Trump's Russian Collusion

[cradleandshoot]

Rep. Ratcliffe just asked the most important question of the day: Was there anything in President Trump's July 25th phone call that was impeachable. Neither witness said yes.

It’s not for the witnesses to make that determination. How are the figs?

Correct. That's for Orange Duce to decide, right Bandito.

You mean President Trump? Im sure you wouldn’t be upset if someone referred to Obama as Brown Duce? Hypocrite

I don't care how you refer to Obama. The White House cafeteria released today's menu. Turkish Wiener was served. I hear Trump enjoyed it.

How was it served? Between 2 buns?

[old salt]

"Sorry. I'm not willing to write off the USA just because Trump is the President..."

Forgive me, but this is an astonishingly obtuse thing to say on the plain and unambiguous facts in front of us. The USA is functionally the structure and functions of the Constitution. You're willingness to just let Trump's conduct pass is, in practice, writing off the USA. Do you not get the asymmetry of what you do and say? Oath much? At all, anymore?

Trump is the President until he is removed from office.
Regarding my oath, if he gave me a lawful order, it would be my duty to carry it out.
There are two Constitutional processes to remove Trump from office.
If enough US citizens share your view, he will be removed by one of them.
If he is removed, it will reflect the will of my fellow citizens expressed at the ballot box or via their Congressional representatives.
I will respect their decision, one way or the other.
Until he leaves office, I want the government to function & President Trump to succeed, because that means the US is succeeding.
Do you suggest I send back my retired pay & social security, in protest ?

Salty, are you still serving in the military?
If not, I'd like to understand what 'orders' the POTUS could give you that would be your "duty to carry out".

The second element I bolded is exactly how fouled up Trumpists and their ilk are about how our system works.
No, any particular President's 'success' does not "mean the US is succeeding".
The US is made up of far more than any President, much less the Executive branch or even the 3 co-equal branches of government.

A President's 'success' politically is fleeting, all the more so if "succeed" means destroying Constitutional norms, expectations, balance of power, etc.
Likewise, would be if "succeed" is due to foreign interference by adversaries in our democratic processes.

Of course, we do "want the government to function"...but to what ends?

Read the post. I was replying to seacoaster's question regarding the oath I took.
Though rarely enforced, retired military members are still subject to the UCMJ.
Retirees can be recalled to active duty for life, but not likely after 5 years from separation or age 60.

[a fan]

when are you all going to look at HRC, Fusion, the Australian prof - need to be fair about this and you all are not.

So now posters here are in charge of the DoJ and the FBI?

This complaint belongs at Trump's feet....why isn't he "investigating" these dead horses of yours?

And why aren't you mad at him for not investigating these things?

Because you don't actually care, that's why.

[CU88]

Today's Impeachment Hearing. I’m going to withhold judgment on what the impact will be on public opinion, since we’ve got a lot more hearings coming within the next week and I am inclined to think that the cumulative impact will be more important than any individual hearing.

I will be very interested, though, to see what happens with the testimony of Taylor’s staffer, David Holmes, who overheard the phone call between Trump and Sondland where Trump asked about the investigations. To my knowledge this was new and powerful information.

I wonder if Republicans’ staff lawyer, Steve Castor, will be back for questioning on Friday, since the members seemed to be more effective in questioning the witnesses (or, at times, talking at the witnesses) than he was.

Democrats are doing exactly what they promised — soberly laying out all of their evidence. From my perspective, today went very well for them. Republicans got pretty deeply mired in conspiracy theories, and I don’t think that served them well if they’re trying to convince anyone who doesn’t already watch Fox News — although of course, it probably was effective with that particular audience.

[Bandito]

Rep. Ratcliffe just asked the most important question of the day: Was there anything in President Trump's July 25th phone call that was impeachable. Neither witness said yes.

It’s not for the witnesses to make that determination. How are the figs?

Correct. That's for Orange Duce to decide, right Bandito.

You mean President Trump? Im sure you wouldn’t be upset if someone referred to Obama as Brown Duce? Hypocrite

I don't care how you refer to Obama. The White House cafeteria released today's menu. Turkish Wiener was served. I hear Trump enjoyed it.

Liar. You’d call racism. So why do you make fun of our President’s (Did you know Trump IS your President?) skin color?? Sit down old man you are a bigoted racist.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Rep. Ratcliffe just asked the most important question of the day: Was there anything in President Trump's July 25th phone call that was impeachable. Neither witness said yes.

It’s not for the witnesses to make that determination. How are the figs?

Correct. That's for Orange Duce to decide, right Bandito.

You mean President Trump? Im sure you wouldn’t be upset if someone referred to Obama as Brown Duce? Hypocrite

I don't care how you refer to Obama. The White House cafeteria released today's menu. Turkish Wiener was served. I hear Trump enjoyed it.

How was it served? Between 2 buns?

I heard it was a foot long

[a fan]

TLD,
Your hatred of the guy is funny - I am not defending him or his actions current or prior -

Yes, you are. That's precisely what you're doing. That's precisely what everyone in FoxNation is doing.

You're attacking/criticizing, in no particular order, Hillary, Kent, Castro, and Taylor.......with no effort whatsoever. If it's a D or someone you perceive to having undermined Trump? Criticism comes easily, and flows like a river.

But when it comes time to discussing what the leader of the free world actually did? Suddenly you get a case of the yips, and "just can't manage" to talk about what he did.

It's a silly partisan trick, and it won't work here.

[jhu72]

I thought the whole thing was as expected. The dems asked questions of the witnesses, the republicans, some asked questions that did not dent, and the republican show horses made jackasses of themselves with irrelevance. They were handed their hats when trying to label the witnesses. A bad look. Any undecided observer probably did not like that particular tactic on the part of the republicans.

Republicans don't have a defense. Their defense seems to be "bad democrats" - that is not directed at refuting the witnesses testimony. Only real objection that holds even a thimble of water is the issue of no first hand testimony in relation to Trump himself. I suspect dems will make Trump and his team pay for obstruction of witness testimony and not supplying requested documentation. The viewing public will take note of this and ask the question what is Trump afraid of if he is innocent.

Day one goes to the prosecution I think. Certainly if you polled lawyers.

[jhu72]

Rep. Ratcliffe just asked the most important question of the day: Was there anything in President Trump's July 25th phone call that was impeachable. Neither witness said yes.

It’s not for the witnesses to make that determination. How are the figs?

Correct. That's for Orange Duce to decide, right Bandito.

You mean President Trump? Im sure you wouldn’t be upset if someone referred to Obama as Brown Duce? Hypocrite

I don't care how you refer to Obama. The White House cafeteria released today's menu. Turkish Wiener was served. I hear Trump enjoyed it.

How was it served? Between 2 buns?

I heard it was a foot long

Ah, probably too big for his little hands.

[old salt]

To help appreciate the urgency of this second batch of lethal military aid to Ukraine, here's what they got in the first batch, in addition to 210 Javelins.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/12/ ... raine.html
https://uawire.org/us-gives-ukraine-cou ... ery-radars
https://www.janes.com/article/87863/ukr ... ield-tests
https://www.rferl.org/a/us-state-depart ... 97926.html

That's why Amb Taylor couldn't tell Schiff that the delay lead to any additional Ukrainian casualties.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... p-delayed/

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

The State Department funding included $115 million for a broad array of purposes, to buy American-produced weapons through the Foreign Military Financing program, but also to provide advisers and training to boost Ukraine’s NATO interoperability: English language labs, medical equipment and improvised bomb simulators. The funds could also pay for spare parts, sustainment and training for previously purchased U.S. gear.

[admin]

TWEEET!!!! Bandito, just go to the box...

2 Minute (4 Day) Penalty. The penalty will be released on Sunday at 4:12 PM EST.

TWEEEET!!!! Play on...

[Typical Lax Dad]

To help appreciate the urgency of this second batch of lethal military aid to Ukraine, here's what they got in the first batch, in addition to 150 Javelins.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/12/ ... raine.html
https://uawire.org/us-gives-ukraine-cou ... ery-radars
https://www.janes.com/article/87863/ukr ... ield-tests

That's why Amb Taylor couldn't tell Schiff that the delay lead to any additional Ukrainian casualties.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... p-delayed/

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

The State Department funding included $115 million for a broad array of purposes, to buy American-produced weapons through the Foreign Military Financing program, but also to provide advisers and training to boost Ukraine’s NATO interoperability: English language labs, medical equipment and improvised bomb simulators. The funds could also pay for spare parts, sustainment and training for previously purchased U.S. gear.

What was the hold up?

[jhu72]

To help appreciate the urgency of this second batch of lethal military aid to Ukraine, here's what they got in the first batch, in addition to 150 Javelins.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/12/ ... raine.html
https://uawire.org/us-gives-ukraine-cou ... ery-radars
https://www.janes.com/article/87863/ukr ... ield-tests

That's why Amb Taylor couldn't tell Schiff that the delay lead to any additional Ukrainian casualties.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... p-delayed/

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

The State Department funding included $115 million for a broad array of purposes, to buy American-produced weapons through the Foreign Military Financing program, but also to provide advisers and training to boost Ukraine’s NATO interoperability: English language labs, medical equipment and improvised bomb simulators. The funds could also pay for spare parts, sustainment and training for previously purchased U.S. gear.

What was the hold up?

Can't you read? It didn't matter.

[CU88]

To help appreciate the urgency of this second batch of lethal military aid to Ukraine, here's what they got in the first batch, in addition to 150 Javelins.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/12/ ... raine.html
https://uawire.org/us-gives-ukraine-cou ... ery-radars
https://www.janes.com/article/87863/ukr ... ield-tests

That's why Amb Taylor couldn't tell Schiff that the delay lead to any additional Ukrainian casualties.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... p-delayed/

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

The State Department funding included $115 million for a broad array of purposes, to buy American-produced weapons through the Foreign Military Financing program, but also to provide advisers and training to boost Ukraine’s NATO interoperability: English language labs, medical equipment and improvised bomb simulators. The funds could also pay for spare parts, sustainment and training for previously purchased U.S. gear.

What was the hold up?

Can't you read? It didn't matter.

Thank goodness for the Whistler Blower, or these funds would still be on hold...

[old salt]

To help appreciate the urgency of this second batch of lethal military aid to Ukraine, here's what they got in the first batch, in addition to 150 Javelins.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/12/ ... raine.html
https://uawire.org/us-gives-ukraine-cou ... ery-radars
https://www.janes.com/article/87863/ukr ... ield-tests

That's why Amb Taylor couldn't tell Schiff that the delay lead to any additional Ukrainian casualties.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... p-delayed/

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

The State Department funding included $115 million for a broad array of purposes, to buy American-produced weapons through the Foreign Military Financing program, but also to provide advisers and training to boost Ukraine’s NATO interoperability: English language labs, medical equipment and improvised bomb simulators. The funds could also pay for spare parts, sustainment and training for previously purchased U.S. gear.

What was the hold up?

Inter-governmental turf battle.

[ggait]

Certainly a Dem win today, as you would expect since they are playing offense at a home game.

Setting up for Sondland to be the key witness. Dems have already summoned the staffer who heard the restaurant call (David Holmes) to give a closed door deposition on Friday. Dems smartly continue to bust Sondland's balls in order to help his recollection get fresher and fresher.

Seems to me that if the needle/public opinion is going to move, it wouldn't be based on a single dramatic moment or day. But more from the accumulation of facts and witnesses. Tough strategy to win on, though, with the FNC megaphone going 24/7.

[Typical Lax Dad]

To help appreciate the urgency of this second batch of lethal military aid to Ukraine, here's what they got in the first batch, in addition to 150 Javelins.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/12/ ... raine.html
https://uawire.org/us-gives-ukraine-cou ... ery-radars
https://www.janes.com/article/87863/ukr ... ield-tests

That's why Amb Taylor couldn't tell Schiff that the delay lead to any additional Ukrainian casualties.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... p-delayed/

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

The State Department funding included $115 million for a broad array of purposes, to buy American-produced weapons through the Foreign Military Financing program, but also to provide advisers and training to boost Ukraine’s NATO interoperability: English language labs, medical equipment and improvised bomb simulators. The funds could also pay for spare parts, sustainment and training for previously purchased U.S. gear.

What was the hold up?

Inter-governmental turf battle.

That explains it. Knew I could count on you. Can you post a copy of those inter-Government memos? I am sure they were all CYA and memorializing their actions.

[LandM]

aFan,
I am not the jury - the voters will be. I gave my candid observation. It does not fit your narrative. I get that many out here hate the guy - really I do. No sweat off mine. Unfortunately you want to have people play with your ball or you will take it home and then there is no ball. Wimpy. It is one after another - looking at many of the elected officials out there and there line of reasoning was tough BUT I did what many of you asked me to do, I painfully did it. BTW, I will NOT read the transcripts. It was tough watching PSU lose to MN last week - wanted to grab the coach and twist the collar and tell him - POINTS, man POINTS - but he lost - not the same here - IMHO the dems lost and Schiff looked petulant. See you in CO in Feb.

[LandM]

gg - we must have been watching a different channel - no points were scored - I would call it a loss or min a tie. Not sure what you saw.

[jhu72]

Certainly a Dem win today, as you would expect since they are playing offense at a home game.

Setting up for Sondland to be the key witness. Dems have already summoned the staffer who heard the restaurant call (David Holmes) to give a closed door deposition on Friday. Dems smartly continue to bust Sondland's balls in order to help his recollection get fresher and fresher.

Seems to me that if the needle/public opinion is going to move, it wouldn't be based on a single dramatic moment or day. But more from the accumulation of facts and witnesses. Tough strategy to win on, though, with the FNC megaphone going 24/7.

Nothing is going to move the needle much. Its kind of like scoring figure skating.