2024

[cradleandshoot]

Todd, you realize I'm not blasting Psaki, right? I'm pointing out the same hypocrisy that you are.

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

Haven't had a chance yet! I just got back.

But there's a big difference between, for example, boilerplate WH spokesman buffalo bagels we've seen since TV was invented (things are going great in Vietnam, we promise)....and shutting down all questions completely for an entire year. I'm on MD's side on this count. Come on.....being MIA for a year?

I'm just getting warmed up on Biden. He hasn't done anything yet, really.

Everyone here pointed out that BIden F'ed up on Afghanistan. So the Forum's Trump-haters are already doing just fine in terms of equal criticisms.

What they didn't do, and rightly so, place ALL of the blame for the Afghan collapse on Biden. Because that's absurd...Biden's hasn't even been around for a full baseball season yet, let alone for 20 years.


But Biden is on the clock, and the clock runs out for many of these items in a few months. On my short list:

-he has to repeal (or try, he can't do it alone) the Trump Tax cuts
-he has to end the tariffs. That's China and the UK/EU. It's now Biden's tariffs until he changes them.
-he has to do SOMETHING to help the bottom 80% voters---the Trump "forgotten voter." An example would be the child tax checks that are going out. If he makes that permanent? He's made a big, big, big difference in the lives of the bottom earners in America.
-he has to pass the infrastructure bill.


I don't like Biden, as you know. I think he's a corrupt corporate Dem, ala Bill and Hillary. I don't think he'll move the football for most Americans. Just like Trump.

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

[MDlaxfan76]

Trying to equate Biden's press staff issues vs. Trump's is about the saddest thing ever. Like comparing apples to, well, I guess the best comparison is what comes out after you eat an apple.

Like, were you not there the first two days of Trump's presidency when the most insane press conference ever during a presidency occurred (which was quickly surpassed in the following days). It's like bizarro-land around here. Revisionist history, ain't it great lads.

Hey TLD....curious, who was equating?

Not sure what you mean here. You need to restructure your inquiry…..I will answer although you frequently decline to answer direct questions.

I answer and engage regularly....just depends on how far down the rabbit hole I feel like following you.

Was TLD even in this discussion today or did you mean NattyBoh?

[tech37]

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

You know, the ones who who were criticizing everything the Trump PR crew was doing?

False equivalency is still false.

There's a world of difference between Psaki and Spicer et al.
There is a difference all right...Psaki happens to be a more competent liar than the Trump people. GMAFB.

GMAFB

[CU88]

Day 1

C-SPAN

White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany: "I will never lie to you. You have my word on that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zoiTTvDjGg

[a fan]

I agree that the Trump tax cuts were wrong, but I'd like to keep the reforms that cause more taxes to be paid to land on the super wealthy and manipulators, the large corporations, and not on the bulk of successful people, business owners, and their families. I'm all for making the indexed, child tax credit permanent, agree that'll help lift many families out of poverty.

They need to change that index....my wife and I get a check, and it goes straight to charity. Theres NO WAY anyone earning what we earn should get this money.

I'm intrigued by many of the social net ideas in the reconciliation effort, and indeed it would be transformative, but I guess I'd like to be sure they're really well thought through...it's hugely expensive...on the other hand, I understand the unleash women's productivity argument. That wasn't on your list...but I do think that if he gets at least some of that done, and it works, that'll accrue to the good of our country.

I had lost track of this bill, and have NO CLUE what's in it just now.

But the infrastructure bill as I first read it has things like money for Forest Management----controlled burns and preventative maintenance, instead of blowing the entire budget on putting out fire. Been asking for an infrastructure bills since Bush. If Biden passes this bill? He becomes a better POTUS than any other in the 21st century....at least for me.

But I'd add to your list the election reform stuff. What's going on right now is so entirely anti-democratic, with SCOTUS complicity or at least frozen, that I think it's close to existential for our system for Biden and Congress to get it done.

That stuff will backfire on the R's at some point. We'll see.

I don't put Biden in the same "corrupt" box as the Clintons. That's quite a box. Directionally, sure.

Well, the Clintons are worse---so far, anyway. Give Biden time. He knows EVERYONE. And things like Biden "forgetting" to get drug prices under control when he's best buds with the Pfizer CEO is what I mean by corruption.

[a fan]

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

Agreed. It's the one thing that a President can't blame "someone else" for....he's the head of our military. Buck stops here.

[MDlaxfan76]

Todd, you realize I'm not blasting Psaki, right? I'm pointing out the same hypocrisy that you are.

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

Haven't had a chance yet! I just got back.

But there's a big difference between, for example, boilerplate WH spokesman buffalo bagels we've seen since TV was invented (things are going great in Vietnam, we promise)....and shutting down all questions completely for an entire year. I'm on MD's side on this count. Come on.....being MIA for a year?

I'm just getting warmed up on Biden. He hasn't done anything yet, really.

Everyone here pointed out that BIden F'ed up on Afghanistan. So the Forum's Trump-haters are already doing just fine in terms of equal criticisms.

What they didn't do, and rightly so, place ALL of the blame for the Afghan collapse on Biden. Because that's absurd...Biden's hasn't even been around for a full baseball season yet, let alone for 20 years.


But Biden is on the clock, and the clock runs out for many of these items in a few months. On my short list:

-he has to repeal (or try, he can't do it alone) the Trump Tax cuts
-he has to end the tariffs. That's China and the UK/EU. It's now Biden's tariffs until he changes them.
-he has to do SOMETHING to help the bottom 80% voters---the Trump "forgotten voter." An example would be the child tax checks that are going out. If he makes that permanent? He's made a big, big, big difference in the lives of the bottom earners in America.
-he has to pass the infrastructure bill.


I don't like Biden, as you know. I think he's a corrupt corporate Dem, ala Bill and Hillary. I don't think he'll move the football for most Americans. Just like Trump.

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

I'm fine with your argument, though I don't think you know any more than I do what advice and planning they had done, where the errors were made, what alternatives were actually considered and what their pluses and minuses were, etc. Fine with 'buck stops here' but not fine with the assumption that you or I actually know better, for sure.

I do think you, for some reason, are blind to the fact that Biden actually slowed down the withdrawal from the Trump timetable, enabling more planning and preparation. The reality is that the Trump timetable (and we now know he signed an order for an immediate, precipitous, unplanned withdrawal last winter) would very likely have been worse, especially given Trump's impatience. We also know that his Admin was actively stalling Afghan exit visas, so there's little basis to think the Trump Admin would have had nearly as much concern for our Afghan allies, much less those who were going to be under the Taliban's control, women's rights etc.

Yes, we were going to leave whether under the Trump or the Biden Admin. Neither was going to reverse course. The only question was implementation process.

I think we can critique the Biden Admin, but the context can't be avoided.

[tech37]

Day 1

C-SPAN

White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany: "I will never lie to you. You have my word on that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zoiTTvDjGg

Well...that's my point isn't it? They all lie, Psaki is just better at it.

[Farfromgeneva]

Trying to equate Biden's press staff issues vs. Trump's is about the saddest thing ever. Like comparing apples to, well, I guess the best comparison is what comes out after you eat an apple.

Like, were you not there the first two days of Trump's presidency when the most insane press conference ever during a presidency occurred (which was quickly surpassed in the following days). It's like bizarro-land around here. Revisionist history, ain't it great lads.

Hey TLD....curious, who was equating?

Not sure what you mean here. You need to restructure your inquiry…..I will answer although you frequently decline to answer direct questions.

I answer and engage regularly....just depends on how far down the rabbit hole I feel like following you.

Follow mine and eventually you'll end up in a Larry Flynt wet dream...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Trying to equate Biden's press staff issues vs. Trump's is about the saddest thing ever. Like comparing apples to, well, I guess the best comparison is what comes out after you eat an apple.

Like, were you not there the first two days of Trump's presidency when the most insane press conference ever during a presidency occurred (which was quickly surpassed in the following days). It's like bizarro-land around here. Revisionist history, ain't it great lads.

Hey TLD....curious, who was equating?

Not sure what you mean here. You need to restructure your inquiry…..I will answer although you frequently decline to answer direct questions.

I answer and engage regularly....just depends on how far down the rabbit hole I feel like following you.

Sad. Just say “sometimes I just don’t want to answer”. Probably closer to the truth.

[MDlaxfan76]

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

You know, the ones who who were criticizing everything the Trump PR crew was doing?

False equivalency is still false.

There's a world of difference between Psaki and Spicer et al.
There is a difference all right...Psaki happens to be a more competent liar than the Trump people. GMAFB.

GMAFB

Ahhh, you mean she tells the truth but not the "whole truth" at every moment?

You gotta give us some actual examples of when she's "competent" in an actual lie.

Easy with these other folks...they lied egregiously again and again and again...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Day 1

C-SPAN

White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany: "I will never lie to you. You have my word on that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zoiTTvDjGg

Well...that's my point isn't it? They all lie, Psaki is just better at it.

Trump only hired the best people.

[cradleandshoot]

Todd, you realize I'm not blasting Psaki, right? I'm pointing out the same hypocrisy that you are.

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

Haven't had a chance yet! I just got back.

But there's a big difference between, for example, boilerplate WH spokesman buffalo bagels we've seen since TV was invented (things are going great in Vietnam, we promise)....and shutting down all questions completely for an entire year. I'm on MD's side on this count. Come on.....being MIA for a year?

I'm just getting warmed up on Biden. He hasn't done anything yet, really.

Everyone here pointed out that BIden F'ed up on Afghanistan. So the Forum's Trump-haters are already doing just fine in terms of equal criticisms.

What they didn't do, and rightly so, place ALL of the blame for the Afghan collapse on Biden. Because that's absurd...Biden's hasn't even been around for a full baseball season yet, let alone for 20 years.


But Biden is on the clock, and the clock runs out for many of these items in a few months. On my short list:

-he has to repeal (or try, he can't do it alone) the Trump Tax cuts
-he has to end the tariffs. That's China and the UK/EU. It's now Biden's tariffs until he changes them.
-he has to do SOMETHING to help the bottom 80% voters---the Trump "forgotten voter." An example would be the child tax checks that are going out. If he makes that permanent? He's made a big, big, big difference in the lives of the bottom earners in America.
-he has to pass the infrastructure bill.


I don't like Biden, as you know. I think he's a corrupt corporate Dem, ala Bill and Hillary. I don't think he'll move the football for most Americans. Just like Trump.

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

I'm fine with your argument, though I don't think you know any more than I do what advice and planning they had done, where the errors were made, what alternatives were actually considered and what their pluses and minuses were, etc. Fine with 'buck stops here' but not fine with the assumption that you or I actually know better, for sure.

I do think you, for some reason, are blind to the fact that Biden actually slowed down the withdrawal from the Trump timetable, enabling more planning and preparation. The reality is that the Trump timetable (and we now know he signed an order for an immediate, precipitous, unplanned withdrawal last winter) would very likely have been worse, especially given Trump's impatience. We also know that his Admin was actively stalling Afghan exit visas, so there's little basis to think the Trump Admin would have had nearly as much concern for our Afghan allies, much less those who were going to be under the Taliban's control, women's rights etc.

Yes, we were going to leave whether under the Trump or the Biden Admin. Neither was going to reverse course. The only question was implementation process.

I think we can critique the Biden Admin, but the context can't be avoided.

On 1/21/2021 the implementation of our exit from Afghanistan became the responsibility of POTUS Biden. I have no idea what Biden did or did not so to arrange an orderly exit from Afghanistan. I have said this ad nauseum and will continue to do so. Biden made the horrific decision to abandon Bagram Airfield. This abysmal failure can not be emphasized enough. That tactical failure that Joe did not understand the importance of Bagram Airfield and keeping it under control of our people for as long as possible will go down as the single worst blunder of any POTUS in decades. If Joe blew off the advice of his best and brightest advisors...time will tell. I'm not a military expert. I knew the minute this foul up at Bagram happened that the US was in a world of chit. If a spec. 4 US Army understood it, Joe Biden sure as hell should have understood it as well. What the dumb f**k politicians understood was a date on a calender and they did not want to tick off the Taliban.. Copy That Lima Charlie.

[tech37]

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

You know, the ones who who were criticizing everything the Trump PR crew was doing?

False equivalency is still false.

There's a world of difference between Psaki and Spicer et al.
There is a difference all right...Psaki happens to be a more competent liar than the Trump people. GMAFB.

GMAFB

Ahhh, you mean she tells the truth but not the "whole truth" at every moment?

You gotta give us some actual examples of when she's "competent" in an actual lie.

Easy with these other folks...they lied egregiously again and again and again...

You'll give me some BS reply but oh WTH...

So, evasion, distortion, and obfuscation aren't forms of lying?

Note to self... this should be good.

[MDlaxfan76]

Todd, you realize I'm not blasting Psaki, right? I'm pointing out the same hypocrisy that you are.

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

Haven't had a chance yet! I just got back.

But there's a big difference between, for example, boilerplate WH spokesman buffalo bagels we've seen since TV was invented (things are going great in Vietnam, we promise)....and shutting down all questions completely for an entire year. I'm on MD's side on this count. Come on.....being MIA for a year?

I'm just getting warmed up on Biden. He hasn't done anything yet, really.

Everyone here pointed out that BIden F'ed up on Afghanistan. So the Forum's Trump-haters are already doing just fine in terms of equal criticisms.

What they didn't do, and rightly so, place ALL of the blame for the Afghan collapse on Biden. Because that's absurd...Biden's hasn't even been around for a full baseball season yet, let alone for 20 years.


But Biden is on the clock, and the clock runs out for many of these items in a few months. On my short list:

-he has to repeal (or try, he can't do it alone) the Trump Tax cuts
-he has to end the tariffs. That's China and the UK/EU. It's now Biden's tariffs until he changes them.
-he has to do SOMETHING to help the bottom 80% voters---the Trump "forgotten voter." An example would be the child tax checks that are going out. If he makes that permanent? He's made a big, big, big difference in the lives of the bottom earners in America.
-he has to pass the infrastructure bill.


I don't like Biden, as you know. I think he's a corrupt corporate Dem, ala Bill and Hillary. I don't think he'll move the football for most Americans. Just like Trump.

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

I'm fine with your argument, though I don't think you know any more than I do what advice and planning they had done, where the errors were made, what alternatives were actually considered and what their pluses and minuses were, etc. Fine with 'buck stops here' but not fine with the assumption that you or I actually know better, for sure.

I do think you, for some reason, are blind to the fact that Biden actually slowed down the withdrawal from the Trump timetable, enabling more planning and preparation. The reality is that the Trump timetable (and we now know he signed an order for an immediate, precipitous, unplanned withdrawal last winter) would very likely have been worse, especially given Trump's impatience. We also know that his Admin was actively stalling Afghan exit visas, so there's little basis to think the Trump Admin would have had nearly as much concern for our Afghan allies, much less those who were going to be under the Taliban's control, women's rights etc.

Yes, we were going to leave whether under the Trump or the Biden Admin. Neither was going to reverse course. The only question was implementation process.

I think we can critique the Biden Admin, but the context can't be avoided.

On 1/21/2021 the implementation of our exit from Afghanistan became the responsibility of POTUS Biden. I have no idea what Biden did or did not so to arrange an orderly exit from Afghanistan. I have said this ad nauseum and will continue to do so. Biden made the horrific decision to abandon Bagram Airfield. This abysmal failure can not be emphasized enough. That tactical failure that Joe did not understand the importance of Bagram Airfield and keeping it under control of our people for as long as possible will go down as the single worst blunder of any POTUS in decades. If Joe blew off the advice of his best and brightest advisors...time will tell. I'm not a military expert. I knew the minute this foul up at Bagram happened that the US was in a world of chit. If a spec. 4 US Army understood it, Joe Biden sure as hell should have understood it as well. What the dumb f**k politicians understood was a date on a calender and they did not want to tick off the Taliban.. Copy That Lima Charlie.

Again, you're making all sorts of assumptions about the considerations about Bagram that you really don't know. My gut says the same thing as yours about the importance of that particular decision, but I too really have no idea about why they made that tactical decision. I don't think they're dumb, nor do I think it's likely that Biden overruled the military folks on this specific aspect of the tactical withdrawal, if they strongly disagreed. And it was undoubtedly discussed and considered, pros and cons.

Unlike the former POTUS, I very much doubt that Biden actually considers himself smarter than the generals, nor a military expert. However, on the priority of where to apply our financial and strategic and manpower resources over the next years, that's what he was elected to do. And he was clear in his campaign that it wouldn't be in Afghanistan. So, I doubt that he'd have overruled the generals on the tactical decisions, though he'd have been called upon to assent to them. Timetable another matter.

In both, as POTUS, he nevertheless "owns" the outcomes...again in contrast to the former POTUS, but consistent with most Presidents, Biden doesn't shirk from that ownership. All of those other Presidents, who similarly didn't shirk responsibility, ask, however, to have their decisions and "mistakes" judged both in real time and by history in the context in which the decisions were reached. Fair.

[MDlaxfan76]

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

You know, the ones who who were criticizing everything the Trump PR crew was doing?

False equivalency is still false.

There's a world of difference between Psaki and Spicer et al.
There is a difference all right...Psaki happens to be a more competent liar than the Trump people. GMAFB.

GMAFB

Ahhh, you mean she tells the truth but not the "whole truth" at every moment?

You gotta give us some actual examples of when she's "competent" in an actual lie.

Easy with these other folks...they lied egregiously again and again and again...

You'll give me some BS reply but oh WTH...

So, evasion, distortion, and obfuscation aren't forms of lying?

Note to self... this should be good.

You gotta give us some specific examples of such that were provably lying.

It's easy with these other cats.

But no, "evasion" is not lying. It's refusing to lie.
Is it immediately disclosing the truth? Absolutely not. But it's not a form of lying.

"distortion" might well be a lie if it purposely gives a false impression. But is it false? is the question or is it simply perspective? Show us some examples and why they're actual lies.

"obfuscation" exactly the same as above...could be, might not be...show us some specific examples and why they were actually false. And knowably so to the press secretary.

Again, we had rampant, outright lying from the press secretaries during the prior Admin. A barrage of such. And long periods from them of not even taking questions at all, the bloody job. It's simply not a close call.

Admit that and we can then fairly parse whether Psaki has actually lied as yet in her communications job.

[cradleandshoot]

Todd, you realize I'm not blasting Psaki, right? I'm pointing out the same hypocrisy that you are.

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

Haven't had a chance yet! I just got back.

But there's a big difference between, for example, boilerplate WH spokesman buffalo bagels we've seen since TV was invented (things are going great in Vietnam, we promise)....and shutting down all questions completely for an entire year. I'm on MD's side on this count. Come on.....being MIA for a year?

I'm just getting warmed up on Biden. He hasn't done anything yet, really.

Everyone here pointed out that BIden F'ed up on Afghanistan. So the Forum's Trump-haters are already doing just fine in terms of equal criticisms.

What they didn't do, and rightly so, place ALL of the blame for the Afghan collapse on Biden. Because that's absurd...Biden's hasn't even been around for a full baseball season yet, let alone for 20 years.


But Biden is on the clock, and the clock runs out for many of these items in a few months. On my short list:

-he has to repeal (or try, he can't do it alone) the Trump Tax cuts
-he has to end the tariffs. That's China and the UK/EU. It's now Biden's tariffs until he changes them.
-he has to do SOMETHING to help the bottom 80% voters---the Trump "forgotten voter." An example would be the child tax checks that are going out. If he makes that permanent? He's made a big, big, big difference in the lives of the bottom earners in America.
-he has to pass the infrastructure bill.


I don't like Biden, as you know. I think he's a corrupt corporate Dem, ala Bill and Hillary. I don't think he'll move the football for most Americans. Just like Trump.

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

I'm fine with your argument, though I don't think you know any more than I do what advice and planning they had done, where the errors were made, what alternatives were actually considered and what their pluses and minuses were, etc. Fine with 'buck stops here' but not fine with the assumption that you or I actually know better, for sure.

I do think you, for some reason, are blind to the fact that Biden actually slowed down the withdrawal from the Trump timetable, enabling more planning and preparation. The reality is that the Trump timetable (and we now know he signed an order for an immediate, precipitous, unplanned withdrawal last winter) would very likely have been worse, especially given Trump's impatience. We also know that his Admin was actively stalling Afghan exit visas, so there's little basis to think the Trump Admin would have had nearly as much concern for our Afghan allies, much less those who were going to be under the Taliban's control, women's rights etc.

Yes, we were going to leave whether under the Trump or the Biden Admin. Neither was going to reverse course. The only question was implementation process.

I think we can critique the Biden Admin, but the context can't be avoided.

On 1/21/2021 the implementation of our exit from Afghanistan became the responsibility of POTUS Biden. I have no idea what Biden did or did not so to arrange an orderly exit from Afghanistan. I have said this ad nauseum and will continue to do so. Biden made the horrific decision to abandon Bagram Airfield. This abysmal failure can not be emphasized enough. That tactical failure that Joe did not understand the importance of Bagram Airfield and keeping it under control of our people for as long as possible will go down as the single worst blunder of any POTUS in decades. If Joe blew off the advice of his best and brightest advisors...time will tell. I'm not a military expert. I knew the minute this foul up at Bagram happened that the US was in a world of chit. If a spec. 4 US Army understood it, Joe Biden sure as hell should have understood it as well. What the dumb f**k politicians understood was a date on a calender and they did not want to tick off the Taliban.. Copy That Lima Charlie.

Again, you're making all sorts of assumptions about the considerations about Bagram that you really don't know. My gut says the same thing as yours about the importance of that particular decision, but I too really have no idea about why they made that tactical decision. I don't think they're dumb, nor do I think it's likely that Biden overruled the military folks on this specific aspect of the tactical withdrawal, if they strongly disagreed. And it was undoubtedly discussed and considered, pros and cons.

Unlike the former POTUS, I very much doubt that Biden actually considers himself smarter than the generals, nor a military expert. However, on the priority of where to apply our financial and strategic and manpower resources over the next years, that's what he was elected to do. And he was clear in his campaign that it wouldn't be in Afghanistan. So, I doubt that he'd have overruled the generals on the tactical decisions, though he'd have been called upon to assent to them. Timetable another matter.

In both, as POTUS, he nevertheless "owns" the outcomes...again in contrast to the former POTUS, but consistent with most Presidents, Biden doesn't shirk from that ownership. All of those other Presidents, who similarly didn't shirk responsibility, ask, however, to have their decisions and "mistakes" judged both in real time and by history in the context in which the decisions were reached. Fair.

I'm making the same assumptions I had when I woke up and read on the news our folks had simply left Bagram in the middle of the night like a fart in the wind my immediate gut instinct told me was dumb. A simple analogy was that without Bagram our people were forced to put all of their eggs in one basket. That basket was called KH airport in Kabul. How did that work out for us. You can down play it all day long. The minute Biden abandoned our next best option to get our people our of Afghanistan he made a miscalculation of monumental proportions. You find me any military person trained in this type of situation that thinks abandoning Bagram in the middle of this cluster fudge was a good idea.. please share that information I would love to read it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Todd, you realize I'm not blasting Psaki, right? I'm pointing out the same hypocrisy that you are.

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

Haven't had a chance yet! I just got back.

But there's a big difference between, for example, boilerplate WH spokesman buffalo bagels we've seen since TV was invented (things are going great in Vietnam, we promise)....and shutting down all questions completely for an entire year. I'm on MD's side on this count. Come on.....being MIA for a year?

I'm just getting warmed up on Biden. He hasn't done anything yet, really.

Everyone here pointed out that BIden F'ed up on Afghanistan. So the Forum's Trump-haters are already doing just fine in terms of equal criticisms.

What they didn't do, and rightly so, place ALL of the blame for the Afghan collapse on Biden. Because that's absurd...Biden's hasn't even been around for a full baseball season yet, let alone for 20 years.


But Biden is on the clock, and the clock runs out for many of these items in a few months. On my short list:

-he has to repeal (or try, he can't do it alone) the Trump Tax cuts
-he has to end the tariffs. That's China and the UK/EU. It's now Biden's tariffs until he changes them.
-he has to do SOMETHING to help the bottom 80% voters---the Trump "forgotten voter." An example would be the child tax checks that are going out. If he makes that permanent? He's made a big, big, big difference in the lives of the bottom earners in America.
-he has to pass the infrastructure bill.


I don't like Biden, as you know. I think he's a corrupt corporate Dem, ala Bill and Hillary. I don't think he'll move the football for most Americans. Just like Trump.

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

I'm fine with your argument, though I don't think you know any more than I do what advice and planning they had done, where the errors were made, what alternatives were actually considered and what their pluses and minuses were, etc. Fine with 'buck stops here' but not fine with the assumption that you or I actually know better, for sure.

I do think you, for some reason, are blind to the fact that Biden actually slowed down the withdrawal from the Trump timetable, enabling more planning and preparation. The reality is that the Trump timetable (and we now know he signed an order for an immediate, precipitous, unplanned withdrawal last winter) would very likely have been worse, especially given Trump's impatience. We also know that his Admin was actively stalling Afghan exit visas, so there's little basis to think the Trump Admin would have had nearly as much concern for our Afghan allies, much less those who were going to be under the Taliban's control, women's rights etc.

Yes, we were going to leave whether under the Trump or the Biden Admin. Neither was going to reverse course. The only question was implementation process.

I think we can critique the Biden Admin, but the context can't be avoided.

On 1/21/2021 the implementation of our exit from Afghanistan became the responsibility of POTUS Biden. I have no idea what Biden did or did not so to arrange an orderly exit from Afghanistan. I have said this ad nauseum and will continue to do so. Biden made the horrific decision to abandon Bagram Airfield. This abysmal failure can not be emphasized enough. That tactical failure that Joe did not understand the importance of Bagram Airfield and keeping it under control of our people for as long as possible will go down as the single worst blunder of any POTUS in decades. If Joe blew off the advice of his best and brightest advisors...time will tell. I'm not a military expert. I knew the minute this foul up at Bagram happened that the US was in a world of chit. If a spec. 4 US Army understood it, Joe Biden sure as hell should have understood it as well. What the dumb f**k politicians understood was a date on a calender and they did not want to tick off the Taliban.. Copy That Lima Charlie.

Again, you're making all sorts of assumptions about the considerations about Bagram that you really don't know. My gut says the same thing as yours about the importance of that particular decision, but I too really have no idea about why they made that tactical decision. I don't think they're dumb, nor do I think it's likely that Biden overruled the military folks on this specific aspect of the tactical withdrawal, if they strongly disagreed. And it was undoubtedly discussed and considered, pros and cons.

Unlike the former POTUS, I very much doubt that Biden actually considers himself smarter than the generals, nor a military expert. However, on the priority of where to apply our financial and strategic and manpower resources over the next years, that's what he was elected to do. And he was clear in his campaign that it wouldn't be in Afghanistan. So, I doubt that he'd have overruled the generals on the tactical decisions, though he'd have been called upon to assent to them. Timetable another matter.

In both, as POTUS, he nevertheless "owns" the outcomes...again in contrast to the former POTUS, but consistent with most Presidents, Biden doesn't shirk from that ownership. All of those other Presidents, who similarly didn't shirk responsibility, ask, however, to have their decisions and "mistakes" judged both in real time and by history in the context in which the decisions were reached. Fair.

I'm making the same assumptions I had when I woke up and read on the news our folks had simply left Bagram in the middle of the night like a fart in the wind my immediate gut instinct told me was dumb. A simple analogy was that without Bagram our people were forced to put all of their eggs in one basket. That basket was called KH airport in Kabul. How did that work out for us. You can down play it all day long. The minute Biden abandoned our next best option to get our people our of Afghanistan he made a miscalculation of monumental proportions. You find me any military person trained in this type of situation that thinks abandoning Bagram in the middle of this cluster fudge was a good idea.. please share that information I would love to read it.

Getting out worked fine.

[MDlaxfan76]

Todd, you realize I'm not blasting Psaki, right? I'm pointing out the same hypocrisy that you are.

Please use the same search function to find and blast all the hypocritical Psaki apologists...

Haven't had a chance yet! I just got back.

But there's a big difference between, for example, boilerplate WH spokesman buffalo bagels we've seen since TV was invented (things are going great in Vietnam, we promise)....and shutting down all questions completely for an entire year. I'm on MD's side on this count. Come on.....being MIA for a year?

I'm just getting warmed up on Biden. He hasn't done anything yet, really.

Everyone here pointed out that BIden F'ed up on Afghanistan. So the Forum's Trump-haters are already doing just fine in terms of equal criticisms.

What they didn't do, and rightly so, place ALL of the blame for the Afghan collapse on Biden. Because that's absurd...Biden's hasn't even been around for a full baseball season yet, let alone for 20 years.


But Biden is on the clock, and the clock runs out for many of these items in a few months. On my short list:

-he has to repeal (or try, he can't do it alone) the Trump Tax cuts
-he has to end the tariffs. That's China and the UK/EU. It's now Biden's tariffs until he changes them.
-he has to do SOMETHING to help the bottom 80% voters---the Trump "forgotten voter." An example would be the child tax checks that are going out. If he makes that permanent? He's made a big, big, big difference in the lives of the bottom earners in America.
-he has to pass the infrastructure bill.


I don't like Biden, as you know. I think he's a corrupt corporate Dem, ala Bill and Hillary. I don't think he'll move the football for most Americans. Just like Trump.

Where Biden takes the blame on our withdrawal is really simple. He has already to a great extent acknowledged that the buck stops on his desk. I doubt very much that any of his advisors agreed with Joe's "bug out" plan. We all understand why Joe was so adamant about getting out ASAP. That being said doing so has to be done incrementally. I was stunned beyond belief when Joe decided to abandon Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night. It sent 2 very clear messages. It told the Afghan Army they were on their own. It told the Taliban they could do whatever they wanted. That was the genesis of this collasal screw up on Bidens part. His own people tried to dissuade him from doing it. He ignored his own people and used his own judgement. When called out the failure was blamed on what they inherited from Trump. Bullchit.. after 1/21/2021 Biden was free to make any new deal with the Thallybhaaan he wanted to. Biden chose to go with his own instincts.. bad move on Joes part.

I'm fine with your argument, though I don't think you know any more than I do what advice and planning they had done, where the errors were made, what alternatives were actually considered and what their pluses and minuses were, etc. Fine with 'buck stops here' but not fine with the assumption that you or I actually know better, for sure.

I do think you, for some reason, are blind to the fact that Biden actually slowed down the withdrawal from the Trump timetable, enabling more planning and preparation. The reality is that the Trump timetable (and we now know he signed an order for an immediate, precipitous, unplanned withdrawal last winter) would very likely have been worse, especially given Trump's impatience. We also know that his Admin was actively stalling Afghan exit visas, so there's little basis to think the Trump Admin would have had nearly as much concern for our Afghan allies, much less those who were going to be under the Taliban's control, women's rights etc.

Yes, we were going to leave whether under the Trump or the Biden Admin. Neither was going to reverse course. The only question was implementation process.

I think we can critique the Biden Admin, but the context can't be avoided.

On 1/21/2021 the implementation of our exit from Afghanistan became the responsibility of POTUS Biden. I have no idea what Biden did or did not so to arrange an orderly exit from Afghanistan. I have said this ad nauseum and will continue to do so. Biden made the horrific decision to abandon Bagram Airfield. This abysmal failure can not be emphasized enough. That tactical failure that Joe did not understand the importance of Bagram Airfield and keeping it under control of our people for as long as possible will go down as the single worst blunder of any POTUS in decades. If Joe blew off the advice of his best and brightest advisors...time will tell. I'm not a military expert. I knew the minute this foul up at Bagram happened that the US was in a world of chit. If a spec. 4 US Army understood it, Joe Biden sure as hell should have understood it as well. What the dumb f**k politicians understood was a date on a calender and they did not want to tick off the Taliban.. Copy That Lima Charlie.

Again, you're making all sorts of assumptions about the considerations about Bagram that you really don't know. My gut says the same thing as yours about the importance of that particular decision, but I too really have no idea about why they made that tactical decision. I don't think they're dumb, nor do I think it's likely that Biden overruled the military folks on this specific aspect of the tactical withdrawal, if they strongly disagreed. And it was undoubtedly discussed and considered, pros and cons.

Unlike the former POTUS, I very much doubt that Biden actually considers himself smarter than the generals, nor a military expert. However, on the priority of where to apply our financial and strategic and manpower resources over the next years, that's what he was elected to do. And he was clear in his campaign that it wouldn't be in Afghanistan. So, I doubt that he'd have overruled the generals on the tactical decisions, though he'd have been called upon to assent to them. Timetable another matter.

In both, as POTUS, he nevertheless "owns" the outcomes...again in contrast to the former POTUS, but consistent with most Presidents, Biden doesn't shirk from that ownership. All of those other Presidents, who similarly didn't shirk responsibility, ask, however, to have their decisions and "mistakes" judged both in real time and by history in the context in which the decisions were reached. Fair.

I'm making the same assumptions I had when I woke up and read on the news our folks had simply left Bagram in the middle of the night like a fart in the wind my immediate gut instinct told me was dumb. A simple analogy was that without Bagram our people were forced to put all of their eggs in one basket. That basket was called KH airport in Kabul. How did that work out for us. You can down play it all day long. The minute Biden abandoned our next best option to get our people our of Afghanistan he made a miscalculation of monumental proportions. You find me any military person trained in this type of situation that thinks abandoning Bagram in the middle of this cluster fudge was a good idea.. please share that information I would love to read it.

Yup, I certainly had the same gut reaction.
But I don't know what they considered and how they reached the conclusions they did.

The little bit that I've read about it was that they were very concerned about trying to move people from Kabul to Bagram safely. That it would have been an extremely difficult and dangerous thing to to try do...sitting ducks along the way. Whether Americans, other western allies, or Afghans.

On "how did that work for us", there was a massive airlift of people from Kabul, a scale unparalleled in history.
While there were casualties, I'd be willing to bet that the casualty estimates of a Bagram exit would have been far higher.

The counter argument has been that retaining forces, longer, and in higher capacities longer, might have prevented the Taliban from overtaking Kabul prior to our departure...maybe. Or maybe the process would have been far more violent and bloody. Maybe.

But those are the sorts of considerations and tradeoffs they were undoubtedly considering, not simply in the original planning but as the situation on the ground"evolved" rapidly.

They've been pretty forthright that their intelligence didn't have the Afghan forces laying down their arms wholesale without any fight. And that began before Bagram exit if I'm not mistaken, not because of it. Taliban had already cut those deals with military commanders.

That was always the problem with a date certain, 100% exit.
And they had a good long lead time to be prepared to move swiftly as we withdrew.

[youthathletics]

Trying to equate Biden's press staff issues vs. Trump's is about the saddest thing ever. Like comparing apples to, well, I guess the best comparison is what comes out after you eat an apple.

Like, were you not there the first two days of Trump's presidency when the most insane press conference ever during a presidency occurred (which was quickly surpassed in the following days). It's like bizarro-land around here. Revisionist history, ain't it great lads.

Hey TLD....curious, who was equating?

Not sure what you mean here. You need to restructure your inquiry…..I will answer although you frequently decline to answer direct questions.

I answer and engage regularly....just depends on how far down the rabbit hole I feel like following you.

Was TLD even in this discussion today or did you mean NattyBoh?

You tell me...are they same person?