedule does pick up a bit in Mid March with Richmond, Cuse, Denver and BU all in an 11 day span but Providence and Loyola before those 2 games look like games they might win by 30.

Duke and Cuse are the only two teams in the top-10 with arguably ‘soft’ schedules to start a season, and both enjoy mostly home games as well. Both teams however face grueling second half of the season schedules with zero room for error.