JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[a fan]

No. Ukraine still got the aid before Sept 30

And Trump got caught Aug 12th, when the whistleblower filed the complaint. Trump's drug deal was snitched.

Why the heck are you still defending this nonsense?

Zelensky is now the US MSM's darling
Congress members of both parties are rushing to the cameras, pledging indefinite support for the new corruption-free Ukraine.
Our craven MSM has converted those plucky Ukrainians into freedom fighters.

Yep. You're right. And who's fault is that? Who put Ukraine in the spotlight?

Oh yeah, the MSM was dying to cover a pointless country no American can find on a map, even if their life depended on it.

[old salt]

Ukraine got the aid only because of a court ruling, had nothing to do with Trump or his obvious intentions.

What court ruling ? Plz explain.

Are you asserting that Trump intended to withhold the aid past 30 Sep, so it could no longer be authorized ?
If yes, plz explain the basis for that assertion.

[old salt]

No. Ukraine still got the aid before Sept 30

And Trump got caught Aug 12th, when the whistleblower filed the complaint. Trump's drug deal was snitched.

Why the heck are you still defending this nonsense?
Because this "impeachment" process is a sham.
Because I don't believe that Trump intended to not release the aid.

Zelensky is now the US MSM's darling
Congress members of both parties are rushing to the cameras, pledging indefinite support for the new corruption-free Ukraine.
Our craven MSM has converted those plucky Ukrainians into freedom fighters.

Yep. You're right. And who's fault is that? Who put Ukraine in the spotlight?
The WB, his sleazy tweeting coup plotting lawyer, & Schiff.
That was the plan when they couldn't leak the call transcript.


Oh yeah, the MSM was dying to cover a pointless country no American can find on a map, even if their life depended on it.
You're making my pont. The MSM only cover's Ukraine when they can somehow turn it into a knock on Trump.

[a fan]

Because I don't believe that Trump intended to not release the aid.

Great. Why did he hold it in the first place? This'll be a swell story from you....why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

You're seriously so stubborn that you're going to pretend you're so stupid, that gee whiz, you can't figure out what Trump was doing with the Ukraine and Biden.

No one is buying your act here. You know exactly what Trump did. You know it's wrong. But you're so mad at the Dems, the media, and anyone except Trump that you're going to pretend like you don't get why Trump is being impeached.

There's millions of guys just like you, all across our country.

You are BEGGING for Karma to exact a toll for this silliness.

The WB, his sleazy tweeting coup plotting lawyer, & Schiff.

There it is. This is a battle over who you hate more.

And the little D's lose that battle with you every time.

You're making my pont. The MSM only cover's Ukraine when they can somehow turn it into a knock on Trump.[/color]

Knock on Trump? Oh, heaven's no. Everything Trump and his personal lawyer did in the Ukraine makes perfect sense. Any day now, the now famous and super serious investigation into US crime in the Ukraine will bear fruit, right?

Personally? I think we should destroy the REAL villains here: namely, anyone who tell us what, precisely, the leader of the free word is doing.

Any suggestions as to how we can do this? Can we switch from America to the DDR for the rest of the year? Borrow their laws and methods? The leaks that give Americans facts about what their leaders are doing will go away, that's for doggone sure.

[old salt]

Because I don't believe that Trump intended to not release the aid.

Great. Why did he hold it in the first place? This'll be a swell story from you....why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

You're seriously so stubborn that you're going to pretend you're so stupid, that gee whiz, you can't figure out what Trump was doing with the Ukraine and Biden.

No one is buying your act here. You know exactly what Trump did. You know it's wrong. But you're so mad at the Dems, the media, and anyone except Trump that you're going to pretend like you don't get why Trump is being impeached.

There's millions of guys just like you, all across our country.

You are BEGGING for Karma to exact a toll for this silliness.

The WB, his sleazy tweeting coup plotting lawyer, & Schiff.

There it is. This is a battle over who you hate more.

And the little D's lose that battle with you every time.

You're making my pont. The MSM only cover's Ukraine when they can somehow turn it into a knock on Trump.[/color]

Knock on Trump? Oh, heaven's no. Everything Trump and his personal lawyer did in the Ukraine makes perfect sense. Any day now, the now famous and super serious investigation into US crime in the Ukraine will bear fruit, right?

Personally? I think we should destroy the REAL villains here: namely, anyone who tell us what, precisely, the leader of the free word is doing.

Any suggestions as to how we can do this? Can we switch from America to the DDR for the rest of the year? Borrow their laws and methods? The leaks that give Americans facts about what their leaders are doing will go away, that's for doggone sure.

You're such a drama queen. .. The Ukrainians got their friggin aid.
You should serve on the NSC. If you've been paying attention here,
at least you'd know that Trump, not Obama, sent them Javelins.
The NSC's Ukraine expert doesn't even know that.

[a fan]

You're such a drama queen. .. The Ukrainians got their friggin aid.

Aaaaaand, as usual, you keep right on pretending you're too stupid to understand what the subject is at hand. As if anyone here
cares a whit about the Ukraine or military aid.

Riding the Trump/Giuliani horse into the sunset, are we?

[foreverlax]

...why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

The answer given - the money was held up to determine is Ukraine wasn't still corrupt.

Based on what? What's the measurement?

Tell us what the specific deliverable was....OR was it all up to Trump to measure, as the VSG?

They were getting rockets to defend themselves, not food stamps to buy lobster.

[Trinity]

Trump as a crime fighter just don’t fly. Like Trump as a marathon runner.

[ABV 8.3%]

...why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

The answer given - the money was held up to determine is Ukraine wasn't still corrupt.

Based on what? What's the measurement?

Tell us what the specific deliverable was....OR was it all up to Trump to measure, as the VSG?

They were getting rockets to defend themselves, not food stamps to buy lobster.

Defending themselves against whom? Anti-tank javelins from the killing industry. Lots of Lizzie Warrens neighbors make sweet coin from this Ukraining aid. Unless Raytheon "donated" the killing machines.

Anyone in Congress own Raytheon stock? That voted Yeah for the Ukraine aid?

NDAA bill coming up for a vote.........anyone care?

nopexactly

[MDlaxfan76]

I've met Bill Browder, and recently.
No fan of Vlad's Useful Idiot is Browder.

https://time.com/5340545/bill-browder-v ... ald-trump/

https://www.dw.com/en/bill-browder-trum ... v-48755495

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/view-kr ... d=60375934

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1532043065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IsP_tZ46s

I saw a tv appearance by Browder, shortly after Trump approved additional Magnitsky Act sanctions in Dec '17 (see below)
I remember it distinctly because Browder seemed happily surprised. He had been lobbying hard for them.
Guess it's a case of what have you done for me lately. As a US ex-pat UK citizen, Beowder should spend more of his efforts lobbying the UK & give Trump a break for doing more than his EU & UK clients.

https://time.com/5220097/despite-the-ap ... on-russia/

the Trump Administration leveled financial sanctions and travel restrictions against 50-plus individuals accused of corruption and human-rights abuses under both the Magnitsky Act (named for a Russian whistle-blower) and its international variant, the Global Magnitsky Act. Among those included on the sanctions lists were the son of Russian prosecutor general Yuri Chaika and Putin-backed strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, the President of Chechnya.

I think what you are referring to, certainly the Time article is, would be the additional new individuals named for sanctions using Magnitsky. These had been lobbied for hard, and very fully supported by Congress.

Indeed, Trump had delayed them going forward for many months, and ultimately acquiesced.

Someone clearly persuaded him that he needed to institute them given all the flak incoming from the Dems (and the rest of us) for being Vlad's man in DC. Note that because the Russians knew about these specific sanctions all those months, they had the opportunity to move their funds out of reach, most likely using the shadow banking system in Cyprus, etc that we have not been able to include in these sanctions though we're trying. But the sanctions do put a big crimp on these with which the Russians named can access parts of the financial system, travel, etc.

If one was cynical, one would say that Vlad had given the thumbs up, given the politics.

But even if one is less cynical, we should nevertheless not buy into anything more than Trump was between a rock and a hard place. He delayed and the pressure was heavy.

But, sure, Browder would indeed have been 'happily surprised' given that he'd worked hard to achieve them and it was not a foregone conclusion that, though they'd been passed by Congress, they'd actually get implemented by Trump and Co.

Does it give you pause that Ian Bremmer (the author of the Time article I linked) was willing to give Trump credit for this, & other strong anti-Russia actions taken ? It should.

Actually no.

Here's Ian Bremmer's explanation of that first year:

What to make of this discrepancy between Trump’s lack of criticism and his Administration’s tangible moves against Moscow? Three things. First, there are limits on the President’s power, even on foreign policy. Second, incoherence from the White House makes it easier for Congress and the Pentagon to push for the foreign policy they support. Third, while Trump has a noted affinity for strongmen (see: Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Egypt’s Abdul Fattah al-Sisi), he’s also sensitive to any suggestion that Putin controls him. He may not call Putin a liar, but by siding with Western allies on Ukraine and the poisoning investigation in the U.K., he is making clear that there is a limit to how much of Russia’s aggressive behavior he can ignore.

I think what we now know is that back then Trump faced a much stronger anti-Russia position in Congress and indeed a more independent Congress on the GOP side. There were numerous Senators, for instance, who were willing to publicly call for pressure against Russia, were willing to conflict with the President publicly.

What we are also learning is that many of Trump's advisors and cabinet members, who are no longer there, were indeed 'adults in the room', guiding, nudging Trump toward better decisions, especially in foreign affairs.

None of that appears to be true any more, the GOP is entirely cowed, critics have been swept out of the party, and all of the most experienced foreign service senior advisors have been pushed out of proximity to POTUS. Trump is making decisions based on what he watches on TV, and telephone calls with autocrats he admires, no constraints.

So, we see much more open disregard for allies, much more blatant and open pro-Russia moves. We see Pompeo and State trying to stay relevant, but a shadow foreign policy being executed through totally corrupted, non-cleared personnel.

So, Ian Breemer's assessment makes sense, both then and in retrospect.

[foreverlax]

...why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

The answer given - the money was held up to determine is Ukraine wasn't still corrupt.

Based on what? What's the measurement?

Tell us what the specific deliverable was....OR was it all up to Trump to measure, as the VSG?

They were getting rockets to defend themselves, not food stamps to buy lobster.

Defending themselves against whom? Anti-tank javelins from the killing industry. Lots of Lizzie Warrens neighbors make sweet coin from this Ukraining aid. Unless Raytheon "donated" the killing machines.

Anyone in Congress own Raytheon stock? That voted Yeah for the Ukraine aid?

NDAA bill coming up for a vote.........anyone care?

nopexactly

That is your complaint?

Maybe you should start a new thread that addresses this issue.

[Trinity]

US forces watched drone feeds with alarm as Turkish-backed forces in Syria appeared to target civilians. The reports of possible war crimes went to top US military and diplomatic leaders in DC, where Trump meets Erdogan tomorrow.
wsj

[jhu72]

Because I don't believe that Trump intended to not release the aid.

Great. Why did he hold it in the first place? This'll be a swell story from you....why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

You're seriously so stubborn that you're going to pretend you're so stupid, that gee whiz, you can't figure out what Trump was doing with the Ukraine and Biden.

No one is buying your act here. You know exactly what Trump did. You know it's wrong. But you're so mad at the Dems, the media, and anyone except Trump that you're going to pretend like you don't get why Trump is being impeached.

There's millions of guys just like you, all across our country.

You are BEGGING for Karma to exact a toll for this silliness.

The WB, his sleazy tweeting coup plotting lawyer, & Schiff.

There it is. This is a battle over who you hate more.

And the little D's lose that battle with you every time.

You're making my pont. The MSM only cover's Ukraine when they can somehow turn it into a knock on Trump.[/color]

Knock on Trump? Oh, heaven's no. Everything Trump and his personal lawyer did in the Ukraine makes perfect sense. Any day now, the now famous and super serious investigation into US crime in the Ukraine will bear fruit, right?

Personally? I think we should destroy the REAL villains here: namely, anyone who tell us what, precisely, the leader of the free word is doing.

Any suggestions as to how we can do this? Can we switch from America to the DDR for the rest of the year? Borrow their laws and methods? The leaks that give Americans facts about what their leaders are doing will go away, that's for doggone sure.

Hit it out of the park!

+1000

[ABV 8.3%]

...why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

The answer given - the money was held up to determine is Ukraine wasn't still corrupt.

Based on what? What's the measurement?

Tell us what the specific deliverable was....OR was it all up to Trump to measure, as the VSG?

They were getting rockets to defend themselves, not food stamps to buy lobster.

Defending themselves against whom? Anti-tank javelins from the killing industry. Lots of Lizzie Warrens neighbors make sweet coin from this Ukraining aid. Unless Raytheon "donated" the killing machines.

Anyone in Congress own Raytheon stock? That voted Yeah for the Ukraine aid?

NDAA bill coming up for a vote.........anyone care?

nopexactly

That is your complaint?

Maybe you should start a new thread that addresses this issue.

giving away candy (javelins) to our frenemies is suddenly NOT a matter of national security ? Or is following the money, who benefitted financially from the "military aid" belongs on, say.....the TAATS thread? Irregardless, why can't you engage in a national security issue (killing machine gifts ) or....do you just wanna talk about trump on every single thread.

In short, you lil band of guys......look around. You turn people off. They don't join, engage. Why bother? Most unwelcoming group of 6-8 people I have evah read. oh....look, 3 guys online. And all of them the same people , like laxpower days

If any place that is NOT the place to say "stay on topic"....its the politics page.

[jhu72]

US forces watched drone feeds with alarm as Turkish-backed forces in Syria appeared to target civilians. The reports of possible war crimes went to top US military and diplomatic leaders in DC, where Trump meets Erdogan tomorrow.
wsj

Trump's planning on eating wiener for lunch.

[ABV 8.3%]

You're such a drama queen. .. The Ukrainians got their friggin aid.

Aaaaaand, as usual, you keep right on pretending you're too stupid to understand what the subject is at hand. As if anyone here
cares a whit about the Ukraine or military aid.

Riding the Trump/Giuliani horse into the sunset, are we?

Then why are we bothering with giving them aid......at all.......if we don't care.

Not sure I understand the statement anyway

[ABV 8.3%]

US forces watched drone feeds with alarm as Turkish-backed forces in Syria appeared to target civilians. The reports of possible war crimes went to top US military and diplomatic leaders in DC, where Trump meets Erdogan tomorrow.
wsj

How are they "backed" ? What does this mean?

[foreverlax]

...why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

The answer given - the money was held up to determine is Ukraine wasn't still corrupt.

Based on what? What's the measurement?

Tell us what the specific deliverable was....OR was it all up to Trump to measure, as the VSG?

They were getting rockets to defend themselves, not food stamps to buy lobster.

Defending themselves against whom? Anti-tank javelins from the killing industry. Lots of Lizzie Warrens neighbors make sweet coin from this Ukraining aid. Unless Raytheon "donated" the killing machines.

Anyone in Congress own Raytheon stock? That voted Yeah for the Ukraine aid?

NDAA bill coming up for a vote.........anyone care?

nopexactly

That is your complaint?

Maybe you should start a new thread that addresses this issue.

giving away candy (javelins) to our frenemies is suddenly NOT a matter of national security ? Or is following the money, who benefitted financially from the "military aid" belongs on, say.....the TAATS thread? Irregardless, why can't you engage in a national security issue (killing machine gifts ) or....do you just wanna talk about trump on every single thread.

You quoted me and chose to focus on something that wasn't being discussed. We can discuss the great military industrial complex all you wish....why didn't you comment on the point of the post? Seems to me that we all benefit financially from the trillions spent by the DoD...until our kids have to pay the bill.

In short, you lil band of guys......look around. You turn people off. They don't join, engage. Why bother? Most unwelcoming group of 6-8 people I have evah read. oh....look, 3 guys online. And all of them the same people , like laxpower days

You don't have to bother...none of us is forced to play the game, but should take a look in the mirror when it comes to turning people off. How many user names do YOU have now?

If any place that is NOT the place to say "stay on topic"....its the politics page.

Right church, wrong pew.

[old salt]

MDLF76 :
we see...much more blatant and open pro-Russia moves....

Plz specify.

[old salt]

Because I don't believe that Trump intended to not release the aid.

Great. Why did he hold it in the first place? This'll be a swell story from you....why did Trump place a hold on that aid?

You're seriously so stubborn that you're going to pretend you're so stupid, that gee whiz, you can't figure out what Trump was doing with the Ukraine and Biden.

No one is buying your act here. You know exactly what Trump did. You know it's wrong. But you're so mad at the Dems, the media, and anyone except Trump that you're going to pretend like you don't get why Trump is being impeached.

There's millions of guys just like you, all across our country.

You are BEGGING for Karma to exact a toll for this silliness.

The WB, his sleazy tweeting coup plotting lawyer, & Schiff.

There it is. This is a battle over who you hate more.

And the little D's lose that battle with you every time.

You're making my pont. The MSM only cover's Ukraine when they can somehow turn it into a knock on Trump.[/color]

Knock on Trump? Oh, heaven's no. Everything Trump and his personal lawyer did in the Ukraine makes perfect sense. Any day now, the now famous and super serious investigation into US crime in the Ukraine will bear fruit, right?

Personally? I think we should destroy the REAL villains here: namely, anyone who tell us what, precisely, the leader of the free word is doing.

Any suggestions as to how we can do this? Can we switch from America to the DDR for the rest of the year? Borrow their laws and methods? The leaks that give Americans facts about what their leaders are doing will go away, that's for doggone sure.

Hit it out of the park!

+1000

Another Oscar for the hyperbolic drama queen. The more that comes out, the less there, there.

I know you worship unelected federal bureaucrats & think they can do no wrong, but the President sets our foreign policy.

This is an overhyped telephone game about a policy dispute. Yes.Trump was using the release of the aid for leverage.
There's no evidence that the aid would not be released by 30 Sept.

Foreign policy is influenced by domestic political considerations -- what a shock.
It's not unreasonable to ask for information about what came out of Ukraine during the '16 campaign & for an accounting of Biden family dealings with Ukraine. Trump has also been using the imbalance in military aid to shame our EU/NATO allies into doing more. There was a NATO summit sched for late Sept.

Of course the officials in the State Dept, DoD & NSC who work with their Ukrainian counterparts develop as affinity for the Ukrainian cause, as do the Congress members influenced by their lobbyists. Trump has been begrudging of releasing ALL foreign aid & expects something in return, whoever the recipient.

The more that comes out about the WB, his tactics, lawyer & dealings with Schiff & staff, the less pure his motives & tactics appear & the more obvious it beomes that this is a well orchestrated palace coup, abusing the impeachment process to damage Trump going into the election.
Just read the WB lawyer's tweets to see what this really is.

[Moved to Impeachment thread]