Duke at UVA Friday March 31 5 pm

[blue angels]

Time was UVA was heavy on LI and Baltimore but not so much anymore.

These things seem to go in cycles. We have been heavy on the New England Boarding Schools recently and for good reason. top flight academics and great players.......However, Sunderland, Millon, Malachi Jones, Gardner are all coming from Baltimore MIAA in this and next class. Think Duke assistant Caputo has a NY Club connection and Chaminade and St Anthony's are Catholic so there should be some Notre Dame appeal. We got Terenzi- Long Island this year and flipped a top rated pole from St Anthony's for 24. It looks to me like Virginia recruits more Nationally and goes where the fit is. It would be hard to argue with Lars recruiting recently.......

[Finster]

The Duke roster looks like the CHSAA all-star team.Lars has only 2 from the league.Corrigan mines that rich vein of CHSAA talent as well as Danowski does.

While I certainly can't question the quality of his recruits,I do wish Lars would elbow J.D. out of the way a bit more up here on L.I.!

I was just speaking yesterday with a friend from long island whose son played at St A’s with O’Neill. It’s amazing how much talent from Chaminade and St A’s are on that one team; it’s more amazing how much talent from just those two schools plays all over D1. Throw a dart at most D1 teams and you’ll find a player or more from St A’s and Chaminade.

I have attended one game between those two teams, and the talent level was incredible. I don’t know how they ever lose to anyone but themselves.

The only other school which produces as much is Brunswick of Connecticut, who admittedly seems to have had the better of the two Long Island schools the last five years. I’d give a small nod to Baltimore’s Boy’s Latin if only for the fact it sent on both Pat Spencer and Logan Wisnauskas, two Tewey winners.

[MDlaxfan76]

Certainly have had some great Philly area players as Philly has surpassed Baltimore as a hotbed.

Really?
Surpassed?

On your earlier post about earlier times of being heavy on LI and Baltimore, but less so now (under Lars), I think the Baltimore aspect had declined more because of Baltimore families being turned off by the Starsia era culture, and specifically the Love incident (her family is in north Baltimore and the Love Foundation has been very strong here). I know a lot of families who looked elsewhere, who might normally have gone to UVA. Don't know about the Island, but that definitely happened in Baltimore.

That said, on UVA's first NC under Lars, the best player (IMO) Ryan Conrad (Loyola) and the goalie Alex Rode (St. Pauls) were both from north Baltimore. Certainly other excellent players from Philly surrounding towns, and all over the country, but let's not write off Baltimore...

[HooDat]

but let's not write off Baltimore...

Do they even play lacrosse in Baltimore anymore?

[MDlaxfan76]

but let's not write off Baltimore...

Do they even play lacrosse in Baltimore anymore?

a little

[10stone5]

Conrad,

someone should clone that guy.

[molo]

Does the MIAA still produce some good DI lax players? Sure. Is it the epicenter of hs lacrosse? No. Thus is just the opinion of one MSA grad and son of an MSA coach. For those not steeped in the history of Maryland hs lax, the MSA was the predecessor of the MIAA. It included both private schools and what current private school students call the “pubs.”

[wgdsr]

Does the MIAA still produce some good DI lax players? Sure. Is it the epicenter of hs lacrosse? No. Thus is just the opinion of one MSA grad and son of an MSA coach. For those not steeped in the history of Maryland hs lax, the MSA was the predecessor of the MIAA. It included both private schools and what current private school students call the “pubs.”

lacrosse has grown. decades, 20+ years ago schools like virginia stopped stocking half their roster with baltimore guys. and lawn guyland guys, with a sprinkling of others. not a new phenomenon.

nowadays, they can target their top prospects in a much larger area. and hopefully get their top recruit (or sometimes 2) out of baltimore.

[HopFan16]

You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

[10 10 2]

The Duke roster looks like the CHSAA all-star team.Lars has only 2 from the league.Corrigan mines that rich vein of CHSAA talent as well as Danowski does.

While I certainly can't question the quality of his recruits,I do wish Lars would elbow J.D. out of the way a bit more up here on L.I.!

Yes Duke has enjoyed that Chaminade/St.A's pipeline for a while now. You can add UNC to the list of schools that are also trying to tap into it. I am very glad Owen Duffy is heading to Chapel Hill. Best player on arguably the best team in the country. Looking forward to Pietremala and Duffy playing together for 4 years.

[wgdsr]

You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

sounds like you're throwing down the gauntlet on someone (you?) counting up the aa's.

last 3 years?

[HopFan16]

You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

sounds like you're throwing down the gauntlet on someone (you?) counting up the aa's.

last 3 years?

I did last year's AA winners + this year's "midseason" IL honorees. If you want more data than that you're gonna have to take the baton.

Baltimore is ahead of Philly, but both are dwarfed by Long Island.

Long Island: 34
Ontario: 20
Baltimore: 18
New Jersey: 16
Philly: 13
DC/NoVa: 10
Other: 64

I lumped Upstate/western/Westchester NY, Connecticut, and Mass into "other" — I believe all would have been below DC/NoVa if counted independently. The remainder of other was comprised of guys primarily from the midwest, Colorado, California, and Oregon, with some Texas and Florida sprinkled in.

The MIAA definitely had more AA representation than any other single HS conference in the country.

I counted southern NJ (Zach Cole) under the NJ column, rather than Philly, but if you go the other way then Philly gains two and NJ loses two from the above totals.

By state, New York would be #1, followed by Maryland. It's close between Pennsylvania and NJ for #3. Connecticut and Massachusetts would follow.

My guess would be the farther back you go, the worse it'd look for Philly vis a vis Baltimore so the last year and half might be the best it gets for the ol city of brotherly love.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Conrad,

someone should clone that guy.

Tough as nails.

[wgdsr]

You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

sounds like you're throwing down the gauntlet on someone (you?) counting up the aa's.

last 3 years?

I did last year's AA winners + this year's "midseason" IL honorees. If you want more data than that you're gonna have to take the baton.

Baltimore is ahead of Philly, but both are dwarfed by Long Island.

Long Island: 34
Ontario: 20
Baltimore: 18
New Jersey: 16
Philly: 13
DC/NoVa: 10
Other: 64

I lumped Upstate/western/Westchester NY, Connecticut, and Mass into "other" — I believe all would have been below DC/NoVa if counted independently. The remainder of other was comprised of guys primarily from the midwest, Colorado, California, and Oregon, with some Texas and Florida sprinkled in.

The MIAA definitely had more AA representation than any other single HS conference in the country.

I counted southern NJ (Zach Cole) under the NJ column, rather than Philly, but if you go the other way then Philly gains two and NJ loses two from the above totals.

By state, New York would be #1, followed by Maryland. It's close between Pennsylvania and NJ for #3. Connecticut and Massachusetts would follow.

My guess would be the farther back you go, the worse it'd look for Philly vis a vis Baltimore so the last year and half might be the best it gets for the ol city of brotherly love.

thanks. nice job. but... philly has more than a couple of schools. further data might bear that out. anyway, nice job.

[random observer]

You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

sounds like you're throwing down the gauntlet on someone (you?) counting up the aa's.

last 3 years?

I did last year's AA winners + this year's "midseason" IL honorees. If you want more data than that you're gonna have to take the baton.

Baltimore is ahead of Philly, but both are dwarfed by Long Island.

Long Island: 34
Ontario: 20
Baltimore: 18
New Jersey: 16
Philly: 13
DC/NoVa: 10
Other: 64

I lumped Upstate/western/Westchester NY, Connecticut, and Mass into "other" — I believe all would have been below DC/NoVa if counted independently. The remainder of other was comprised of guys primarily from the midwest, Colorado, California, and Oregon, with some Texas and Florida sprinkled in.

The MIAA definitely had more AA representation than any other single HS conference in the country.

I counted southern NJ (Zach Cole) under the NJ column, rather than Philly, but if you go the other way then Philly gains two and NJ loses two from the above totals.

By state, New York would be #1, followed by Maryland. It's close between Pennsylvania and NJ for #3. Connecticut and Massachusetts would follow.

My guess would be the farther back you go, the worse it'd look for Philly vis a vis Baltimore so the last year and half might be the best it gets for the ol city of brotherly love.

Chaminade and St. A's alone have as many players on this season's mid-season AA list as the entire MIAA combined. That's not even factoring in that that most of the CHSAA guys are on the "teams" whereas the only position that the MIAA is represented on above HM is at SSDM.

Suffolk also has significantly more representation, and may only lose out on top "league" status if you want to be technical and split it into A/B/C.

The MIAA is a great league but everyone outside of Baltimore knows that it's not what it once was. Even with the top schools all rushing to build boarding programs and pull in elite kids from other hotbeds to maintain their edge, by and large the league is losing more OOC games to other top programs than it wins. It's extended to the college landscape too; the MIAA is highly represented in recent recruiting rankings, but beyond Brandau I'm struggling to think of any offensive player from the MIAA this year who is pushing elite status.

[molo]

RO’s last paragraph states what I was trying to convey unsuccessfully.

[HopFan16]

The MIAA is a great league but everyone outside of Baltimore knows that it's not what it once was. Even with the top schools all rushing to build boarding programs and pull in elite kids from other hotbeds to maintain their edge, by and large the league is losing more OOC games to other top programs than it wins. It's extended to the college landscape too; the MIAA is highly represented in recent recruiting rankings, but beyond Brandau I'm struggling to think of any offensive player from the MIAA this year who is pushing elite status.

Well when you've accounted for two of the last three Tewaaraton winners maybe you need a year to replenish the offensive cupboard. You've got Sunderland and Dom Petro (injured) as freshmen this year, then Millon (whose younger brother is going to be a top '25) coming next year and Ford the year after that. If any of those guys live up to their top 5 billings then it won't be long.

I don't disagree that the MIAA isn't what it used to be. But the origin of this conversation came from the idea that Baltimore has somehow fallen behind Philly as a hotbed. Don't think that's true. It's still producing a ton of high-end college talent even if the game has grown and it's no longer the one and only center of the lax universe.

[10stone5]

Larkin is out this year,
I was expecting him to have an impact this year.

[random observer]

The MIAA is a great league but everyone outside of Baltimore knows that it's not what it once was. Even with the top schools all rushing to build boarding programs and pull in elite kids from other hotbeds to maintain their edge, by and large the league is losing more OOC games to other top programs than it wins. It's extended to the college landscape too; the MIAA is highly represented in recent recruiting rankings, but beyond Brandau I'm struggling to think of any offensive player from the MIAA this year who is pushing elite status.

Well when you've accounted for two of the last three Tewaaraton winners maybe you need a year to replenish the offensive cupboard. You've got Sunderland and Dom Petro (injured) as freshmen this year, then Millon (whose younger brother is going to be a top '25) coming next year and Ford the year after that. If any of those guys live up to their top 5 billings then it won't be long.

I don't disagree that the MIAA isn't what it used to be. But the origin of this conversation came from the idea that Baltimore has somehow fallen behind Philly as a hotbed. Don't think that's true. It's still producing a ton of high-end college talent even if the game has grown and it's no longer the one and only center of the lax universe.

I mostly agree on the last point. Philly is punching above its weight but at this point, but definitely still behind Baltimore. However there are two big caveats:
1. MIAA is bringing in lots of transfers from out of the area to bolster their "hotbed" status. It creates the appearance of a larger gap than is actually there as a hotbed, and I'd argue in the long run boarding could even hurt local development in Baltimore.

2. The Philly area has a really good depth of talent relative to other areas in the classes that are just starting to hit the high school level. Whether this is a trend or an occasional spike remains to be seen.

Sunderland is off to a solid start, but far too early to tell if he'll ever be an AA let alone Tewaarton candidate; I know UVA is stacked, but truly elite guys force their way to the front of the gameplan early on (case in point: UVA teammate Connor Shellenberger).

Petro/Millon/Ford obviously we will have to wait and see, but I have some minor to not-so-minor doubts about all of them. Particularly Ford, who IMO is just not athletic enough to ever be an elite college player; I feel fairly confident he will not be a "teamer" AA.

As for Tewaarton awards, congrats to Wisnauskas And Spencer, both worthy winners. But Spencer won it four years ago now; if we're going back that far to reflect on the MIAA's merits, then that's kind of in line with my point about the trajectory of the MIAA.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The MIAA is a great league but everyone outside of Baltimore knows that it's not what it once was. Even with the top schools all rushing to build boarding programs and pull in elite kids from other hotbeds to maintain their edge, by and large the league is losing more OOC games to other top programs than it wins. It's extended to the college landscape too; the MIAA is highly represented in recent recruiting rankings, but beyond Brandau I'm struggling to think of any offensive player from the MIAA this year who is pushing elite status.

Well when you've accounted for two of the last three Tewaaraton winners maybe you need a year to replenish the offensive cupboard. You've got Sunderland and Dom Petro (injured) as freshmen this year, then Millon (whose younger brother is going to be a top '25) coming next year and Ford the year after that. If any of those guys live up to their top 5 billings then it won't be long.

I don't disagree that the MIAA isn't what it used to be. But the origin of this conversation came from the idea that Baltimore has somehow fallen behind Philly as a hotbed. Don't think that's true. It's still producing a ton of high-end college talent even if the game has grown and it's no longer the one and only center of the lax universe.

I mostly agree on the last point. Philly is punching above its weight but at this point, but definitely still behind Baltimore. However there are two big caveats:
1. MIAA is bringing in lots of transfers from out of the area to bolster their "hotbed" status. It creates the appearance of a larger gap than is actually there as a hotbed, and I'd argue in the long run boarding could even hurt local development in Baltimore.

2. The Philly area has a really good depth of talent relative to other areas in the classes that are just starting to hit the high school level. Whether this is a trend or an occasional spike remains to be seen.

Sunderland is off to a solid start, but far too early to tell if he'll ever be an AA let alone Tewaarton candidate; I know UVA is stacked, but truly elite guys force their way to the front of the gameplan early on (case in point: UVA teammate Connor Shellenberger).

Petro/Millon/Ford obviously we will have to wait and see, but I have some minor to not-so-minor doubts about all of them. Particularly Ford, who IMO is just not athletic enough to ever be an elite college player; I feel fairly confident he will not be a "teamer" AA.

As for Tewaarton awards, congrats to Wisnauskas And Spencer, both worthy winners. But Spencer won it four years ago now; if we're going back that far to reflect on the MIAA's merits, then that's kind of in line with my point about the trajectory of the MIAA.

I was talking to a Gilman buddy who mentioned 10 or 12 Varsity players at BL are boarding..... He wondered about the underclassmen yet to make varsity and guessed that close to 1/2 of the 40 boarding students are lacrosse players.