LaxPower Back-Up Stick

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

Right. Just like in 2013, when 12-3 Cornell, RPI #8, did not get a seed from the committee, and beat #6 Maryland 16-8.

And then went on to beat #3 OSU 16-6.

Yes, I well remember all the howls of outrage from the lax community about how the committee blew it by not seeding Cornell!

/sarcasm

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

I disagree. IL going 3-1 I think unfortunately adds more to “they got it right” then “we gotta change”. If both CU and Harvard lose today then maybe. Otherwise one seated team in IL losing provides no forcing function and the committee will say they got it right.

MD beat #8 UNC 13-6 in 2011
Denver beat # 8 UNC 16-14 in 2012
Yale Beat #8 PSU 10-7 in 2013
JHU beat #8 UVA 14-8 in 2014
Albany beat #8 Cornell 19-10 in 2015
#8 Cuse beat Albany 11-9 in 2016
#8 Albany beat UNC 15-12 in 2017
Cornell beat #8 Cuse 10-9 in 2018
#8 Loyola beat Cuse 15-13 in 2019
Rutgers beat #8 Lehigh 12-5 in 2021

I don’t think this game tells us anything other than that UVA didn’t build a resume of a seeded team in the regular season. Looks to me like when the #8 seed wins it’s close but when they lose not so much.

What’s more interesting is that you don’t see rising programs in those games as much as you’d think, last year reflects what Id expect most 8 v (unofficial) 9 would look like if I guessed without looking. Obviously Lehigh was missing a key piece in that game but two relatively playoff inexperienced programs (please crazy Rutgers fans don’t tell me about whatever back in the day unless you want me to start posting about Hobarts tradition on your thread which I know you’d prefer be a closed loop system without any outsiders involved)

(I think they could’ve easily been 7 or 8 but it doesn’t bear out on paper, in hindsight if Richmond had beaten Penn, which they didn’t, then maybe, but it’s not different than BigTen folks angry that people questioned their resumes in a conference only schedule last year which was entirely fair to do)

I think what yesterday showed was the IL was favored inappropriately. 3 of the IL drew first round teams that were not the stronger teams in the tournament yet 2 had close games. Brown hit a legit team and we saw the result of that. Going further, I think the committee rewarded the IL by having VA and MD play each other early, making sure to eliminate one of the real threats to final four, almost guaranteeing the IL get a berth on that weekend. I have my ideas as to why, but I don't want to get political. Bottom line, IL is over represented. 3 teams maybe, 4 would have been a stretch. 6 is crazy.

Kikin wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:41 am I think what yesterday showed was the IL was favored inappropriately. 3 of the IL drew first round teams that were not the stronger teams in the tournament yet 2 of the 3 had close games. The 4th hit a legit team and we saw the result of that. Going further, I think the committee rewarded the IL by having VA and MD play each other early, making sure to eliminate one of the real threats to final four, almost guaranteeing the IL get a berth on that weekend. I have my ideas as to why, but I don't want to get political. Bottom line, IL is over represented. 3 teams maybe, 4 would have been a stretch. 6 is crazy.

Richmond beat UVA this year. We knew St Joes would be a handful because they narrowly lost to Penn two weeks ago. And they have the top FOGO in the country which anyone who follows lacrosse knows can be a game changer. Alex Smith in 07 (vs UVA ironically), Kevin Massa in 14.

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:45 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Listed above, four (4) #8 seed ACC teams lost in the last decade.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:51 am

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:45 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Listed above, four (4) #8 seed ACC teams lost in the last decade.

Stop using facts to get in the way of their intended narrative! When I’m feeling butt hurt I know facts are the last thing I’m interested in hearing!

b1w7o9y7h wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:02 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:51 am

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:45 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Listed above, four (4) #8 seed ACC teams lost in the last decade.

Stop using facts to get in the way of their intended narrative! When I’m feeling butt hurt I know facts are the last thing I’m interested in hearing!

Let me tell you about my rock solid plan to have a ménage jennifer Garner and Minka Kelly then. We’re talking FACTs son.

(Just ignore the various kidnapping laws that will be violated in the process)

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:07 am

b1w7o9y7h wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:02 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:51 am

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:45 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Listed above, four (4) #8 seed ACC teams lost in the last decade.

Stop using facts to get in the way of their intended narrative! When I’m feeling butt hurt I know facts are the last thing I’m interested in hearing!

Let me tell you about my rock solid plan to have a ménage jennifer Garner and Minka Kelly then. We’re talking FACTs son.

(Just ignore the various kidnapping laws that will be violated in the process)

Dude, Minka got Jetered (Google it). Might I suggest Kate Beckinsale (thought she smokes like a chimney) instead. She’ll bring a special type of crazy to your tea party. Post the video link. Hail Caesar!

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:45 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Bingo. The Ivys did fine today. UVA beating Brown is a reflection of the fact that UVA is awesome, but didn't have the resume of a seeded team. A tough break for Maryland and Brown in the draw, but I still think the right thing to do is go by the results on the field rather than trying to project the eye test. And for good measure it was still anyone's game deep into the third quarter.

As for the other three games, the Ivy held serve against tournament teams. There are no easy outs in this field, especially if you're not a top two seed. St. Joe's is a very dangerous team; Yale withstood their best punch and got the win. Richmond spanked vaunted UVA. Penn played absolutely horrendous lacrosse and still came away with the win.

b1w7o9y7h wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:11 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:07 am

b1w7o9y7h wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:02 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:51 am

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:45 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Listed above, four (4) #8 seed ACC teams lost in the last decade.

Stop using facts to get in the way of their intended narrative! When I’m feeling butt hurt I know facts are the last thing I’m interested in hearing!

Let me tell you about my rock solid plan to have a ménage jennifer Garner and Minka Kelly then. We’re talking FACTs son.

(Just ignore the various kidnapping laws that will be violated in the process)

Dude, Minka got Jetered (Google it). Might I suggest Kate Beckinsale (thought she smokes like a chimney) instead. She’ll bring a special type of crazy to your tea party. Post the video link. Hail Caesar!

Alexandra Daddario?

If I worried about smokeshoes discovered by Leo Di, Jeter and 2-3 epic stick men id be reducing my universe of fantasies too much.

I’m much more focused on the Total Addressable Market and unconcerned with sloppy seconds. Totally.

And I LOVE crazy + hot.

Kikin wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:41 am I think what yesterday showed was the IL was favored inappropriately. 3 of the IL drew first round teams that were not the stronger teams in the tournament yet 2 had close games. Brown hit a legit team and we saw the result of that. Going further, I think the committee rewarded the IL by having VA and MD play each other early, making sure to eliminate one of the real threats to final four, almost guaranteeing the IL get a berth on that weekend. I have my ideas as to why, but I don't want to get political. Bottom line, IL is over represented. 3 teams maybe, 4 would have been a stretch. 6 is crazy.

I think what your posting shows is that you don't understand that selection and seeding are based on how teams performed on the field, not what league they belong to. In some ways I'd like to see your "ideas as to why" because everyone enjoys a good laugh.

CU77 wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 2:17 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

Right. Just like in 2013, when 12-3 Cornell, RPI #8, did not get a seed from the committee, and beat #6 Maryland 16-8.

And then went on to beat #3 OSU 16-6.

Yes, I well remember all the howls of outrage from the lax community about how the committee blew it by not seeding Cornell!

/sarcasm

Exactly this.

The IL has been screwed over seeding-wise for years now, and I don't remember ACC fans screaming and pulling out their hair.

As I said elsewhere, how about defending champs Yale getting a #4 seed in 2019 and having to play probably the 3rd best team in the tourney, Penn, in the quarters...and then #1 Penn State in the semis.

CORRECTION: Yale was the 5 seed, Penn the 4 seed.

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:18 am

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:45 am

blue angels wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:51 am Well…abundantly clear the committee screwed up on where they seeded Virginia, but everyone actually who knows the game, gets that.

It took the 4th game got the ACC fanboys “I told you so” cried to come out. You make it sound like a seeded team never lost a first round game before when it happens every single year. Should we make a list of seeded ACC teams that lost first round games in adt seasons? Let’s start with Cornell beating Syracuse in 2018

Bingo. The Ivys did fine today. UVA beating Brown is a reflection of the fact that UVA is awesome, but didn't have the resume of a seeded team. A tough break for Maryland and Brown in the draw, but I still think the right thing to do is go by the results on the field rather than trying to project the eye test. And for good measure it was still anyone's game deep into the third quarter.

As for the other three games, the Ivy held serve against tournament teams. There are no easy outs in this field, especially if you're not a top two seed. St. Joe's is a very dangerous team; Yale withstood their best punch and got the win. Richmond spanked vaunted UVA. Penn played absolutely horrendous lacrosse and still came away with the win.

Exactly that. And that holds for making the tournament as well as seeding. Does Duke have one of the top 10 most talented rosters in lacrosse? I would say absolutely yes. Did they deserve to make the tournament based on results on the field? No. Anyone who watches sports has seen across sports and levels extremely talented teams that underperform. For some, that prevents then from making the playoffs/tournament. Some squeak in at a lower seed than would have been predicted and alight goes on and they start playing up to their potential. It is not up to the tournament committee to rescue teams from the reality of their performance on the basis of their potential.

Could not have said that better, pcowlax. ACC fanboys seem incapable of understanding that. RPI is just a starting point. From there you have to look at whom a team beat, and to whom did they lose. This committee did exactly that. About time.

Oh for dog's sake. If this year was the worst crime since Holodomor, blow it up!
Ncaa baseball playoffs (round robin) go to mid-June, 64 teams. D3 lacrosse (the division with supposedly inferior athletes) plays an extremely condensed playoff schedule, sometimes 2 games in 3/4 days multiple rounds. If the whingers are right about the selection process being random and unfair, let everyone in, or exclude the last place teams in each league (remember, it's random!), and seed by RPI (byes if needed to even the brackets by RPI also). You're right, it's random, we admit it! But everyone has a chance. People can still be whinging about seeding, but hey, WIN YOUR GAMES: YOU'RE IN!
Set 16 game min season, 20 game max, season starts March 1st, about 2 mid-week games per month. You even get the chance to split the semis off from the finals. You can do multiple early rounds in one location over less than a week (see D3 above) depending on how deep into June you want to go.

I'm sure there are number issues with this back-of-the-envelope rant, but, like this years whingers say, it's random!

bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 12:04 pm D3 lacrosse (the division with supposedly inferior athletes) plays an extremely condensed playoff schedule, sometimes 2 games in 3/4 days multiple rounds.

D3 play-in games were earlier this week, and then this weekend was their round of 32 (Saturday) and their round of 16 (Sunday). So, for example, Tufts won yesterday is rewarded with playing one of the best teams in the country, St John Fisher, at 4 this afternoon (who also played yesterday).

For all of the people clamoring to expand the D1 playoffs, personally I don't like the games on back-to-back days of the d3 tournament. Lacrosse is too physical to play like that, imo; I think the risk of serious injury has to go up that second consecutive game.

Not to mention, if you were one of the teams playing a play-in game, you played Wednesday (I think), then if you won Saturday you get to play Sunday, too. Ouch.

ICGrad wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:43 pm

bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 12:04 pm D3 lacrosse (the division with supposedly inferior athletes) plays an extremely condensed playoff schedule, sometimes 2 games in 3/4 days multiple rounds.

D3 play-in games were earlier this week, and then this weekend was their round of 32 (Saturday) and their round of 16 (Sunday). So, for example, Tufts won yesterday is rewarded with playing one of the best teams in the country, St John Fisher, at 4 this afternoon (who also played yesterday).

For all of the people clamoring to expand the D1 playoffs, personally I don't like the games on back-to-back days of the d3 tournament. Lacrosse is too physical to play like that, imo; I think the risk of serious injury has to go up that second consecutive game.

Not to mention, if you were one of the teams playing a play-in game, you played Wednesday (I think), then if you won Saturday you get to play Sunday, too. Ouch.

So what? You think teams would rather sit home watching than take the risks of short rest between games or injury?

clamor...clamor...

ICGrad wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 1:43 pm

bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 12:04 pm D3 lacrosse (the division with supposedly inferior athletes) plays an extremely condensed playoff schedule, sometimes 2 games in 3/4 days multiple rounds.

D3 play-in games were earlier this week, and then this weekend was their round of 32 (Saturday) and their round of 16 (Sunday). So, for example, Tufts won yesterday is rewarded with playing one of the best teams in the country, St John Fisher, at 4 this afternoon (who also played yesterday).

For all of the people clamoring to expand the D1 playoffs, personally I don't like the games on back-to-back days of the d3 tournament. Lacrosse is too physical to play like that, imo; I think the risk of serious injury has to go up that second consecutive game.

Not to mention, if you were one of the teams playing a play-in game, you played Wednesday (I think), then if you won Saturday you get to play Sunday, too. Ouch.

For Tufts to drop 33 on an inferior opponent like yesterday, here’s to hoping they lose today.