Trump's Russian Collusion

[foreverlax]

Did you watch Amb Taylor ?
Amb Volker, Amb Somdland, & Secy Perry (the 3 Amigos) are also your exalted Federal employees.
They, along with Rudy G, comprised the Irregular Channel.

I must have missed that part.

So in the Taylor hearing today, you heard Taylor say that he, Sondland, Perry, and Giuliani were all pushing to get the Ukr President to announce that Hunter Biden was under investigation?

Because that's the "irregular" part of this entire mess.

Giuliani has. no. standing. He was there to go after Biden. It's RIDICULOUS to act like he was involved for any other reason. Stop acting like you think this was all normal....it's just not working.

Taylor called out the "Irregular channel" by name. Those 4 + Mick Mulvaney, the WH COS/OMB.

I'm not saying it's normal. Amb Taylor acknowledged that back channels are not unprecedented & can sometime be helpful.
He seemed to welcome the support of the 3 Amigos & the Senators who visited Ukraine, until he learned about the hold & the request for investigations.

Sure, back channels are old as the hills. They helped resolve the Cuban missile crisis. What Rudy was doing doesn’t qualify as a back channel, however. He was not doing anything to further U.S. diplomatic interests. Rather, he was seeking to further Trump’s personal and political interests. His efforts, in fact, undermined U.S. policy, which was to root out corruption in the Ukraine. Rudy was trying to further corruption. As soon as Taylor recognized that, he stopped supporting what Rudy and his gang of misfits were doing.

You're overstating my position. Amb Taylor was OK with the "irregular channel" so long as it moved the process toward his desired outcome, with no strings attached. He lost his tolerance for the "irregular channel" when he came to view it as an obstruction.

Actually, the 3 Amigos were helping his cause. They were trying to find a way to get the aid approved & a WH meeting set, while placating Trump.
Rudy, Mulvaney & Trump himself were the obstacles.
The WB blew things up before the 3 Amigos could succeed as fixers, get the aid & WH mtg approved, & Zelensky to announce an investigation, to include Biden & Burisma.
The WB was protecting Biden. He (& his associates) could not tolerate an investigation of Biden/Burisma.

More opinion.

[RedFromMI]

It turns out that Zelensky was maybe a few hours away from announcing an investigation - then the WB notice...

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/zele ... ng-changed

[Trinity]

“If the Prez has any exculpatory evidence, and Donzo, by that I mean....” Speaker Pelosi

Meanwhile the busboys at the restaurant in Kiev have reminded Sondland that, like many Americans, he stiffed them.

[MDlaxfan76]

Did you watch Amb Taylor ?
Amb Volker, Amb Somdland, & Secy Perry (the 3 Amigos) are also your exalted Federal employees.
They, along with Rudy G, comprised the Irregular Channel.

I must have missed that part.

So in the Taylor hearing today, you heard Taylor say that he, Sondland, Perry, and Giuliani were all pushing to get the Ukr President to announce that Hunter Biden was under investigation?

Because that's the "irregular" part of this entire mess.

Giuliani has. no. standing. He was there to go after Biden. It's RIDICULOUS to act like he was involved for any other reason. Stop acting like you think this was all normal....it's just not working.

Taylor called out the "Irregular channel" by name. Those 4 + Mick Mulvaney, the WH COS/OMB.

I'm not saying it's normal. Amb Taylor acknowledged that back channels are not unprecedented & can sometime be helpful.
He seemed to welcome the support of the 3 Amigos & the Senators who visited Ukraine, until he learned about the hold & the request for investigations.

Sure, back channels are old as the hills. They helped resolve the Cuban missile crisis. What Rudy was doing doesn’t qualify as a back channel, however. He was not doing anything to further U.S. diplomatic interests. Rather, he was seeking to further Trump’s personal and political interests. His efforts, in fact, undermined U.S. policy, which was to root out corruption in the Ukraine. Rudy was trying to further corruption. As soon as Taylor recognized that, he stopped supporting what Rudy and his gang of misfits were doing.

You're overstating my position. Amb Taylor was OK with the "irregular channel" so long as it moved the process toward his desired outcome, with no strings attached. He lost his tolerance for the "irregular channel" when he came to view it as an obstruction.

Actually, the 3 Amigos were helping his cause. They were trying to find a way to get the aid approved & a WH meeting set, while placating Trump.
Rudy, Mulvaney & Trump himself were the obstacles.
The WB blew things up before the 3 Amigos could succeed as fixers, get the aid & WH mtg approved, & Zelensky to announce an investigation, to include Biden & Burisma.
The WB was protecting Biden. He (& his associates) could not tolerate an investigation of Biden/Burisma.

That's a generous take on the 3 amigos' role. Could be accurate, but we don't know it to be the case that they were actually clear and 100% aligned with US policy, especially Perry who may well have had his own self-serving agenda in conflict with US policy.

No, we have zero idea whether the WB was interested in any way in "protecting Biden" or anyone else other than US policy. Certainly we heard compelling testimony that these two guys (and a whole bunch of other folks) were 100% focused on US policy imperatives. The desire to trade political and economic support for a political benefit being directly in conflict with US policy to promote the rule of law and the commitments to an embattled ally.

Want to change the US policy to 'the heck with rule of law and who cares whether Ukraine is overrun by Russia'...come out and say so. Otherwise, that's what this is all about.

[Trinity]

Pardon Manafort, end sanctions, do bidness.

[a fan]

NO....you are NOT answering the question. You pass the buck to the DOJ....like they are some terminus that can't not exist without the POTUSA's input.

Nope. I'm telling you how American government works. Not my fault you don't like it.

You are telling me, with all the checks and balances, the EXEC branch can distributed aid or funds at their discretion? Follow it's own timeline?

Yep. Where do you think that Farm money for the tariff war came from?

This is the US political system? AND you believe the DOJs arms are tied ?

I believe that the head of the DoJ is appointed by the POTUS, and can be fired by the President at any time.

Who do you think he's going favor? Congress, or his boss?

I'm telling you the score. As usual, you want to yell at the messenger.

[old salt]

Did you watch Amb Taylor ?
Amb Volker, Amb Somdland, & Secy Perry (the 3 Amigos) are also your exalted Federal employees.
They, along with Rudy G, comprised the Irregular Channel.

I must have missed that part.

So in the Taylor hearing today, you heard Taylor say that he, Sondland, Perry, and Giuliani were all pushing to get the Ukr President to announce that Hunter Biden was under investigation?

Because that's the "irregular" part of this entire mess.

Giuliani has. no. standing. He was there to go after Biden. It's RIDICULOUS to act like he was involved for any other reason. Stop acting like you think this was all normal....it's just not working.

Taylor called out the "Irregular channel" by name. Those 4 + Mick Mulvaney, the WH COS/OMB.

I'm not saying it's normal. Amb Taylor acknowledged that back channels are not unprecedented & can sometime be helpful.
He seemed to welcome the support of the 3 Amigos & the Senators who visited Ukraine, until he learned about the hold & the request for investigations.

Sure, back channels are old as the hills. They helped resolve the Cuban missile crisis. What Rudy was doing doesn’t qualify as a back channel, however. He was not doing anything to further U.S. diplomatic interests. Rather, he was seeking to further Trump’s personal and political interests. His efforts, in fact, undermined U.S. policy, which was to root out corruption in the Ukraine. Rudy was trying to further corruption. As soon as Taylor recognized that, he stopped supporting what Rudy and his gang of misfits were doing.

You're overstating my position. Amb Taylor was OK with the "irregular channel" so long as it moved the process toward his desired outcome, with no strings attached. He lost his tolerance for the "irregular channel" when he came to view it as an obstruction.

Actually, the 3 Amigos were helping his cause. They were trying to find a way to get the aid approved & a WH meeting set, while placating Trump.
Rudy, Mulvaney & Trump himself were the obstacles.
The WB blew things up before the 3 Amigos could succeed as fixers, get the aid & WH mtg approved, & Zelensky to announce an investigation, to include Biden & Burisma.
The WB was protecting Biden. He (& his associates) could not tolerate an investigation of Biden/Burisma.

That's a generous take on the 3 amigos' role. Could be accurate, but we don't know it to be the case that they were actually clear and 100% aligned with US policy, especially Perry who may well have had his own self-serving agenda in conflict with US policy.

No, we have zero idea whether the WB was interested in any way in "protecting Biden" or anyone else other than US policy. Certainly we heard compelling testimony that these two guys (and a whole bunch of other folks) were 100% focused on US policy imperatives. The desire to trade political and economic support for a political benefit being directly in conflict with US policy to promote the rule of law and the commitments to an embattled ally.

Want to change the US policy to 'the heck with rule of law and who cares whether Ukraine is overrun by Russia'...come out and say so. Otherwise, that's what this is all about.

Your usual hyperbolic overstatement. The 3 Amigos were fixers, in a good sense.
Ukraine gets their aid & WH mtg, while establishing their anti-corruption creds going forward by investigating the previous govt's activities in our 2016 election & the Biden/Burisma apparent conflict of interest. If there's no evidence of conflict, Biden comes out stronger.

[foreverlax]

Did you watch Amb Taylor ?
Amb Volker, Amb Somdland, & Secy Perry (the 3 Amigos) are also your exalted Federal employees.
They, along with Rudy G, comprised the Irregular Channel.

I must have missed that part.

So in the Taylor hearing today, you heard Taylor say that he, Sondland, Perry, and Giuliani were all pushing to get the Ukr President to announce that Hunter Biden was under investigation?

Because that's the "irregular" part of this entire mess.

Giuliani has. no. standing. He was there to go after Biden. It's RIDICULOUS to act like he was involved for any other reason. Stop acting like you think this was all normal....it's just not working.

Taylor called out the "Irregular channel" by name. Those 4 + Mick Mulvaney, the WH COS/OMB.

I'm not saying it's normal. Amb Taylor acknowledged that back channels are not unprecedented & can sometime be helpful.
He seemed to welcome the support of the 3 Amigos & the Senators who visited Ukraine, until he learned about the hold & the request for investigations.

Sure, back channels are old as the hills. They helped resolve the Cuban missile crisis. What Rudy was doing doesn’t qualify as a back channel, however. He was not doing anything to further U.S. diplomatic interests. Rather, he was seeking to further Trump’s personal and political interests. His efforts, in fact, undermined U.S. policy, which was to root out corruption in the Ukraine. Rudy was trying to further corruption. As soon as Taylor recognized that, he stopped supporting what Rudy and his gang of misfits were doing.

You're overstating my position. Amb Taylor was OK with the "irregular channel" so long as it moved the process toward his desired outcome, with no strings attached. He lost his tolerance for the "irregular channel" when he came to view it as an obstruction.

Actually, the 3 Amigos were helping his cause. They were trying to find a way to get the aid approved & a WH meeting set, while placating Trump.
Rudy, Mulvaney & Trump himself were the obstacles.
The WB blew things up before the 3 Amigos could succeed as fixers, get the aid & WH mtg approved, & Zelensky to announce an investigation, to include Biden & Burisma.
The WB was protecting Biden. He (& his associates) could not tolerate an investigation of Biden/Burisma.

That's a generous take on the 3 amigos' role. Could be accurate, but we don't know it to be the case that they were actually clear and 100% aligned with US policy, especially Perry who may well have had his own self-serving agenda in conflict with US policy.

No, we have zero idea whether the WB was interested in any way in "protecting Biden" or anyone else other than US policy. Certainly we heard compelling testimony that these two guys (and a whole bunch of other folks) were 100% focused on US policy imperatives. The desire to trade political and economic support for a political benefit being directly in conflict with US policy to promote the rule of law and the commitments to an embattled ally.

Want to change the US policy to 'the heck with rule of law and who cares whether Ukraine is overrun by Russia'...come out and say so. Otherwise, that's what this is all about.

Your usual hyperbolic overstatement. The 3 Amigos were fixers, in a good sense.
Ukraine gets their aid & WH mtg, while establishing their anti-corruption creds going forward by investigating the previous govt's activities in our 2016 election & the Biden/Burisma apparent conflict of interest. If there's no evidence of conflict, Biden comes out stronger.

No reason in the world for Trump to ask for Biden to be investigate....not in the way it was asked and why it was asked. No matter how you spin it, what Trump did was an abuse of his office.

[seacoaster]

"Your usual hyperbolic overstatement. The 3 Amigos were fixers, in a good sense.
Ukraine gets their aid & WH mtg, while establishing their anti-corruption creds going forward by investigating the previous govt's activities in our 2016 election & the Biden/Burisma apparent conflict of interest. If there's no evidence of conflict, Biden comes out stronger."

Certainly in the top five of your outlandish flights of toadying fancy. The Tres Amigos were working on the President's reelection campaign -- totally and only -- in an effort to shift blame to Ukraine and Democrats for the interference that likely helped put Trump in the "duly elected" chair, and to discredit a political opponent. This is only hard because you need it to be. You used to have something to say; now it's all just 'splainin' as fast and loose as you can. "Sad."

"In a good sense." Jesus H. Unbelievable.

[njbill]

Did you watch Amb Taylor ?
Amb Volker, Amb Somdland, & Secy Perry (the 3 Amigos) are also your exalted Federal employees.
They, along with Rudy G, comprised the Irregular Channel.

I must have missed that part.

So in the Taylor hearing today, you heard Taylor say that he, Sondland, Perry, and Giuliani were all pushing to get the Ukr President to announce that Hunter Biden was under investigation?

Because that's the "irregular" part of this entire mess.

Giuliani has. no. standing. He was there to go after Biden. It's RIDICULOUS to act like he was involved for any other reason. Stop acting like you think this was all normal....it's just not working.

Taylor called out the "Irregular channel" by name. Those 4 + Mick Mulvaney, the WH COS/OMB.

I'm not saying it's normal. Amb Taylor acknowledged that back channels are not unprecedented & can sometime be helpful.
He seemed to welcome the support of the 3 Amigos & the Senators who visited Ukraine, until he learned about the hold & the request for investigations.

Sure, back channels are old as the hills. They helped resolve the Cuban missile crisis. What Rudy was doing doesn’t qualify as a back channel, however. He was not doing anything to further U.S. diplomatic interests. Rather, he was seeking to further Trump’s personal and political interests. His efforts, in fact, undermined U.S. policy, which was to root out corruption in the Ukraine. Rudy was trying to further corruption. As soon as Taylor recognized that, he stopped supporting what Rudy and his gang of misfits were doing.

You're overstating my position. Amb Taylor was OK with the "irregular channel" so long as it moved the process toward his desired outcome, with no strings attached. He lost his tolerance for the "irregular channel" when he came to view it as an obstruction.

Actually, the 3 Amigos were helping his cause. They were trying to find a way to get the aid approved & a WH meeting set, while placating Trump.
Rudy, Mulvaney & Trump himself were the obstacles.
The WB blew things up before the 3 Amigos could succeed as fixers, get the aid & WH mtg approved, & Zelensky to announce an investigation, to include Biden & Burisma.
The WB was protecting Biden. He (& his associates) could not tolerate an investigation of Biden/Burisma.

Oh, boy. So much in there.

It wasn’t just Taylor’s desired outcome, it was pretty much everyone’s in the US government except Trump’s, it seems.

Taylor lost his “tolerance” (a charitable characterization if there ever was one) when he got wind of the fact that the Trump gang was improperly trying to condition the release of the aid and the scheduling of the meeting on Zelensky’s announcing there would be a phony investigation. Sure, the phony investigation was an “obstruction.” Illegal acts often are.

You blithely blow past the point that what was going on was highly improper, if not illegal. The three amigos certainly knew this, but chose to ignore it in their service of Trump. Taylor’s “cause” never included the quid pro quo.

It is laughable to suggest the whistleblower was protecting Biden. Trump was engaging in illegal activity, as the facts have now overwhelmingly demonstrated. That is why the whistle was blown; it had nothing to do with Biden. And by the way, Biden had already been investigated by the Ukraine and, no doubt, by Barr. As has repeatedly been reported, no one anywhere has found that Joe Biden did anything illegal. Even if what Hunter did was unseemly, why would his “sins” be visited on his father? Do you have adult children? Are you responsible for they do?

[a fan]

And Hillary wasn't prosecuted or impeached for Benghazi.

Nope. Instead, citizens kept her corruption out of the White House.

Pity Republicans can't make the same claim.

[ggait]

Typical overstatement. The 3 Amigos were fixers, in a good sense.
Ukraine gets their aid & WH mtg,

I think it is fair to view the three amigos as just trying to get the job done. None of the three amigos cared about Biden or Crowdstrike. They, along with Taylor etc., wanted the Ukes to get their aid. The amigos were just trying to satisfy the conditions being imposed by Trump and Rudy. Since they couldn't talk Trump and Rudy out of their nefarious demands, they tried to get done what needed to get done. A good example of how a corrupt guy like Trump inevitably corrupts everyone around him. Trump won't listen, Trump won't change. So unless you quit, you wind up dirty -- as naive fantasy camp diplomat Gordo is discovering.

while establishing their anti-corruption creds going forward by investigating the previous govt's activities in our 2016 election & the Biden/Burisma apparent conflict of interest. If there's no there, there, Biden comes out stronger.

This, on the other hand, it complete Bravo Sierra. The key in this whole affair is that Trump and Rudy were angling, most of all, for a public announcement up front. Public box. Go before a microphone.

Because the announcement by itself would have done great damage to Biden. Regardless of whether an investigation ever happened later and regardless of what an investigation would have found later. If there was a legit interest in a legit Biden investigation, it would have been handled through normal DOJ channels and would have been done with no pre-announcement. But a legit investigation would be of no political value to Trump. So they didn't even try to do that.

[njbill]

“Fantasy camp diplomat.”

[Typical Lax Dad]

Typical overstatement. The 3 Amigos were fixers, in a good sense.
Ukraine gets their aid & WH mtg,

I think it is fair to view the three amigos as just trying to get the job done. None of the three amigos cared about Biden or Crowdstrike. They, along with Taylor etc., wanted the Ukes to get their aid. The amigos were just trying to satisfy the conditions being imposed by Trump and Rudy. Since they couldn't talk Trump and Rudy out of their nefarious demands, they tried to get done what needed to get done. A good example of how a corrupt guy like Trump inevitably corrupts everyone around him. Trump won't listen, Trump won't change. So unless you quit, you wind up dirty -- as naive fantasy camp diplomat Gordo is discovering.

while establishing their anti-corruption creds going forward by investigating the previous govt's activities in our 2016 election & the Biden/Burisma apparent conflict of interest. If there's no there, there, Biden comes out stronger.

This, on the other hand, it complete Bravo Sierra. The key in this whole affair is that Trump and Rudy were angling, most of all, for a public announcement up front. Public box. Go before a microphone.

Because the announcement by itself would have done great damage to Biden. Regardless of whether an investigation ever happened later and regardless of what an investigation would have found later. If there was a legit interest in a legit Biden investigation, it would have been handled through normal DOJ channels and would have been done with no pre-announcement. But a legit investigation would be of no political value to Trump. So they didn't even try to do that.

The investigation was irrelevant. They wanted the hostage to make a public announcement which could be used as propaganda. That’s the real value. Would have hit Biden below the water line.

[Trinity]

Yovanovitch tomorrow. Eight witnesses next week. To stay with Trump you’ll need to wear a mask. He doesn’t care about Ukraine. He cares about himself. Bolton has chosen poorly.

[LandM]

TLD - nice video - was more impressed with the band members they actually can create something

K - who gives a ratz about graduating from WP at number 5 - most of the folks who wear stars graduated around me - close to the bottom.. Please stop using an Academy grad, class ranking and combat - many did - not impressed.....

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yovanovitch tomorrow. Eight witnesses next week. To stay with Trump you’ll need to wear a mask. He doesn’t care about Ukraine. He cares about himself. Bolton has chosen poorly.

They just can't get over it. All of these people are just mad at Trump... GWB and HWB along with Clinton and Obama all did the same things and nobody gave them a hard time.

[ggait]

K - who gives a ratz about graduating from WP at number 5

Perhaps SOS Pompeo (#1 in his class at USMA)? Who twisted Taylor's arm to take the job after Yanovavitch was sacked?

[old salt]

Typical overstatement. The 3 Amigos were fixers, in a good sense.
Ukraine gets their aid & WH mtg,

I think it is fair to view the three amigos as just trying to get the job done. None of the three amigos cared about Biden or Crowdstrike. They, along with Taylor etc., wanted the Ukes to get their aid. The amigos were just trying to satisfy the conditions being imposed by Trump and Rudy. Since they couldn't talk Trump and Rudy out of their nefarious demands, they tried to get done what needed to get done. A good example of how a corrupt guy like Trump inevitably corrupts everyone around him. Trump won't listen, Trump won't change. So unless you quit, you wind up dirty -- as naive fantasy camp diplomat Gordo is discovering.

while establishing their anti-corruption creds going forward by investigating the previous govt's activities in our 2016 election & the Biden/Burisma apparent conflict of interest. If there's no there, there, Biden comes out stronger.

This, on the other hand, it complete Bravo Sierra. The key in this whole affair is that Trump and Rudy were angling, most of all, for a public announcement up front. Public box. Go before a microphone.

Because the announcement by itself would have done great damage to Biden. Regardless of whether an investigation ever happened later and regardless of what an investigation would have found later. If there was a legit interest in a legit Biden investigation, it would have been handled through normal DOJ channels and would have been done with no pre-announcement. But a legit investigation would be of no political value to Trump. So they didn't even try to do that.

You think that the Biden/Burisma topic is going away ?
Wait 'til the Senate trial competes for tv air time with the (D) primaries.
Get the facts out. Let the voters decide. The MSM will ensure that Biden gets a fair reading of the facts.

Same thing with the Ukrainian govt activities in the 2016 election, as reported by Ken Vogel in POLITICO in Jan 2017.
Vogel's now at the NYT. Get him & Zelensky's new Prosecutor General on it. Trump asked Zsky to have him work with Barr (DoJ).
Get the facts out. Let's clear the air & show that Ukraine's committed to rooting out corruption going forward.

[Trinity]

Do service academy grads really smear each other this way for anyone? I call bs. Total keyboard phony. btw Lindsey Graham should subpoena Chalupa himself. He doesn’t have a hair across his ass. She can tell you all about Ken Vogel under oath.