LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:46 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:06 am Eh I don't totally buy the funding issue. How much was that staff really making? Couldn't have been that much. If they couldn't afford them to the point where they had to literally leave the program, then it's going to be nearly impossible to hire someone else with college coaching experience.

I think the recruiting thing sounds more likely. Over on the UVA Sabre boards, someone mentioned something about how one of their commits had recently flipped to Utah under murky circumstances, and without going into specifics, the implication IMO was that there was a lot more to that story. Perhaps Utah bringing that player in caused some issues, especially if there had already been some concerns from the admin about recruiting.

I don't know anything, but of the two competing explanations, that one sounds more realistic. And it also makes sense given the weird timeline of events. I'm betting a lot of established D1 head coaches are not going to touch this situation with a 10 foot pole. But an assistant or a D2/D3 guy looking to break into the D1 head coaching ranks may be happy to look past it all.

mmmm, exactly what could a coach at Utah offer a player committed to UVA that would get them to flip?

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:47 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:46 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:06 am Eh I don't totally buy the funding issue. How much was that staff really making? Couldn't have been that much. If they couldn't afford them to the point where they had to literally leave the program, then it's going to be nearly impossible to hire someone else with college coaching experience.

I think the recruiting thing sounds more likely. Over on the UVA Sabre boards, someone mentioned something about how one of their commits had recently flipped to Utah under murky circumstances, and without going into specifics, the implication IMO was that there was a lot more to that story. Perhaps Utah bringing that player in caused some issues, especially if there had already been some concerns from the admin about recruiting.

I don't know anything, but of the two competing explanations, that one sounds more realistic. And it also makes sense given the weird timeline of events. I'm betting a lot of established D1 head coaches are not going to touch this situation with a 10 foot pole. But an assistant or a D2/D3 guy looking to break into the D1 head coaching ranks may be happy to look past it all.

mmmm, exactly what could a coach at Utah offer a player committed to UVA that would get them to flip?

Far more likely that the "more to the story" aspect would have been about the kid and UVA Admissions, but not something folks wanted to talk about. It's not as if the coaches at Utah would have the resources to play super fast and loose ala basketball or football, money sports. It's lax...at Utah.

None of this is adding up for me other than perhaps a "Covid" and post SCOTUS/NCAA review of athletic revenues and expenses.

Mormon ski bunnies?

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:46 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:06 am Eh I don't totally buy the funding issue. How much was that staff really making? Couldn't have been that much. If they couldn't afford them to the point where they had to literally leave the program, then it's going to be nearly impossible to hire someone else with college coaching experience.

I think the recruiting thing sounds more likely. Over on the UVA Sabre boards, someone mentioned something about how one of their commits had recently flipped to Utah under murky circumstances, and without going into specifics, the implication IMO was that there was a lot more to that story. Perhaps Utah bringing that player in caused some issues, especially if there had already been some concerns from the admin about recruiting.

I don't know anything, but of the two competing explanations, that one sounds more realistic. And it also makes sense given the weird timeline of events. I'm betting a lot of established D1 head coaches are not going to touch this situation with a 10 foot pole. But an assistant or a D2/D3 guy looking to break into the D1 head coaching ranks may be happy to look past it all.

mmmm, exactly what could a coach at Utah offer a player committed to UVA that would get them to flip?

I didn't say that's what happened.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:54 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:46 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:06 am Eh I don't totally buy the funding issue. How much was that staff really making? Couldn't have been that much. If they couldn't afford them to the point where they had to literally leave the program, then it's going to be nearly impossible to hire someone else with college coaching experience.

I think the recruiting thing sounds more likely. Over on the UVA Sabre boards, someone mentioned something about how one of their commits had recently flipped to Utah under murky circumstances, and without going into specifics, the implication IMO was that there was a lot more to that story. Perhaps Utah bringing that player in caused some issues, especially if there had already been some concerns from the admin about recruiting.

I don't know anything, but of the two competing explanations, that one sounds more realistic. And it also makes sense given the weird timeline of events. I'm betting a lot of established D1 head coaches are not going to touch this situation with a 10 foot pole. But an assistant or a D2/D3 guy looking to break into the D1 head coaching ranks may be happy to look past it all.

mmmm, exactly what could a coach at Utah offer a player committed to UVA that would get them to flip?

I didn't say that's what happened.

ahhh, I see your point.

Laxxal22 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:31 pm Utah's top 2022 commit flips to Richmond. https://twitter.com/natlaxfed/status/14 ... 6583186435

redfoxalum wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 pm The timing is far from ideal, but Holy Cross made a pretty splashy hire with Reppert at an even more inopportune time. Sheridan is an intriguing candidate. Attended a west coast college, has experience as head coach of a startup program, and as an assistant at a western D1 program. His Cleveland State tenure wasn’t on most fans’ radars but was rather impressive given the difficult circumstances of that job. Think he could thrive at Utah, with the prospect of an automatic bid to the tournament and a lot of institutional advantages over other ASun programs.

Young family and in-laws in NE Ohio may be a hurdle.

ggait wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:18 am

Young family and in-laws in NE Ohio may be a hurdle.

Sheridan's F-I-L lives in Denver. That Bill Tierney guy, right?

Sheridan was a regular in the camp and club team circles out here in CO when he was working at DU. So he'd have as good a western lax network as anyone would. Played a bit for the Denver Outlaws IIRC.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:37 pm

redfoxalum wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 pm The timing is far from ideal, but Holy Cross made a pretty splashy hire with Reppert at an even more inopportune time. Sheridan is an intriguing candidate. Attended a west coast college, has experience as head coach of a startup program, and as an assistant at a western D1 program. His Cleveland State tenure wasn’t on most fans’ radars but was rather impressive given the difficult circumstances of that job. Think he could thrive at Utah, with the prospect of an automatic bid to the tournament and a lot of institutional advantages over other ASun programs.

Young family and in-laws in NE Ohio may be a hurdle.

LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:33 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:37 pm

redfoxalum wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 pm The timing is far from ideal, but Holy Cross made a pretty splashy hire with Reppert at an even more inopportune time. Sheridan is an intriguing candidate. Attended a west coast college, has experience as head coach of a startup program, and as an assistant at a western D1 program. His Cleveland State tenure wasn’t on most fans’ radars but was rather impressive given the difficult circumstances of that job. Think he could thrive at Utah, with the prospect of an automatic bid to the tournament and a lot of institutional advantages over other ASun programs.

Young family and in-laws in NE Ohio may be a hurdle.

His wife just started a D1 program in Ohio. Doubt they would leave.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:19 pm

FMUBart wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:04 pm

laxpert wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:43 am According to information found online the salaries for Brian Holman and Will Manny were 140K and 66K respectively. Compare that to Suny Bing. Head Coach McKeown at 79K with assistant Kline at 49K. It's often speculated that MAAC head jobs are in that same range or less.

This makes sense to me, together with a hefty travel budget, my guess is Utah will be dialing back the salaries more in line with a Jacksonville type structure... Could be wrong, but the job will now potentially been seen as a stepping stone vs destination job for a HC.

I’m sure Salt Lake has a meaningful cost of living factor over Vestal NY. I mean you can’t find much above $250-$300k in Broome Co. This is one of my best friends parents house (where he grew up) https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3332 ... 1392_zpid/

They bought in 1989 for around $250k and 30yrs later it’s worth less than $400k in one of the nicer parts of the area known as South Mountain (town of binghamton on vestal border, the family that developed all the retail in vestal parkway and all that student housing as well lives on the end of this street with a helicopter pad and their house is maybe $750k for all that).

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:44 am

LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:33 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:37 pm

redfoxalum wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 pm The timing is far from ideal, but Holy Cross made a pretty splashy hire with Reppert at an even more inopportune time. Sheridan is an intriguing candidate. Attended a west coast college, has experience as head coach of a startup program, and as an assistant at a western D1 program. His Cleveland State tenure wasn’t on most fans’ radars but was rather impressive given the difficult circumstances of that job. Think he could thrive at Utah, with the prospect of an automatic bid to the tournament and a lot of institutional advantages over other ASun programs.

Young family and in-laws in NE Ohio may be a hurdle.

His wife just started a D1 program in Ohio. Doubt they would leave.

Where?

DU-fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:25 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:44 am

LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:33 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:37 pm

redfoxalum wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 pm The timing is far from ideal, but Holy Cross made a pretty splashy hire with Reppert at an even more inopportune time. Sheridan is an intriguing candidate. Attended a west coast college, has experience as head coach of a startup program, and as an assistant at a western D1 program. His Cleveland State tenure wasn’t on most fans’ radars but was rather impressive given the difficult circumstances of that job. Think he could thrive at Utah, with the prospect of an automatic bid to the tournament and a lot of institutional advantages over other ASun programs.

Young family and in-laws in NE Ohio may be a hurdle.

His wife just started a D1 program in Ohio. Doubt they would leave.

Where?

https://kentstatesports.com/sports/wome ... ierney/834

laxpert wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:09 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:19 pm

FMUBart wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:04 pm

laxpert wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:43 am According to information found online the salaries for Brian Holman and Will Manny were 140K and 66K respectively. Compare that to Suny Bing. Head Coach McKeown at 79K with assistant Kline at 49K. It's often speculated that MAAC head jobs are in that same range or less.

This makes sense to me, together with a hefty travel budget, my guess is Utah will be dialing back the salaries more in line with a Jacksonville type structure... Could be wrong, but the job will now potentially been seen as a stepping stone vs destination job for a HC.

I’m sure Salt Lake has a meaningful cost of living factor over Vestal NY. I mean you can’t find much above $250-$300k in Broome Co. This is one of my best friends parents house (where he grew up) https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3332 ... 1392_zpid/

They bought in 1989 for around $250k and 30yrs later it’s worth less than $400k in one of the nicer parts of the area known as South Mountain (town of binghamton on vestal border, the family that developed all the retail in vestal parkway and all that student housing as well lives on the end of this street with a helicopter pad and their house is maybe $750k for all that).

Agree you can buy a nice home in the 300K range in Binghamton area but I would estimate your yearly tax bill would be approximately 13,000 /yr,
which offsets the housing value. I will defer to those who know the tax structure in the SLC area but people often find the taxes are half of what they paid when they leave the Empire State.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:51 am

bar_down wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:01 pm

FMUBart wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:18 pm

bar_down wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:32 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:03 am

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:59 am

BigTom5 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:08 am Or one of Lars’ assistants

Yeah I could see Kirwan putting his hat in the ring for this one, like he has for several other recent openings.

The timing stinks—I’m not sure what kind of candidate they’re going to be able to land at this point. They’re better off naming Manny the interim for the upcoming season and doing the real search next spring/summer though based on that press release it doesn’t sound like that’s in the cards.

Suppose guys like Sowell and Meade are floating around out there. Sowell probably could be a great fit just I’ll put w wear coast athletes and crush western Canada for recruits. He could conceivably take down a well established now Denver program run by Matt Brown if he chose and had some breaks. I think a ball roll out recruit like hell guy is the right candidate. Sowell, Kerwick, Desko, etc. not a top down command and control type coach. Sell skiing and Mormon hotties. The Jazz have the reigning NBA mvp. I like Snowbasin Ogden and Salt Lake a lot personally. There’s also a decent little tech sector in the Provo area I believe it was Macafee and some first generation businesses but more contemporary ones there too.

In fact I have deep inside knowledge of Furman ans would expect Utah to have more success than Furman all day and night based on culture and other considerations.

Sowell is a complete non factor in recruiting. During his time at USNA Wellner did 100% the recruiting for the Midshipmen. On my sons visit Sowell said hello, and that's it, the rest of the time he spent with Wellner. I know four kids currently on their roster and all the parents had the same experience, so I know but wasn't unique to my sons recruitment. One would think that Utah would want a coach that enjoys that aspect of running a program.

His SBU success flies contrary to your narrative; and, he obviously trusted Wellner enough to let him do the heavy lifting--it's called delegating. Don't think for a second that Sowell wasn't involved in every recruiting decision..

It isn't a narrative, It's a lived experience. Only one of the two of us has first hand experience with him and recruiting and it ain't you. Of all the schools my son visited he spent at least an hour with each head coach, in three cases the entire time was spent with the head coach except for at the USNA. There Sewell said hello and the rest of the time was spent with Wellner, who is a great guy.

Obviously he watched film and decided who they should recruit but he had nothing to do with the actual recruiting of the player. You can point to his success at Stoney Brook but it speaks volumes that Wellner traded up within weeks of hitting the street and no one has hired Sowell.

I not bashing him as a person as I didn't speak enough with him to form an opinion, but I strongly suspect that the Utah AD isn't going to hire a hands off recruiting head coach right on the heels of a head coach who didn't enjoy recruiting and largely delegated that responsibility to Manny and Ghitleman. Again that isn't narrative. I spent an afternoon with him while he was still at UNC and he told me personally he detested wooing 16 year olds.

The funny thing is that are people that read these boards that have inside knowledge of the coaches and teams you watch every weekend but don't post because of guys like you. Congrats.

bar down, no need to be quite this testy. You simply have a different point of view, different conclusions.

You had said, "Sowell is a complete non factor in recruiting. During his time at USNA Wellner did 100% the recruiting for the Midshipmen."

That's an awfully strong statement, and it indeed is belied by his success at Stony Brook and Dartmouth. Sowell certainly was a significant part of the recruiting process at those schools, regardless of which coach was delegated to as the recruiting coordinator.

That said, your son's experience is consistent, if I recall correctly, with what others said about Wellner being the primary point of contact for recruits at USNA. Certainly worth sharing.

You're also implying something in Sowell's thinking based on what you heard from a different coach about his thinking. BTW, I'm not sure any of these HC's like wooing 16 year olds, much less the 14 year olds they were having to talk to back a few years ago.

Keep posting your views, please, but no need to get your back up IMO.

BTW, I had a bit of exposure to Rick when he was at Dartmouth...personally I found him quite prickly, uninterested in meeting an alum of the program, even a quite active one on the Friends board. That surprised me at the time. On the other hand, he was terrifically successful at bringing serious talent into the program and marshaling that talent in short order in elevating the program during his tenure. Multiple All-Americans, the first time such since my era.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:32 am Can Utah match these rates ?

https://www.thestjames.com/sports/lacrosse

https://www.sowelllax.com/

Current Rates
-- Initial Assessment & Consultation (required) - $500
-- Standard Annual Program - $3,000
-- All fees are due in advance of services

I agree with ffg that Sowell might be a success at Utah if he can recruit P5 caliber athletes & let 'em play, especially if he could get a few W Canadian experienced box players, like he inherited at SB.