JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[old salt]

They are not germane to the immediate situation or how we respond to Iran's escalating military provocations.

Iran's nuclear program isn't germane to how we handle Iran? Why are they escalating in the first place? Bored on a Tuesday afternoon, and looking for something fun to do?

Iran's nuclear program is how we arrived at this place. Ignore it, and naval exercises with China and Russia. Trump is, too. So really, we're all set, everything is goin' great.

We're not stopping Iran from ceasing hostilities & coming back to the negotiating table.

How many plane loads of cash are you willing to send ?

The 4 day "naval exercises" were an irrelevant distraction. ..
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020 ... ander-says

[tech37]

Hey Tech, my Persian friend’s brother made a mint in Menlo Park and just bought in Bronxville.... Running a tech company in NYC now. She is coming over in the Summer with her kids. I have 4 or 5 Iranian friends. Just normal people like most here. Only one was “militant” and gave a rats ass about politics. Like here, life is good for those born into good circumstances...



They ain’t all peasants. Life is just as tough in Ansonia and Derby!

And why are your Persian friends here making it big when they could be back in their homeland, propping up the Mullah regime, confronting the infidels at every turn?

Who said anything about peasants?

In much of the Middle East, and even in Iran, the military commander was feared, and his death has been greeted with elation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... ed/604396/

And in Iraq:

Anti-gov't protesters in Baghdad accuse authorities of double standard for not cracking down on pro-Iran demonstrators.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/ ... 14331.html

Seems to me the Mullahs may be weakened not strengthened by the hit. We shall see...

Some are there. Who do you think is suffering in Iran? It's peasants. Just like here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019-20_Iranian_protests

Arrest of journalists and lawyers
The European Parliament condemned the government of Iran for harassment of lawyers and journalists, and for denying legal assistance to the large number of protesters already in jail.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Hey Tech, my Persian friend’s brother made a mint in Menlo Park and just bought in Bronxville.... Running a tech company in NYC now. She is coming over in the Summer with her kids. I have 4 or 5 Iranian friends. Just normal people like most here. Only one was “militant” and gave a rats ass about politics. Like here, life is good for those born into good circumstances...



They ain’t all peasants. Life is just as tough in Ansonia and Derby!

And why are your Persian friends here making it big when they could be back in their homeland, propping up the Mullah regime, confronting the infidels at every turn?

Who said anything about peasants?

In much of the Middle East, and even in Iran, the military commander was feared, and his death has been greeted with elation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... ed/604396/

And in Iraq:

Anti-gov't protesters in Baghdad accuse authorities of double standard for not cracking down on pro-Iran demonstrators.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/ ... 14331.html

Seems to me the Mullahs may be weakened not strengthened by the hit. We shall see...

Some are there. Who do you think is suffering in Iran? It's peasants. Just like here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019-20_Iranian_protests

Arrest of journalists and lawyers
The European Parliament condemned the government of Iran for harassment of lawyers and journalists, and for denying legal assistance to the large number of protesters already in jail.

And? Are you suggesting that the poor are not disproportionately impacted?

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's all relative.....but this was different

[a fan]

There's a fan at his best...where did I state I have "exact answers?" I posed a hypothetical and posted some articles that were relevant

No. You asked what could be worse than the current regime. And because we're online, and I know this annoys you to no end...I have to fill in the blanks.

So when someone says "what's worse than the current regime", that tells me that it hasn't occurred to them that regime change would likely mean a long Civil War like Syria. All they see is the "problem' right in front of their face. Just like we did before taking out Saddam. Shoot first. Worry about details some other time.

And I never said "it'll work this time"...why would you put that in quotes? Why do this $hhit?

Uh-oh. We're running into the same problem. You complain about me putting words in your mouth, and then turn right around and do it yourself.

I put it in quotes to isolate the idiom. The turn of phrase. I was mocking the concept "it'll work this time" that defines 50 years of ME policy.

At no point did I attribute that quote to you. So please, don't put words in my mouth. Thank you.

"Trump killed a bad guy. Hurray!". If that's how you see things, that's pretty sad.

You think TrumpFans are thinking big picture with Iran? Okay. What I see are a whole lot of "obama was a pansy, Trump is a real man" nonsense out there. These are not people who are thinking through what's next.


So are you ready to discuss your regime change now? Or are you moving on?

[Typical Lax Dad]

[jhu72]

Remember when Trump drew on a weather map with a sharpie to invent a hurricane warning and then made officials say the warning was real? Remember his massive Inauguration? Share the intel with bipartisan Congress and we’ll believe it.

The decision to kill Soleimani

Reading the article if the timeline is correct, there is no way Trump considered for even one second some special new intel signaling anything imminent. Just more lies and BS from these liars.

One Dem is now claiming they were debriefed today by Pence. Useless as teats on a bull. The democrats will be holding hearings of the intel community. They will find there was no new intel.

Trump is a war criminal - his actions were outside the law.

Take the boner out of your eye & read what you linked. Solemani green lighted the series of rocket attacks attacks on US citizens in Iraq prompting Trump to green light taking out Soleimani when the opportunity presented itself.

Try again there Admiral Milton Bradley.

As rocket attacks against U.S. bases in Iraq intensified over the last two months, the president had granted the Pentagon extraordinary latitude: The U.S. military had his permission to kill Soleimani the next time it had an opportunity to do so, according to a senior defense official who was not authorized to speak on the record.

The article made no mention of a requirement to only take him out if there was an imminent threat. Soleimani green lighted lots of attacks IN THE PAST! There is zero current evidence he had ordered anything that was imminent. No one believable has been shown proof of imminent threat! Nothing but trust me from liars.

Frankly it is not going to matter. No one is going to do anything about Trump being a war criminal, other than the Iranians who will kill Americans regardless of crime or not, they don't care either.

Enjoy the body bags.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Like your hero Trump said, we kill people too....we ain't so innocent.

[jhu72]

You may be underestimating the significance of Soleimani & the availability of a worthy successor.

Possibly, but even if the successor is not as charismatic or strategically skilled, he still can do a lot of damage, especially now that he has all of Iran fully behind him and thirsting for revenge.

It remains to be seen whether Trump has pulled the pin on the grenade. That's a scary thought.

Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?

Dream on.

[jhu72]

You may be underestimating the significance of Soleimani & the availability of a worthy successor.

Possibly, but even if the successor is not as charismatic or strategically skilled, he still can do a lot of damage, especially now that he has all of Iran fully behind him and thirsting for revenge.

It remains to be seen whether Trump has pulled the pin on the grenade. That's a scary thought.

Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?

Uhhh no.

Excellent response. Right up there with "uh huh"

Well, your assertion was completely unrealistic (and I’m being polite). If anything, the killing strengthened the hand of the clerics and the Revolutionary Guards.

DocBarrister

Yup

[old salt]

Boner wrote:
As rocket attacks against U.S. bases in Iraq intensified over the last two months, the president had granted the Pentagon extraordinary latitude: The U.S. military had his permission to kill Soleimani the next time it had an opportunity to do so, according to a senior defense official who was not authorized to speak on the record.

The article made no mention of a requirement to only take him out if there was an imminent threat.

Duh. Like I said -- because of the increasing number of rocket attacks, Trump gave them a green light to take out Soleimani when they had a clean shot. Imminent threat ? They killed 1 American & wounded others. Trump has repeatedly warned there'd be a response if they killed an American.

You conveniently omitted this part -- ...the official, who wouldn’t say how recently Trump gave the Pentagon that authorization—whether it was hours, weeks or even months earlier. As recently as New Year’s Eve, the president was telling reporters that he didn’t want war with Iran.

Bolton says we've known where Soleimani is many times. Trump assembled his war cabinet in Mar a Lago for New Years, Pompero cx'd his Ukraine trip & they didn't take the shot until an American was killed. Maybe they waited until he had his PMF commanders with him -- bonus points.

[jhu72]

They are not germane to the immediate situation or how we respond to Iran's escalating military provocations.

Iran's nuclear program isn't germane to how we handle Iran? Why are they escalating in the first place? Bored on a Tuesday afternoon, and looking for something fun to do?

Iran's nuclear program is how we arrived at this place. Ignore it, and naval exercises with China and Russia. Trump is, too. So really, we're all set, everything is goin' great.

We're not stopping Iran from ceasing hostilities & coming back to the negotiating table.

...

Mrs. Maisel I'd say you are a fool if you think there is any chance there will be a negotiation anytime in the near future.

[jhu72]

Boner wrote:
As rocket attacks against U.S. bases in Iraq intensified over the last two months, the president had granted the Pentagon extraordinary latitude: The U.S. military had his permission to kill Soleimani the next time it had an opportunity to do so, according to a senior defense official who was not authorized to speak on the record.

The article made no mention of a requirement to only take him out if there was an imminent threat.

Duh. Like I said -- because of the increasing number of rocket attacks, Trump gave them a green light to take out Soleimani when they had a clean shot. Imminent threat ? They killed 1 American & wounded others. Trump has repeatedly warned there'd be a response if they killed an American.

You conveniently omitted this part -- ...the official, who wouldn’t say how recently Trump gave the Pentagon that authorization—whether it was hours, weeks or even months earlier. As recently as New Year’s Eve, the president was telling reporters that he didn’t want war with Iran.

Bolton says we've known where Soleimani is many times. Trump assembled his war cabinet in Mar a Lago for New Years, Pompero cx'd his Ukraine trip & they didn't take the shot until an American was killed. Maybe they waited until he had his PMF commanders with him -- bonus points.

Try again Milton - there is still no evidence of a "imminent (and sinister) attack" being taken into consideration by anyone associated with this nonsense.

Note: the fact that it is alleged to be sinister makes all the difference, and really bad.

[a fan]

We're not stopping Iran from ceasing hostilities & coming back to the negotiating table.

Back to renegotiate the deal we already negotiated and agreed to. Got it. Going to pretend like you don't understand that Iran is complicated, and there are many powers at work in Iran. Okay. I'm sure your path will work out great.

Tell me, if this forces a Civil War.....you and VDH going to tell us "now what?"

Great news for you and VDH. Trump is handling all of this perfectly, so we're all set. If there's anything Trump excels at, it's long term thinking.

The 4 day "naval exercises" were an irrelevant distraction. ..
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020 ... ander-says

I'm curious, since you're rolling your eyes at me: when you vote Republican, does it kick in a DNA trait that makes you physically unable to think in longer than ten minute increments? Does it give you nausea?

Chinese, Iranian and Russian forces are getting together and working together....getting to know each other on a personal level?

Oh yeah, this is a nothing sandwich. I can't think of anything bad coming of this.

[kramerica.inc]

This dude that got offed was most certainly a terrorist. The group he led, the Quds were designated a terrorist group by the U.S. in 2007.

It is Iran’s state-sponsored terror program!

The US was certainly justified in killing him for that reason alone. Even more so if the reports that the Quds sponsored the Christmas embassy protest/attack or planned future ones. Reports out there before trumps announcement today that this was a pre-emotive strike to prevent another attack.

Was it a good idea? We don’t know yet. But the people rewriting history and whitewashing who this terrorist really was is insane.

[old salt]

We're not stopping Iran from ceasing hostilities & coming back to the negotiating table.

Back to renegotiate the deal we already negotiated and agreed to. Got it. Going to pretend like you don't understand that Iran is complicated, and there are many powers at work in Iran. Okay. I'm sure your path will work out great.

Tell me, if this forces a Civil War.....you and VDH going to tell us "now what?"

Great news for you and VDH. Trump is handling all of this perfectly, so we're all set. If there's anything Trump excels at, it's long term thinking.

The 4 day "naval exercises" were an irrelevant distraction. ..
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020 ... ander-says

I'm curious, since you're rolling your eyes at me: when you vote Republican, does it kick in a DNA trait that makes you physically unable to think in longer than ten minute increments? Does it give you nausea?

Chinese, Iranian and Russian forces are getting together and working together....getting to know each other on a personal level?

Oh yeah, this is a nothing sandwich. I can't think of anything bad coming of this.

Right the JCPOA was perfect. The "naval exercise" was a photo op. The Russians had to send a logistics ship & a rescue tug to get 1 Frigate there. The Chinese sent 1 Destroyer, so they could steam in line for a photo, shoot small arms over the side & have in port fire drills. I'm sure US 5th Fleet was sweating bullets.

Have you considered the possibility that Trump may be using this as an excuse to get us out of Iraq ? Force the Iraqi govt to choose between the US & Iran as allies. If the Iraqis want to continue to receive US economic & military aid & training, they need to get control of the PMF Shia militias. How effective do you think the ISF will be without US trainers, contractors & logistics. Do they want to count on the PMF to protect them from a Daesh comeback. They need to face the reality that if they ask us to leave again, we won't come back next time.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your ... ntractors/

[a fan]

Let us not forget that when Trump took office, we had a nuclear agreement with Iran, negotiated by the Obama administration along with our closest allies. Countries from all over the world came together to negotiate that agreement that put a lid on Iran’s nuclear program.

The wise course would have been to stick with that nuclear agreement, enforce its provisions, and use that diplomatic channel with Iran to address a wide range of other concerns, including their support of terrorism.-Bernie Sanders.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what it looks like when you have a leader who has an IQ above room temperature. Put the Iran nuclear deal in your pocket. Both sides move forward with a little more trust. THEN you negotiate for the terrorism stuff. So obvious that a guy like me came up with this same solution when Trump reneged. And no, this isn't snobbery. This is saying: this path was so obvious, that a dumb*ss with zero foreign policy experience came up with the solution all by himself. And here is Bernie giving the same solution a year later.

[a fan]

We're not stopping Iran from ceasing hostilities & coming back to the negotiating table.

Back to renegotiate the deal we already negotiated and agreed to. Got it. Going to pretend like you don't understand that Iran is complicated, and there are many powers at work in Iran. Okay. I'm sure your path will work out great.

Tell me, if this forces a Civil War.....you and VDH going to tell us "now what?"

Great news for you and VDH. Trump is handling all of this perfectly, so we're all set. If there's anything Trump excels at, it's long term thinking.

The 4 day "naval exercises" were an irrelevant distraction. ..
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020 ... ander-says

I'm curious, since you're rolling your eyes at me: when you vote Republican, does it kick in a DNA trait that makes you physically unable to think in longer than ten minute increments? Does it give you nausea?

Chinese, Iranian and Russian forces are getting together and working together....getting to know each other on a personal level?

Oh yeah, this is a nothing sandwich. I can't think of anything bad coming of this.

Right the JCPOA was perfect. The "naval exercise" was a photo op. The Russians had to send a logistics ship & a rescue tug to get 1 Frigate there. The Chinese sent 1 Destroyer, so they could steam in line for a photo, shoot small arms over the side & have in port fire drills. I'm sure US 5th Fleet was sweating bullets.

Have you considered the possibility that Trump may be using this as an excuse to get us out of Iraq ? Force the Iraqi govt to choose between the US & Iran as allies. If the Iraqis want to continue to receive US economic & military aid & training, they need to get control of the PMF Shia militias. How effective do you think the ISF will be without US trainers, contractors & logistics. Do they want to count on the PMF to protect them from a Daesh comeback. They need to face the reality that if they ask us to leave again, we won't come back next time.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your ... ntractors/

I think I'm going to just leave this thread alone for a while. I like you too much, and I simply can't comprehend your line of thinking. I don't want to get all spooled up and say mean things to you.....so I'll just put it on ice, and say agree to disagree.

Happy New Year!

[Brooklyn]

With all this talk of a possible WW III thanks to USA provocations in the Middle East, there is talk that the military draft might be reinstated:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-w ... story.html


Friday, after a United States drone strike killed Iran’s top security and intelligence commander, prompting concerns about the possibility of war, that oft-forgotten ritual became a reason for spiking anxiety among many Americans.

“World War III” started trending on social media. Many young men suddenly remembered registering after their 18th birthdays, many to apply for college financial aid. One Twitter user posted that he had blocked the account of the U.S. Army, with the (faulty) reasoning that: “They can’t draft you if they can’t see you.”

Interest was so high that it overwhelmed the website for the Selective Service System, the independent government agency that maintains a database of Americans eligible for a potential draft. “Due to the spread of misinformation, our website is experiencing high traffic volumes at this time,” the agency said on Twitter, adding, “We appreciate your patience.”



Prepare to have your children die in an overseas war. That's what you get when you vote Republican.

[old salt]

Let us not forget that when Trump took office, we had a nuclear agreement with Iran, negotiated by the Obama administration along with our closest allies. Countries from all over the world came together to negotiate that agreement that put a lid on Iran’s nuclear program.

The wise course would have been to stick with that nuclear agreement, enforce its provisions, and use that diplomatic channel with Iran to address a wide range of other concerns, including their support of terrorism.-Bernie Sanders.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what it looks like when you have a leader who has an IQ above room temperature. Put the Iran nuclear deal in your pocket. Both sides move forward with a little more trust. THEN you negotiate for the terrorism stuff. So obvious that a guy like me came up with this same solution when Trump reneged. And no, this isn't snobbery. This is saying: this path was so obvious, that a dumb*ss with zero foreign policy experience came up with the solution all by himself. And here is Bernie giving the same solution a year later.

That's a great feel good story, but a fairy tale. Had Iran acted like a rational nation that wanted to peacefully coexist with their neighbors. We tried to move forward with a little more trust for 4 years, we even fought & defeated IS together. How did Iran react ? They expanded their proxy war against our allies throughout the region, enabled the slaughter & displacement of millions of Syrians, attempted to turn Iraq into their satellite & resumed attacking us as soon as we'd defeated IS for them. If this Iranian regime ever intended to act in good faith, they had more than ample opportunity. They played us for suckers, clawed back their money, armed their proxies & resumed their proxy war for ME dominance.

Interesting background & options @ the day before Soleimani's departure for paradise, much of it still relevant.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/m ... -over-yet/