JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[a fan]

For Old Salt's predictions to be accurate, they need indictments. And not just one. A bunch of them.

What ? Show us my predictions.
I said from the outset that I don't necessarily expect criminal indictments.
I just called for an accounting & accountability.

We're just giving you grief for the tone of your posts......making it out like Trump's crew and their indictments were no big deal and overblown, while at the same time hurling wild accusations at your Deep State, breaking laws left and right, hellbent on "taking Trump down".

My accounting of what happened was on one side you had a bunch of weasels and nonstop liars (Trump's crew), vs. career FBI and DoJ agents doing their jobs.

Unless we get multiple indictments and convictions of FBI and DoJ staffers, that's precisely what happened.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well, I guess we will see you soon enough whether the WaPo’s “pre-spin” or yours turns out to be accurate.

It's probably accurate. That doesn't mean they've seen all the details.

Agreed. It doesn’t sound like the press has seen the entire report. The accuracy, and completeness, of the press’ reporting has been a mixed bag. But this would seem to be the top line conclusion. One would expect (hope) the press would get this part right; otherwise, they will have a lot of egg on their faces.

Wouldn’t be the first time. One of the prices we pay for a free society. Hopefully it’s not knowingly false like what we get with Russian State run media. Probably a defense for that too though....

[old salt]

For Old Salt's predictions to be accurate, they need indictments. And not just one. A bunch of them.

What ? Show us my predictions.
I said from the outset that I don't necessarily expect criminal indictments.
I just called for an accounting & accountability.

We're just giving you grief for the tone of your posts......making it out like Trump's crew and their indictments were no big deal and overblown, while at the same time hurling wild accusations at your Deep State, breaking laws left and right, hellbent on "taking Trump down".

My accounting of what happened was on one side you had a bunch of weasels and nonstop liars (Trump's crew), vs. career FBI and DoJ agents doing their jobs.

Unless we get multiple indictments and convictions of FBI and DoJ staffers, that's precisely what happened.

Here ya go, I'll make it EZ4U. One of several saying I just wanted an accounting & didn't necessarily expect indictments.
...I even opined that I thought McCabe should get his pension.
Much of the FBI's top leadership has already been implicated by the IG, if not indicted.
You can minimize it, but that's unprecedented.

afan wrote :
My issue has been Old Salt and others calling for more investigations into the FBI and Hillary, while at the same time saying things like "show me the man, and I'll show you the crime".

Wrong again. I haven't called for a SC for Clinton or even Trump. I've written off holding Clinton accountable. We know what went down with & for her. I'm content with the IG investigation.

I just want some sort of credible investigation of what went on inside the DOJ, IC & Obama Admin in investigating the Trump campaign & admin.
I don't care if it's a SC, US Atty Huber, or IG Horowitz. I just want a credible investigation that identifies the bad actors, however many or few there were. We may already know all of their names & some of them may have been acting in good faith. But we need to know what happened & why, & how they exercised their powers of office.

[Typical Lax Dad]

For Old Salt's predictions to be accurate, they need indictments. And not just one. A bunch of them.

What ? Show us my predictions.
I said from the outset that I don't necessarily expect criminal indictments.
I just called for an accounting & accountability.

We're just giving you grief for the tone of your posts......making it out like Trump's crew and their indictments were no big deal and overblown, while at the same time hurling wild accusations at your Deep State, breaking laws left and right, hellbent on "taking Trump down".

My accounting of what happened was on one side you had a bunch of weasels and nonstop liars (Trump's crew), vs. career FBI and DoJ agents doing their jobs.

Unless we get multiple indictments and convictions of FBI and DoJ staffers, that's precisely what happened.

Here ya go, I'll make it EZ4U. One of several saying I just wanted an accounting & didn't necessarily expect indictments.
...I even opined that I thought McCabe should get his pension.
Much of the FBI's top leadership has already been implicated by the IG, if not indicted.
You can minimize it, but that's unprecedented.

afan wrote :
My issue has been Old Salt and others calling for more investigations into the FBI and Hillary, while at the same time saying things like "show me the man, and I'll show you the crime".

Wrong again. I haven't called for a SC for Clinton or even Trump. I've written off holding Clinton accountable. We know what went down with & for her. I'm content with the IG investigation.

I just want some sort of credible investigation of what went on inside the DOJ, IC & Obama Admin in investigating the Trump campaign & admin.
I don't care if it's a SC, US Atty Huber, or IG Horowitz. I just want a credible investigation that identifies the bad actors, however many or few there were. We may already know all of their names & some of them may have been acting in good faith. But we need to know what happened & why, & how they exercised their powers of office.

I liked your pithy comments that went along with YOUR link to this: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... -on-russia

[Typical Lax Dad]

The way back link

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=379&p=67472&hilit=Nunes#p67472

[a fan]

Here ya go, I'll make it EZ4U. One of several saying I just wanted an accounting & didn't necessarily expect indictments.
...I even opined that I thought McCabe should get his pension.

Oh I remember. That post is the real old salt.

...you left out weeks of grumpiness, making excuses for Trump's crew, while at the same time making unfounded accusations about your Deep State because you were sick of Maddow and the libs.

I was just giving you a little grief.

What I'm waiting for are FISA changes. I'm not holding my breath.

[Trinity]

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi ... 73919.html

Pompeo should testify to clear his name. Sondland did him some damage.

[youthathletics]

The way back link

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=379&p=67472&hilit=Nunes#p67472

Nice Pull TLD. The portion in red form your way back link is indeed quite prescient.

[calourie]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charges-ukra ... 44356.html

So it would appear there is an intelligence community, which some tend to equate with a "deep state" trying to undermine our brilliant POTUS by pinning the blame for political meddling on the innocent Ruskies, and then there is a "super" intelligence community peopled by such outstanding watchdogs as Nunes, Jordan, Rudy, Lev, Roger Stone, POTUS, Pompeo, Pence, Tucker Sean, Laura et al who see the real threat to our country and democracy posed by those nefarious Ukes, and their relations with the Bidens. Come on people, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BS.

[Trinity]

It’s embarrassing to admit you amplified Moscow. Or Kiev, if that’s your cup of deza.

[old salt]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charges-ukra ... 44356.html

So it would appear there is an intelligence community, which some tend to equate with a "deep state" trying to undermine our brilliant POTUS by pinning the blame for political meddling on the innocent Ruskies, and then there is a "super" intelligence community peopled by such outstanding watchdogs as Nunes, Jordan, Rudy, Lev, Roger Stone, POTUS, Pompeo, Pence, Tucker Sean, Laura et al who see the real threat to our country and democracy posed by those nefarious Ukes, and their relations with the Bidens. Come on people, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BS.

The Ukrainian interference was small, in scope, compared to the Russian, but the impact was significant.
That does not mean it should be ignored. It's not a zero sum game.
After the election, the Ukrainians were rightly worried about blowback from the Trump Admin.
It (rightly) knocked out Trump's campaign manager, just after the convention, & bolstered the collusion meme.
We still don't know all the details. For the sake of the Ukrainians, any BS needs to be disproven.

Likewise, a limited number of members in the IC, FBI, DoJ & Obama Admin abused the powers of their office in spying on, undermining & sabotaging the Trump campaign & Presidency. Their number is relatively small, compared to the total size of those organizations. Nonetheless, they were, & continue to be, highly effective in subverting a duly elected Presidency. They need to be identified & held accountable, professionally & politically, if not criminally. The scope of their operation needs to be determined & addressed, so public confidence in those institutions is restored going forward.

[Trinity]

Duly elected with widespread Russian help he denies and helps camouflage and pays back.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charges-ukra ... 44356.html

So it would appear there is an intelligence community, which some tend to equate with a "deep state" trying to undermine our brilliant POTUS by pinning the blame for political meddling on the innocent Ruskies, and then there is a "super" intelligence community peopled by such outstanding watchdogs as Nunes, Jordan, Rudy, Lev, Roger Stone, POTUS, Pompeo, Pence, Tucker Sean, Laura et al who see the real threat to our country and democracy posed by those nefarious Ukes, and their relations with the Bidens. Come on people, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BS.

The Ukrainian interference was small, in scope, compared to the Russian, but the impact was significant.
That does not mean it should be ignored. It's not a zero sum game.
After the election, the Ukrainians were rightly worried about blowback from the Trump Admin.
It (rightly) knocked out Trump's campaign manager, just after the convention, & bolstered the collusion meme.
We still don't know all the details. For the sake of the Ukrainians, any BS needs to be disproven.

Likewise, a limited number of members in the IC, FBI, DoJ & Obama Admin abused the powers of their office in spying on, undermining & sabotaging the Trump campaign & Presidency. Their number is relatively small, compared to the total size of those organizations. Nonetheless, they were, & continue to be, highly effective in subverting a duly elected Presidency. They need to be identified & held accountable, professionally & politically, if not criminally. The scope of their operation needs to be determined & addressed, so public confidence in those institutions is restored going forward.

You mean the crook Paul Manafort?

[calourie]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charges-ukra ... 44356.html

So it would appear there is an intelligence community, which some tend to equate with a "deep state" trying to undermine our brilliant POTUS by pinning the blame for political meddling on the innocent Ruskies, and then there is a "super" intelligence community peopled by such outstanding watchdogs as Nunes, Jordan, Rudy, Lev, Roger Stone, POTUS, Pompeo, Pence, Tucker Sean, Laura et al who see the real threat to our country and democracy posed by those nefarious Ukes, and their relations with the Bidens. Come on people, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BS.

The Ukrainian interference was small, in scope, compared to the Russian, but the impact was significant.
That does not mean it should be ignored. It's not a zero sum game.
After the election, the Ukrainians were rightly worried about blowback from the Trump Admin.
It (rightly) knocked out Trump's campaign manager, just after the convention, & bolstered the collusion meme.
We still don't know all the details. For the sake of the Ukrainians, any BS needs to be disproven.

Likewise, a limited number of members in the IC, FBI, DoJ & Obama Admin abused the powers of their office in spying on, undermining & sabotaging the Trump campaign & Presidency. Their number is relatively small, compared to the total size of those organizations. Nonetheless, they were, & continue to be, highly effective in subverting a duly elected Presidency. They need to be identified & held accountable, professionally & politically, if not criminally. The scope of their operation needs to be determined & addressed, so public confidence in those institutions is restored going forward.

Trump and Republicans had it totally within their power for two years to do all the investigating they wanted to have happen regarding the influence of the "deep state" in subverting a duly elected Presidency. The fact that Trump has appeared to subvert himself throughout his presidency with his pro-Putin anti intelligence community narrative is no one's fault but his own. To go back over it now with a focus on the Bidens via a back channel diplomacy with Ukraine that countered official State Department initiatives now that it has been exposed looks to have been a significant miscalculation. Perhaps the administration could have gone through established protocol for investigating suspected intelligence or political misdoing, but apparently this administration has an aversion to going through legitimate channels such as reporting foreign influence or political shenanigans to the FBI and the like for addressing wrongdoings and greivances.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Instead of going to Jared, Trump went to Lev and Igor.

[old salt]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charges-ukra ... 44356.html

So it would appear there is an intelligence community, which some tend to equate with a "deep state" trying to undermine our brilliant POTUS by pinning the blame for political meddling on the innocent Ruskies, and then there is a "super" intelligence community peopled by such outstanding watchdogs as Nunes, Jordan, Rudy, Lev, Roger Stone, POTUS, Pompeo, Pence, Tucker Sean, Laura et al who see the real threat to our country and democracy posed by those nefarious Ukes, and their relations with the Bidens. Come on people, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BS.

The Ukrainian interference was small, in scope, compared to the Russian, but the impact was significant.
That does not mean it should be ignored. It's not a zero sum game.
After the election, the Ukrainians were rightly worried about blowback from the Trump Admin.
It (rightly) knocked out Trump's campaign manager, just after the convention, & bolstered the collusion meme.
We still don't know all the details. For the sake of the Ukrainians, any BS needs to be disproven.

Likewise, a limited number of members in the IC, FBI, DoJ & Obama Admin abused the powers of their office in spying on, undermining & sabotaging the Trump campaign & Presidency. Their number is relatively small, compared to the total size of those organizations. Nonetheless, they were, & continue to be, highly effective in subverting a duly elected Presidency. They need to be identified & held accountable, professionally & politically, if not criminally. The scope of their operation needs to be determined & addressed, so public confidence in those institutions is restored going forward.

Trump and Republicans had it totally within their power for two years to do all the investigating they wanted to have happen regarding the influence of the "deep state" in subverting a duly elected Presidency. The fact that Trump has appeared to subvert himself throughout his presidency with his pro-Putin anti intelligence community narrative is no one's fault but his own. To go back over it now with a focus on the Bidens via a back channel diplomacy with Ukraine that countered official State Department initiatives now that it has been exposed looks to have been a significant miscalculation. Perhaps the administration could have gone through established protocol for investigating suspected intelligence or political misdoing, but apparently this administration has an aversion to going through legitimate channels such as reporting foreign influence or political shenanigans to the FBI and the like for addressing wrongdoings and greivances.

According to Amb Masha & the interagecy process, the previous Ukrainian govt of PG Lutsenko was too corrupt to deal with.
Had to wait for the new & improved Zelensky admin to get honest brokers.

What's magic about the 2 year mark ? Horowitz started this investigation as soon as he finished the HRC server review.
Sessions wouldn't act. Shortly after Barr was confirmed, he put Durham on the trail.

[calourie]

2 year mark refers to the Rs having control of both the house and the senate. I imagine they could have asked for as much oversight of various government agencies as they wanted, though my Constitutional knowledge on this matter is challengeable.

[calourie]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kellyanne-co ... 04402.html

What it really starts to look like is how much goobledygook do the Rs honestly want to defend. The findings the Intel community are emphasizing now says its RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, without lending a breath of credence to a Ukrainian connection. Do you think the "deep state" is still on the warpath against Trump, Salty? If so, WHO ARE THESE ANTIAMERICANS? OAN, Sean, Tucker, Trump et al say we really need to know. Is the Intel Community simply carrying out another crime in full public view?

[old salt]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kellyanne-co ... 04402.html

What it really starts to look like is how much goobledygook do the Rs honestly want to defend. The findings the Intel community are emphasizing now says its RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, without lending a breath of credence to a Ukrainian connection. Do you think the "deep state" is still on the warpath against Trump, Salty? If so, WHO ARE THESE ANTIAMERICANS? OAN, Sean, Tucker, Trump et al say we really need to know. Is the Intel Community simply carrying out another crime in full public view?

Give that strawman a rest, he's tired of being toppled.
I said the Ukrainian meddling was on a much smaller scale that Russia's.
It was by individuals, not by the govt in general.
That does not mean it should be dismissed or ignored.

A DNC operative worked with Ukrainian govt officials to bring forward information damaging to the Trump campaign.
Consider how hard Strzok, McCabe, Mueller & Assoc worked to find members of the Trump campaign doing the same thing with the Russian govt, to no avail.

[njbill]

You omit one teeny tiny detail. The oppo research was not deployed by Clinton. Yes, it leaked out after the election, but it had no impact whatsoever on the Trump campaign because it did not come out until after the election.