Orange Duce

[DMac]

It's a funny thing, tech, people like 88 are a good part of the reason Trump is our Prez. You'll remember DocB's rantings about how awful the white race is, all racists, bigots, and just nasty people with ill intent in general. I and others warned him many times that that kind of talk would drive people to vote for Trump just to stick it in his type's asz and they did. Read and heed, 88, cuz you're doing that to me. I've never been inclined to vote for Trump, it's no secret how I feel about the guy. I am now though after reading your bullschidt and feeling your "appreciation" for those who serve and protect you when the need arises. I'd do it just to stick in your type's asz....just like so many did the first time around.
I doubt you have enough sense of decency to come on and apologize for the inaccurate picture you've tried to paint and the slanderous schitd you've put out there about our troops...no doubt that Big Red Ego wouldn't allow you to do anything of the sort, but be careful with what you say. Just sayin'.

No one can support a guy like Donald Trump—a vulgar, dishonest, moronic Birther with a long history of racism, bigotry, and misogyny, including numerous credible allegations of sexual harassment and assault—without being some combination of a racist, liar, bigot, moron, ignoramus, and/or misogynist. Just not possible. Does that mean every Trump supporter is all six things? Certainly not. Does it mean a Trump supporter is one or more of those things? Absolutely.

Anyone here seriously challenge that basic truth?

And remember, one thing that distinguishes Trump from some of his predecessors who were also flawed individuals (looking at you, Bill Clinton), is that Trump’s flaws are reflected in his policies and actions—racist, dishonest, bigoted, moronic, ignorant, misogynistic policies and actions.

DocBarrister

No one can support a guy like Donald Trump? Not only can they, they do and enough so that he's our Prez. I never would have believed he could win the first go 'round (remember though, it was a cream of the krapp vote) but I do in the second one. I agree with Mr. Moore:
https://www.newsweek.com/michael-moore- ... in-1479431
Am telling you, Doc, just as last time, your kind of talk (and 88's) will drive people to the booths to vote for Trump, you've got to find a different/better way. As Moore says, the Ds need to find the right candidate, they're not going to win with their bash Trump and his supporters campaign. It will backfire again and I'm feeling as if that's going to happen. How 'bout that economy, eh? Just sayin'.

[MDlaxfan76]

It's a funny thing, tech, people like 88 are a good part of the reason Trump is our Prez. You'll remember DocB's rantings about how awful the white race is, all racists, bigots, and just nasty people with ill intent in general. I and others warned him many times that that kind of talk would drive people to vote for Trump just to stick it in his type's asz and they did. Read and heed, 88, cuz you're doing that to me. I've never been inclined to vote for Trump, it's no secret how I feel about the guy. I am now though after reading your bullschidt and feeling your "appreciation" for those who serve and protect you when the need arises. I'd do it just to stick in your type's asz....just like so many did the first time around.
I doubt you have enough sense of decency to come on and apologize for the inaccurate picture you've tried to paint and the slanderous schitd you've put out there about our troops...no doubt that Big Red Ego wouldn't allow you to do anything of the sort, but be careful with what you say. Just sayin'.

No one can support a guy like Donald Trump—a vulgar, dishonest, moronic Birther with a long history of racism, bigotry, and misogyny, including numerous credible allegations of sexual harassment and assault—without being some combination of a racist, liar, bigot, moron, ignoramus, and/or misogynist. Just not possible. Does that mean every Trump supporter is all six things? Certainly not. Does it mean a Trump supporter is one or more of those things? Absolutely.

Anyone here seriously challenge that basic truth?

And remember, one thing that distinguishes Trump from some of his predecessors who were also flawed individuals (looking at you, Bill Clinton), is that Trump’s flaws are reflected in his policies and actions—racist, dishonest, bigoted, moronic, ignorant, misogynistic policies and actions.

DocBarrister

No one can support a guy like Donald Trump? Not only can they, they do and enough so that he's our Prez. I never would have believed he could win the first go 'round (remember though, it was a cream of the krapp vote) but I do in the second one. I agree with Mr. Moore:
https://www.newsweek.com/michael-moore- ... in-1479431
Am telling you, Doc, just as last time, your kind of talk (and 88's) will drive people to the booths to vote for Trump, you've got to find a different/better way. As Moore says, the Ds need to find the right candidate, they're not going to win with their bash Trump and his supporters campaign. It will backfire again and I'm feeling as if that's going to happen. How 'bout that economy, eh? Just sayin'.

DMac, Doc isn't running for President.

And what he said was that in order to support Trump you need to be willing to put aside his list of 6 characteristics that he believes describes Trump, either willfully or because one is oblivious to them. Doc's conclusion is that one needs to have at least one of those characteristics oneself in order to do so.

Doesn't mean the Trump supporter is actually aware that he/she has one or more of those characteristics, just that they do have them. And it overwhelms any dislike of the other aspects.

You are of course correct that telling them that doesn't win their votes.

I'm not so sure Doc is 100% correct, but I'm struggling to identify exceptions. Yes, most all of the Trump supporters who I know indeed have some degree of these elements, whether ingrained sexism or racism or anti-gay bigotry or fear of Islam, etc. Or an ignorance of these issues from the perspective of those who are most negatively impacted.

On the other hand, at least those Trump supporters who I know best, including family members and close friends of mine, are not full blown racists, bigots, misogynists, etc. Indeed, they exhibit countervailing tendencies as well. It's more of an ignorance of the depth of these issues, the reality of these issues, than actual dislike of others. It's more about limited experience, usually.

I see a heck of a lot of dislike, even hatred of Dems and liberals.
For drill, fueled by FoxNation et al.
And, if one looks closely, the most passionate of such do exhibit one or more (typically more) of Doc's described characteristics.

In the more rational expressions, this is more about economics than the social issues.
In some cases, these folks don't actually support Trump, are repulsed by him in many ways, but a Bernie or Warren won't get them to pull the lever for them, and they will most likely vote for Trump because of the choice.

[MDlaxfan76]

BTW, saw Bombshell last night.

I thought it was well done. Well acted and actually had a degree of suspense.
Learned some things I hadn't known, though when I read reviews it was criticized as not really being a revelation at this point, sort of an 'old news'.

Probably true for those most focused on the path of the METOO movement.

However, I bet most folks wouldn't really know the full story. I didn't.

It's actually a quite important story, albeit focused specifically on the firestorm at Fox begun by Gretchen Carlson's suit vs Roger Ailes.

Genuinely shocking.

Worth seeing, perhaps especially by those who might be disposed to not want to do so...

[Typical Lax Dad]

BTW, saw Bombshell last night.

I thought it was well done. Well acted and actually had a degree of suspense.
Learned some things I hadn't known, though when I read reviews it was criticized as not really being a revelation at this point, sort of an 'old news'.

Probably true for those most focused on the path of the METOO movement.

However, I bet most folks wouldn't really know the full story. I didn't.

It's actually a quite important story, albeit focused specifically on the firestorm at Fox begun by Gretchen Carlson's suit vs Roger Ailes.

Genuinely shocking.

Worth seeing, perhaps especially by those who might be disposed to not want to do so...

I plan on seeing it. It looks well done.

[SCLaxAttack]

....
On the other hand, at least those Trump supporters who I know best, including family members and close friends of mine, are not full blown racists, bigots, misogynists, etc. Indeed, they exhibit countervailing tendencies as well. It's more of an ignorance of the depth of these issues, the reality of these issues, than actual dislike of others. It's more about limited experience, usually.

.....

LMFAO

You just proved DMac’s point, and you don’t even realize it. SMH.

So those who’ll vote for Trump aren’t “full blown”, they’re just a little bit. And they’re that way because they’re ignorant, and lack experience.

Trump supporters are digging in their heels when they hear this, and they hear and see this every time they turn on their tv or go on-line.

And you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think people who’d never vote for Trump based on his policies and personal liabilities won’t vote for him because they’re sick and tired of hearing intellectual elitists saying some of their friends and relatives are racist, bigots, etc. - even if it’s only a little bit.

BTW, you’re also kidding yourself if you think you’re not one of those intellectual elitists. You prove it every time you remind us of your Ivy League connections, the boards your on, or the people with whom you’ve rubbed elbows.

[Brooklyn]

Members of Navy SEAL team called Eddie Gallagher "evil"





Chilling new details have emerged about the conduct of the Navy SEAL who was accused of war crimes but supported by President Trump. Confidential footage obtained by The New York Times shows members of SEAL team 7 being interviewed about the conduct of special operations chief Edward Gallagher. CBS News national security correspondent David Martin joined CBSN with more.



"standards" - hmmmm .....

[Kismet]

BTW, saw Bombshell last night.

I thought it was well done. Well acted and actually had a degree of suspense.
Learned some things I hadn't known, though when I read reviews it was criticized as not really being a revelation at this point, sort of an 'old news'.

Probably true for those most focused on the path of the METOO movement.

However, I bet most folks wouldn't really know the full story. I didn't.

It's actually a quite important story, albeit focused specifically on the firestorm at Fox begun by Gretchen Carlson's suit vs Roger Ailes.

Genuinely shocking.

Worth seeing, perhaps especially by those who might be disposed to not want to do so...

I'll pass. Gretchen Carlson lost me when she recently whined about having to abide by an NDA that she signed in order to collect the millions of $$$$$ in settlement from FoxNews. If she wants to talk, she should return the cash.

As for Fox, would not be surprised if Rupert was aware of the culture (after all he is on Marriage #4 to former spouse of Mick Jagger). When his son Lachlan found out he quit but, of course, what took him so long?????? The idea that all these male senior executives and stars were throwing their weight around against women without anyone knowing about it is ludicrous. They shut the women up with big payouts of cash and NDAs.

[DMac]

....
On the other hand, at least those Trump supporters who I know best, including family members and close friends of mine, are not full blown racists, bigots, misogynists, etc. Indeed, they exhibit countervailing tendencies as well. It's more of an ignorance of the depth of these issues, the reality of these issues, than actual dislike of others. It's more about limited experience, usually.

.....

LMFAO

You just proved DMac’s point, and you don’t even realize it. SMH.

So those who’ll vote for Trump aren’t “full blown”, they’re just a little bit. And they’re that way because they’re ignorant, and lack experience.

Trump supporters are digging in their heels when they hear this, and they hear and see this every time they turn on their tv or go on-line.

And you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think people who’d never vote for Trump based on his policies and personal liabilities won’t vote for him because they’re sick and tired of hearing intellectual elitists saying some of their friends and relatives are racist, bigots, etc. - even if it’s only a little bit.

BTW, you’re also kidding yourself if you think you’re not one of those intellectual elitists. You prove it every time you remind us of your Ivy League connections, the boards your on, or the people with whom you’ve rubbed elbows.

Yup, and thanks.

[SCLaxAttack]

BTW, saw Bombshell last night.

I thought it was well done. Well acted and actually had a degree of suspense.
Learned some things I hadn't known, though when I read reviews it was criticized as not really being a revelation at this point, sort of an 'old news'.

Probably true for those most focused on the path of the METOO movement.

However, I bet most folks wouldn't really know the full story. I didn't.

It's actually a quite important story, albeit focused specifically on the firestorm at Fox begun by Gretchen Carlson's suit vs Roger Ailes.

Genuinely shocking.

Worth seeing, perhaps especially by those who might be disposed to not want to do so...

I'll pass. Gretchen Carlson lost me when she recently whined about having to abide by an NDA that she signed in order to collect the millions of $$$$$ in settlement from FoxNews. If she wants to talk, she should return the cash.

As for Fox, would not be surprised if Rupert was aware of the culture (after all he is on Marriage #4 to former spouse of Mick Jagger). When his son Lachlan found out he quit but, of course, what took him so long?????? The idea that all these male senior executives and stars were throwing their weight around against women without anyone knowing about it is ludicrous. They shut the women up with big payouts of cash and NDAs.

Exactly. Same goes for Matt Lauer’s co-workers who were so surprised.

When I worked for large companies and went on their annual sales award meetings a group of us would gather to watch the goings-on between senior male executives and the women who liked them. The behavior and intention of each was obvious.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's a funny thing, tech, people like 88 are a good part of the reason Trump is our Prez. You'll remember DocB's rantings about how awful the white race is, all racists, bigots, and just nasty people with ill intent in general. I and others warned him many times that that kind of talk would drive people to vote for Trump just to stick it in his type's asz and they did. Read and heed, 88, cuz you're doing that to me. I've never been inclined to vote for Trump, it's no secret how I feel about the guy. I am now though after reading your bullschidt and feeling your "appreciation" for those who serve and protect you when the need arises. I'd do it just to stick in your type's asz....just like so many did the first time around.
I doubt you have enough sense of decency to come on and apologize for the inaccurate picture you've tried to paint and the slanderous schitd you've put out there about our troops...no doubt that Big Red Ego wouldn't allow you to do anything of the sort, but be careful with what you say. Just sayin'.

No one can support a guy like Donald Trump—a vulgar, dishonest, moronic Birther with a long history of racism, bigotry, and misogyny, including numerous credible allegations of sexual harassment and assault—without being some combination of a racist, liar, bigot, moron, ignoramus, and/or misogynist. Just not possible. Does that mean every Trump supporter is all six things? Certainly not. Does it mean a Trump supporter is one or more of those things? Absolutely.

Anyone here seriously challenge that basic truth?

And remember, one thing that distinguishes Trump from some of his predecessors who were also flawed individuals (looking at you, Bill Clinton), is that Trump’s flaws are reflected in his policies and actions—racist, dishonest, bigoted, moronic, ignorant, misogynistic policies and actions.

DocBarrister

No one can support a guy like Donald Trump? Not only can they, they do and enough so that he's our Prez. I never would have believed he could win the first go 'round (remember though, it was a cream of the krapp vote) but I do in the second one. I agree with Mr. Moore:
https://www.newsweek.com/michael-moore- ... in-1479431
Am telling you, Doc, just as last time, your kind of talk (and 88's) will drive people to the booths to vote for Trump, you've got to find a different/better way. As Moore says, the Ds need to find the right candidate, they're not going to win with their bash Trump and his supporters campaign. It will backfire again and I'm feeling as if that's going to happen. How 'bout that economy, eh? Just sayin'.

Do you believe Trump has expanded his base of support? If so, by what measure or is it just your gut?

[DMac]

Yes I do, mostly gut feeling but I also believe people are willing to live with his ways because of the strong economy, ultimately that is what's MOST important to them. I also think the D party comes across as a weak and whining party and is yet to find the right candidate who comes across as a competent, charismatic, winner that people can get behind (not a lesser of two evils type). I don't think the impeachment helped the Ds out much either. From what I saw, I thought the Rs did a pretty good job of stating their case about whether or not it was/is justified (not saying I agree with them). I do believe that his re-eletion is more than a slim possibly at this point. Ds better get it together if they want to win, IMO.

[seacoaster]

Yes I do, mostly gut feeling but I also believe people are willing to live with his ways because of the strong economy, ultimately that is what's MOST important to them. I also think the D party comes across as a weak and whining party and is yet to find the right candidate who comes across as a competent, charismatic, winner that people can get behind (not a lesser of two evils type). I don't think the impeachment helped the Ds out much either. From what I saw, I thought the Rs did a pretty good job of stating their case about whether or not it was/is justified (not saying I agree with them). I do believe that his re-eletion is more than a slim possibly at this point. Ds better get it together if they want to win, IMO.

I don't disagree with much of this. I have thought since the results in November 2016 that polling around Trump and about Trump has to be seen as suspicious, if only to mean that the degree of error is considerably larger than, say, a poll about what type of salsa folks like. People pretend they don't support Trump, because it is socially uncomfortable.

I guess my points of disagreement are these: First, the Democrats and getting their sh*t together. I do think they will, but coalescence around a candidate is just going to take some time, and the marketplace of ideas will stay open longer. After Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, the pack will thin to two or three, and we'll have our rivals: Trump and someone.

Second, I think it is really hard to assess the degree to which, if at all, the Democrats in Congress helped electoral chances in the Presidential race and down ticket. I genuinely think that many, perhaps most, Americans believe that the Democrats and Justin Amash had no choice but to impeach him for the Ukraine business and his non-response to the impeachment inquiry. The polling seems to suggest this -- but them you go back to the problems of polling on a question that involves the Commander-in-Tweet. The so-called center -- whatever that means in today's psycho-tribal world -- will make that decision, because the committed Democrats and committed Trump supporters have already voted.

Finally, I agree with you DMac that excoriating Trump's base as idiots, etc., is not a good strategy for much of anything. But that's what comes of living in our echo chambers and gerrymandered districts.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yes I do, mostly gut feeling but I also believe people are willing to live with his ways because of the strong economy, ultimately that is what's MOST important to them. I also think the D party comes across as a weak and whining party and is yet to find the right candidate who comes across as a competent, charismatic, winner that people can get behind (not a lesser of two evils type). I don't think the impeachment helped the Ds out much either. From what I saw, I thought the Rs did a pretty good job of stating their case about whether or not it was/is justified (not saying I agree with them). I do believe that his re-eletion is more than a slim possibly at this point. Ds better get it together if they want to win, IMO.

The strength of the economy is in blue states, for the most part. Trump’s stock market returns won’t ever catch Obama’s. I believe people vote for other reasons with Trump. It will come
Down to turnout. I am just not sure. Incumbent has advantages but not sure there will be a “worse” candidate than Hillary and not sure Russian voter suppression efforts will be as effective. Jim Jordan is dead weight in central and northeast Ohio.

EDIT: Also not sure if Wikileaks will be in a position to time the release of damaging emails whenever Trump fades. It was so close last time that its hard for me to make a call one way or another. His rally’s don’t have the energy they had last time around. Time will tell.

[DMac]

Finally, I agree with you DMac that excoriating Trump's base as idiots, etc., is not a good strategy for much of anything. But that's what comes of living in our echo chambers and gerrymandered districts.

Case in point, sc, never did I think I would as much as utter the words that I'd as much as consider voting for Trump but I did. Driven by 88's nonsense, just to stick it in his (and those who spread that kind of trash) asz.
When was the last time you saw SClax post and what motivated him to post now? Same deal there.
The DocBees of the world need to find a different way to attack this time around or they'll lose again the way I see it.

[old salt]

Watching the "highlights" from the (D) debates, it's no longer a mystery why Trump was able to win the (R) nomination.
He mocked & made fun of the entire process.
An unknowable % of the population is simply fed up with the phony status quo.
They hold pollsters in the same low regard they have for the MSM.

Dmac's right -- the more strident & whacko the (D)'s become, the more voters will vote for Trump, just to shut them up.

It matters most in the rust belt swing states, which have been left behind. Trump is playing their tune.
It doesn't matter that he hasn't delivered yet. He hears them & he's pushing for what they need, in a noisy, visible way.
Trumpism is not a catalyst, it's a reaction.

[ggait]

Case in point, sc, never did I think I would as much as utter the words that I'd as much as consider voting for Trump but I did. Driven by 88's nonsense, just to stick it in his (and those who spread that kind of trash) asz.
When was the last time you saw SClax post and what motivated him to post now? Same deal there.
The DocBees of the world need to find a different way to attack this time around or they'll lose again the way I see it.

Voters today vote more out of hate than love. It isn't partisanship -- it is NEGATIVE partisanship that matters. I don't like my guy, but I really detest the other guy. If you view the electorate like this (as I do), here's a very intriguing piece of data.

In 2016, 18% of voters disliked both Trump and Hillary. That demo voted 23% third party, 47% Trump and only 30% Hillary. That's probably the election right there.

Current polls say 12% of voters dislike both Trump and Biden. That demo says 9% won't vote, 10% will go third party, 22% Trump, and 55% (!!) Biden.

Lots of people hate Dems, but Trump is the greatest of all time in being disliked. In 2016, the tie went strongly to Trump. So if the tie really goes that strongly to Biden in 2020 -- game over.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Case in point, sc, never did I think I would as much as utter the words that I'd as much as consider voting for Trump but I did. Driven by 88's nonsense, just to stick it in his (and those who spread that kind of trash) asz.
When was the last time you saw SClax post and what motivated him to post now? Same deal there.
The DocBees of the world need to find a different way to attack this time around or they'll lose again the way I see it.

Voters today vote more out of hate than love. It isn't partisanship -- it is NEGATIVE partisanship that matters. I don't like my guy, but I really detest the other guy. If you view the electorate like this (as I do), here's a very intriguing piece of data.

In 2016, 18% of voters disliked both Trump and Hillary. That demo voted 23% third party, 47% Trump and only 30% Hillary. That's probably the election right there.

Current polls say 12% of voters dislike both Trump and Biden. That demo says 9% won't vote, 10% will go third party, 22% Trump, and 55% (!!) Biden.

Lots of people hate Dems, but Trump is the greatest of all time in being disliked. In 2016, the tie went strongly to Trump. So if the tie really goes that strongly to Biden in 2020 -- game over.

I know too many people that gave him the benefit of the doubt and realize now he is what he is. A protest vote and then will go back to normal in the 2024 election. The nation has figured out what people that have known him for years already knew. Complete idiot that without Daddy’s money and guarantee, he would be a nobody. He knows it too.

Edit: my wife could not stand Hillary Clinton. She didn’t like Trump. Now she really dislikes him. She would now vote for anyone but Trump first. Lots of people like that.

[MDlaxfan76]

....
On the other hand, at least those Trump supporters who I know best, including family members and close friends of mine, are not full blown racists, bigots, misogynists, etc. Indeed, they exhibit countervailing tendencies as well. It's more of an ignorance of the depth of these issues, the reality of these issues, than actual dislike of others. It's more about limited experience, usually.

.....

LMFAO

You just proved DMac’s point, and you don’t even realize it. SMH.

So those who’ll vote for Trump aren’t “full blown”, they’re just a little bit. And they’re that way because they’re ignorant, and lack experience.

Trump supporters are digging in their heels when they hear this, and they hear and see this every time they turn on their tv or go on-line.

And you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think people who’d never vote for Trump based on his policies and personal liabilities won’t vote for him because they’re sick and tired of hearing intellectual elitists saying some of their friends and relatives are racist, bigots, etc. - even if it’s only a little bit.

BTW, you’re also kidding yourself if you think you’re not one of those intellectual elitists. You prove it every time you remind us of your Ivy League connections, the boards your on, or the people with whom you’ve rubbed elbows.

Actually, I think you just made my point.

I agreed with DMac that telling folks they’re racist and bigoted etc is never going to win them over. And that includes my family and friends.

So, that’s not my tack in discussions with them; I’d try to appeal to their better angels whenever possible, but mostly I just try to listen.

However, that doesn’t mean that Doc is wrong in his assessment of the reality that folks willing to overlook Trump’s issues, indeed to join with those I actually would describe as ‘full blown, do so because these issues do not bother them... because they actually share many of these prejudices, if only at a lesser degree.

I don’t know you, so I certainly can’t judge your heart, but I do know my friends and family and where they come from.

Btw, I never bring up where I went to school on the political threads, that’s always brought up by those who hate ‘elitists’ and want to tar me with the label. I have brought up my involvement with ICJS when actually relevant to discussion of religious bigotry.

But sure, by some definitions I can be described as ‘intellectual’ and ‘elite’. I don’t think that makes me a better person, a more honorable man, a more valuable human being...I hope I resist being arrogant or snobby or any number of negatives that I assume you mean by the label. I’m sure I fail in that from time to time.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Members of Navy SEAL team called Eddie Gallagher "evil"





Chilling new details have emerged about the conduct of the Navy SEAL who was accused of war crimes but supported by President Trump. Confidential footage obtained by The New York Times shows members of SEAL team 7 being interviewed about the conduct of special operations chief Edward Gallagher. CBS News national security correspondent David Martin joined CBSN with more.



"standards" - hmmmm .....

I see Gallagher’s attorney on TV saying that his SEAL team members were cowards in combat. Interesting.

[old salt]

Members of Navy SEAL team called Eddie Gallagher "evil"





Chilling new details have emerged about the conduct of the Navy SEAL who was accused of war crimes but supported by President Trump. Confidential footage obtained by The New York Times shows members of SEAL team 7 being interviewed about the conduct of special operations chief Edward Gallagher. CBS News national security correspondent David Martin joined CBSN with more.

"standards" - hmmmm .....

I see Gallagher’s attorney on TV saying that his SEAL team members were cowards in combat. Interesting.

Deceptive, attention seeking reporting by CBS news, intended to trick viewers who have not followed the details of this story.
What "chilling new details have emerged" that were not heard by the members of the Court at trial ?
This is just trial evidence that has been leaked.
This is just a gimmick to retry Chief Gallagher in the media, & discredit him, before he can campaign for Trump