Ivy League 2021

[RumorMill]

That might also mean saying to faculty: "Dartmouth sports is part of who we are -- it matters to our alums and to students who may be drawn here by hockey or lacrosse or football or field hockey, but have their worlds enlarged by what YOU teach them. We'll work to cut the percentage of recruited athletes down somewhat, and we'll always encourage our coaches to emphasize the 'student' in 'student-athlete' but we don't and won't apologize for holding on to the ideal that Division I athletic competition is consistent with the culture of excellence we embrace in every facet of campus life.'"

Well stated Orfling. And it's not just the student athletes that "take" one of the allotted spots as some refer to, what's the total percentage of the student body that participate in some type of competitive activity (beer pong excluded)?

https://recreation.dartmouth.edu/club-s ... -directory

I'm sure this can be said for many of the other Ivy's as well. Not to mention a lot of the intercollegiate athletes in the Ivy League may be more committed as they may have forgone scholarships to other institutions in order to be a member of the student body and compete for their current school or alma mater.

[Laxman23]

I graduated from Harvard a long time ago, and no, I was not a Varsity athlete. I know that the school had a tremendous effort to get the students involved in extracurricular activities. I heard something like 90% of alumni donations comes from 10% of the most active undergraduates irrespective of their means. I noticed that those most connected to the schools seem to me to be the former teammates of sports teams and not the former lab partner or library colleagues. It is in the administration’s best interest to foster these deep connections.
A good friend of mine was trying to get his well qualified son into Dartmouth and he complained of the advantages some athletes were given in the admission lottery. I talked about the connections element and he scoffed stating how unfair any athletic advantage was. I stated i am sure that top flight musicians, actors, artists etc have a similar “hook” and I can survive without really appreciating the performing arts.
Later he admitted that his connection to Dartmouth is through the sailing club (or team?)in which he participated and met his wife. He meekly admitted that he sends a hundred or two to the general campaign but when the sailing team needed a new hull he gladly wrote a check for many thousands more than he ever did or would contribute to the general college fund.
These connections to the school beyond academics are very important. If the IVY league denies a second year to their spring athletes it will be a true shame. As far as admissions perhaps the schools should increase enrollment a bit and perhaps trim a few spots from the football or lax squad. But to deny the importance of these teams to the benefit of the school I believe is incorrect.

[DCIII]

"Dartmouth sports is part of who we are -- it matters to our alums and to students who may be drawn here by hockey or lacrosse or football or field hockey, but have their worlds enlarged by what YOU teach them. We'll work to cut the percentage of recruited athletes down somewhat, and we'll always encourage our coaches to emphasize the 'student' in 'student-athlete' but we don't and won't apologize for holding on to the ideal that Division I athletic competition is consistent with the culture of excellence we embrace in every facet of campus life.'"

So well put and agreed by many.

The fact is that the entire Dartmouth Athletic Budget, at least the portion that isn't already privately funded through the Friends programs, could be endowed tomorrow. If we can raise $25mm for an indoor practice facility and $3b for general purposes we could raise the $ to take these programs off the College's plate - forever! Filling the Covid budget drain is not a valid excuse.

It is also a fact that many of these programs have average GPA's greater than the school's overall average. They are not a drain to the College's academic success. Quite the opposite. Diluting the College's academic quality is not an excuse.

The real issue is that Hanlon, the Faculty (not all) and the Administration do not share Orfling's or the Alumni's appreciation for Sports and most importantly believe that Sports (at least some...), and their dedicated admission spots are an impediment to their master plan to diversify the student body. They also are incredibly naive to think that if these "stinking sports" didn't exist, that $25mm (and gifts like it) would have been donated to financial aid instead of some "stupid" indoor practice facility.

Unfortunately, Hanlon and his real masters are stuck in a High School-ish paradigm where there are only Jocks and Nerds and no one can possibly excel in both. Oh the angst. How can those B and C students be so popular and successful?

[High Glass]

So well said. D3 Sheehy and President Hanlon only backed down when faced with a colossal loss in court. Only then, did they abandon their ill conceived plans. That same stubbornness is on full display now with their refusal to let spring sports play. As I watched Denver play Utah today, all I could do was shake my head that the self-proclaimed smartest guys in the room are not willing to do what is right and let the SAs play. They need to fire D3 Sheehy, Hanlon and Dean Lively while they are at it. Where is the Board while this leadership does its damage?

[wgdsr]

we are in a new age. things are always changing, but the servants that had insular masters previously (alums), for better or worse now serve others.

with the rise of media, brand and politics, expect it to accelerate. stanford didn't cut 11? sports because they needed money. they have new masters now.

with billions in the bank, the big green can lose a couple well-heeled alums and replace with an elite or 2.

expanding or having a few more slots is not at issue. optics is. expect what the consultants come back with may not be an upgrade from the 1st round.

[Heyward]

As far as admissions perhaps the schools should increase enrollment a bit and perhaps trim a few spots from the football or lax squad. But to deny the importance of these teams to the benefit of the school I believe is incorrect.

I do think people should realize that even if Dartmouth has 50 members of the men’s lacrosse team, it doesn’t give lacrosse 50 slots. When my son played there were only 30 some players on the team and usually 7 or 8 slots per year at best. Dartmouth does take walk-ons. Drew Tunney, a walk-on midway through his freshman year, led the team in scoring his senior year a few years back. The lacrosse team has always had a strong academic record. At most schools, it’s the hockey and football teams that are the most “advantaged” from an admissions perspective. Anecdotally, it seems that football also has the most people who quit the program yet stay in school of course. This issue of slots will always be discussed, but I will say that I have yet to meet in my somewhat limited experience a Dartmouth lacrosse player who didn’t love his/her time there - much more so than my kids or friends’ kids who went to other comparable schools. The kids on my son’s team have been extremely successful in life and career. I really don’t think Dartmouth was hurt by their presence on campus rather just the opposite. On the bigger issue, I am truly amazed at how poorly this has been understood and handled by Hanlon and Sheehy.

[MDlaxfan76]

Again, the team has NEVER had 50 players. Quite the opposite, Dartmouth typically has had among the smallest rosters in the Ivies, and way smaller than many D1 programs. A couple of years ago, the new head coach did a very controversial, large 'cut' of players he deemed insufficiently committed to the team and the culture he was working to build, independent of their potential to contribute on field that coming year...it was costly in all sorts of ways, but a dramatic statement about intent.

As to "slots" it has typically been 8-9 per year (compare that to some Big 10 and ACC programs of 12-16), however there's been the occasional year in which the program was provided some extra slots. It is also correct that the team has generally allowed 'walk-ons' and we'd expect that practice to continue...some are identified as solid potential prior to coming to campus, but needed no additional athletic slot support at all.

It's indeed important to note that the team has an excellent track record on graduation on time (as do most Ivies) and has done very well in academic achievement...indeed in the past few years that has improved markedly with the new coaching staff's emphasis. Proud of these efforts and achievements.

I was a critic of the prior staff's achievements in this area, the off-field "culture" which had created a negative impression with the Admin and Admissions during that period. However, even during that period of some turmoil, it would be true that there were many/most who were first-class people who built life-long friendships, those "connections" are real.

Those of us who are 'involved' in the program have been very pleased with the more recent progress in 'off-field culture' and predicted it would ultimately begin to bear additional fruit on-field. The brief 2020 season gave us a glimpse of that progress in W's, which we had seen beyond the scoreboard beginning earlier in improved play and the metrics. And, of course, this is also beginning to show up in recruiting, though there's still a significant gap with some of the other Ivies. But going in the right direction, hopefully acceleratingly so.

I think wgdsr's assessment is generally correct about the pressures many schools have been feeling with regard to the sports commitments, though I think this is a swing that we've seen before. And which I'd hope won't over swing and will move back to a more normal equilibrium soon...Like some other posters, I too am concerned that the "consultants" reports will be used to justify moves that I think would be deleterious to some of the aspects that make Dartmouth special. In a prior Dartmouth President's administration, I expressed concern that some appeared to think that the College should aspire to be more like the larger Ivy universities rather than emphasizing our uniqueness. I related my son's College tour in which the Admissions head talked about how Dartmouth was "as good as" HPY in various ways, nothing about what makes the Dartmouth experience special...a double Dartmouth legacy, my son chose another Ivy.

However, since that period, we've seen a very different emphasis and communication with the current Board and Administration...so, I'm choosing to be hopeful that the College will address this rather egregious error constructively and find a better path forward...including MORE support for attracting the very best student-athletes to the school, not less. I'm fine with raising the bar in all respects, but not through a deemphasis upon excellence in athletic competition in the mix of ways that Dartmouth students express their passions and discipline outside of the classroom.

Note, their are numerous such opportunities, non-athletic, for such expression of passions and discipline, all are to be applauded and supported. IMO, they are far more important than the classwork itself, as important as that is.

[DCIII]

I doubt Phil or the Ivy League Presidents Council is reading this forum but if they should - I want to try to be constructive.

Phil et al, we need to talk about BARBELLS and not the ones in Floren. You know the ones, ah never mind. In order to manage the AI, IVY coaches BARBELL their rosters. That is, they add B+/A- athletes but A students to the last 20+% of the roster. That is the secret sauce. This allows them to manage both the AI and the team GPA. And as mentioned above, in many cases these are regular academic admits/ walk ons.

In fact, I know of MANY cases where kids have been kept on rosters even after they have been injured (career ending ) or have chosen to retire, if they improve the AI/GPA. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the findings of the "audit".

If you want to reduce roster spots, maintain on field performance, and potentially increase diversity, please modify the AI system to allow these teams the flexibility to reduce to just the required size - to be defined separately. That's probably 30+ spots in Football and 5+ in Lacrosse alone.

To you Phil, specifically. Why don't we use Lacrosse to add diversity and live up to our heritage by recruiting in the Native American community? Why not let the Golf team partner with the Notah Begay Foundation to recruit Native American golfers?

Get off your butt and get to Floren...or simply try to be creative and figure out how to strike the balance.

[High Glass]

MDLaxfan, if you are involved in the program, please know the current players are disheartened and disillusioned, not with the coaching staff, but with the school. Phil and D3 Sheehy stubbornly refuse to listen to anyone outside their echo chamber — see last week’s events. They can play safely. Then can let more kids on campus. They can look to ND, BC, Hopkins, UNC for examples of how to get it done. Someone up there needs to go — and like they say, the fish rots from the head down.

[MDlaxfan76]

MDLaxfan, if you are involved in the program, please know the current players are disheartened and disillusioned, not with the coaching staff, but with the school. Phil and D3 Sheehy stubbornly refuse to listen to anyone outside their echo chamber — see last week’s events. They can play safely. Then can let more kids on campus. They can look to ND, BC, Hopkins, UNC for examples of how to get it done. Someone up there needs to go — and like they say, the fish rots from the head down.

My hunch is that Harry is on the way out, Hanlon bears serious responsibility but unlikely to be immediate repercussion on his head, though probably should be... Harry was told to deliver an answer (was it really necessary in the first place?), came up with the "wrong" one, and Hanlon was the boss who didn't address it as such...went with the flow. Probably protecting football...Board has serious egg on their face as well, having publicly said they would not reconsider the decision. Oops.

On lax season, My sense of the players is that they understand, if don't like, the reality of where the League is, through all the Presidents...and, indeed, are holding together as a team and coaches better than some of the other Ivies at this point...obviously, they're all eager to get at it. Without revealing the specific person, we have a dad who is quite plugged into the team and have a pretty good sense of where their heads are...pretty darn solid, despite the issue. Of course, there will be those who bit-h and moan more than others...but all are eager to play at least some ball...

However, they did have one player who tested positive on return to campus and that has them stalled a bit...chomping at the bit, though.

[Ox77]

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jou ... eague.aspx if you have access- I went through twitter and was able to read. text below...

Lauded for early decisions to cancel sports, Ivy League faces criticism for failing to return to play
By Michael Smith
February 1, 2021

A growing alliance of Ivy Leaguers, including several well-known sports business executives who want to see athletic competition resume at their alma maters, is applying pressure to stop the ongoing sports shutdown at the conference.
 
The Ivy League was lauded in March 2020 for being the first conference to cancel its basketball tournaments and all spring sports just as the coronavirus became a global pandemic. As other Division I conferences have figured out a path to compete safely in sports over the past 11 months, however, the Ivy League finds itself on an island as the only conference not playing.
What once were considered bold moves to cancel first spring sports and subsequently fall sports in 2020 now are simply misguided, say the Ivy’s critics, who are pushing for the eight schools to return to play this spring.
“Is the Ivy League right and everybody else is wrong?” said Bob Warden, an All-America placekicker for Brown’s football team in the 1990s.
Warden, now the global head of private equity and senior managing director at Cerberus Capital Management, has helped galvanize prominent Ivy Leaguers into a powerful voice in favor of returning to competition, along with his wife, Margaret Smith Walden, CAA Sports Co-Head Michael Levine and public relations specialist Matthew Hiltzik.
Brooklyn Nets owner Joe Tsai, Bruin Sports Capital founder and CEO George Pyne and John Slusher, Nike executive vice president of global sports marketing, are among those who have pledged to lobby university presidents as well.
Some critics have children who currently play a sport at Ivy League schools, while others are simply concerned about the conference doing long-term damage to its programs, especially in sports where they excel, such as lacrosse and ice hockey.
The Ivy League said in November that athletics would not return to competition until at least the end of February, making it the only Division I conference to remain closed. With the pandemic continuing to rage, many Ivy stakeholders believe the spring sports season is doomed, prompting some high-level athletes like Yale lacrosse’s TD Ierlan to say he will transfer if the Ivy sports ban isn’t lifted.
Ivy League spring sports didn’t compete last year either, with the exception of a few early-season contests in 2020, so a second straight lost season looms as an unfortunate likelihood unless university presidents do an about-face and return to play.

“As I looked into it, I found out what an outlier the Ivy League is,” Warden said. “We don’t see a good reason these athletes should be penalized when their activity can be played safely and in compliance with [health and safety] rules. … There are a lot of athletes who came back to their Ivy League school after missing last season thinking they would be able to play in 2021.”
Ivy League Executive Director Robin Harris, who speaks for conference presidents on athletic matters, said this is not the first time Ivy athletes, parents and alums have pushed back on the conference’s sports shutdown.
“We’ve heard from student athletes and parents who want to be able to compete,” Harris said. “We understand that they’re looking around and seeing other Division I conferences playing. We hear their frustrations. Frankly, I want to compete, as do our presidents and athletic directors. … But at the end of the day, we’re committed to safety and health. We need to see a noticeable decline in virus trends.”
In early January, Warden and his wife, a former Yale women’s hockey player, co-wrote a letter to all eight of the Ivy League presidents and Harris. In it, they acknowledged the Ivy’s leadership in shutting down basketball last season and eventually all spring sports in 2020.
But now that all of the other Division I conferences have created scheduling structures and remodeled facilities to support playing sports safely, they wrote, it’s time for the Ivy to lift its ban.
They followed up on Jan. 20 with a five-page, deeply researched letter that concluded COVID-19 data “simply does not justify the Ivy League’s continued ban on athletics.” One alternative they offered was for schools to make individual decisions on spring sports rather than following a leaguewide mandate. 
“It’s been proven around the world that sports can be played safely,” said Pyne, who had one son, Brendan, play football at Buffalo and another son, Drew, play at Notre Dame this past fall. Pyne played football at Brown in the 1980s.
“In terms of student-athlete health, I think it’s very safe,” said Pyne, who already has reached out to Brown President Christina Paxson. “I can appreciate where the Ivy League is coming from, but the right thing to do is to allow these young men and women, who have trained in their sport since they were 6 or 7 years old, to compete.”
Ivy League sports timeline
March 11, 2020: The Ivy League cancels its conference basketball tournaments and all spring athletic events. The league’s eight men’s basketball teams drew a combined attendance of 159,860 during the 2019-20 season, while the women’s squads drew 63,627. TIAA had been scheduled to be the presenting sponsor of both the men’s and women’s basketball conference tournaments March 13-15 at Harvard’s Lavietes Pavilion. Coca-Cola, Kraft-Heinz, Nike and Reveal Suits round out the conference’s corporate partner portfolio. JMI Sports is the conference’s official marketing rights partner.
July 8, 2020: The league is the first Division I conference to suspend all fall sports, including football, soccer, field hockey, volleyball and cross country, as well as the fall portion of winter sports like basketball. The conference’s eight football teams drew a combined attendance of 316,307 in 2019. Yale’s men’s lacrosse team drew 30,000+ at both the NCAA Championship games in 2018 (at Gillette Stadium) and 2019 (Lincoln Financial Field). There are no Ivy League on-campus venues with a corporate naming-rights deal.
Nov. 12, 2020: The Ivy League cancels winter sports for the 2020-21 season and postpones spring sports until at least the end of February. 
Winter 2020-21: Multiple athletes transfer to non-Ivy League schools, including Yale basketball player Paul Atkinson (to Notre Dame) and Harvard football player Eric Wilson (to Penn State). Additionally, Yale lacrosse player TD Ierlan, the NCAA’s all-time leading faceoff winner, announced he will transfer to Denver if spring sports are canceled. More than three dozen athletes have already taken advantage of the NCAA transfer portal to move to another non-Ivy school.
Jan. 14, 2021: In an email to student athletes and coaches, the league says that it has yet to determine whether the spring sports season will occur, saying in a statement: “Unfortunately, the current trends of the virus have not improved, and in fact have gotten worse. Students should understand that there must be significant changes in the state of the pandemic before competition becomes feasible and that a number of factors are outside institutional control.” 
— David Broughton
Warden, whose letter included COVID-19 stats that compared schools in the Ivy to Duke, Stanford, Northwestern, Vanderbilt and Bucknell, said he has not received a response from the conference.
Harris said athlete safety on the field was just one component of deciding whether to return.
“The issue really comes down to campus safety,” Harris said. “Competition itself may not lead to higher rates of transmission, which is great, but there are still restrictions on travel and what they can do on campus. We are seeing nationally that teams have to pause because of transmissions away from the field. … What our presidents are focused on is the campus because those team members are students and they live with other students who are not necessarily on the team and that could cause a spread throughout campus. So that’s the concern.”
In the two weeks since the Wardens wrote to Harris, several Ivy League graduates also have advocated for a return to competition.
Tsai, who played lacrosse at Yale, has offered to pay for bubble-like facilities for men’s and women’s teams if it will help them compete this spring, Levine said.
Levine, a Cornell graduate and lacrosse standout, has rallied some highly influential Ivy Leaguers as well, including former NFL players Kevin Boothe and Keith Elias, to lobby the presidents.
“This is an issue that hits close to home for me,” Levine said, adding that Cornell was 5-0 and ranked second nationally when last spring’s lacrosse season was shuttered. For those Ivy athletes who returned, he doesn’t want them to have to sit a second season.
Slusher, a Dartmouth grad, comes at it from the parent’s perspective. His son, Alex, a member of the U.S. men’s U20 team, stars on the Princeton lacrosse team, and they both are advocating for a return to competition.
Other athletes are attempting to use their platform as well. Both the men’s and women’s lacrosse teams at Brown started an online petition that had nearly 10,000 signatures as of last week, using #LetTheLeaguePlay on social media.
Hiltzik, a Cornell grad, fears that Ivy League athletics could be damaged from an extended period of sitting out. U.S. Lacrosse magazine reported that 19 players from the Princeton women’s lacrosse team planned to take a leave from school this semester because of the spring sports uncertainty.
They didn’t want to burn a year of eligibility by taking classes this spring, only to have their season canceled. Ivy athletes are not allowed to redshirt or compete as graduate students, meaning they only have their first four years as undergraduates to play.
As the calendar turns to February this week, the heat will continue to intensify from those seeking a return to competition.
Walden made the point that even Boston, which sits just across the Charles River from Cambridge, Mass.-based Harvard, will enter a more aggressive phase this week, which will enable businesses such as indoor recreational facilities, arcades, museums and sightseeing tours to reopen.
“People in Boston are going to be able to take a bus tour or a harbor cruise, but nobody can compete in athletics on Harvard’s campus,” Walden said. “I don’t know about you, but I’d feel a lot safer practicing and competing at Harvard than I would waiting in line to get on a bus tour.”

[notentitled]

11th hour cancellations are not professional. If they had said from the beginning no sports or extra curriculars, everybody would have said fine.

[Typical Lax Dad]

11th hour cancellations are not professional. If they had said from the beginning no sports or extra curriculars, everybody would have said fine.

Do you know what has been communicated to the players?

[AreaLax]

IL reporting Yale out for the season

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ason/57220

[notentitled]

Both football and basketball and other sports as well were not given go- no go until seasons were already started. Sports are not the most important thing in the world, but be forward with the participants.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Both football and basketball and other sports as well were not given go- no go until seasons were already started. Sports are not the most important thing in the world, but be forward with the participants.

Do you know how they were informed along the way or just told at the end...no sports this year out of the blue? Some Ivies are all in for the lacrosse season, some others are not. We will see who plays and how. A lot of players have planned accordingly.

[Lax3]

Curious whether other Ivy dominoes will fall accordingly. Allegedly Princeton only has 11 players and no goalie on the roster for this season.

[The Orfling]

IL reporting Yale out for the season

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ason/57220

I can confirm.

[HopFan16]

Curious whether other Ivy dominoes will fall accordingly. Allegedly Princeton only has 11 players and no goalie on the roster for this season.

They will fall. Chris Jast is reporting that Cornell is in the same boat. Harvard is almost certainly not playing from what I've heard. Most guys taking the semester off. I heard that if any, Penn might have the best chance to play of the Ivy teams (even if it's not a very good one)—but it's almost certain at this point that the league will not have a season.

[The Orfling]

I won't repost my whole post on the Yale forum, but I'm really frustrated that the Ivy presidents did not make a firm decision by the semester re-enrollment deadline. Not fair to make the players determine it by getting to a critical mass of guys taking the semester off to preserve a future, more certain, season. Yes, there are uncertainties -- what will happen with the UK and South Africa variants? Will vaccine distribution pick up? But I think the presidents had enough information to get out in front and make the call: play or don't play. Had they said "don't play" -- we're not bringing the rest of our students back -- I'd miss lacrosse but defer to their need to navigate through the manyfold implications of COVID-19. But to decline a decision and force specific teams/programs to cancel -- that's a failure of leadership.