Dartmouth Men's Lacrosse

[sguy9]

Interesting to hear the commentary on the lack of response in recruiting. I was under the impression when the program opened their purses to bring in the Associate Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator/Recruiting Coordinator this was one of his charges to improve. As well as actually hitting the cage with some shots. Has he not improved these areas? I'd suspect that if not, BC's choice may not have been the right choice.

In other news, Harvard comes to Hanover on Saturday, potential crappy weather. Anyone want to set an under/over?

[DCIII]

"Not fitting" is a pretty common experience and one that applies to both the recruit and the program alike and there are many legitimate reasons for this. Having said that, DC needs to do a much better job of responding and MUST deal with each and EVERY inquiry respectfully (speaking of "progress, effort, attitude and conduct"). Simply explain your rational or reasoning for not being interested and move on...but DO NOT IGNORE. At the same time, DC must eliminate any bias or preconceptions with respect to a particular geographical region, HS league or type e.g. Public vs Private, individual HS program or personal affiliation with DC (legacy). These stories of bias have littered this forum in the past and unfortunately continue to happen... Each potential recruit needs to be evaluated on their own merits.

The quality of the recruiting process has a huge impact on the reputation of the program, the College and ultimately that of the Friends of DLAX. We are vested in this process and we should be funding resources in this area...admin staff, student interns, technology. How about leveraging the process from other DC programs such as Football where it is a significantly larger and more complex task. Recruiting facilities, Database and Film technology, the use of Social Media. Anyone who has been on a DC or IVY Football recruiting visit knows that the their process and effort is at a completely different level.

This is one of the reasons why I am so excited about the addition of Joe Conner. He is an outstanding person who not only sees the field clearly but also deeply understands all of the above. I hope to see much progress in this area with his leadership.

[MDlaxfan76]

Interesting to hear the commentary on the lack of response in recruiting. I was under the impression when the program opened their purses to bring in the Associate Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator/Recruiting Coordinator this was one of his charges to improve. As well as actually hitting the cage with some shots. Has he not improved these areas? I'd suspect that if not, BC's choice may not have been the right choice.

In other news, Harvard comes to Hanover on Saturday, potential crappy weather. Anyone want to set an under/over?

As usual, Harvard's got a ton of firepower. They also have a tender who has been the key difference maker for them.

But they had 32 TO's against BU, so far from infallible.

I think if you follow the discussion above, you'll see that the poster made this comment in his/her one and only post under this moniker. He or she has not PM'd me to investigate. You'll also notice the claim is that the player ended up at an Ivy (already there) so the new hire wouldn't have been involved at all... if it actually happened and is not just one of our trolls under a new name.

[MDlaxfan76]

"Not fitting" is a pretty common experience and one that applies to both the recruit and the program alike and there are many legitimate reasons for this. Having said that, DC needs to do a much better job of responding and MUST deal with each and EVERY inquiry respectfully (speaking of "progress, effort, attitude and conduct"). Simply explain your rational or reasoning for not being interested and move on...but DO NOT IGNORE. At the same time, DC must eliminate any bias or preconceptions with respect to a particular geographical region, HS league or type e.g. Public vs Private, individual HS program or personal affiliation with DC (legacy). These stories of bias have littered this forum in the past and unfortunately continue to happen... Each potential recruit needs to be evaluated on their own merits.

The quality of the recruiting process has a huge impact on the reputation of the program, the College and ultimately that of the Friends of DLAX. We are vested in this process and we should be funding resources in this area...admin staff, student interns, technology. How about leveraging the process from other DC programs such as Football where it is a significantly larger and more complex task. Recruiting facilities, Database and Film technology, the use of Social Media. Anyone who has been on a DC or IVY Football recruiting visit knows that the their process and effort is at a completely different level.

This is one of the reasons why I am so excited about the addition of Joe Conner. He is an outstanding person who not only sees the field clearly but also deeply understands all of the above. I hope to see much progress in this area with his leadership.

Hey DCIII, welcome back!

Feel free to reach out to me via PM is you want to get involved in any of the areas you describe and aren't already. There was a pretty darn challenging set of objectives outlined recently in these areas you describe coming out of the Friends correspondence. Requires $ and time, by many.

[sguy9]

This is one of the reasons why I am so excited about the addition of Joe Conner. He is an outstanding person who not only sees the field clearly but also deeply understands all of the above. I hope to see much progress in this area with his leadership.

Sure hope so.

[sguy9]

"Not fitting" is a pretty common experience and one that applies to both the recruit and the program alike and there are many legitimate reasons for this. Having said that, DC needs to do a much better job of responding and MUST deal with each and EVERY inquiry respectfully (speaking of "progress, effort, attitude and conduct"). Simply explain your rational or reasoning for not being interested and move on...but DO NOT IGNORE. At the same time, DC must eliminate any bias or preconceptions with respect to a particular geographical region, HS league or type e.g. Public vs Private, individual HS program or personal affiliation with DC (legacy). These stories of bias have littered this forum in the past and unfortunately continue to happen... Each potential recruit needs to be evaluated on their own merits.

+1

[FannOLax]

...In other news, Harvard comes to Hanover on Saturday, potential crappy weather. Anyone want to set an under/over?

Last year, in Massachusetts, Dartmouth led at halftime, ended up losing 10-8. Hanover, NH, this Saturday, crappy weather: sounds to me like this might be the formula for that long-awaited Dartmouth Ivy win; The Green by one.

[ABV 8.3%]

Dartmouth is close to making the IVY playoffs now. A few pieces are missing, though.

In terms of recruiting, I agree with the communication part. Reply to EVERYONE. I hope the coaches don't use the Darthmouth.EDU email for other non lacrosse activities, cluttering the email up with spam or bachelor party invites.

Having friends and family having attended Dartmouth, we all find it curious that the "faux" support of their centuries old Native American program has never crossed paths with the lacrosse program. Has Dartmouth ever had a Native American on it's roster? Ever recruited players ? I have heard NO. Very strange, considering Dartmouth promotes the Native American program, proudly declaring that they educate more Natives than any other IVY. They just don't recruit them for lacrosse, as far as we can tell.

__________________________________________________________________

https://students.dartmouth.edu/nap/about/history


Samson Occom, a Mohegan Indian and one of Wheelock's first students, was instrumental in raising substantial funds for the College. The Royal Governor of New Hampshire, John Wentworth, provided the land upon which Dartmouth would be built and on December 13, 1769, conveyed the charter from King George III establishing the College. That charter created a college "for the education and instruction of Youth of the Indian Tribes in this Land ... and also of English Youth and any others."

During the first 200 years of its existence, however, Dartmouth fell far short of its educational goal and a mere 19 Native Americans graduated from the College. This situation changed dramatically when John G. Kemeny became the 13th president of Dartmouth College in 1970. In his inaugural address, he pledged to redress the historical lack of opportunities for Native Americans in higher education. In recommitting Dartmouth to its founding purpose, John Kemeny established a Native American Program at the College and directed the Admissions Office to begin actively recruiting Indian students for the very first time.

In the 48 years that have passed since former President Kemeny's historical address, Dartmouth's commitment to Indian education has remained strong. In this brief time, nearly 700 Native Americans from over 200 different tribes have attended Dartmouth, more than at all the other Ivy League institutions combined.

[sguy9]

Having friends and family having attended Dartmouth, we all find it curious that the "faux" support of their centuries old Native American program has never crossed paths with the lacrosse program. Has Dartmouth ever had a Native American on it's roster? Ever recruited players ? I have heard NO. Very strange, considering Dartmouth promotes the Native American program, proudly declaring that they educate more Natives than any other IVY. They just don't recruit them for lacrosse, as far as we can tell.

This is a very good question. This could be the thing that separates Dartmouth from the pack if done right. Do we know if the current staff is recruiting these areas? Did Towers, Wilson, or Sowell recruit natives?

I agree, they are missing a few pieces. The glaring missing pieces are, quality of depth all around, and ability to finish shots, clearing ability.

1. Quality of depth - first lines at each position are good, but injuries happen as well as need to be pushed, need to develop depth. Goalies 1 and 2 are strong.
2. Shooting is horrendous. Moments of wow here (both good and bad) Fine tune shooting and all around stick skills will greatly improve.
3. Clearing ability - is this an issue in strategy or execution? I think a bit of both, teach kids how to clear not where to clear. Also, improve stick skills to move the ball up the field.

[Laxjunkie]

...In other news, Harvard comes to Hanover on Saturday, potential crappy weather. Anyone want to set an under/over?

Last year, in Massachusetts, Dartmouth led at halftime, ended up losing 10-8. Hanover, NH, this Saturday, crappy weather: sounds to me like this might be the formula for that long-awaited Dartmouth Ivy win; The Green by one.

nope

[MDlaxfan76]

...In other news, Harvard comes to Hanover on Saturday, potential crappy weather. Anyone want to set an under/over?

Last year, in Massachusetts, Dartmouth led at halftime, ended up losing 10-8. Hanover, NH, this Saturday, crappy weather: sounds to me like this might be the formula for that long-awaited Dartmouth Ivy win; The Green by one.

nope

Formula was there but HU won 20 of 22 FO's. 18 possessions.

Resulting in 11 more shots, 9 more shots on goal.

Both goalies terrific %. Hincks with 17.

But, Dartmouth won the GB game other than on FO's. Overall 35-29 HU, just 6 differential, despite the 18 difference at X.

And committed 15 TO's to HU's 23.

Leading at half, but only by one as HU's tender had great first half.

3rd Q, Dartmouth had it's worst TO's with only 50% clearing that period. Otherwise strong.

But the make it take it for HU was too much.

[Dartjd76]

Loss to Harvard in Hanover is unfortunate as it probably was the best chance for an Ivy win this year. Re recruiting, etc. the need for "effort" extends to the coaching staff and the administration, as well as the players. I acknowledge the big challenge of winning games against strong legacy programs. However, my patience and support will wear thin in a hurry if there is a lack of effort at any level - on and off field, players, staff, administration, etc. If that is the case, it's game over.

[MDlaxfan76]

Loss to Harvard in Hanover is unfortunate as it probably was the best chance for an Ivy win this year. Re recruiting, etc. the need for "effort" extends to the coaching staff and the administration, as well as the players. I acknowledge the big challenge of winning games against strong legacy programs. However, my patience and support will wear thin in a hurry if there is a lack of effort at any level - on and off field, players, staff, administration, etc. If that is the case, it's game over.

That's fair.

I liked the on field effort yesterday, and the improvement in error rates. The youngsters are improving.

That was a brutal difference in FO's though.
The last time Dartmouth beat Harvard, 2015, the direct reverse happened with Dartmouth winning 22 of 27, winning both FO's in 2OT, and 8 of 9 in the 4th Q. Phil Hession had an enormous day, also scoring 2G's off of his own face offs. Lots and lots of fast breaks.

[Ghost]

...Unquestionabe Effort - boys played with lots of heart...
Solid Game plan, Offense had real good looks-
D looked much better than last week - contesting all shots

It’s a shame their W/L record Is not yet more reflective of
Their fast and physical play...

[bearlaxfan]

Don't want to be guilty of 'presentism' but here I go with presentism: despite the dominating results of the last few years, Dart>Brown in Hanover this year.

[High Glass]

You are what you are, but here are a few things to consider:

The goalie is a freshman.
The starting close D is 2 freshmen and 1 sophomore
The LSMs are 1 sophomore and 1 freshmen.
The freshman FOGO, who was doing very well, got injured and is likely out for the season.
The starting attack is 2 sophomores and 1 junior.
The first offensive middle line is a freshman and two juniors.
The first defensive middle line is a freshman and a junior.
There are 2 FOGOS in next year’s class including a To-10 rated one.
This team is big and athletic. The flaws have been obvious, but they are young and improving.

[sguy9]

The goalie is a freshman.
The starting close D is 2 freshmen and 1 sophomore
The LSMs are 1 sophomore and 1 freshmen.
The freshman FOGO, who was doing very well, got injured and is likely out for the season.
The starting attack is 2 sophomores and 1 junior.
The first offensive middle line is a freshman and two juniors.
The first defensive middle line is a freshman and a junior.
There are 2 FOGOS in next year’s class including a To-10 rated one.
This team is big and athletic. The flaws have been obvious, but they are young and improving.

Agree with this. Big Green had chances on Saturday. Up by 1 in the 4th, let Harvard score a couple of quick ones and couldn't equalize. After posting m thoughts on needs, I am going to hang my hat on the lack of depth as the main issue. Starting F/O guy goes out with injury, who is the next guy up, thee kid that is still in High School. Injuries on D, next guy up? This is a good sign that youngsters are fighting and gaining experience, next group of recruits looks good, all good news. But, finding a way to manufacture 1 Ivy win would go so far with this group. They play hard, but they play young at times. Coach them up, build their confidence, and let them run!

[MDlaxfan76]

Don't want to be guilty of 'presentism' but here I go with presentism: despite the dominating results of the last few years, Dart>Brown in Hanover this year.

Seems to me that there remains a gap similar to the one with Harvard.
Within reach, but still a gap.

High Glass' pointing out the age of the players is very on point. I quite agree with sguy9 on depth.

I'd be more optimistic about winning one, or quite likely multiple, Ivy contests in 2020 and 2021. And if the recruiting continues to advance as it appears to have done, actually be challenging for Ivy titles going forward.

I don't think recruiting is sufficient, though. We need a more complete and well-funded coaching staff and administrative support. That's in the works but not yet in place. Better, not complete.

The points about the increased commitments of multiple of our Ivy peers is important. Yale, in particular, has built a juggernaut that will keep them in the running for some time to come. It's a real magnet at the moment (but took more than a decade to build). Cornell appears to be on the path back to preeminence. Penn keeps grinding away with high quality, essentially one or two players from a deep run-in the NCAA's themselves. Princeton could well be on a good path, though very unlikely to see a Tierney style advance in the current era. Harvard may be about to start a new regime with a renewed commitment (but might not). Brown had a very good advance, but appears to be struggling to build a new identity, but my own opinion is that Daly is a winner, so I'd be surprised if he isn't ultimately successful.

That's great for the Ivies overall for immediate term, but will indeed make recruiting to Dartmouth a challenge given that we need the same AI and academic profile overall. But I think it's doable.

On the other hand, the breadth and depth of quality lacrosse being taught in HS and more and more good coaching in college has led to much more parity in the middle tiers. Much tougher to penetrate through that layer and into the top 20 nationally.

We have a long way to go, but the youth of this team, and positive steps in coaching, and the new indoor facility, and...

Meanwhile, there are some big challenges ahead for the current 2019 team. I'm looking for them to play with pride, heads-up. The scoreboard is less important.

[sguy9]

+1

[RumorMill]

First time poster, but have been following for awhile (previous forum as well).

I’m a big Dartmouth College fan (and Ivy League lacrosse fan), so the under performance of the lacrosse program is frustrating. After reading through all the posts here, I’m still left scratching my head. A young team, yes, but “improving” is TBD. And a “young” team or “rebuilding year” to me are excuses after you’ve had a “successful” season or two. Currently on pace for another 2-11 season… hopefully at least 3-10 with a win vs Hartford. So technically that would be an improvement over 2018… but 0-6 in the Ivy League last 3 years in a row? The rest of their Ivy schedule this season does not look optimistic. If they can pull off an Ivy win, awesome, definitely some improvement… but some would just say a fluke (not beating Harvard at home doesn’t exude “improvement”). Then to read posts about the lack of recruiting and “bias” in where they recruit from? That’s just a Wow! I actually did hear this same sentiment from a recent lax alum, but their current roster looks pretty diverse geographically and school wise. I hope for the coaching staff’s sake there are some extenuating circumstances at a higher level out of their control. Good luck to the Big Green the rest of the season!