Trump's Russian Collusion

[ggait]

It turns out that Zelensky was maybe a few hours away from announcing an investigation - then the WB notice...

The hostage video was scheduled for September 13 with CNN's Fareed Zakaria, who had traveled to Ukraine for the interview with Zelensky.

Then on September 9, ICIG Atkinson tells Nunes and Schiff about the WB. Bolton quits on Sept 10. Trump, having been busted in public, let's the money go on Sept 11. The CNN interview never happens.

Since the cops stormed in before the bank robbers got into the safe, it's not a bank robbery, right?

[old salt]

Do service academy grads really smear each other this way for anyone? I call bs. Total keyboard phony.

.. ...say what ? Everything I've said about Amb Taylor has been respectful or complimentary.

[ggait]

Get the facts out. Let's clear the air & show that Ukraine's committed to rooting out corruption going forward.

All totally fine.

As I've said like 100 times before, do it the right way.

1. Have the RNC use RNC funds to hire Chris Steele to go wild in Ukraine. If Steele finds anything, he's free to turn his findings over to DOJ. That's totally legal -- exactly how Hillary did it.

2. Open up a real investigation through official channels.

What you don't do is get Rudy to put the balls of an ally in a vice on the down low and squeeze until your ally does what you want. And then cover it up.

[smoova]

Do service academy grads really smear each other this way for anyone? I call bs. Total keyboard phony.

Most woops and (unless Randy corrects me) squids do not. LandM is an interesting case study of how folks from the new school conduct themselves.

[old salt]

Get the facts out. Let's clear the air & show that Ukraine's committed to rooting out corruption going forward.

All totally fine.

As I've said like 100 times before, do it the right way.

1. Have the RNC use RNC funds to hire Chris Steele to go wild in Ukraine. If Steele finds anything, he's free to turn his findings over to DOJ. That's totally legal -- exactly how Hillary did it.

2. Open up a real investigation through official channels.

What you don't do is get Rudy to put the balls of an ally in a vice on the down low and squeeze until your ally does what you want. And then cover it up.

Agree. Keep in mind that Zsky had just appointed his new PG at the time of the call.
Maybe he was going to announce on CNN that his new PG would be collaborating with our DoJ IAW our mutual legal assistance treaty.
Give Zsky credit for being smarter than Trump.

[Trinity]

You know I’m not talking about you, Salty.

[old salt]

Did you watch Amb Taylor ?
Amb Volker, Amb Somdland, & Secy Perry (the 3 Amigos) are also your exalted Federal employees.
They, along with Rudy G, comprised the Irregular Channel.

I must have missed that part.

So in the Taylor hearing today, you heard Taylor say that he, Sondland, Perry, and Giuliani were all pushing to get the Ukr President to announce that Hunter Biden was under investigation?

Because that's the "irregular" part of this entire mess.

Giuliani has. no. standing. He was there to go after Biden. It's RIDICULOUS to act like he was involved for any other reason. Stop acting like you think this was all normal....it's just not working.

Taylor called out the "Irregular channel" by name. Those 4 + Mick Mulvaney, the WH COS/OMB.

I'm not saying it's normal. Amb Taylor acknowledged that back channels are not unprecedented & can sometime be helpful.
He seemed to welcome the support of the 3 Amigos & the Senators who visited Ukraine, until he learned about the hold & the request for investigations.

Sure, back channels are old as the hills. They helped resolve the Cuban missile crisis. What Rudy was doing doesn’t qualify as a back channel, however. He was not doing anything to further U.S. diplomatic interests. Rather, he was seeking to further Trump’s personal and political interests. His efforts, in fact, undermined U.S. policy, which was to root out corruption in the Ukraine. Rudy was trying to further corruption. As soon as Taylor recognized that, he stopped supporting what Rudy and his gang of misfits were doing.

You're overstating my position. Amb Taylor was OK with the "irregular channel" so long as it moved the process toward his desired outcome, with no strings attached. He lost his tolerance for the "irregular channel" when he came to view it as an obstruction.

Actually, the 3 Amigos were helping his cause. They were trying to find a way to get the aid approved & a WH meeting set, while placating Trump.
Rudy, Mulvaney & Trump himself were the obstacles.
The WB blew things up before the 3 Amigos could succeed as fixers, get the aid & WH mtg approved, & Zelensky to announce an investigation, to include Biden & Burisma.
The WB was protecting Biden. He (& his associates) could not tolerate an investigation of Biden/Burisma.

Oh, boy. So much in there.

It wasn’t just Taylor’s desired outcome, it was pretty much everyone’s in the US government except Trump’s, it seems.

Taylor lost his “tolerance” (a charitable characterization if there ever was one) when he got wind of the fact that the Trump gang was improperly trying to condition the release of the aid and the scheduling of the meeting on Zelensky’s announcing there would be a phony investigation. Sure, the phony investigation was an “obstruction.” Illegal acts often are.

You blithely blow past the point that what was going on was highly improper, if not illegal. The three amigos certainly knew this, but chose to ignore it in their service of Trump. Taylor’s “cause” never included the quid pro quo.

It is laughable to suggest the whistleblower was protecting Biden. Trump was engaging in illegal activity, as the facts have now overwhelmingly demonstrated. That is why the whistle was blown; it had nothing to do with Biden. And by the way, Biden had already been investigated by the Ukraine and, no doubt, by Barr. As has repeatedly been reported, no one anywhere has found that Joe Biden did anything illegal. Even if what Hunter did was unseemly, why would his “sins” be visited on his father? Do you have adult children? Are you responsible for they do?

Phony investigation ? Where's your faith in Pres Zelensky & his new Prosecutor General ?
If we can't trust him to do an honest investigation, can we trust him not to use weapons like Javelin's without escalating the conflict ?

[old salt]

You know I’m not talking about you, Salty.

Wasn't sure. I missed the insult. Thx.

FTR -- I do think the service acad thing is overused.

[ggait]

Agree. Keep in mind that Zsky had just appointed his new PG at the time of the call.
Maybe he was going to announce on CNN that his new PG would be collaborating with our DoJ IAW our mutual legal assistance treaty.
Give Zsky credit for being smarter than Trump.

For all we know, the Ukes right now are furiously investigating Joe and Hunter for corruption. Which is fine if they think there is something worth looking at.

But what they did not have to do, thanks to the WB outing the bribery scheme, is make a hostage video deliverable that Rudy and Bone Spurs could beat Biden over the head with in the campaign. It wasn't about corruption or investigations. It was about the ANNOUNCEMENT.

And there is simply ZERO innocent explanation for why there had to be an ANNOUNCEMENT that Biden was going to start to be investigated.

[Trinity]

Fifth in his class. Combat Infantry Badge. Not impressed? The rest of us are.

[old salt]

Fifth in his class. Combat Infantry Badge. Not impressed? The rest of us are.

I'm impressed, for those & other reasons.

FTR -- there's plenty of outstanding officers who were competing for the anchorman lottery,
...or were not ring knockers.

[LandM]

Bottom of my class - well last 10%. Probably have same ribbons and medals. So what. Good friend graduated a year before at bottom of his class - cross commissioned SEAL team 6 and retired as Admiral. Same with another. Two bottoms flew and piloted Shuttle. So what. Not the degree it is what you do with it. To both of the gentlemen’s credit with Schiff - neither wanted to enter the ring - Teddy - many out here should read it.

[LandM]

Btw I hate ring knockers

[LandM]

Just read your up post Trinity - want to see my board with my diploma? Your boy Murf was the lier so let’s call B/S. I am in.

[Kismet]

Fifth in his class. Combat Infantry Badge. Not impressed? The rest of us are.

I'm impressed, for those & other reasons.

FTR -- there's plenty of outstanding officers who were competing for the anchorman lottery,
...or were not ring knockers.

I think the class rank thing was made to suggest that the result of that rank might have meant more choice on final assignment after graduation and that Taylor chose a combat assignment when perhaps he might have had more non-combat choice than other grads with lower grades.

Can we also agree that the petty and shabby treatment of the ambassador by Fox News commentators and other RW media denigrating him personally is also something you do not support? And that those outlets should be called out for trashing a decorated veteran and longtime public servant?

[old salt]

Fifth in his class. Combat Infantry Badge. Not impressed? The rest of us are.

I'm impressed, for those & other reasons.

FTR -- there's plenty of outstanding officers who were competing for the anchorman lottery,
...or were not ring knockers.

I think the class rank thing was made to suggest that the result of that rank might have meant more choice on final assignment after graduation and that Taylor chose a combat assignment when perhaps he might have had more non-combat choice than other grads with lower grades.

Can we also agree that the petty and shabby treatment of the ambassador by Fox News commentators and other RW media denigrating him personally is also something you do not support? And that those outlets should be called out for trashing a decorated veteran and longtime public servant?

I haven't seen Amb Taylor receive petty or shabby treatment. Did you see the facial expressions & demeanor of both Taylor & Jordan during their exchange ? Neither could suppress a grin. They both understood the game being played & seemed to be enjoying the exchange.

It takes courage to volunteer to be an infantry officer in time of war.
It's also career enhancing, if you survive.

[LandM]

Kismet
Please enlighten me on George Patton. You know the guy who could not pass 1st year math. Tell me he graduated in the top 5 of his class. Then we will move on to Eisenhower.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Agree. Keep in mind that Zsky had just appointed his new PG at the time of the call.
Maybe he was going to announce on CNN that his new PG would be collaborating with our DoJ IAW our mutual legal assistance treaty.
Give Zsky credit for being smarter than Trump.

For all we know, the Ukes right now are furiously investigating Joe and Hunter for corruption. Which is fine if they think there is something worth looking at.

But what they did not have to do, thanks to the WB outing the bribery scheme, is make a hostage video deliverable that Rudy and Bone Spurs could beat Biden over the head with in the campaign. It wasn't about corruption or investigations. It was about the ANNOUNCEMENT.

And there is simply ZERO innocent explanation for why there had to be an ANNOUNCEMENT that Biden was going to start to be investigated.

A public announcement with the cameras rolling. The kind of stuff Jihadi John types force prisoners to do....

[Kismet]

L/M - Suggest you re-read my post . Never made any statement about grade rank other than to say that perhaps the reason some media brought it up was that as a high-ranked graduate Taylor might have had a wider choice of assignment than classmates with lower class rank.

Please lighten up. It might help with your reading comprehension.

I am aware of Patton and Eisenhower educational information at West Point (and George Custer, too for that matter). They certainly deserve their recognition as well. Last time I checked neither of them were testifying at any Congressional hearings recently.

[old salt]

Agree. Keep in mind that Zsky had just appointed his new PG at the time of the call.
Maybe he was going to announce on CNN that his new PG would be collaborating with our DoJ IAW our mutual legal assistance treaty.
Give Zsky credit for being smarter than Trump.

For all we know, the Ukes right now are furiously investigating Joe and Hunter for corruption. Which is fine if they think there is something worth looking at.

But what they did not have to do, thanks to the WB outing the bribery scheme, is make a hostage video deliverable that Rudy and Bone Spurs could beat Biden over the head with in the campaign. It wasn't about corruption or investigations. It was about the ANNOUNCEMENT.

And there is simply ZERO innocent explanation for why there had to be an ANNOUNCEMENT that Biden was going to start to be investigated.

A public announcement with the cameras rolling. The kind of stuff Jihadi John types force prisoners to do....

That's a lot to ask for $400 million, with no other strings attached.