https://news.usni.org/2019/11/25/secdef ... more-71539
Trump let the Navy know by a tweet he did not want the Navy to move forward with holding a review board comprised of other non-commissioned officers in December that could have stripped Gallagher of his Naval Special Warfare designation – his trident.
Spencer in public statements maintained the review process should be allowed to run its course, telling Reuters a review of Gallagher’s rating should continue, despite the tweet from Trump.
“I believe the process matters for good order and discipline,” Spencer said in remarks that were confirmed by a Navy spokesperson to USNI News. “I think we have a process in place, which we’re going forward with, and that’s my job.”
When speaking with reporters Monday, Esper said he and Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, had agreed the review process should play out as intended. When leaving a meeting at the White House on Friday, though, Esper said he and Milley were told by a senior staffer how Spencer proposed a deal where in exchange for Trump remaining quiet about the Navy’s pending review, he’d guarantee Gallagher would retain his trident.
“We were flabbergasted by it and quite surprised and caught completely off guard,” Esper said. “This proposal was completely contrary to what we had agreed to and contrary to Secretary Spencer’s public position.”
Esper added he asked Spencer how he intended to rig the review board but did not get an answer.
“If that board of NCOs had come up with a different reason, who was going to be asked to change it? And that’s my issue,” Esper said.
In an attempt to help the SEAL community and the Navy move on from the Gallagher case, Esper said Gallagher would be allowed to retire at the end of November with his trident. As for the status of other special warfare operators who were to undergo reviews, Esper said he asked the Navy leadership study options.
“It is also my view that the issue should not be thrown in the laps of a board of senior NCOs to sort out. As professional as they are, no matter what they would decide, they would be criticized from many sides, which would further drag this issue on, dividing this institution,” Esper said. “I want the SEALs and the Navy to move beyond this now and get fully focused on their warfighting mission.”
Orange Duce
Re: Orange Duce
Re: Orange Duce
Re: Orange Duce
Big Navy chose the wrong case to take a stand.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:07 pmhttps://news.usni.org/2019/11/25/secdef ... more-71539
Trump let the Navy know by a tweet he did not want the Navy to move forward with holding a review board comprised of other non-commissioned officers in December that could have stripped Gallagher of his Naval Special Warfare designation – his trident.
Spencer in public statements maintained the review process should be allowed to run its course, telling Reuters a review of Gallagher’s rating should continue, despite the tweet from Trump.
“I believe the process matters for good order and discipline,” Spencer said in remarks that were confirmed by a Navy spokesperson to USNI News. “I think we have a process in place, which we’re going forward with, and that’s my job.”
When speaking with reporters Monday, Esper said he and Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, had agreed the review process should play out as intended. When leaving a meeting at the White House on Friday, though, Esper said he and Milley were told by a senior staffer how Spencer proposed a deal where in exchange for Trump remaining quiet about the Navy’s pending review, he’d guarantee Gallagher would retain his trident.
“We were flabbergasted by it and quite surprised and caught completely off guard,” Esper said. “This proposal was completely contrary to what we had agreed to and contrary to Secretary Spencer’s public position.”
Esper added he asked Spencer how he intended to rig the review board but did not get an answer.
“If that board of NCOs had come up with a different reason, who was going to be asked to change it? And that’s my issue,” Esper said.
In an attempt to help the SEAL community and the Navy move on from the Gallagher case, Esper said Gallagher would be allowed to retire at the end of November with his trident. As for the status of other special warfare operators who were to undergo reviews, Esper said he asked the Navy leadership study options.
“It is also my view that the issue should not be thrown in the laps of a board of senior NCOs to sort out. As professional as they are, no matter what they would decide, they would be criticized from many sides, which would further drag this issue on, dividing this institution,” Esper said. “I want the SEALs and the Navy to move beyond this now and get fully focused on their warfighting mission.”
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... for-trump/
Apparently the Trident Review Board process is not as formal a process as Admin Boards which remove an officer warfare designation, such as pilot or submariner.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... stead.html
Re: Orange Duce
It would have played out quietly had Spencer not played cutesy with his media statements, shut up, & worked within his chain of command.
Esper & Milley were working it when Spencer blind sided them.
SecDef's right -- you don't dump this mess into the laps of a bunch of senior NCO's to unravel.
Admiral Green is usurping this authority from his SEAL Team Commanding Officers.https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... stead.html
Navy regulations require officers to appear before boards if leaders feel they no longer warrant special devices.
Enlisted SEALs can have their tridents directly revoked by a commanding officer.
The review boards, according to a Navy personnel policy, consist of at least three officers qualified in naval special warfare in the grade of captain or above. The board's written recommendations are forwarded to the head of Naval Special Warfare Command for final endorsement and routing.
Re: Orange Duce
It would have played out quietly if we didn't have someone with the iq of a teenager in the White House.
You don't tweet to our freaking military leaders like you're a 13 year old that's telling his buddies his deep thoughts about a new flavor of Doritos.
The leader of the free world is tweeting-----tweeting----orders to our military leaders.
Stop acting like this is normal. Stop acting like this is ok. And stop blaming the adults who have to figure out what his infantile tweets mean for the consequences of letting a child near his phone after beddy-bye time.
If Trumpy wants a chair at the big boy table, great. Be a man, and give your orders like a man.
I don't give my orders to my crew via social media. And I run a dinky company. What the heck is the guy who is in charge of our nuclear arsenal doing tweeting orders to our troops?
More to my point, for the love of everything holy-----it's been three years, oid salt. How many more years are you going to defend this guy?
You don't tweet to our freaking military leaders like you're a 13 year old that's telling his buddies his deep thoughts about a new flavor of Doritos.
The leader of the free world is tweeting-----tweeting----orders to our military leaders.
Stop acting like this is normal. Stop acting like this is ok. And stop blaming the adults who have to figure out what his infantile tweets mean for the consequences of letting a child near his phone after beddy-bye time.
If Trumpy wants a chair at the big boy table, great. Be a man, and give your orders like a man.
I don't give my orders to my crew via social media. And I run a dinky company. What the heck is the guy who is in charge of our nuclear arsenal doing tweeting orders to our troops?
More to my point, for the love of everything holy-----it's been three years, oid salt. How many more years are you going to defend this guy?
Re: Orange Duce
...or instead of being acquitted, Chief Gallagher would be spending the rest of his life in Leavenworth, ...not that that matters.a fan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:37 pm It would have played out quietly if we didn't have someone with the iq of a teenager in the White House.
You don't tweet to our freaking military leaders like you're a 13 year old that's telling his buddies his deep thoughts about a new flavor of Doritos.
The leader of the free world is tweeting-----tweeting----orders to our military leaders.
Stop acting like this is normal. Stop acting like this is ok. And stop blaming the adults who have to figure out what his infantile tweets mean for the consequences of letting a child near his phone after beddy-bye time.
If Trumpy wants a chair at the big boy table, great. Be a man, and give your orders like a man.
I don't give my orders to my crew via social media. And I run a dinky company. What the heck is the guy who is in charge of our nuclear arsenal doing tweeting orders to our troops?
More to my point, for the love of everything holy-----it's been three years, oid salt. How many more years are you going to defend this guy?
Big Navy was stupid trying to punish him via a non-punitive admin board, after their ill advised prosecution fell apart.
How did they think Trump would respond. Esper & Milley get it.
Re: Orange Duce
By way of contrast, this is what's involved in pulling a Naval Aviator's wings.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:22 pmIt would have played out quietly had Spencer not played cutesy with his media statements, shut up, & worked within his chain of command.
Esper & Milley were working it when Spencer blind sided them.
SecDef's right -- you don't dump this mess into the laps of a bunch of senior NCO's to unravel.Admiral Green is usurping this authority from his SEAL Team Commanding Officers.https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... stead.html
Navy regulations require officers to appear before boards if leaders feel they no longer warrant special devices.
Enlisted SEALs can have their tridents directly revoked by a commanding officer.
The review boards, according to a Navy personnel policy, consist of at least three officers qualified in naval special warfare in the grade of captain or above. The board's written recommendations are forwarded to the head of Naval Special Warfare Command for final endorsement and routing.
https://www.airwarriors.com/community/t ... way.38050/
Re: Orange Duce
I don't know the first thing about this case. I'm rightly po'ed that Trump is tweeting about this.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:40 pm ...or instead of being acquitted, Chief Gallagher would be spending the rest of his life in Leavenworth, ...not that that matters.
Big Navy was stupid trying to punish him via a non-punitive admin board, after their ill advised prosecution fell apart.
How did they think Trump would respond. Esper & Milley get it.
As I said, if Trump wants to sit at the big boy table and meddle in the case? Great. Have at it. He's the man.
Just put the stupid phone down, call your Sec of Defense in, and give your orders with some modicum of seriousness.
Re: Orange Duce
In this case. Trump was serious & consistent, from the start.a fan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:48 pmI don't know the first thing about this case. I'm rightly po'ed that Trump is tweeting about this.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:40 pm ...or instead of being acquitted, Chief Gallagher would be spending the rest of his life in Leavenworth, ...not that that matters.
Big Navy was stupid trying to punish him via a non-punitive admin board, after their ill advised prosecution fell apart.
How did they think Trump would respond. Esper & Milley get it.
As I said, if Trump wants to sit at the big boy table and meddle in the case? Great. Have at it. He's the man.
Just put the stupid phone down, call your Sec of Defense in, and give your orders with some modicum of seriousness.
Ask the former SecNav if the CinC was serious.
If Spencer needed it in writing, he should have consulted with Esper about it, not played cutesy with the media.
He jumped the chain of command & undercut his boss.
What he did was borderline insubordinate & politically stupid.
Ironic post script :
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... t-scandal/
Plot twist: What none of the parties knew was that minutes before the Pentagon announced Esper’s decision, Gallagher told his attorney, Timothy Parlatore, that he had decided to voluntarily relinquish his trident for the good of the SEALs, the president and the country, believing that he unwittingly had become a lightning rod for criticism and partisan division.
Shortly after Gallagher told Parlatore to write the letter, his attorney received word that Esper had decided to let him retain the pin.
In fact, Navy Times had to scrap a story about the letter when the Pentagon statement arrived.
“This isn’t a twist any of us saw coming,” Parlatore told Navy Times. "From the beginning, my primary responsibility was to save Eddie Gallagher’s life, then to save his reputation, but Eddie Gallagher loves the Navy and he loves the SEAL teams. He’s been falsely accused of attacking the institution, but it’s an institution we both love and want to improve.
“With this personnel change, this institution will improve and no one will go through the ordeal Eddie went through. At the end of the day, the most important duty any of us have is protecting America.”
Parlatore added, “This case is completely bananas.”
Although Gallagher was accused of a string of war crimes tied to a 2017 deployment with Alpha Platoon, SEAL Team 7 — including the murder of a wounded Islamic State prisoner of war — a court-martial panel of his peers in July acquitted him of every charge except the one that the he never denied, posing next to a dead detainee alongside a dozen other service members who were never charged with any crimes.
Had the offense not appeared at a general court-martial trial, it likely would’ve been handled administratively, perhaps with little more than a verbal reprimand before Gallagher retired after two decades of service.
Instead, it was the legal flotsam left after the military jury washed away what was left of the Navy’s failed case against him.
Before Gallagher’s court-martial trial even kicked off, Navy judge Capt. Aaron Rugh sanctioned the prosecution for repeatedly violating Gallagher’s constitutional rights.
Part of Rugh’s punishment included booting Cmdr. Christopher Czaplak, the lead prosecutor, for his role in a warrantless surveillance program cooked up with Naval Criminal Investigative Service agents to track emails sent by defense attorneys and also to Navy Times.
They were accused of manipulating witness statements to NCIS agents; using immunity grants and a bogus “target letter” in a crude attempt to keep potential pro-Gallagher witnesses from testifying; illegally leaking documents to the media to taint the military jury pool; and then trying to cover it all up when they got caught.
In the end, the jurors recommended that Gallagher be demoted to petty officer first class, a verdict upheld by Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday but overturned by Trump.
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- Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm
Re: Orange Duce
I understand that the Trump campaign is now asking the military men he pardoned or on whose behalf he interceded to come and campaign for the President's reelection. Nice use of the powers of the office. Today, ho hum....
The Post, on the increasing degradation of talent and ethics within the White House as the President cycles through his list of actors and understudies:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
"The Trump presidency has entered a dangerous new phase. Administration officials who had some scruples have given way to men (yes, only men) whose first priority seems to be retaining their jobs. Because the chief requirement for that is personal loyalty to the president, who has shown himself to be without scruple, decency or respect for the Constitution, the result is the progressive erosion of core institutions.
During the first years of the administration, there was considerable debate over the role of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein. Critics said these “grown-ups in the room” were giving a sheen of normalcy to a presidency that was shattering norms. Defenders said they were erecting guardrails — keeping President Trump at least in some cases from acting on his worst instincts.
We tended toward the latter view. Mr. Sessions properly recused himself from the Russia probe and refused to un-recuse, while neither he nor his deputy would fire special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. Mattis helped keep alliances on track and slow-walked some of the more outlandish demands, such as for a vanity-driven military parade. As Post columnist Michael Gerson colorfully put it, “If you are a national security official working for a malignant, infantile, impulsive, authoritarian wannabe, you need to stay in your job as long as you can to mitigate whatever damage you can — before the mad king tires of your sanity and fires you.”
The wisdom of that view is being borne out by the administration’s second act. It may be that Attorney General William P. Barr, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper and acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney also are protecting the country from Mr. Trump’s whims and grudges in ways that we cannot see.
But what we do see suggests they are playing the role of enablers of constitutional degradation: From the Justice Department, the dishonest rollout of Mr. Mueller’s report, or the politically driven threat of an antitrust lawsuit against car makers who anger the president by negotiating clear-air standards with California. At State, an abject failure to stand up for honorable Foreign Service officers slandered for doing their jobs honorably. At the White House, a willingness to encourage, and then lie about, the abuse of foreign-policy powers in service of personal political interests. At the Pentagon, a refusal to stand up to Mr. Trump’s malign interference in the military justice process. And this is not an exhaustive list.
Ultimately, of course, the president enjoys a great deal of power, and no staff person can be insubordinate. Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley recently leveled a self-serving attack on Mr. Kelly and Mr. Tillerson for supposedly “undermining” the president, but her prescription wasn’t all wrong. “It should’ve been, ‘Go tell the president what your differences are, and quit if you don’t like what he’s doing.’ ” Now, Mr. Trump seems to have found courtiers who neither look to mitigate his worst instincts nor have the courage to tell him when he is wrong. You wonder what kind of pride they will be able to take in their service once it is all over."
The Post, on the increasing degradation of talent and ethics within the White House as the President cycles through his list of actors and understudies:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
"The Trump presidency has entered a dangerous new phase. Administration officials who had some scruples have given way to men (yes, only men) whose first priority seems to be retaining their jobs. Because the chief requirement for that is personal loyalty to the president, who has shown himself to be without scruple, decency or respect for the Constitution, the result is the progressive erosion of core institutions.
During the first years of the administration, there was considerable debate over the role of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein. Critics said these “grown-ups in the room” were giving a sheen of normalcy to a presidency that was shattering norms. Defenders said they were erecting guardrails — keeping President Trump at least in some cases from acting on his worst instincts.
We tended toward the latter view. Mr. Sessions properly recused himself from the Russia probe and refused to un-recuse, while neither he nor his deputy would fire special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. Mattis helped keep alliances on track and slow-walked some of the more outlandish demands, such as for a vanity-driven military parade. As Post columnist Michael Gerson colorfully put it, “If you are a national security official working for a malignant, infantile, impulsive, authoritarian wannabe, you need to stay in your job as long as you can to mitigate whatever damage you can — before the mad king tires of your sanity and fires you.”
The wisdom of that view is being borne out by the administration’s second act. It may be that Attorney General William P. Barr, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper and acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney also are protecting the country from Mr. Trump’s whims and grudges in ways that we cannot see.
But what we do see suggests they are playing the role of enablers of constitutional degradation: From the Justice Department, the dishonest rollout of Mr. Mueller’s report, or the politically driven threat of an antitrust lawsuit against car makers who anger the president by negotiating clear-air standards with California. At State, an abject failure to stand up for honorable Foreign Service officers slandered for doing their jobs honorably. At the White House, a willingness to encourage, and then lie about, the abuse of foreign-policy powers in service of personal political interests. At the Pentagon, a refusal to stand up to Mr. Trump’s malign interference in the military justice process. And this is not an exhaustive list.
Ultimately, of course, the president enjoys a great deal of power, and no staff person can be insubordinate. Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley recently leveled a self-serving attack on Mr. Kelly and Mr. Tillerson for supposedly “undermining” the president, but her prescription wasn’t all wrong. “It should’ve been, ‘Go tell the president what your differences are, and quit if you don’t like what he’s doing.’ ” Now, Mr. Trump seems to have found courtiers who neither look to mitigate his worst instincts nor have the courage to tell him when he is wrong. You wonder what kind of pride they will be able to take in their service once it is all over."
- cradleandshoot
- Posts: 15476
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm
Re: Orange Duce
When it is all said and done, he is still the CiC. My opinion has been that if the Dems spent more time on winning the election and less time on the impeachment fiasco, you would not have the prospect of 4 more years of Trump. Staying with the navy theme... whatever floats your boat.seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:33 am I understand that the Trump campaign is now asking the military men he pardoned or on whose behalf he interceded to come and campaign for the President's reelection. Nice use of the powers of the office. Today, ho hum....
The Post, on the increasing degradation of talent and ethics within the White House as the President cycles through his list of actors and understudies:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
"The Trump presidency has entered a dangerous new phase. Administration officials who had some scruples have given way to men (yes, only men) whose first priority seems to be retaining their jobs. Because the chief requirement for that is personal loyalty to the president, who has shown himself to be without scruple, decency or respect for the Constitution, the result is the progressive erosion of core institutions.
During the first years of the administration, there was considerable debate over the role of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein. Critics said these “grown-ups in the room” were giving a sheen of normalcy to a presidency that was shattering norms. Defenders said they were erecting guardrails — keeping President Trump at least in some cases from acting on his worst instincts.
We tended toward the latter view. Mr. Sessions properly recused himself from the Russia probe and refused to un-recuse, while neither he nor his deputy would fire special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. Mattis helped keep alliances on track and slow-walked some of the more outlandish demands, such as for a vanity-driven military parade. As Post columnist Michael Gerson colorfully put it, “If you are a national security official working for a malignant, infantile, impulsive, authoritarian wannabe, you need to stay in your job as long as you can to mitigate whatever damage you can — before the mad king tires of your sanity and fires you.”
The wisdom of that view is being borne out by the administration’s second act. It may be that Attorney General William P. Barr, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper and acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney also are protecting the country from Mr. Trump’s whims and grudges in ways that we cannot see.
But what we do see suggests they are playing the role of enablers of constitutional degradation: From the Justice Department, the dishonest rollout of Mr. Mueller’s report, or the politically driven threat of an antitrust lawsuit against car makers who anger the president by negotiating clear-air standards with California. At State, an abject failure to stand up for honorable Foreign Service officers slandered for doing their jobs honorably. At the White House, a willingness to encourage, and then lie about, the abuse of foreign-policy powers in service of personal political interests. At the Pentagon, a refusal to stand up to Mr. Trump’s malign interference in the military justice process. And this is not an exhaustive list.
Ultimately, of course, the president enjoys a great deal of power, and no staff person can be insubordinate. Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley recently leveled a self-serving attack on Mr. Kelly and Mr. Tillerson for supposedly “undermining” the president, but her prescription wasn’t all wrong. “It should’ve been, ‘Go tell the president what your differences are, and quit if you don’t like what he’s doing.’ ” Now, Mr. Trump seems to have found courtiers who neither look to mitigate his worst instincts nor have the courage to tell him when he is wrong. You wonder what kind of pride they will be able to take in their service once it is all over."
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Bob Ross:
Re: Orange Duce
Still not time for General Mattis to speak out?
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm
Re: Orange Duce
Is that the same thing as a king?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:30 amWhen it is all said and done, he is still the CiC. My opinion has been that if the Dems spent more time on winning the election and less time on the impeachment fiasco, you would not have the prospect of 4 more years of Trump. Staying with the navy theme... whatever floats your boat.seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:33 am I understand that the Trump campaign is now asking the military men he pardoned or on whose behalf he interceded to come and campaign for the President's reelection. Nice use of the powers of the office. Today, ho hum....
The Post, on the increasing degradation of talent and ethics within the White House as the President cycles through his list of actors and understudies:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
"The Trump presidency has entered a dangerous new phase. Administration officials who had some scruples have given way to men (yes, only men) whose first priority seems to be retaining their jobs. Because the chief requirement for that is personal loyalty to the president, who has shown himself to be without scruple, decency or respect for the Constitution, the result is the progressive erosion of core institutions.
During the first years of the administration, there was considerable debate over the role of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein. Critics said these “grown-ups in the room” were giving a sheen of normalcy to a presidency that was shattering norms. Defenders said they were erecting guardrails — keeping President Trump at least in some cases from acting on his worst instincts.
We tended toward the latter view. Mr. Sessions properly recused himself from the Russia probe and refused to un-recuse, while neither he nor his deputy would fire special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. Mattis helped keep alliances on track and slow-walked some of the more outlandish demands, such as for a vanity-driven military parade. As Post columnist Michael Gerson colorfully put it, “If you are a national security official working for a malignant, infantile, impulsive, authoritarian wannabe, you need to stay in your job as long as you can to mitigate whatever damage you can — before the mad king tires of your sanity and fires you.”
The wisdom of that view is being borne out by the administration’s second act. It may be that Attorney General William P. Barr, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper and acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney also are protecting the country from Mr. Trump’s whims and grudges in ways that we cannot see.
But what we do see suggests they are playing the role of enablers of constitutional degradation: From the Justice Department, the dishonest rollout of Mr. Mueller’s report, or the politically driven threat of an antitrust lawsuit against car makers who anger the president by negotiating clear-air standards with California. At State, an abject failure to stand up for honorable Foreign Service officers slandered for doing their jobs honorably. At the White House, a willingness to encourage, and then lie about, the abuse of foreign-policy powers in service of personal political interests. At the Pentagon, a refusal to stand up to Mr. Trump’s malign interference in the military justice process. And this is not an exhaustive list.
Ultimately, of course, the president enjoys a great deal of power, and no staff person can be insubordinate. Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley recently leveled a self-serving attack on Mr. Kelly and Mr. Tillerson for supposedly “undermining” the president, but her prescription wasn’t all wrong. “It should’ve been, ‘Go tell the president what your differences are, and quit if you don’t like what he’s doing.’ ” Now, Mr. Trump seems to have found courtiers who neither look to mitigate his worst instincts nor have the courage to tell him when he is wrong. You wonder what kind of pride they will be able to take in their service once it is all over."
“I wish you would!”
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- Posts: 3219
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm
Re: Orange Duce
Since when does Trump give a fig about conventions, like chain of command.
His actions regarding "corruption in Ukraine" and Turkey invading Syria, demonstrate how little regard he has for doing anything the right way.
Re: Orange Duce
Missing from the context of all this, is that Admiral Green was also confronting recent issues within his SEAL Command back over the summer having recalled a SEAL platoon from Iraq for multiple incidents of misconduct
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 04441.html
"The head of the Navy SEALs said the special forces have a problem and is demanding change within its ranks, according to a strongly worded letter written to his command and obtained by NBC News on Friday.
In the letter, Naval Special Warfare commander Rear Adm. Collin Green said the Navy SEALs, "have a good order and discipline problem that must be addressed immediately."
Bolded and underlined, the admiral started the second paragraph with an emphatic, "We have a problem."
"Some of our subordinate formations have failed to maintain good order and discipline and as a result and for good reason, our NSW culture is being questioned," Green wrote."
So, what exactly is Admiral Green supposed to do with his command and its obvious and multiple issues with order and discipline when the CiC publicly interferes and countermands actions taken to deal with some of these overt issues by said command to enforce and maintain unit cohesion/order and discipline?
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 04441.html
"The head of the Navy SEALs said the special forces have a problem and is demanding change within its ranks, according to a strongly worded letter written to his command and obtained by NBC News on Friday.
In the letter, Naval Special Warfare commander Rear Adm. Collin Green said the Navy SEALs, "have a good order and discipline problem that must be addressed immediately."
Bolded and underlined, the admiral started the second paragraph with an emphatic, "We have a problem."
"Some of our subordinate formations have failed to maintain good order and discipline and as a result and for good reason, our NSW culture is being questioned," Green wrote."
So, what exactly is Admiral Green supposed to do with his command and its obvious and multiple issues with order and discipline when the CiC publicly interferes and countermands actions taken to deal with some of these overt issues by said command to enforce and maintain unit cohesion/order and discipline?
Re: Orange Duce
From Ana Navarro-Cardenas of CNN ( she’s a racist and hates blacks)
In referring to the accurate poll by Rasmussen and Emerson where Trump has 34 percent approval rating:
“Zero chance this is accurate. Zero. The poll must have only been conducted in the homes of Ben Carson, Kanye, that sheriff guy with the hat and those two Cubic Zirconia & Polyester-Spandex ladies.”
Proving once again Democrats are the party of racism. She literally thinks blacks can’t have their own political opinions (as do many of you on here). This is why Trump will win again.
In referring to the accurate poll by Rasmussen and Emerson where Trump has 34 percent approval rating:
“Zero chance this is accurate. Zero. The poll must have only been conducted in the homes of Ben Carson, Kanye, that sheriff guy with the hat and those two Cubic Zirconia & Polyester-Spandex ladies.”
Proving once again Democrats are the party of racism. She literally thinks blacks can’t have their own political opinions (as do many of you on here). This is why Trump will win again.
Farfromgeneva is a sissy soy boy
Re: Orange Duce
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.
Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
Re: Orange Duce
By the same token, it might have played out quietly if Trump worked within the chain of command too. He should have enough respect and understanding of the chain of command to go down it just as those serving are expected to go up it. He plays by his own rules though, ordering by tweet (so the world can see who the king is) just doesn't cut it and I'd be surprised if you don't agree with that.
Your orders are to fly your chopper to LZ3. Prez tweets I want him going to LZ5. What orders are you following?
- youthathletics
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm
Re: Orange Duce
Curious, did we know for certain that Trump did not entertain this decision with top brass or his advisers prior to his decision?DMac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:26 amBy the same token, it might have played out quietly if Trump worked within the chain of command too. He should have enough respect and understanding of the chain of command to go down it just as those serving are expected to go up it. He plays by his own rules though, ordering just doesn't cut it and I'd be surprised if you don't agree with that.
Your orders are to fly your chopper to LZ3. Prez tweets I want him going to LZ5. What orders are you following?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Re: Orange Duce
Have wondered that myself, just don't know.youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:29 amCurious, did we know for certain that Trump did not entertain this decision with top brass or his advisers prior to his decision?DMac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:26 amBy the same token, it might have played out quietly if Trump worked within the chain of command too. He should have enough respect and understanding of the chain of command to go down it just as those serving are expected to go up it. He plays by his own rules though, ordering by tweet just doesn't cut it and I'd be surprised if you don't agree with that.
Your orders are to fly your chopper to LZ3. Prez tweets I want him going to LZ5. What orders are you following?
I hope so cuz ordering by tweet aint cuttin' it.