Same Party, Different House
https://fanlax.com/forum/
My guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
and for the record, all that's happened so far is texas and oklahoma have been invited into the sec.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:22 pmEveryone glosses over this:a fan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:40 pmYou missed the first few pages of discussion on this topic. We went over this ground, if you're interested to have a look.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:24 pm https://www.npr.org/2021/06/21/10003100 ... row-ruling
In a blistering concurring opinion, Justice Brett Kavanaugh added that the sports traditions near and dear to alumni and others "cannot justify the NCAA's decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated. Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate," he said, adding: "The NCAA is not above the law."
No. You just implied that they would when you said "that doesn't recruit". ESPN can't recruit players. Nor can Nike.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm I have never stated that the school would be paying athletes. Instead, they can now be paid by Nike or ESPN.
The law, as I understand it, wouldn't.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm How would title IX mandate ESPN to pay a soft ball pitcher the same as a QB?
But politicians are fickle creatures. And the Federal Government has every single one of these "power" schools by the shorts.
I'm with you on this line of thinking, because it's where I started in evaluated this new landscape. But the politics of doing what you are suggesting are complicated.
Financially? Alabama could do without Football. They couldn't survive without Federal money. The whole thing is a mess.
https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2 ... 234632592/
Kessler could have lost the case if he asked for more. Remember, only Justice Kavanaugh is a sure bet to support the broader dismantling of amateurism. During the oral argument, several other justices notably expressed trepidation about using antitrust litigation to force athletics-related reforms. Justice Breyer opined that he “worried about judges getting into the business of amateur sports” while Chief Justice John Roberts warned of the game of Jenga, where “all of a sudden the whole thing comes crashing down.”
I believe some Big Ten schools have also been targeted.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:56 pmand for the record, all that's happened so far is texas and oklahoma have been invited into the sec.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:22 pmEveryone glosses over this:a fan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:40 pmYou missed the first few pages of discussion on this topic. We went over this ground, if you're interested to have a look.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:24 pm https://www.npr.org/2021/06/21/10003100 ... row-ruling
In a blistering concurring opinion, Justice Brett Kavanaugh added that the sports traditions near and dear to alumni and others "cannot justify the NCAA's decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated. Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate," he said, adding: "The NCAA is not above the law."
No. You just implied that they would when you said "that doesn't recruit". ESPN can't recruit players. Nor can Nike.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm I have never stated that the school would be paying athletes. Instead, they can now be paid by Nike or ESPN.
The law, as I understand it, wouldn't.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm How would title IX mandate ESPN to pay a soft ball pitcher the same as a QB?
But politicians are fickle creatures. And the Federal Government has every single one of these "power" schools by the shorts.
I'm with you on this line of thinking, because it's where I started in evaluated this new landscape. But the politics of doing what you are suggesting are complicated.
Financially? Alabama could do without Football. They couldn't survive without Federal money. The whole thing is a mess.
https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2 ... 234632592/
Kessler could have lost the case if he asked for more. Remember, only Justice Kavanaugh is a sure bet to support the broader dismantling of amateurism. During the oral argument, several other justices notably expressed trepidation about using antitrust litigation to force athletics-related reforms. Justice Breyer opined that he “worried about judges getting into the business of amateur sports” while Chief Justice John Roberts warned of the game of Jenga, where “all of a sudden the whole thing comes crashing down.”
and not a small thing, espn has locked into 2030 something.
And this is where Title 9 provides a check on a separate entity for football/basketball and the non-revs.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 pmhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
“Counter to what most might think, the money does not come from football’s marquee championship, the College Football Playoff (CFP). These national costs are borne by the NCAA through its primary revenue source — the basketball championships.
Unlike its basketball counterpart, the CFP national championship for teams in the big-time Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) is managed independent of the NCAA. Odd as it may sound, the NCAA actually receives no money from big-revenue football.
You read that correctly: zero. The championship experiences of the 57,000 football athletes competing in divisions other than big-time FBS football only exist because the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments pay for them.
The NCAA justly uses revenue from the basketball tournaments to support its mission for the collective good of college sports, providing national services and 90 championship events in three competitive divisions, impacting more than 500,000 college athletes.”
So when power 5 basketball breaks away, those athletic departments will have a big hole to fill.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-co ... ake-money/
not saying they haven't. the p5 have done this twice before and got concessions. maybe they go their own way now.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:58 pmI believe some Big Ten schools have also been targeted.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:56 pmand for the record, all that's happened so far is texas and oklahoma have been invited into the sec.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:22 pmEveryone glosses over this:a fan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:40 pmYou missed the first few pages of discussion on this topic. We went over this ground, if you're interested to have a look.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:24 pm https://www.npr.org/2021/06/21/10003100 ... row-ruling
In a blistering concurring opinion, Justice Brett Kavanaugh added that the sports traditions near and dear to alumni and others "cannot justify the NCAA's decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated. Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate," he said, adding: "The NCAA is not above the law."
No. You just implied that they would when you said "that doesn't recruit". ESPN can't recruit players. Nor can Nike.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm I have never stated that the school would be paying athletes. Instead, they can now be paid by Nike or ESPN.
The law, as I understand it, wouldn't.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm How would title IX mandate ESPN to pay a soft ball pitcher the same as a QB?
But politicians are fickle creatures. And the Federal Government has every single one of these "power" schools by the shorts.
I'm with you on this line of thinking, because it's where I started in evaluated this new landscape. But the politics of doing what you are suggesting are complicated.
Financially? Alabama could do without Football. They couldn't survive without Federal money. The whole thing is a mess.
https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2 ... 234632592/
Kessler could have lost the case if he asked for more. Remember, only Justice Kavanaugh is a sure bet to support the broader dismantling of amateurism. During the oral argument, several other justices notably expressed trepidation about using antitrust litigation to force athletics-related reforms. Justice Breyer opined that he “worried about judges getting into the business of amateur sports” while Chief Justice John Roberts warned of the game of Jenga, where “all of a sudden the whole thing comes crashing down.”
and not a small thing, espn has locked into 2030 something.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... vey-shows/
Did I say they are doing it for money? I said what’s going to happen to schools that may not get a distribution.Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:21 pmAnd this is where Title 9 provides a check on a separate entity for football/basketball and the non-revs.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 pmhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
“Counter to what most might think, the money does not come from football’s marquee championship, the College Football Playoff (CFP). These national costs are borne by the NCAA through its primary revenue source — the basketball championships.
Unlike its basketball counterpart, the CFP national championship for teams in the big-time Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) is managed independent of the NCAA. Odd as it may sound, the NCAA actually receives no money from big-revenue football.
You read that correctly: zero. The championship experiences of the 57,000 football athletes competing in divisions other than big-time FBS football only exist because the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments pay for them.
The NCAA justly uses revenue from the basketball tournaments to support its mission for the collective good of college sports, providing national services and 90 championship events in three competitive divisions, impacting more than 500,000 college athletes.”
So when power 5 basketball breaks away, those athletic departments will have a big hole to fill.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-co ... ake-money/
Athletic departments fund scholarships for athletes. They pay the university. Just like now, the overall athletic support (i.e., scholarships) offered to athletes must match the overall university's gender ratio. The real reason football and basketball will split off has nothing to do with money. They're already maximizing their money. It has everything to do with P5 schools wanting their own set of rules. Power and money...money and power.
Yes. It will be interesting to see who is all in if the model is professional sports.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:49 pmnot saying they haven't. the p5 have done this twice before and got concessions. maybe they go their own way now.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:58 pmI believe some Big Ten schools have also been targeted.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:56 pmand for the record, all that's happened so far is texas and oklahoma have been invited into the sec.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:22 pmEveryone glosses over this:a fan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:40 pmYou missed the first few pages of discussion on this topic. We went over this ground, if you're interested to have a look.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:24 pm https://www.npr.org/2021/06/21/10003100 ... row-ruling
In a blistering concurring opinion, Justice Brett Kavanaugh added that the sports traditions near and dear to alumni and others "cannot justify the NCAA's decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated. Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate," he said, adding: "The NCAA is not above the law."
No. You just implied that they would when you said "that doesn't recruit". ESPN can't recruit players. Nor can Nike.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm I have never stated that the school would be paying athletes. Instead, they can now be paid by Nike or ESPN.
The law, as I understand it, wouldn't.OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm How would title IX mandate ESPN to pay a soft ball pitcher the same as a QB?
But politicians are fickle creatures. And the Federal Government has every single one of these "power" schools by the shorts.
I'm with you on this line of thinking, because it's where I started in evaluated this new landscape. But the politics of doing what you are suggesting are complicated.
Financially? Alabama could do without Football. They couldn't survive without Federal money. The whole thing is a mess.
https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2 ... 234632592/
Kessler could have lost the case if he asked for more. Remember, only Justice Kavanaugh is a sure bet to support the broader dismantling of amateurism. During the oral argument, several other justices notably expressed trepidation about using antitrust litigation to force athletics-related reforms. Justice Breyer opined that he “worried about judges getting into the business of amateur sports” while Chief Justice John Roberts warned of the game of Jenga, where “all of a sudden the whole thing comes crashing down.”
and not a small thing, espn has locked into 2030 something.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... vey-shows/
everybody talks like the nc$$ is some overiding oligarchy they have to leave. the nc$$ is a collection of school ad's and presidents. a p5 one will just be a smaller one.
this is the dumbest article ever written. in the history of dumb articles. that's saying something.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 pmhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
“Counter to what most might think, the money does not come from football’s marquee championship, the College Football Playoff (CFP). These national costs are borne by the NCAA through its primary revenue source — the basketball championships.
Unlike its basketball counterpart, the CFP national championship for teams in the big-time Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) is managed independent of the NCAA. Odd as it may sound, the NCAA actually receives no money from big-revenue football.
You read that correctly: zero. The championship experiences of the 57,000 football athletes competing in divisions other than big-time FBS football only exist because the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments pay for them.
The NCAA justly uses revenue from the basketball tournaments to support its mission for the collective good of college sports, providing national services and 90 championship events in three competitive divisions, impacting more than 500,000 college athletes.”
So when power 5 basketball breaks away, those athletic departments will have a big hole to fill.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-co ... ake-money/
Which one? Anyone can blog.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 pmthis is the dumbest article ever written. in the history of dumb articles. that's saying something.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 pmhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
“Counter to what most might think, the money does not come from football’s marquee championship, the College Football Playoff (CFP). These national costs are borne by the NCAA through its primary revenue source — the basketball championships.
Unlike its basketball counterpart, the CFP national championship for teams in the big-time Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) is managed independent of the NCAA. Odd as it may sound, the NCAA actually receives no money from big-revenue football.
You read that correctly: zero. The championship experiences of the 57,000 football athletes competing in divisions other than big-time FBS football only exist because the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments pay for them.
The NCAA justly uses revenue from the basketball tournaments to support its mission for the collective good of college sports, providing national services and 90 championship events in three competitive divisions, impacting more than 500,000 college athletes.”
So when power 5 basketball breaks away, those athletic departments will have a big hole to fill.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-co ... ake-money/
ok, both are ridiculous.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:02 pmWhich one? Anyone can blog.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 pmthis is the dumbest article ever written. in the history of dumb articles. that's saying something.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 pmhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
“Counter to what most might think, the money does not come from football’s marquee championship, the College Football Playoff (CFP). These national costs are borne by the NCAA through its primary revenue source — the basketball championships.
Unlike its basketball counterpart, the CFP national championship for teams in the big-time Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) is managed independent of the NCAA. Odd as it may sound, the NCAA actually receives no money from big-revenue football.
You read that correctly: zero. The championship experiences of the 57,000 football athletes competing in divisions other than big-time FBS football only exist because the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments pay for them.
The NCAA justly uses revenue from the basketball tournaments to support its mission for the collective good of college sports, providing national services and 90 championship events in three competitive divisions, impacting more than 500,000 college athletes.”
So when power 5 basketball breaks away, those athletic departments will have a big hole to fill.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-co ... ake-money/
Yes! With a straight face….There is no profit left.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:17 pmok, both are ridiculous.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:02 pmWhich one? Anyone can blog.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 pmthis is the dumbest article ever written. in the history of dumb articles. that's saying something.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 pmhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
“Counter to what most might think, the money does not come from football’s marquee championship, the College Football Playoff (CFP). These national costs are borne by the NCAA through its primary revenue source — the basketball championships.
Unlike its basketball counterpart, the CFP national championship for teams in the big-time Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) is managed independent of the NCAA. Odd as it may sound, the NCAA actually receives no money from big-revenue football.
You read that correctly: zero. The championship experiences of the 57,000 football athletes competing in divisions other than big-time FBS football only exist because the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments pay for them.
The NCAA justly uses revenue from the basketball tournaments to support its mission for the collective good of college sports, providing national services and 90 championship events in three competitive divisions, impacting more than 500,000 college athletes.”
So when power 5 basketball breaks away, those athletic departments will have a big hole to fill.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-co ... ake-money/
i was talking about the first.
but i'm also all in on folks talking about how sports don't make money in general. i wish saban did a tour of his lake house.
so if microsoft did $600 billion in revenue in 2035 and decided to spend dough on women and song and then blow the rest, they weren't making money? lol!!!
Sure but how are they allocated expenses, financial statements are supposed to reflect reality so there should be fully lock stock allocated expenses across the board including some licensing fee for brand, rental expense (even if we’re talking internal books or shadow allocation but it would be closer to gaap that way) for facilities, etc. there’s probably a few that make money but I suspect if fully accounted for properly I bet it’s no more than 15, probably 10 or less. But I am certain that higher Ed financial statements and accounting are a improper joke with no accountability so we can’t say for sure anyone makes a profit year to year or if 50 programs do. I would submit that any residual cash flow sent to the university at a min is fair compensation for the use the the brand and facilities probably not enough I bet though. It’s not unreasonable. Catching up w the president of the Fox school of business at Temple last winter he told me they make serious dough but it finds the rest of the university including their nice new library (which I imagine the b school kids use some). Colleges treat “profitable” units like as much fund no different than the NY Thruway system which was supposed to go away once it was paid for but instead cash flow is a piggy bank for state politicians while basic R&M doesn’t get covered often or even set aside from the net revenue transfers the state takes.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:17 pmok, both are ridiculous.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:02 pmWhich one? Anyone can blog.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 pmthis is the dumbest article ever written. in the history of dumb articles. that's saying something.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 pmhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4836629001Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:39 pmMy guess? The same as it is now. Athletic departments will still oversee all of the sports.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:13 amWho will pay for all the remaining NCAA sports? The college basketball tournament pays for a good chunk of them now.
“Counter to what most might think, the money does not come from football’s marquee championship, the College Football Playoff (CFP). These national costs are borne by the NCAA through its primary revenue source — the basketball championships.
Unlike its basketball counterpart, the CFP national championship for teams in the big-time Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) is managed independent of the NCAA. Odd as it may sound, the NCAA actually receives no money from big-revenue football.
You read that correctly: zero. The championship experiences of the 57,000 football athletes competing in divisions other than big-time FBS football only exist because the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments pay for them.
The NCAA justly uses revenue from the basketball tournaments to support its mission for the collective good of college sports, providing national services and 90 championship events in three competitive divisions, impacting more than 500,000 college athletes.”
So when power 5 basketball breaks away, those athletic departments will have a big hole to fill.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-co ... ake-money/
i was talking about the first.
but i'm also all in on folks talking about how sports don't make money in general. i wish saban did a tour of his lake house.
so if microsoft did $600 billion in revenue in 2035 and decided to spend dough on women and song and then blow the rest, they weren't making money? lol!!!
In hindsight, the P5 schools fatal mistake was not spending their energy to antitrust collude to suppress the salaries of coaches. Instead of colluding to suppress player compensation.but i'm also all in on folks talking about how sports don't make money in general. i wish saban did a tour of his lake house.
so if microsoft did $600 billion in revenue in 2035 and decided to spend dough on women and song and then blow the rest, they weren't making money? lol!!!
+1.ggait wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:46 pmIn hindsight, the P5 schools fatal mistake was not spending their energy to antitrust collude to suppress the salaries of coaches. Instead of colluding to suppress player compensation.but i'm also all in on folks talking about how sports don't make money in general. i wish saban did a tour of his lake house.
so if microsoft did $600 billion in revenue in 2035 and decided to spend dough on women and song and then blow the rest, they weren't making money? lol!!!
If Saban and and Coach K made something between what an English prof and the university prez make, the system never would have been challenged and you never would have demands to pay players. And the schools would have been able to keep all the revenue and could pay for whatever else they wanted -- womens XC team, new dorms, a new library, whatever.
But once you let those guys make $8-9 million a year, that single fact renders the entire system untenable. No matter how much money you pour into non-revenue sports as the fig leaf justification, the system still is exploitive and unfair (in addition to illegal). Unrestricted full market shameless commerce for the coaches is fundamentally inconsistent with all claims of academic amateurism for student athletes.
The college position to those guys should have been: we'll miss you; best of luck coaching the Dolphins/Lakers. There would have been unlimited HQ candidates willing to replace them for mid six figures, plus some NIL, camps, etc. on the side. But once you pay one guy 7 figures....Katy bar the door.