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August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:02 pm In the 80's they were very good- 35-40 years ago. In the past 30 YEARS they have been to the championship once (and won) and the Final Four twice and missed the tournament ELEVEN times. They have never had a Tewaaratan winner and have but one or two other positional winners (if it wasn't for Gray (the transfer) it would be even worse). That is NOT a championship level program. It is one of the easiest, if not easiest, college to recruit to as another poster commented. My beef is, as a member of the best conference in college lacrosse, they are the doormat.

Based on your comment, "They have never had a Tewaaraton winner and have but one or two other positional winners..." maybe the comment that they "do less with more" is not accurate. All I can say is this: when UNC calls a recruit, the recruit takes the call and listens. It's not that easy for A LOT of programs. And, they are not the doormat, everything goes in cycles. UNC IS a championship level program, IMHO.

@rolldodge. A championship program would be a program that has a reasonable chance 4 out of every 5 years to make it to the Championship game. Right now, and for several years, those teams are limited to: Maryland, Virginia, Duke, Notre Dame, Yale, Cornell. No other team outside these 6 has a legitimate chance of winning.

Pretty much ALL of the schools you have mentioned have had droughts...especially Yale!

So UVA didn’t win an ACC game for I believe three years, but now have recent success, where do they stand? If they are championship caliber and UNC is not isn’t that simply recency bias?

rolldodge wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:10 pm

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:02 pm In the 80's they were very good- 35-40 years ago. In the past 30 YEARS they have been to the championship once (and won) and the Final Four twice and missed the tournament ELEVEN times. They have never had a Tewaaratan winner and have but one or two other positional winners (if it wasn't for Gray (the transfer) it would be even worse). That is NOT a championship level program. It is one of the easiest, if not easiest, college to recruit to as another poster commented. My beef is, as a member of the best conference in college lacrosse, they are the doormat.

What could possibly define a "championship program" other than winning a championship? Do you have to win more than one? Is there a cut-off in time since winning the championship?

Looking at UNC and Breschi, one can’t just gloss over the
Scroggs era UNC teams,

that decade+ stretch of teams were astounding, competing with and in many cases outperforming the leading teams of that era - they introduced a new style of lacrosse, extreme fast paced, quick strike, outstanding athletes - not supplanted in those characteristics until the Gait Syracuse teams - 3 undefeated national champion teams.

No coach is going to match that.

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:02 pm In the 80's they were very good- 35-40 years ago. In the past 30 YEARS they have been to the championship once (and won) and the Final Four twice and missed the tournament ELEVEN times. They have never had a Tewaaratan winner and have but one or two other positional winners (if it wasn't for Gray (the transfer) it would be even worse). That is NOT a championship level program. It is one of the easiest, if not easiest, college to recruit to as another poster commented. My beef is, as a member of the best conference in college lacrosse, they are the doormat.

Hurts but fair as we sit here.

Cloutier should NOT have won the TEW in '16 (Molloy earned it, #s dwarfed Cloutier's) but my Lord what a tourney.

Taking our little guy to cheer them on in Chapel Hill 5/6 to try to turn the battleship around vs ND (not holding my breath)

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:16 pm @rolldodge. A championship program would be a program that has a reasonable chance 4 out of every 5 years to make it to the Championship game. Right now, and for several years, those teams are limited to: Maryland, Virginia, Duke, Notre Dame, Yale, Cornell. No other team outside these 6 has a legitimate chance of winning.

So Cornell and Notre Dame, who have not won a championship in the past ten years (Notre Dame, never) are Championship Programs, but UNC, who won a championship 7 years ago is not. What defines a "reasonable chance to make the championship game"? Final four?

@rolldodge. Wins and Losses. No-one fears UNC (one could argue that worked to our benefit in 16). Looking at Yale, Cornell, and ND of the last 10 years... they do not land the most highly regarding recruits and they are not as easy recruiting pitches as say UNC and UVA and yet, no-one wants to play these guys in the playoffs. Trajectory up for Yale, Cornell, ND. Trajectory down for UNC. The culture of the team is crap. That shows on the field.

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:31 pm @rolldodge. Wins and Losses. No-one fears UNC (one could argue that worked to our benefit in 16). Looking at Yale, Cornell, and ND of the last 10 years... they do not land the most highly regarding recruits and they are not as easy recruiting pitches as say UNC and UVA and yet, no-one wants to play these guys in the playoffs. Trajectory up for Yale, Cornell, ND. Trajectory down for UNC. The culture of the team is crap. That shows on the field.

I think you can reasonably make your case if you define the "championship program" timeframe as "past 5 years". In which case only Yale, Maryland, and Virginia qualify.

@RD... Does UNC strike you as a program that is currently operating, preparing, and growing at the same level as Maryland and UVA?

Rumor has it Panos is out at Queens. New D1 program and an opportunity for a coach to make his mark.

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:57 pm @RD... Does UNC strike you as a program that is currently operating, preparing, and growing at the same level as Maryland and UVA?

No, but those programs right now are not only great, but arguably historically great. That’s a tough standard to hold a coach to.

Breschi is clearly capable of winning a championship and has been to Memorial Day weekend as recently as two years ago. If the administration feels that’s not good enough they might take a chance on an unproven young talent and see if they can do better. But they’re not gonna get Tillman or Tiffany. Only other coach out there with that kind of pedigree is Pietramala.

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:31 pm @rolldodge. Wins and Losses. No-one fears UNC (one could argue that worked to our benefit in 16). Looking at Yale, Cornell, and ND of the last 10 years... they do not land the most highly regarding recruits and they are not as easy recruiting pitches as say UNC and UVA and yet, no-one wants to play these guys in the playoffs. Trajectory up for Yale, Cornell, ND. Trajectory down for UNC. The culture of the team is crap. That shows on the field.

Thanks for your 9 posts so far with the majority of them being against Breschi. You obviously have an axe to grind with comments like “the culture is crap.”

Make it 10. And the culture was crap at Hopkins and Syracuse. But they are on the rebound. I have no axe to grind with Breschi. This section started with who is on the hot seat and why. I am simply pointing out that if one is guessing what team should consider, emphasis consider, a coaching change, UNC should be atop the discussion. The facts are that they lose against good teams and cannot make it in the post season; not to mention the players obviously are not in love with the lacrosse program. These are just facts. I wish it as much as anyone that UNC was better but wishing isnt working. UNC will not win an ACC game next year in this shape. Period.

August wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:12 am Make it 10. And the culture was crap at Hopkins and Syracuse. But they are on the rebound. I have no axe to grind with Breschi. This section started with who is on the hot seat and why. I am simply pointing out that if one is guessing what team should consider, emphasis consider, a coaching change, UNC should be atop the discussion. The facts are that they lose against good teams and cannot make it in the post season; not to mention the players obviously are not in love with the lacrosse program. These are just facts. I wish it as much as anyone that UNC was better but wishing isnt working. UNC will not win an ACC game next year in this shape. Period.

they are not facts. those look to be the definition of opinions. everybody's got one. if they lose next weekend, it'll be 4 nc$$s missed out of 5 (ff), following a nat'l champ. so that's the closest to a fact.

unc does have a number of successful olympic programs. as many coaches it seems are up on contract, their decision may be interesting. but no one here has an idea which way they're leaning and what things will tip the scales.

Culture smulture...pretty transparent that you're not a Breschi guy, fine....but, a Natty in 2016 and FF 2 years ago. Move the goal posts as you might, UNC is one of the top programs. Also you comically said no one is "feared" by UNC...if your guys have "fear" before playing against a high ranked opponent, then you lose. I played at little school Hobart in the 80"s(we beat 3x defending champ UNC in '83, btw)...I can promise you we feared no one...

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:31 pm Trajectory down for UNC. The culture of the team is crap. That shows on the field.

What does this mean? Breschi is liked by his players, seemingly liked by the administration, as far as I know the program is scandal-free. How is the culture crap?

FMUBart wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:15 am Culture smulture...pretty transparent that you're not a Breschi guy, fine....but, a Natty in 2016 and FF 2 years ago. Move the goal posts as you might, UNC is one of the top programs. Also you comically said no one is "feared" by UNC...if your guys have "fear" before playing against a high ranked opponent, then you lose. I played at little school Hobart in the 80"s(we beat 3x defending champ UNC in '83, btw)...I can promise you we feared no one...

That was a very good UNC team,

‘course, there was no stopping a Hopkins - Syracuse
classic finals that year.

Exlaxbro wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:05 am Rumor has it Panos is out at Queens. New D1 program and an opportunity for a coach to make his mark.

Really? After just one season as their coach in DI? And after lots of success in DII?

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:44 am

August wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:57 pm @RD... Does UNC strike you as a program that is currently operating, preparing, and growing at the same level as Maryland and UVA?

No, but those programs right now are not only great, but arguably historically great. That’s a tough standard to hold a coach to.

Breschi is clearly capable of winning a championship and has been to Memorial Day weekend as recently as two years ago. If the administration feels that’s not good enough they might take a chance on an unproven young talent and see if they can do better. But they’re not gonna get Tillman or Tiffany. Only other coach out there with that kind of pedigree is Pietramala.

Tillman was 20-19 at Harvard with 0 postseason appearances before he went to Maryland.
Lars was 95-56 in 10 years at Brown with only 3 postseason appearances and 2 wins (both in his final year).
I think you could argue both (at least Tillman) were unproven guys. UNC doesn’t need to hire someone with an incredible resume… but just the best Lacrosse coach they can get.