Future of WLax Rules

[DMac]

Some mighty fishy goings on there if that's the case.
Speaking of, it's a sad day, my last piece of walleye,
someone's gotta catch some more. Crazy good fish.
Twice baked potato, chives five minutes out of the
garden, five-minute old parsley too, cream cheese,
sour cream, butter, English cheddar...ridiculous.

[Dr. Tact]

Perhaps CO and Admin are the same….

I was thinking . . . . Better bite my tongue. I'm already on thin ice.

Nope....its wlaxnut (oops)

[GratefulRed]

Some mighty fishy goings on there if that's the case.
Speaking of, it's a sad day, my last piece of walleye,
someone's gotta catch some more. Crazy good fish.
Twice baked potato, chives five minutes out of the
garden, five-minute old parsley too, cream cheese,
sour cream, butter, English cheddar...ridiculous.

DMac, I'll be over right before the BC game on Thursday!

[intheknow247]

https://twitter.com/unleashedwlax/statu ... 82244?s=20

Those are some radical changes and I don't think many of them will be implemented.

So make the penalty structure and game look more like the men’s game.

You want to make the game safer? Start calling the foul’s already on the books. The horizontal stick/cross check is a great place to start.

TRUE!!!!!

[LaxDadMax]

I mean I’m still not sure how 10 a stew doesn’t result in less women playing lax in HS and in college and still haven’t heard how this proposal makes wlax any safer.

If their are smaller rosters, maybe more schools add women’s lax!!

Watched a D3 game this weekend. School only had 12 able players, with 3 injured. 15 players for a College program? That is more likely going to lead to a cancellation of the sport at that school than a growing of the game.

Reality is that women's lax is a relatively cheap way to gain Title IX compliance. Big rosters and not a lot of equipment to buy (at least compared to other sports). If you are an AD need to add a women's sport and have to choose between lax, softball, crew and water polo, its a pretty easy decision.

D3 Title IX is different than D1 or D2. No scholarship monies/assistance. You have to make a case that the same amount is spent per student athlete per sex per enrollment ratio. Pretty hard to do in D3. It isnt numbers of sports, but number of athletes based on the ratio of M/W students, so it is very hard to check. Title IX is not enforced by the NCAA only by the government....sort of like the ADA before it rolled into Building codes. You have to sue to get enforcement...

that is my understanding, if I am wrong, please let me know.

There are two components of Title IX compliance. (actually there are more, but these are the two that schools struggle with)

1) Proportionate spend
2) Proportionate participation

To you point, spend isn't often the issue for D3 schools. However, participation is. Take a school like Mt. Union, Wisconsin Whitewater, North Central or Ithaca. They all have 150+ on their football rosters.

Getting kids to pay tuition to play football is a huge revenue driver. As a result, they need to attract more female athletes and want to do so as quickly as possible.

[caged21]

Just this past weekend Kristen Skiera (VTech) and Hannah Nielsen (Michigan) posting publicly about rule changes for flopping/embellishment. Hoping more coaches jump on this bandwagon and that these rules are implemented along with new rules for enforcement of dangerous play.

[njbill]

Agree 100%. If I were an official, I would give the flopper one verbal warning (“the next flop/embellishment is a card”). Seems to me to fit squarely within the “unsportsmanlike conduct” rule. The flopper is trying to gain an unfair competitive advantage because they are trying to get at least a foul, and maybe a yellow card, assessed against their opponent. Bad bad bad. Wrong wrong wrong.

[cltlax]

Agree 100%. If I were an official, I would give the flopper one verbal warning (“the next flop/embellishment is a card”). Seems to me to fit squarely within the “unsportsmanlike conduct” rule. The flopper is trying to gain an unfair competitive advantage because they are trying to get at least a foul, and maybe a yellow card, assessed against their opponent. Bad bad bad. Wrong wrong wrong.

Unfortunately, it's taught (and rewarded) early. My daughters play against middle and high school teams where the dramatic head bob happens every time a girl gets breathed on. It would be comical if it didn't affect the game play.

[Can Opener]

On Thursday, Apr 13, 2023 at 2:35 pm I said that I support 10v10:

"+1 on 10 v 10

The offensive flow and ball movement is fun to watch in the World Lacrosse format."
https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=452561#p452561

The next day I reiterated my support for 10 v 10 and pointed out holes in the logic of saying this would limit playing opportunities. The reference to 24 v 24 was clearly a rhetorical question and not a proposal. Any reasonable reader of my post would agree. It is not accurate or truthful to say: "Your proposal was to put 24 players on each team."

10 v 10 is the opposite of growing the game. You’re decreasing opportunities for girls to play.

This! There’s nothing wrong with the number of girls on the field. We really want to limit kids playing?

You have to consider quality over quantity of playing time. There are still only 60 minutes in a game, so if you have more players on the field, each athlete will have fewer touches and time of possession on average. That's why youth soccer, hockey and lacrosse emphasize small-sided games at younger ages. To follow your logic to an extreme, why not put 24 players on the field for each team so you can double the number of girls playing? As former USC women's assistant coach Deemer Class said in response to Jenny Levy's suggestion: "All I heard from every @AUProSports player I talked to was that the lower numbers, 6v6 half field was incredible."

Again, I am happy to return to discussing the merits of an intriguing and timely issue regarding the future of NCAA women's lacrosse.

Bill,

I sincerely don't know why my support of 10v10 women's NCAA lacrosse upset you so much. I did not direct my initial comments to you and made zero personal attacks, yet your first response on Friday was the "asinine" post which you then repeated later that day, adding a fabrication:

"Your proposal was to put 24 players on each team. That is asinine. Levy's proposal is 10. I am surprised you had to look up the definition of the word. Maybe you aren't as smart as you think you are. Oh, sorry, I hope that doesn't hurt your feelings."

You have since added statements like:

"It’s OK to admit you were wrong. It doesn’t make you any less of a man. Ever heard that before?"

"Here we go again, admin. Can Opener expressly calls me a liar."

"Most recently he has called me a liar twice. Yet, he gets relief and never gets called on the carpet."

"...he is permitted to whale away at me without restriction or consequence. That ain't right."

I was careful not to call you "a liar," Bill. I did not "whale away" at you. I made no personal attacks of the ilk you posted about me. You made an untrue statement that any reasonable reader of my post above would agree was untrue. You can't read that exchange and conclude that I supported 24 v 24 and not 10 v 10. When you wrote: "Your proposal was to put 24 players on each team." that is just not accurate or true. I tried to point that out politely without name-calling. If someone shares an obvious untruth here, surely it is reasonable to point out that statement was untrue. If I write something like: "Bill has stated many times that he hates NJ girls high school lacrosse with a passion," that would not be accurate and it would be reasonable for you to respond: "That is not true." or even "That is a lie." On the other hand, this would likely be an inappropriate response in the eyes of the Admin: "CO is a liar and has always been a liar. He probably comes from a long line of liars in Boston."

BTW, your evidence purporting to show that I actually do support 24v24 instead of 10v10 seems to be my sentence from the exchange above: "To follow your logic to an extreme, why not put 24 players on the field for each team so you can double the number of girls playing?" That rhetorical question is sandwiched between my explanation for why larger-sided games don't grow the sport and my statement in support of 10v10. To only look at the second clause of my sentence is illogical. It would be like responding to an essay you wrote in support of gun control by saying this sentence Bill wrote shows that he advocates the proliferation of guns: "It makes no sense to say: Every man, woman and child in the U.S. should be given an AR15 at birth." If I only quote the part of that statement following the colon, it would seem that your essay supporting gun control was actually saying the opposite.

Again, if you want to discuss the merits of whether 10v10 or 12v12 is better for women's NCAA lacrosse, that is an interesting and multi-dimensional topic. I would be happy to engage in open and honest debate.

[laxfan22]

A flopping penalty/warning is definitely needed. We’ve all seen foul calls that are made only because the attacking player ends up on the ground despite barely being touched.

[njbill]

I actually have never seen a ref card or even whistle a player for flopping or embellishment. I wonder if anyone else has.

[8meterPA]

A flopping penalty/warning is definitely needed. We’ve all seen foul calls that are made only because the attacking player ends up on the ground despite barely being touched.

it's a bit of a circular argument - if the game was called appropriately, ie, cross checking and illegal stick to head and in the "halo" then you would probably see less flopping.

[njbill]

Says the father of an attacker.

But you make a fair point. Which comes first? The chicken or the egg?

So card both until both types of conduct stops (in Utopia).

[Laxfan500]

A flopping penalty/warning is definitely needed. We’ve all seen foul calls that are made only because the attacking player ends up on the ground despite barely being touched.

I always say “if you fall, u get the call” happens all the time sadly

[laxfan22]

A flopping penalty/warning is definitely needed. We’ve all seen foul calls that are made only because the attacking player ends up on the ground despite barely being touched.

it's a bit of a circular argument - if the game was called appropriately, ie, cross checking and illegal stick to head and in the "halo" then you would probably see less flopping.

I don’t think it’s circular at all. We know that 90% of the time there is a whistle in the 8M it’s the defense that’s called, no matter how aggressively the attacker goes to goal. Of course the attacker is going to play up any contact and it usually works. Not always and of course we see a charge once every two games.

[8meterPA]

Says the father of an attacker.

But you make a fair point. Which comes first? The chicken or the egg?

So card both until both types of conduct stops (in Utopia).

[LaxDadMax]

I actually have never seen a ref card or even whistle a player for flopping or embellishment. I wonder if anyone else has.

I saw it once in a club game and it was probably the worst flop I've ever seen. Incidental contact then girl falls to the side and knocks her goggles off with her hands while falling

[Brownlax]

I actually have never seen a ref card or even whistle a player for flopping or embellishment. I wonder if anyone else has.

I saw it once in a club game and it was probably the worst flop I've ever seen. Incidental contact then girl falls to the side and knocks her goggles off with her hands while falling

It's quite obvious that certain clubs seem to teach this strategy and it continues in college.

[njbill]

I actually have never seen a ref card or even whistle a player for flopping or embellishment. I wonder if anyone else has.

I saw it once in a club game and it was probably the worst flop I've ever seen. Incidental contact then girl falls to the side and knocks her goggles off with her hands while falling

If you were playing charades and you were the one acting out the name to be guessed and if you held up two fingers to denote you were going to pantomime the person's last name, would you pretend to hold out a piece of wood and pare off slivers?

Looked up "charades." I sh*t you not. The first hit was from a University of Maryland website.

https://www.cs.umd.edu/users/nau/misc/c ... 20possible.

I'm nominating myself to win the internet today.

[wlaxphan20]

I actually have never seen a ref card or even whistle a player for flopping or embellishment. I wonder if anyone else has.

I saw it once in a club game and it was probably the worst flop I've ever seen. Incidental contact then girl falls to the side and knocks her goggles off with her hands while falling

It's quite obvious that certain clubs seem to teach this strategy and it continues in college.

Not saying I support flopping, but from what I understand, the general consensus is that on the whole, fouls are not called enough. So, I can almost see where the embellishment is coming from. Idk, IMO a lot of things lead back to “call the GD game”