Conservatives and Liberals

[Bart]

Frankly, Daniels was far too timid in speaking the truth more directly ... that ignorance is more of a problem in Republican, rural, and conservative America.

DocBarrister

Sorry Doc, I see this manifest itself equally in a liberal college campus.

The nice thing about college educated people is that they generally continue to learn throughout and after college and become more well-rounded and less ignorant.

It's tough to say that about people with fewer educational opportunities.

In general, folks who have significant exposure to diverse points of view, backgrounds, and knowledge tend to be far less likely to have prejudices about those who in some way differ from them. In large part, this is due to the evolutionary, survival impulse to get along in community, the desire to be 'liked' by others. We tend to expand the parameters of our own tolerance in the desire to be accepted by others as well, with whom we find ourselves in 'community'.

This does tend to happen on college campuses, particularly those which attract students and faculty from a diversity of backgrounds, the more so the better in that sense. As we've been discussing (I think on another thread) this also happens in the military.

However, people who remain siloed in a particular, insular community (whether rural or urban) are much less likely to be tolerant of others, largely based on their lack of positive contact with others different from themselves. It's indeed accurate that rural areas are more likely to have such insularity, particularly as those who manage to gain educational opportunities and mobility tend to aggregate where economic opportunity is greatest isn't rural America.

I may agree with this but one of the MOST insular communities in our fair land is that of the college campus. Where most academics share insulated views that are often, not always, out of sync with those same rural communities they are in that you speak of. Do you think the academics welcome the opposing views from their rural neighbors? No, they write letters to the editor and articles in the school paper about how out of touch their neighbors actually are. It is not a one way street with regards to ignorance or views that are insulated. IMO

Unfortunately, even when in diverse situations, our desire to be 'accepted' and 'liked' also leads us to seek specific groups with identities with whom we are most comfortable. And this can lead to balkanization, and even hostility, defining one's own identity in opposition to others.

Helping this, at least somewhat, had been the relatively common sources of information flow previously in our society. Whether rural, suburban, or urban, many of our information sources were shared experiences, the same national magazines, the same tv networks, etc. There was relatively less balkanization of information. No longer the case.

We're struggling with this.

I'm struggling with claiming that academia is "one of MOST insular communities" in America. Presumably you mean in terms of liberal vs conservative leanings, not race, religion, ethnic ancestry, gender power, etc? Hard to classify as among the "MOST insular" if that is the sole determinant.

Insular from a political point of view. The other you speak of I would agree

Even looking at the liberal vs conservative bent, which is definitely correct except for a handful of religious dominated institutions, it's difficult to find a major, or highly selective, college without conservatives on the faculty. I can't speak for your NYS school (are you a faculty member or member of the administration?) but I do know that Ivies have lots of conservatives within the faculty ranks. Are they significantly outnumbered? Sure. But are they silent? No.

Define alot? 5%? 10% I could count on one hand the conservative faculty or staff at my place of employment that I know of. I know of only cause they are vocal.

Where I do think that there's some uniformity on college campuses is that the faculty all pretty much understand that they need to respect the diversity of their student body. Colleges are definitely struggling with how to do so.

Some do, some do not. Being a vocal right leaning student, not even a strident conservative, is very difficult in some instances.

However, if we simply examine the definition of the word "insular", "ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience." it's difficult to say that there aren't faculty members interested in studying cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience". Heck, that's exactly what the social sciences are all about, trying to understand how different people make choices and why.

Ok, sure.

On the other hand, is there plenty of 'ignorance' or even outright dismissal of rural, working class America among many faculty?

Sure. But, again, not all. Not by a long shot.

All? Sorry never meant to insinuate all. Painting with such wide brush is wrong. I will say enough to notice with very little effort. Look, I work with a great number of wonderful, intelligent people who work hard and do a really good job educating our students. I usually stick to talking nerd and steer away from politics with most(and usually stay away from it on here as well), 1 or 2 perhaps, as I found many to be ultra rigid in their position and to be honest unwilling to appreciate others political POV. I also disagree with the notion that having a Ph.D or working at an institution of higher learning ensures an open mind, sorry I have seen too many instances just the opposite.

[a fan]

I would say one of the big differences is many on the right think that many of the left's ideas are bad and have been proven bad over and over, while many on the left think those on the right are evil people.

I'll bite. What are these lefty ideas that have been "proven" bad?

Want some rightie ideas that have been proven bad? Here's the biggest one of all: the freer the market, the greater the suffering of the bottom 75% earners.

And since we're talking about rural America: Rural America cannot exist without both massive socialism, and draining money from cities from both Federal and State taxpayers to give rural Americans the lifestyle they not only expect...but the lifestyle they demand.

[a fan]

Define alot? 5%? 10% I could count on one hand the conservative faculty or staff at my place of employment that I know of. I know of only cause they are vocal.

Not a big deal. The pendulum swings, as it always has.

How many conservatives do you suppose worked at your school 70 years ago? 99%?

These things ebb and flow. Be happy the libs don't handle it the way conservatives did in America all the way until the 1960's.

They simply wouldn't allow you to teach at all for having the "wrong" views. Or being the "wrong" gender, race, or religion. So sure, complain about having a minority view. But at least you're there, getting paid!

I was much more conservative than my fellow classmates at college when it came to curriculum and literature. I survived just fine.

[holmes435]

I would say one of the big differences is many on the right think that many of the left's ideas are bad and have been proven bad over and over, while many on the left think those on the right are evil people. Look at what DB thinks of Trump voters. It's how he can call Trump a racist, when all indications are he is completely colorblind in that regard. He won NAACP awards and had a hit show, and nobody called him a racist until he messed with their rice bowl. He will blow away the "R" percentage of the African American vote in 2020 because of his outreach.

Doc, all of this hate can't be good for you.

That certainly may be true from your perspective, but many of my liberal friends don't believe people on the right are evil, they just think many of the right's ideas are bad and have been proven bad over and over. At the same time, they feel the right attacks them, saying they are mentally ill or evil (see Bandito's posts like this)

It's simply a matter of who's attacking your ideas.

[Bart]

They simply wouldn't allow you to teach at all for having the "wrong" views. Or being the "wrong" gender, race, or religion. So sure, complain about having a minority view. But at least you're there, getting paid!

Didn't think I was complaining and certainly didn't say what my political "view" was. The point was that ignorance or willful disregard for opposing views is not relegated to the rural conservative communities docb originally brought up. Sorry, I just don't see Academe as the open land of discourse so many espouse it to be.

Thanks for the sanctimonious slap on the back however. I do enjoy the paycheck.

[MDlaxfan76]

I would say one of the big differences is many on the right think that many of the left's ideas are bad and have been proven bad over and over, while many on the left think those on the right are evil people. Look at what DB thinks of Trump voters. It's how he can call Trump a racist, when all indications are he is completely colorblind in that regard. He won NAACP awards and had a hit show, and nobody called him a racist until he messed with their rice bowl. He will blow away the "R" percentage of the African American vote in 2020 because of his outreach.

Doc, all of this hate can't be good for you.

That certainly may be true from your perspective, but many of my liberal friends don't believe people on the right are evil, they just think many of the right's ideas are bad and have been proven bad over and over. At the same time, they feel the right attacks them, saying they are mentally ill or evil (see Bandito's posts like this)

It's simply a matter of who's attacking your ideas.

I don't think either side of the political spectrum has had a monopoly on 'hating' the other side, as people or their ideas, viewing them as mentally deranged or evil.

Of course, neither side has no such mentally deranged and/or evil folks too!
Both have their nut jobs.

However, it's 2019.

Among the people who I know who skew furthest left and furthest right, none would I describe as actually evil, yet when they talk about those on the other 'team' you'd think every D or every R was in league with the devil. I do think that is evidence of some sort of mental issue.

I don't have a whole lot of very left folks in my life, though plenty of D's. Only a couple were what I'd consider over the top about R's pre-Trump. Critical, confrontationally so at times, but not all-inclusive in their condemnations of those who are simply GOP members.

On the other hand, I began to see this "I hate all Dems" stuff really take hold in some of my R friends and family post Obama and the emergence of the Tea Party. The anger was also at "RINO's". Spitting anger, really nasty.

And it was given this voice, this license, in the emergence of Trumpism. Very ugly.
The volume has been turned way up.

On this question of Trump's racism, all we know about what is in his heart is that he encourages others to be racist and bigoted. Is this because he knows how to inflame them for his political benefit, or back in his real estate days for his economic benefit? Or is it because he is deep down, very bigoted, and has only pretended from time to time not to be for his personal benefit?

Hard to tell...but does it really matter?

Again, my concern is authoritarianism, whether from left or right.
The danger in 2019 is from the right.

[Typical Lax Dad]

In 2019, anti fascism is a bad thing.

[MDlaxfan76]

Frankly, Daniels was far too timid in speaking the truth more directly ... that ignorance is more of a problem in Republican, rural, and conservative America.

DocBarrister

Sorry Doc, I see this manifest itself equally in a liberal college campus.

The nice thing about college educated people is that they generally continue to learn throughout and after college and become more well-rounded and less ignorant.

It's tough to say that about people with fewer educational opportunities.

In general, folks who have significant exposure to diverse points of view, backgrounds, and knowledge tend to be far less likely to have prejudices about those who in some way differ from them. In large part, this is due to the evolutionary, survival impulse to get along in community, the desire to be 'liked' by others. We tend to expand the parameters of our own tolerance in the desire to be accepted by others as well, with whom we find ourselves in 'community'.

This does tend to happen on college campuses, particularly those which attract students and faculty from a diversity of backgrounds, the more so the better in that sense. As we've been discussing (I think on another thread) this also happens in the military.

However, people who remain siloed in a particular, insular community (whether rural or urban) are much less likely to be tolerant of others, largely based on their lack of positive contact with others different from themselves. It's indeed accurate that rural areas are more likely to have such insularity, particularly as those who manage to gain educational opportunities and mobility tend to aggregate where economic opportunity is greatest isn't rural America.

I may agree with this but one of the MOST insular communities in our fair land is that of the college campus. Where most academics share insulated views that are often, not always, out of sync with those same rural communities they are in that you speak of. Do you think the academics welcome the opposing views from their rural neighbors? No, they write letters to the editor and articles in the school paper about how out of touch their neighbors actually are. It is not a one way street with regards to ignorance or views that are insulated. IMO

Unfortunately, even when in diverse situations, our desire to be 'accepted' and 'liked' also leads us to seek specific groups with identities with whom we are most comfortable. And this can lead to balkanization, and even hostility, defining one's own identity in opposition to others.

Helping this, at least somewhat, had been the relatively common sources of information flow previously in our society. Whether rural, suburban, or urban, many of our information sources were shared experiences, the same national magazines, the same tv networks, etc. There was relatively less balkanization of information. No longer the case.

We're struggling with this.

I'm struggling with claiming that academia is "one of MOST insular communities" in America. Presumably you mean in terms of liberal vs conservative leanings, not race, religion, ethnic ancestry, gender power, etc? Hard to classify as among the "MOST insular" if that is the sole determinant.

Insular from a political point of view. The other you speak of I would agree

Even looking at the liberal vs conservative bent, which is definitely correct except for a handful of religious dominated institutions, it's difficult to find a major, or highly selective, college without conservatives on the faculty. I can't speak for your NYS school (are you a faculty member or member of the administration?) but I do know that Ivies have lots of conservatives within the faculty ranks. Are they significantly outnumbered? Sure. But are they silent? No.

Define alot? 5%? 10% I could count on one hand the conservative faculty or staff at my place of employment that I know of. I know of only cause they are vocal.

Where I do think that there's some uniformity on college campuses is that the faculty all pretty much understand that they need to respect the diversity of their student body. Colleges are definitely struggling with how to do so.

Some do, some do not. Being a vocal right leaning student, not even a strident conservative, is very difficult in some instances.

However, if we simply examine the definition of the word "insular", "ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience." it's difficult to say that there aren't faculty members interested in studying cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience". Heck, that's exactly what the social sciences are all about, trying to understand how different people make choices and why.

Ok, sure.

On the other hand, is there plenty of 'ignorance' or even outright dismissal of rural, working class America among many faculty?

Sure. But, again, not all. Not by a long shot.

All? Sorry never meant to insinuate all. Painting with such wide brush is wrong. I will say enough to notice with very little effort. Look, I work with a great number of wonderful, intelligent people who work hard and do a really good job educating our students. I usually stick to talking nerd and steer away from politics with most(and usually stay away from it on here as well), 1 or 2 perhaps, as I found many to be ultra rigid in their position and to be honest unwilling to appreciate others political POV. I also disagree with the notion that having a Ph.D or working at an institution of higher learning ensures an open mind, sorry I have seen too many instances just the opposite.

Glad the conservatives do feel they can be "vocal". That's generally a good thing.

You are undoubtedly correct about some of your colleagues being 'ultra rigid' etc.
And certainly having a PhD etc does not guarantee an open mind.

But we're talking more generally here...are folks more or less likely to be more tolerant of diversity, including of views, in a college setting than in small town, rural America? Pretty sure that the college folks have a good edge in that regard, if only because they are more likely to be exposed to a diversity of views etc.

Education is also beneficial in this regard.
Less is simply not beneficial, more is for most people.
Not all.

[get it to x]

I would say one of the big differences is many on the right think that many of the left's ideas are bad and have been proven bad over and over, while many on the left think those on the right are evil people.

I'll bite. What are these lefty ideas that have been "proven" bad?

Want some rightie ideas that have been proven bad? Here's the biggest one of all: the freer the market, the greater the suffering of the bottom 75% earners.

And since we're talking about rural America: Rural America cannot exist without both massive socialism, and draining money from cities from both Federal and State taxpayers to give rural Americans the lifestyle they not only expect...but the lifestyle they demand.

Socialism and Communism have left death and misery wherever they have been tried. Even the Scandinavian countries are dialing back their generous welfare benefits as they see it saps initiative and innovation.

As for rural Americans, most of the wealth in this country is concentrated in a few metropolitan power centers. Since you don't want to grow your own food and you don't want to pay what it really costs to get it to you the rural folks are actually subsidizing your trip to Whole Foods (or Costco for that matter) with their less than eye-popping AGI. They will never make "hedge fund" money, which adds what value to our economy?

The parties are actually switching places, with Democrats representing the ultra wealthy and the poor (not a lot of intersecting interests there) and the Republicans the working class. See California, where many middle class people who can are decamping for Texas, Nevada, Idaho and Colorado (which they are in the process of screwing up).

Also, who in the bottom 75% in this country is suffering? Most people defined as "poor" in the U.S. have a car, TV, air conditioning and live in more square footage than the average European (not poor European, average European). Maybe even a cell phone courtesy of President Obama. Suffering is sitting on a beach dismantling a ship with your hands for $5 a day.

https://www.offbeattravelling.com/ship- ... r-suicide/

[MDlaxfan76]

I would say one of the big differences is many on the right think that many of the left's ideas are bad and have been proven bad over and over, while many on the left think those on the right are evil people.

I'll bite. What are these lefty ideas that have been "proven" bad?

Want some rightie ideas that have been proven bad? Here's the biggest one of all: the freer the market, the greater the suffering of the bottom 75% earners.

And since we're talking about rural America: Rural America cannot exist without both massive socialism, and draining money from cities from both Federal and State taxpayers to give rural Americans the lifestyle they not only expect...but the lifestyle they demand.

Socialism and Communism have left death and misery wherever they have been tried. So has Fascism. The consistent driver of that "death and misery" has been authoritarianism, not the economics per se.

Even the Scandinavian countries are dialing back their generous welfare benefits as they see it saps initiative and innovation. A bit. Adjustments in either direction make sense IMO.

As for rural Americans, most of the wealth in this country is concentrated in a few metropolitan power centers. Since you don't want to grow your own food and you don't want to pay what it really costs to get it to you the rural folks are actually subsidizing your trip to Whole Foods (or Costco for that matter) with their less than eye-popping AGI. They will never make "hedge fund" money, which adds what value to our economy?

Sounds like you are saying, "yes", our system is highly Socialistic when it comes to supporting Big Ag.
We're actually less good at supporting smaller farms and small towns, though it's indeed true that the largest examples of Socialism in the US is the transfer of wealth from high prosperity, more densely populated areas to those much poorer states that are far more rural.

The parties are actually switching places, with Democrats representing the ultra wealthy and the poor (not a lot of intersecting interests there) and the Republicans the working class. See California, where many middle class people who can are decamping for Texas, Nevada, Idaho and Colorado (which they are in the process of screwing up).

No, the Trump GOP has consolidated as older, less educated, white Christian...more rural and more male, but the key demographic drivers are race/religion/age. Lots of "working class" who don't fit in that demographic set choose the Dems instead. You may think of "working class" as white etc, but a whole lot of working folks are not.

Also, who in the bottom 75% in this country is suffering? Most people defined as "poor" in the U.S. have a car, TV, air conditioning and live in more square footage than the average European (not poor European, average European). Maybe even a cell phone courtesy of President Obama. Suffering is sitting on a beach dismantling a ship with your hands for $5 a day.

Well, there you go. Obviously nothing to be concerned about, right?

https://www.offbeattravelling.com/ship- ... r-suicide/

[Bandito]

In 2019, anti fascism is a bad thing.

Those claiming to be anti fascists- Antifa and Democrats are actually the fascists .

[MDlaxfan76]

Nut jobs abound.

[Typical Lax Dad]

In 2019, anti fascism is a bad thing.

Those claiming to be anti fascists- Antifa and Democrats are actually the fascists .

Anyone opposed to fascism and nationalism are the problem.

[Bandito]

Nut jobs abound.

Look in the mirror.

[Bandito]

In 2019, anti fascism is a bad thing.

Those claiming to be anti fascists- Antifa and Democrats are actually the fascists .

Anyone opposed to fascism and nationalism are the problem.

Fascism is a leftist ideology promoted by Democrats and their thug army- Antifa. You are a fascist, a bigot and a racist.

[MDlaxfan76]

In 2019, anti fascism is a bad thing.

Those claiming to be anti fascists- Antifa and Democrats are actually the fascists .

Anyone opposed to fascism and nationalism are the problem.

We really shouldn't feed trolls.
However, sad to say, there's real danger from these nut jobs in momma's basement.
I'm not sure what actually can be done about it, but it's indeed serious.

[Typical Lax Dad]

In 2019, anti fascism is a bad thing.

Those claiming to be anti fascists- Antifa and Democrats are actually the fascists .

Anyone opposed to fascism and nationalism are the problem.

Fascism is a leftist ideology promoted by Democrats and their thug army- Antifa. You are a fascist, a bigot and a racist.

Thanks for the compliment!

[Bart]

Frankly, Daniels was far too timid in speaking the truth more directly ... that ignorance is more of a problem in Republican, rural, and conservative America.

DocBarrister

Sorry Doc, I see this manifest itself equally in a liberal college campus.

The nice thing about college educated people is that they generally continue to learn throughout and after college and become more well-rounded and less ignorant.

It's tough to say that about people with fewer educational opportunities.

In general, folks who have significant exposure to diverse points of view, backgrounds, and knowledge tend to be far less likely to have prejudices about those who in some way differ from them. In large part, this is due to the evolutionary, survival impulse to get along in community, the desire to be 'liked' by others. We tend to expand the parameters of our own tolerance in the desire to be accepted by others as well, with whom we find ourselves in 'community'.

This does tend to happen on college campuses, particularly those which attract students and faculty from a diversity of backgrounds, the more so the better in that sense. As we've been discussing (I think on another thread) this also happens in the military.

However, people who remain siloed in a particular, insular community (whether rural or urban) are much less likely to be tolerant of others, largely based on their lack of positive contact with others different from themselves. It's indeed accurate that rural areas are more likely to have such insularity, particularly as those who manage to gain educational opportunities and mobility tend to aggregate where economic opportunity is greatest isn't rural America.

I may agree with this but one of the MOST insular communities in our fair land is that of the college campus. Where most academics share insulated views that are often, not always, out of sync with those same rural communities they are in that you speak of. Do you think the academics welcome the opposing views from their rural neighbors? No, they write letters to the editor and articles in the school paper about how out of touch their neighbors actually are. It is not a one way street with regards to ignorance or views that are insulated. IMO

Unfortunately, even when in diverse situations, our desire to be 'accepted' and 'liked' also leads us to seek specific groups with identities with whom we are most comfortable. And this can lead to balkanization, and even hostility, defining one's own identity in opposition to others.

Helping this, at least somewhat, had been the relatively common sources of information flow previously in our society. Whether rural, suburban, or urban, many of our information sources were shared experiences, the same national magazines, the same tv networks, etc. There was relatively less balkanization of information. No longer the case.

We're struggling with this.

I'm struggling with claiming that academia is "one of MOST insular communities" in America. Presumably you mean in terms of liberal vs conservative leanings, not race, religion, ethnic ancestry, gender power, etc? Hard to classify as among the "MOST insular" if that is the sole determinant.

Insular from a political point of view. The other you speak of I would agree

Even looking at the liberal vs conservative bent, which is definitely correct except for a handful of religious dominated institutions, it's difficult to find a major, or highly selective, college without conservatives on the faculty. I can't speak for your NYS school (are you a faculty member or member of the administration?) but I do know that Ivies have lots of conservatives within the faculty ranks. Are they significantly outnumbered? Sure. But are they silent? No.

Define alot? 5%? 10% I could count on one hand the conservative faculty or staff at my place of employment that I know of. I know of only cause they are vocal.

Where I do think that there's some uniformity on college campuses is that the faculty all pretty much understand that they need to respect the diversity of their student body. Colleges are definitely struggling with how to do so.

Some do, some do not. Being a vocal right leaning student, not even a strident conservative, is very difficult in some instances.

However, if we simply examine the definition of the word "insular", "ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience." it's difficult to say that there aren't faculty members interested in studying cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience". Heck, that's exactly what the social sciences are all about, trying to understand how different people make choices and why.

Ok, sure.

On the other hand, is there plenty of 'ignorance' or even outright dismissal of rural, working class America among many faculty?

Sure. But, again, not all. Not by a long shot.

All? Sorry never meant to insinuate all. Painting with such wide brush is wrong. I will say enough to notice with very little effort. Look, I work with a great number of wonderful, intelligent people who work hard and do a really good job educating our students. I usually stick to talking nerd and steer away from politics with most(and usually stay away from it on here as well), 1 or 2 perhaps, as I found many to be ultra rigid in their position and to be honest unwilling to appreciate others political POV. I also disagree with the notion that having a Ph.D or working at an institution of higher learning ensures an open mind, sorry I have seen too many instances just the opposite.

Glad the conservatives do feel they can be "vocal". That's generally a good thing.

You are undoubtedly correct about some of your colleagues being 'ultra rigid' etc.
And certainly having a PhD etc does not guarantee an open mind.

But we're talking more generally here...are folks more or less likely to be more tolerant of diversity, including of views, in a college setting than in small town, rural America? Pretty sure that the college folks have a good edge in that regard, if only because they are more likely to be exposed to a diversity of views etc.
Sorry, just can not agree with you here 100% Schools certainly are tolerant of diversity, religion, gender and almost everything. I just do not see tolerance in others views. Just my personal observation over the years. It has gotten much worse in the past 5-10 years. I will leave it up to smarter people than me to flash that one out.

I also agree education is beneficial. I also think education is not relegated to the classroom or campus
Education is also beneficial in this regard.
Less is simply not beneficial, more is for most people.
Not all.

[admin]

Bandito (and all), discuss issues, not post-ers. And, with that said...

Tweet! Bandito, 1 Minute (2 Day Penalty). You'll be released on Thursday at 5:16 PM. Tweet! Play on...

[MDlaxfan76]

Frankly, Daniels was far too timid in speaking the truth more directly ... that ignorance is more of a problem in Republican, rural, and conservative America.

DocBarrister

Sorry Doc, I see this manifest itself equally in a liberal college campus.

The nice thing about college educated people is that they generally continue to learn throughout and after college and become more well-rounded and less ignorant.

It's tough to say that about people with fewer educational opportunities.

In general, folks who have significant exposure to diverse points of view, backgrounds, and knowledge tend to be far less likely to have prejudices about those who in some way differ from them. In large part, this is due to the evolutionary, survival impulse to get along in community, the desire to be 'liked' by others. We tend to expand the parameters of our own tolerance in the desire to be accepted by others as well, with whom we find ourselves in 'community'.

This does tend to happen on college campuses, particularly those which attract students and faculty from a diversity of backgrounds, the more so the better in that sense. As we've been discussing (I think on another thread) this also happens in the military.

However, people who remain siloed in a particular, insular community (whether rural or urban) are much less likely to be tolerant of others, largely based on their lack of positive contact with others different from themselves. It's indeed accurate that rural areas are more likely to have such insularity, particularly as those who manage to gain educational opportunities and mobility tend to aggregate where economic opportunity is greatest isn't rural America.

I may agree with this but one of the MOST insular communities in our fair land is that of the college campus. Where most academics share insulated views that are often, not always, out of sync with those same rural communities they are in that you speak of. Do you think the academics welcome the opposing views from their rural neighbors? No, they write letters to the editor and articles in the school paper about how out of touch their neighbors actually are. It is not a one way street with regards to ignorance or views that are insulated. IMO

Unfortunately, even when in diverse situations, our desire to be 'accepted' and 'liked' also leads us to seek specific groups with identities with whom we are most comfortable. And this can lead to balkanization, and even hostility, defining one's own identity in opposition to others.

Helping this, at least somewhat, had been the relatively common sources of information flow previously in our society. Whether rural, suburban, or urban, many of our information sources were shared experiences, the same national magazines, the same tv networks, etc. There was relatively less balkanization of information. No longer the case.

We're struggling with this.

I'm struggling with claiming that academia is "one of MOST insular communities" in America. Presumably you mean in terms of liberal vs conservative leanings, not race, religion, ethnic ancestry, gender power, etc? Hard to classify as among the "MOST insular" if that is the sole determinant.

Insular from a political point of view. The other you speak of I would agree

Even looking at the liberal vs conservative bent, which is definitely correct except for a handful of religious dominated institutions, it's difficult to find a major, or highly selective, college without conservatives on the faculty. I can't speak for your NYS school (are you a faculty member or member of the administration?) but I do know that Ivies have lots of conservatives within the faculty ranks. Are they significantly outnumbered? Sure. But are they silent? No.

Define alot? 5%? 10% I could count on one hand the conservative faculty or staff at my place of employment that I know of. I know of only cause they are vocal.

Where I do think that there's some uniformity on college campuses is that the faculty all pretty much understand that they need to respect the diversity of their student body. Colleges are definitely struggling with how to do so.

Some do, some do not. Being a vocal right leaning student, not even a strident conservative, is very difficult in some instances.

However, if we simply examine the definition of the word "insular", "ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience." it's difficult to say that there aren't faculty members interested in studying cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience". Heck, that's exactly what the social sciences are all about, trying to understand how different people make choices and why.

Ok, sure.

On the other hand, is there plenty of 'ignorance' or even outright dismissal of rural, working class America among many faculty?

Sure. But, again, not all. Not by a long shot.

All? Sorry never meant to insinuate all. Painting with such wide brush is wrong. I will say enough to notice with very little effort. Look, I work with a great number of wonderful, intelligent people who work hard and do a really good job educating our students. I usually stick to talking nerd and steer away from politics with most(and usually stay away from it on here as well), 1 or 2 perhaps, as I found many to be ultra rigid in their position and to be honest unwilling to appreciate others political POV. I also disagree with the notion that having a Ph.D or working at an institution of higher learning ensures an open mind, sorry I have seen too many instances just the opposite.

Glad the conservatives do feel they can be "vocal". That's generally a good thing.

You are undoubtedly correct about some of your colleagues being 'ultra rigid' etc.
And certainly having a PhD etc does not guarantee an open mind.

But we're talking more generally here...are folks more or less likely to be more tolerant of diversity, including of views, in a college setting than in small town, rural America? Pretty sure that the college folks have a good edge in that regard, if only because they are more likely to be exposed to a diversity of views etc.
Sorry, just can not agree with you here 100% Schools certainly are tolerant of diversity, religion, gender and almost everything. I just do not see tolerance in others views. Just my personal observation over the years. It has gotten much worse in the past 5-10 years. I will leave it up to smarter people than me to flash that one out.

I also agree education is beneficial. I also think education is not relegated to the classroom or campus
Education is also beneficial in this regard.
Less is simply not beneficial, more is for most people.
Not all.

We definitely agree on education beyond the 'classroom'!
All sorts of ways to become well informed about the world in which we live and the people with whom we live.
That's why I noted the parallel discussion about the military, for instance.

Yes, folks have indeed become far faster on the draw in response to views being expressed that don't line up with their own.

5-10 years? Certainly last 4-5, though probably longer.
But it didn't seem to be this way during the '08 Presidential run.
Seemed like a heck of a lot less angry venom getting spewed, regardless of from which direction.

The balkanization of the media, in all forms, may be part of this phenomenon. It's gotten much worse, and those who thrive on division, whether inside the US or outside malign actors, have exploited these mechanisms.

We're all caught up in it, more than we'd like to admit.