Orange Duce

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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:44 pm
DocB :
You do understand that Russia is a far more corrupt and malignant nation than Ukraine, don’t you? You need to acknowledge that before criticizing Ukraine.
You should listen closely to today's testimony from Dep Sec George Kent. He gave a brief history of Ukraine's endemic corruption, including the fall from grace of the most recent Prosecutor General who was appointed to replace the one VP Biden insisted on firing.

We're now on the new & improved Ukraine 4.0. Hopefully this govt will last longer than it's predecessors who were toppled from within because of that endemic corruption.

Zelensky was just elected & is just a few months into his term. He's an amateur - their Stephen Colbert, A stand up comic whose schtick is lampooning politicians. I hope he turns out to be their George Washington, but his reforms & reformers are barely in place.

It's a bit premature to draw your contrast between Russia & Ukraine. I hope it lives up to your expectations. Maybe the third time is the charm. But it's too soon to make the contrast you do. I'm sure you thought your reset button was going to work too.
Do you have stock in OANN, Salty?
Defending Russia as not "far more corrupt and malignant" than Ukraine???

One is a US adversary, a kleptocracy with consolidated power around a brutal dictator, a former top KGB agent, a country which has an extended and current record of jailing, torturing, killing journalists and political opponents, flouts the rule of rule of law, a country which has invaded its neighbor and threatened others, a country which has been recognized as a malign, active measures meddler in western democratic elections...versus an ally struggling to join western democracies and the rule of law, a country which has rejected the dominance of it's neighbor, Russia, which is in hot combat with that neighbor which has invaded it, which has just elected an anti-corruption leader and parliament...
jhu72
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by jhu72 »

Clearly this advertiser thinks Trump supporters are idiots who will fall for anything. Much like dear leader himself. :lol:

Trumpsuckers, get yours today and piss off a liberal. :lol: :lol:
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kramerica.inc
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by kramerica.inc »

Same for the other side:
The other side: Among those who disapprove of the job Trump is doing (467 respondents), 70% say there's nothing the president could do to gain their support.
Peter Brown
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by Peter Brown »

kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:57 pm
Same for the other side:
The other side: Among those who disapprove of the job Trump is doing (467 respondents), 70% say there's nothing the president could do to gain their support.


Please man, no facts that get in the way of the narrative!

:lol:
kramerica.inc
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by kramerica.inc »

Peter Brown wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:01 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:57 pm
Same for the other side:
The other side: Among those who disapprove of the job Trump is doing (467 respondents), 70% say there's nothing the president could do to gain their support.


Please man, no facts that get in the way of the narrative!

:lol:
Its those closed-minded Trump supporters that are the problem!
:lol:
Peter Brown
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by Peter Brown »

kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:01 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:57 pm
Same for the other side:
The other side: Among those who disapprove of the job Trump is doing (467 respondents), 70% say there's nothing the president could do to gain their support.


Please man, no facts that get in the way of the narrative!

:lol:
Its those closed-minded Trump supporters that are the problem!
:lol:

Seems to be the message I'm getting on this board... :lol:
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holmes435
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by holmes435 »

"Here's a guy who's murdered a bunch of people. Is there anything he can do for you to support him?" "no"

"Here's a guy you like. Would you still support him if he murdered a bunch of people?" "yes"


Somehow Peter Brown and Kramerica think these two situations and answers are identical and have no difference morally. And yes the situation above is semi-exaggerated in case it wasn't obvious to some people. The premise still applies.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

We are truly living in two very different moral realities.

It's interesting but pretty scary, really.
kramerica.inc
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by kramerica.inc »

holmes435 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:02 pm "Here's a guy who's murdered a bunch of people. Is there anything he can do for you to support him?" "no"

"Here's a guy you like. Would you still support him if he murdered a bunch of people?" "yes"


Somehow Peter Brown and Kramerica think these two situations and answers are identical and have no difference morally. And yes the situation above is semi-exaggerated in case it wasn't obvious to some people. The premise still applies.
That’s what you take from what PB and I posted? You’re off base there. I think that’s really just how you’d prefer to spin it.

Again, PB, you’re right- the left’s narrative is all that matters!

:lol:
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youthathletics
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by youthathletics »

Interesting how the champs on jeopardy did not know who Michael Avenatti was: https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1 ... 59776?s=20

Seems only crazy people like us on FanLax know him. :lol:
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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seacoaster
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by seacoaster »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:09 am Interesting how the champs on jeopardy did not know who Michael Avenatti was: https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1 ... 59776?s=20

Seems only crazy people like us on FanLax know him. :lol:
He sure has fallen off the radar. Hard not to be OK with that.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:09 am Interesting how the champs on jeopardy did not know who Michael Avenatti was: https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1 ... 59776?s=20

Seems only crazy people like us on FanLax know him. :lol:
Who?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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RedFromMI
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by RedFromMI »

So the whole G7 at Doral was a late addition championed by the president (to no real surprise):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
seacoaster
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by seacoaster »

The guy is just a reckless mess:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/opin ... e=Homepage

"President Donald Trump on Friday cleared three military service members of war crimes, even after being reportedly advised against doing so by Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy. Mr. Trump interceded on behalf of Army Maj. Mathew Golsteyn, who had been charged with murdering an Afghan man; Edward Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was convicted in connection with posing for a photo with the corpse of a fighter in Iraq; and Army First Lt. Clint Lorance, who, after nine fellow unit members testified against him, had been convicted of murdering two civilians in Afghanistan.

Mr. Trump may believe that intervening pays respect to those who have served in uniform, that it shows he’s “pro-military.” But if this is his view, he’s wrong. In reality, Mr. Trump’s meddling undermines the military’s institutional values, risks endangering American service members, and disrespects the honorable service of the overwhelming majority of veterans.

The military strives to ensure that its members adhere to the laws of war and respect human rights. Service members are trained, for example, to avoid civilian casualties by understanding rules of engagement and following the proper steps for escalation of force. They also learn the appropriate ways to treat detainees, and interrogators are trained to employ only the approved, legal methods.

During my two deployments to Afghanistan, my intelligence work helped lead to the capture of insurgent leaders. Sharing responsibility for their capture and as a recipient of the intelligence produced by their interrogations, I had a sense of moral reassurance in the understanding that my colleagues handled and interrogated the detainees humanely — just as they had been trained.

The lessons service members learn about the laws of war are not an afterthought. Rather, they are central, emphasized time and again — from training sessions and exercises, to military ethics discussions, to actual combat deployments. The Army’s official values, after all, demand that soldiers “do what’s right, legally and morally” and “treat others with dignity and respect,” making no exceptions for civilians or even enemies.

The military requires its members to operate in accordance with the laws of war for good reason. Disregarding the laws of war — which Mr. Trump has done by intervening in these cases — jeopardizes mission accomplishment and the safety of service members; excessive civilian casualties, for example, can stimulate further violence, turn local populations against American forces, and discourage allies from collaborating with the United States. Mr. Trump should realize that the laws of war actually serve to benefit our armed forces.Against this backdrop, Mr. Trump’s intervention on behalf of those convicted or accused of conduct falling short of the military’s crucial legal requirements and moral expectations undermines the training in which the military rightly invests so much effort. It trivializes the values the military spends so much time fostering. He could be endangering United States service members deployed to combat zones by handing their enemies propaganda and recruitment material and by degrading support among local populations.

To be sure, war is complex, and service members accordingly face difficult moral choices under extraordinary pressure. But their preparation helps them make sound decisions in these tough situations, and the military justice system considers the factual circumstances of each case and the intent of the actor.

Mr. Trump appears to be following in the unfortunate footsteps of President Richard Nixon. In the wake of Lt. William Calley’s murder conviction in connection with the Vietnam War’s My Lai Massacre, President Richard Nixon intervened on behalf of Mr. Calley. In a response that rings true today, Capt. Aubrey Daniel, the military prosecutor in the case, wrote the president:

“Your intervention has, in my opinion, damaged the military judicial system. … I would expect that the president of the United States, a man whom I believed should and would provide the moral leadership for this nation, would stand fully behind the law of this land on a moral issue which is so clear and about which there can be no compromise.”

Mr. Trump, to the detriment of the United States Armed Forces, remains fixated on condoning the aberrant conduct of those convicted or accused of flouting the laws of war. He should have left the military justice system to do its job. But perhaps this is not surprising, considering that Mr. Trump himself has recently advocated a war crime — the appropriation of oil in Syria."

This is the person for whom the GOP sold its soul and compromised its principles.
jhu72
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by jhu72 »

Yup.
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ToastDunk
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by ToastDunk »

seacoaster wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:56 am The guy is just a reckless mess:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/opin ... e=Homepage

"President Donald Trump on Friday cleared three military service members of war crimes, even after being reportedly advised against doing so by Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy. Mr. Trump interceded on behalf of Army Maj. Mathew Golsteyn, who had been charged with murdering an Afghan man; Edward Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was convicted in connection with posing for a photo with the corpse of a fighter in Iraq; and Army First Lt. Clint Lorance, who, after nine fellow unit members testified against him, had been convicted of murdering two civilians in Afghanistan.

Mr. Trump may believe that intervening pays respect to those who have served in uniform, that it shows he’s “pro-military.” But if this is his view, he’s wrong. In reality, Mr. Trump’s meddling undermines the military’s institutional values, risks endangering American service members, and disrespects the honorable service of the overwhelming majority of veterans.

The military strives to ensure that its members adhere to the laws of war and respect human rights. Service members are trained, for example, to avoid civilian casualties by understanding rules of engagement and following the proper steps for escalation of force. They also learn the appropriate ways to treat detainees, and interrogators are trained to employ only the approved, legal methods.

During my two deployments to Afghanistan, my intelligence work helped lead to the capture of insurgent leaders. Sharing responsibility for their capture and as a recipient of the intelligence produced by their interrogations, I had a sense of moral reassurance in the understanding that my colleagues handled and interrogated the detainees humanely — just as they had been trained.

The lessons service members learn about the laws of war are not an afterthought. Rather, they are central, emphasized time and again — from training sessions and exercises, to military ethics discussions, to actual combat deployments. The Army’s official values, after all, demand that soldiers “do what’s right, legally and morally” and “treat others with dignity and respect,” making no exceptions for civilians or even enemies.

The military requires its members to operate in accordance with the laws of war for good reason. Disregarding the laws of war — which Mr. Trump has done by intervening in these cases — jeopardizes mission accomplishment and the safety of service members; excessive civilian casualties, for example, can stimulate further violence, turn local populations against American forces, and discourage allies from collaborating with the United States. Mr. Trump should realize that the laws of war actually serve to benefit our armed forces.Against this backdrop, Mr. Trump’s intervention on behalf of those convicted or accused of conduct falling short of the military’s crucial legal requirements and moral expectations undermines the training in which the military rightly invests so much effort. It trivializes the values the military spends so much time fostering. He could be endangering United States service members deployed to combat zones by handing their enemies propaganda and recruitment material and by degrading support among local populations.

To be sure, war is complex, and service members accordingly face difficult moral choices under extraordinary pressure. But their preparation helps them make sound decisions in these tough situations, and the military justice system considers the factual circumstances of each case and the intent of the actor.

Mr. Trump appears to be following in the unfortunate footsteps of President Richard Nixon. In the wake of Lt. William Calley’s murder conviction in connection with the Vietnam War’s My Lai Massacre, President Richard Nixon intervened on behalf of Mr. Calley. In a response that rings true today, Capt. Aubrey Daniel, the military prosecutor in the case, wrote the president:

“Your intervention has, in my opinion, damaged the military judicial system. … I would expect that the president of the United States, a man whom I believed should and would provide the moral leadership for this nation, would stand fully behind the law of this land on a moral issue which is so clear and about which there can be no compromise.”

Mr. Trump, to the detriment of the United States Armed Forces, remains fixated on condoning the aberrant conduct of those convicted or accused of flouting the laws of war. He should have left the military justice system to do its job. But perhaps this is not surprising, considering that Mr. Trump himself has recently advocated a war crime — the appropriation of oil in Syria."

This is the person for whom the GOP sold its soul and compromised its principles.
In typical Trump fashion, ignorance is bliss. He has no idea what he is doing here other than in the simplest terms: warrior=good, period. This decision to undermine our military leaders reminds me of the day Trump exclaimed "I know more about ISIS than the generals do." (November 2015). Folks, he's stupid, and that's dangerous. The word I'm hearing from contacts in Coronado is this decision is troubling. Not welcome news for the Teams. The President of the United States should care. He doesn't.
DMac
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by DMac »

+100
Further, this is not about pardons it's about Trump's phony "military man" wannabe persona.
"I took the most chickenschidt way out of serving but look at what I do for our troops."
Last edited by DMac on Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
jhu72
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by jhu72 »

Trump's numbers among active duty military have slipped since he took office. Last Military Times poll I saw said he was a wash, mid-40s kind of approval and disapproval numbers. I suspect he has slipped most with the officer corp. This latest pardon probably doesn't help his numbers there. His debacle with the Kurds I don't think has been reflected in any poll of the military.
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Brooklyn
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by Brooklyn »

Image

Image


:lol:
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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seacoaster
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by seacoaster »

ToastDunk wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:22 am
seacoaster wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:56 am The guy is just a reckless mess:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/opin ... e=Homepage

"President Donald Trump on Friday cleared three military service members of war crimes, even after being reportedly advised against doing so by Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy. Mr. Trump interceded on behalf of Army Maj. Mathew Golsteyn, who had been charged with murdering an Afghan man; Edward Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was convicted in connection with posing for a photo with the corpse of a fighter in Iraq; and Army First Lt. Clint Lorance, who, after nine fellow unit members testified against him, had been convicted of murdering two civilians in Afghanistan.

Mr. Trump may believe that intervening pays respect to those who have served in uniform, that it shows he’s “pro-military.” But if this is his view, he’s wrong. In reality, Mr. Trump’s meddling undermines the military’s institutional values, risks endangering American service members, and disrespects the honorable service of the overwhelming majority of veterans.

The military strives to ensure that its members adhere to the laws of war and respect human rights. Service members are trained, for example, to avoid civilian casualties by understanding rules of engagement and following the proper steps for escalation of force. They also learn the appropriate ways to treat detainees, and interrogators are trained to employ only the approved, legal methods.

During my two deployments to Afghanistan, my intelligence work helped lead to the capture of insurgent leaders. Sharing responsibility for their capture and as a recipient of the intelligence produced by their interrogations, I had a sense of moral reassurance in the understanding that my colleagues handled and interrogated the detainees humanely — just as they had been trained.

The lessons service members learn about the laws of war are not an afterthought. Rather, they are central, emphasized time and again — from training sessions and exercises, to military ethics discussions, to actual combat deployments. The Army’s official values, after all, demand that soldiers “do what’s right, legally and morally” and “treat others with dignity and respect,” making no exceptions for civilians or even enemies.

The military requires its members to operate in accordance with the laws of war for good reason. Disregarding the laws of war — which Mr. Trump has done by intervening in these cases — jeopardizes mission accomplishment and the safety of service members; excessive civilian casualties, for example, can stimulate further violence, turn local populations against American forces, and discourage allies from collaborating with the United States. Mr. Trump should realize that the laws of war actually serve to benefit our armed forces.Against this backdrop, Mr. Trump’s intervention on behalf of those convicted or accused of conduct falling short of the military’s crucial legal requirements and moral expectations undermines the training in which the military rightly invests so much effort. It trivializes the values the military spends so much time fostering. He could be endangering United States service members deployed to combat zones by handing their enemies propaganda and recruitment material and by degrading support among local populations.

To be sure, war is complex, and service members accordingly face difficult moral choices under extraordinary pressure. But their preparation helps them make sound decisions in these tough situations, and the military justice system considers the factual circumstances of each case and the intent of the actor.

Mr. Trump appears to be following in the unfortunate footsteps of President Richard Nixon. In the wake of Lt. William Calley’s murder conviction in connection with the Vietnam War’s My Lai Massacre, President Richard Nixon intervened on behalf of Mr. Calley. In a response that rings true today, Capt. Aubrey Daniel, the military prosecutor in the case, wrote the president:

“Your intervention has, in my opinion, damaged the military judicial system. … I would expect that the president of the United States, a man whom I believed should and would provide the moral leadership for this nation, would stand fully behind the law of this land on a moral issue which is so clear and about which there can be no compromise.”

Mr. Trump, to the detriment of the United States Armed Forces, remains fixated on condoning the aberrant conduct of those convicted or accused of flouting the laws of war. He should have left the military justice system to do its job. But perhaps this is not surprising, considering that Mr. Trump himself has recently advocated a war crime — the appropriation of oil in Syria."

This is the person for whom the GOP sold its soul and compromised its principles.
In typical Trump fashion, ignorance is bliss. He has no idea what he is doing here other than in the simplest terms: warrior=good, period. This decision to undermine our military leaders reminds me of the day Trump exclaimed "I know more about ISIS than the generals do." (November 2015). Folks, he's stupid, and that's dangerous. The word I'm hearing from contacts in Coronado is this decision is troubling. Not welcome news for the Teams. The President of the United States should care. He doesn't.
He cares about a single thing in respect to most decisions he makes: reelection, and satisfaction of his weird Obama-Boner fetish.
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