Orange Duce

[kramerica.inc]

The circle game has been around for decades. We used to play it in ms and hs too...dumb yes. But fun as hell to play.

Seeing as supremacists commandeered this game a few mos ago I ask- if white supremacists commandeer other common, gestures and images, say a handshake or a reversed flag (like on a right arm military patch) do we ban those too?

Why or why not?

Cu88?

[MDlaxfan76]

Just in case you haven't seen this, CU88.
No white supremecy courses offered at the academies.
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/79022994 ... tary-finds

It is pervasive in the US military, they try to keep it hidden, loving their swamp.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... a-demoted/

Any they now want to make it easier to get more like minded racists in their ranks:

Senate removes phrase 'white nationalist' from measure intended to screen military enlistees

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/politics ... index.html

Is it ok to recruit nationalists of color, willing to fight for our country ?

I very much doubt that this sort of ideology (white supremacy) is actually 'pervasive' in the military, though it would be interesting to know whether it is more or less represented than in our society as a whole. It would not be a surprise, right? simply based on demographics? And there's undoubtedly a very significant strain of this sort of thinking in society as a whole.

As to your question, yeah, if a recruit called themselves a 'nationalist plus color or religion' I'd sure as heck want to know what they meant. It'd be a red flag to look harder at where they are psychologically. I'd say the same for police or anyone else with a uniform and gun.

I understand that many folks might, in response to a question, say, 'sure, I'm a nationalist', interpreting that question as "Are you a patriot, willing to fight for your country" sort of thing. They may well misunderstand the meaning of 'nationalist', its history, and most importantly how that word has been appropriated by the extreme, but I wouldn't be concerned if they exhibited an openness to diversity otherwise. In other words, I'd look closer.

But if someone was willing to proclaim themselves a 'white nationalist', you betcha I'd be concerned.
Or any other ethnic, racial, religious "nationalist".

Let's be clear, we are indeed seeing a major surge in white supremacist/white nationalist ideology here in the US and similar ideology worldwide. It's coming way out of the shadows. And its very violent.

The violence is thankfully still fringe but the support for the ideology is actually quite large and it's been given permission and powerful means to be spread.

So, it's a very serious issue.

That said, the military has a history of bringing folks of very diverse views and backgrounds into contact with one another under adversity and those experiences being quite beneficial to their personal growth and respect for one another.

But the military, from the top down, needs to set standards and expectations that enable and encourage this personal growth, not the opposite.

There really should be no tolerance for extremist views, much less discriminatory behaviors.

And the hard truth is that white nationalist/white supremacist views are indeed extreme and far more prevalent than we would hope in 2019.

Naming it as an issue matters. Conversely, claiming that it doesn't matter sends the opposite signal...which I'd suggest is what the White House wants.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Just in case you haven't seen this, CU88.
No white supremecy courses offered at the academies.
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/79022994 ... tary-finds

It is pervasive in the US military, they try to keep it hidden, loving their swamp.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... a-demoted/

Any they now want to make it easier to get more like minded racists in their ranks:

Senate removes phrase 'white nationalist' from measure intended to screen military enlistees

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/politics ... index.html

Is it ok to recruit nationalists of color, willing to fight for our country ?

Able bodied recruits here:



Next stop would be a Nation of Islam or Black Israelite rally.

[DMac]

MDlax, you'll probably remember a couple/few years back the Navy did away with rate designations...radarman, signalman, sonarman, radioman, etc...everyone was going to be a generic sailor as it was just the right PC thing to do. 100% of the Navy people on here (which there were more of at the time) called it out for the horseschidt and chickenschidt move that it was. PC gone amuck. Many people who had/have no military experience came on and backed the move up, called it the right thing to do and tried to defend it.
It wasn't too long after when the Navy went back to rate designations just the way it always had been. They went back beause of the push back they got from the people actually in the Navy who took some pride in their designation, ribbons, and other pins they had earned. The ex military people here were completely in tune with the people still on active duty. 100% of the ex military people here call the white supremacy/white nationalist stuff as being prevelant in the military and/or being taught at the academies as fabricated horseschidt. Believe what they're saying.

[MDlaxfan76]

The circle game has been around for decades. We used to play it in ms and hs too...dumb yes. But fun as hell to play.

Seeing as supremacists commandeered this game a few mos ago I ask- if white supremacists commandeer other common, gestures and images, say a handshake or a reversed flag (like on a right arm military patch) do we ban those too?

Why or why not?

Cu88?

The ADL does not suggest banning the gesture and warns against misinterpretation.
https://www.adl.org/education/reference ... nd-gesture

However, as I said before, at best, these young men would have to be total morons not to be aware of how the gesture could be interpreted.
But immaturity can indeed overcome good sense.

[MDlaxfan76]

MDlax, you'll probably remember a couple/few years back the Navy did away with rate designations...radarman, signalman, sonarman, radioman, etc...everyone was going to be a generic sailor as it was just the right PC thing to do. 100% of the Navy people on here (which there were more of at the time) called it out for the horseschidt and chickenschidt move that it was. PC gone amuck. Many people who had/have no military experience came on and backed the move up, called it the right thing to do and tried to defend it.
It wasn't too long after when the Navy went back to rate designations just the way it always had been. They went back beause of the push back they got from the people actually in the Navy who took some pride in their designation, ribbons, and other pins they had earned. The ex military people here were completely in tune with the people still on active duty. 100% of the ex military people here call the white supremacy/white nationalist stuff as being prevelant in the military and/or being taught at the academies as fabricated horseschidt. Believe what they're saying.

I'm not ex-military (have quite a bit of military in my family though) and I'm not suggesting that it is "pervasive".
However, does it exist? You betcha. Of course.

What's the degree of such that it meets "prevalent"? As in "common or widespread"?
Well, it's probably "widespread" as in not concentrated in any particular service, but "common" is more subjective.

I do think we can fairly say that the belief set underlying white supremacy, ie the whites are superior, genetically, culturally, or otherwise, relative to other races and ethnicities is indeed pretty darn 'common' in our society, even in 2019. Not a majority, but not at all difficult to find.

It bubbles out into view in all sorts of ways, sometimes quite overtly, but usually in ways that are just ignorant. Of more concern, actually, are the intellectual arguments around "Western Civilization" or "American Exceptionalism" or more bluntly "America is a Christian Nation" or "Illegal Aliens or Mexicans are rapists and murderers". These are all masking various notions of superiority tied to ethnicity.

We have a long history of such in America.

So, sure, we're going to find these sorts of views in those entering the military.
I'd like to think that the military experience helps expose people to one another, in ways that they depend upon one another, that helps change minds. Certainly that's been the case historically. You'd likely be in a far better position to attest to how that may be working today.

And of course that sort of hate ideology is not being "taught" at the military academies. Funny thing is that I'm not so sure anyone actually claimed such other than perhaps with a big tongue-in-cheek. But you guys grind on it as if someone truly believed it to be the case.

As to "PC", clearly some such efforts are misguided, however well-intentioned as they may have been.

I didn't participate in the discussion about rate designations, really didn't ever even hit my radar screen. So, I googled.

Here's the initial explanation: https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... -shake-up/

And here's the reversal less than three months later: https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... tles-back/

Pretty darn quick turnaround.
Sounds like they had some larger goals in mind that were getting distracted by the pushback on this particular mechanism.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The idea that “ain’t nothing wrong with white nationalism” is just more gaslighting. Never forget.

[old salt]

There's nothing wrong with nationalism, no matter the color of the nationalist.

It's a perversion of language to paint white people who aren't sufficiently woke as white supremacists.

otay

[DMac]

Just in case you haven't seen this, CU88.
No white supremecy courses offered at the academies.
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/79022994 ... tary-finds

It is pervasive in the US military, they try to keep it hidden, loving their swamp.
This is not tongue in cheek, it's talking out your asz and spreading falsehoods.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... a-demoted/

Any they now want to make it easier to get more like minded racists in their ranks:

Senate removes phrase 'white nationalist' from measure intended to screen military enlistees


https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/politics ... index.html

More from CU88.

CU88 wrote,
Looks like the military is training White Power...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... -students/

[MDlaxfan76]

Just in case you haven't seen this, CU88.
No white supremecy courses offered at the academies.
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/79022994 ... tary-finds

It is pervasive in the US military, they try to keep it hidden, loving their swamp.
This is not tongue in cheek, it's talking out your asz and spreading falsehoods.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... a-demoted/

Any they now want to make it easier to get more like minded racists in their ranks:

Senate removes phrase 'white nationalist' from measure intended to screen military enlistees


https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/politics ... index.html

I'll let CU88 explain what he means by "pervasive", I disagreed, given the definition "existing in or spreading through every part of something."
"every part", I think is a bridge too far. He may well see it differently, but I suspect he was tweaking you guys a bit.

I don't disagree with him about the White House's intent.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There's nothing wrong with nationalism, no matter the color of the nationalist.

It's a perversion of language to paint white people who aren't sufficiently woke as white supremacists.

otay

sho’ is mo’ gaslightin’

[MDlaxfan76]

There's nothing wrong with nationalism, no matter the color of the nationalist.

It's a perversion of language to paint white people who aren't sufficiently woke as white supremacists.

otay

We've had this discussion before.
On its face, "nationalist" doesn't sound bad.
"a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations."

It's that second part of the definition that has proven to be the source of so many wars in the past.

But if someone merely means that they love their country and are willing to fight, possibly die, to defend it, no problem.
No issues, regardless of color.

But if they mean that they are willing to do things not merely in defense of their country (and its allies) but rather mean that they will do whatever their "ruler" tells them to do in the name of their country's interests...

But you know darn well that's not even the issue at hand...we're talking about someone actually self-identifying as "white nationalist", not a patriotic person who happens to be white.

Pretty ridiculous for you to argue otherwise.
But, hey, consistent with what Vlad wants, so all good, right?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/fyi/story ... 2017-04-25

[MDlaxfan76]

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/fyi/story ... 2017-04-25

Quite good explanation; thanks.

[CU88]

Leaked chat logs have connected seven current members of the U.S. armed forces to a white nationalist group,..


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-na ... mg00000004

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ity-evropa

[old salt]

Were nationalist movements against colonial rule a good thing or a bad thing ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Were nationalist movements against colonial rule a good thing or a bad thing ?

Are nationalist movements against American citizens a good thing or bad thing?

[DMac]

Leaked chat logs have connected seven current members of the U.S. armed forces to a white nationalist group,..


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-na ... mg00000004

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ity-evropa

OMFG!!!!! If you don't already have a closet full of weapons and a schidtload of ammo you better hurry and go get some. These seven military guys who are under investigation will be hunting you down, so a word to the wise...hide the women and children too.
There's in the neighborhood of one and a half million members in the military.
You figure you've got a little bit of everything in there just as you do in the civilian population?
Keep spreading your sensationalized bullschidt, 88, but know you're being played like a fiddle and biting like a sucker.

[old salt]

Were nationalist movements against colonial rule a good thing or a bad thing ?

Are nationalist movements against American citizens a good thing or bad thing?

They are a figment of you TDS addled imagination.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Were nationalist movements against colonial rule a good thing or a bad thing ?

Are nationalist movements against American citizens a good thing or bad thing?

They are a figment of you TDS addled imagination.

Thanks.....https://time.com/5647304/white-national ... /?amp=true

https://neaedjustice.org/2019/10/04/edu ... n-schools/

https://news.uchicago.edu/podcasts/big- ... leen-belew

You are also wrong about standing up to Russia no longer mattered after 1991. Delusional and addle brained.