JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[old salt]

Seemingly was not going to happen without a whistlebower.

It is more likely that the Ukrainians thought it was not going to happen. That is good enough....similar to an announcement of an investigation being enough to inflict damage.... like reopening the investigation into Hillary's emails. Nothing there but damage done. Old Salt isn't as stupid as he appears.

Nope, he's not.

It was ALWAYS going to happen. The funds had to be authorized or lost by 30 Sept.
(R) Senators weren't going to let that happen.
A quiet ph call from Rob Portman nudged Trump off the dime.
The aid was released before the WB complaint was leaked.

There is no bottom.

WB or not, there's no way Trump was going to buck the (R) Senators on this.

You speaking for him or is that your opinion? “No way” is pretty definitive. When did you speak to him?

Rob Portman told me, ...through my tv screen.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/0 ... ine-021443

[a fan]

It was ALWAYS going to happen. The funds had to be authorized or lost by 30 Sept.
(R) Senators weren't going to let that happen.
A quiet ph call from Rob Portman nudged Trump off the dime.
The aid was released before the WB complaint was leaked.

So he got caught, and "fixed it" later....so now we're all good G.

[njbill]

When was the call between Trump and Portman? Did Portman know about the whistleblower complaint at the time of the call? Trump knew.

[DocBarrister]

The fact that you focus on Ukrainian corruption while ignoring the filthy, immoral, and murderous detritus of Russia only reflects your truly distorted, delusional perspective on the world, Old Salt.

DocBarrister

How about, it's not our fight & none of our business.
Go play with your reset button.

On a related note, Macron declares NATO brain dead without US leadership :

It’s our fight if Russia interferes with our elections and invades a sovereign nation in Europe.

And Ukraine is definitely OUR BUSINESS ... that nation shares a border with no fewer than four NATO allies: Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, and Romania. That’s why no president should screw around with the military security of Ukraine in order to extort the Ukrainian government for their own political benefit.

All of the corrupt, reckless, and moronic things Donald Trump has done doesn’t seem to bother you. But you criticize Hillary Clinton’s good faith attempt at a diplomatic reset with Russia?!?

Your hypocrisy truly is astounding.

DocBarrister

Perhaps our self-admitted brain dead NATO allies could join us in doing something about this :
https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... to-forces/

Criticizing NATO allies (again) ... just what a Russian mole would do.

DocBarrister

I'm welcoming our NATO allies to join us on the E front. We're all in for the Poles & the Balts.
NATO's largest & wealthiest EU member remains worfully unprepared.
Criticism of NATO laggards is still warranted.
Your sudden hawkishness against Russia smells of political opportunism.
Have you found your souvenir reset button yet ?

You do understand that there is something very wrong with someone’s perspective when they criticize Hillary Clinton and U.S. allies more than Vladimir Putin and his murderous regime?

In fact, it’s difficult to recall any criticism from you against Putin and his crime lords. You have never explained that. Never ....

DocBarrister

Putin's malevolence is a given in every discussion. Selectively whining about it, only when you find it a politically advantageous talking point, then questioning the patriotism of anyone who doesn't join you, demonstrates how phoney you are. I don't recall you coming to Mitt's defense when Obama mocked him for naming Russia as our most dangerous adversary, or questioning Clinton's patriotism when she politically opportunistically offered Putin a reset button, emboldening him to move into Syria, Crimea & the Donbass.

I offer my opinions as to what motivates Putin & (more importantly) the Russian people & my ideas on how best to contain & deter Putin, while peacefully coexisting with Russia, until Putin passes from the scene, without alienating the Russian people to the point of permanent enmity.

The Cold War was a tremendous victory for the US, NATO & democracy. I don't want to see us fritter it away, for partisan political advantage.
Our slide backward toward Cold War levels of confrontation is alarming, dangerous & tremendously wasteful. Especially when our NATO allies are not willing to join us in our politically motivated escalation. Russia is not (yet) an existential threat to the US, but we're motivating them to become one with a foreign policy that is being used for domestic political score settling.

And your approach to not frittering away our Cold War victory over Russia is to support a president who practically kneels before Putin every time he seems him?

Is that a joke?!?

DocBarrister

Kneels before Putin ? By deploying much more combat power to NATO's E front than his predecessor & the rest of NATO combined ?
Or by launching airstrikes on a Syrian airbase manned by Russian troops or killing 200 Russian mercenaries along the Euphrates ?
By extending the Magnitsky sanctions when the EU won't even vote on them ?

Some key facts you conveniently left out:

Trump opposed sanctions on Russia but was forced to sign on when both the House and Senate voted for extending sanctions by more than 95% ... far more than necessary to override any veto.

The Trump administration also warned Russia, and therefore Syria, where they were going to hit, making the airstrikes a meaningless $58 million reality television show to demonstrate how tough he was on Russia and Syria.

And 1,000 non-combat troops in Poland aren’t making up for Trump’s constant bad-mouthing of NATO and his disgraceful betrayal of America’s Kurdish allies in Syria ... damaging acts that have left every American ally in the world wondering if Trump and the United States will honor their commitments.

Really, Trump supporters ... is the racial animus that fuels Trump’s base really worth wrecking our country?

DocBarrister

[old salt]

DocB :
Some key facts you conveniently left out:

Trump opposed sanctions on Russia but was forced to sign on when both the House and Senate voted for extending sanctions by more than 95% ... far more than necessary to override any veto.

The Trump administration also warned Russia, and therefore Syria, where they were going to hit, making the airstrikes a meaningless $58 million reality television show to demonstrate how tough he was on Russia and Syria.

And 1,000 non-combat troops in Poland aren’t making up for Trump’s constant bad-mouthing of NATO and his disgraceful betrayal of America’s Kurdish allies in Syria ... damaging acts that have left every American ally in the world wondering if Trump and the United States will honor their commitments.

Really, Trump supporters ... is the racial animus that fuels Trump’s base really worth wrecking our country?

Bill Browder praised Trump for approving the Magnitsky sanctions when our EU allies would not.
Trump could have easily oppposed them.

1000 non-combat troops in Poland ? We've maintained an entire Armored Brigade Combat Team in Poland since Jan 2017, when Trump took office.
(those include real tanks, like the one's we haven't sent into Syria)

The airstrike destroyed Syria's capability to deliver nerve gas munitions from the air.
A capability which they did not reconstitute.
A classic example of a targeted surgical strike, wirh minimal collateral damage.

Abandon the Kurds ? You're a few news cycles behind. afan's reporting we've sent in tanks to protect the Kurd's oil fields.

[a fan]

You're a few news cycles behind. afan's reporting we've sent in tanks to protect the Kurd's oil fields.

Boy, that a fan guy sure is dumb...for believing and quoting old salt, right?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... s-to-syria

SecDef Esper confirms -- a mechanized task force will reinforce our existing base at Deir ez Zor.

Any Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles & other armored vehicles will come from an Armored Brigade Combat Team already on a rotational deployment to Kuwait.
We also had an Army Ranger Regiment with Stryker wheeled armored fighting vehicles based in Manbij.
https://www.stripes.com/news/middle-eas ... e-1.457959
There was video of Strykers in the withdrawal to Iraq.

Yesterday, Gen Keane (ret) said the plan was to enable the SDF to occupy approx 60% of the territory they previously controlled in NE Syria, before the Turkish incursion & the Russians & Syrian National Army moved in. That territory would be E of a line from Deir ez Zour, N to an unspecified point on the boundary of the Turkish border safety zone.

This will be interesting.

[old salt]

You're a few news cycles behind. afan's reporting we've sent in tanks to protect the Kurd's oil fields.

Boy, that a fan guy sure is dumb...for believing and quoting old salt, right?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... s-to-syria

SecDef Esper confirms -- a mechanized task force will reinforce our existing base at Deir ez Zor.

Any Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles & other armored vehicles will come from an Armored Brigade Combat Team already on a rotational deployment to Kuwait.
We also had an Army Ranger Regiment with Stryker wheeled armored fighting vehicles based in Manbij.
https://www.stripes.com/news/middle-eas ... e-1.457959
There was video of Strykers in the withdrawal to Iraq.

Yesterday, Gen Keane (ret) said the plan was to enable the SDF to occupy approx 60% of the territory they previously controlled in NE Syria, before the Turkish incursion & the Russians & Syrian National Army moved in. That territory would be E of a line from Deir ez Zour, N to an unspecified point on the boundary of the Turkish border safety zone.

This will be interesting.

You have a reading disability -- "will" indicates futurity. We were speculating about what might be sent.
I was dubious that tanks would be sent. No tanks have been sent.

[a fan]

I can read just fine. You were ripping on me for using "talking points"----implying I was quoting Maddow or something.

I was quoting our Secretary of Defense from YOUR citation. Heaven forbid I take the man at his word. Or take one of your own citations at face value.

Sometimes I forget we're in the Trump era where we're not supposed to take anyone---let alone our leaders----literally.

Boy, am I dumb to assume our leaders mean what they tell us, right? I should have just tuned in to Hannity like the rest of you...

[old salt]

Syria update :

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2019 ... d_brief_nl

...over a few weeks in October across a long but narrow strip of Syrian land running 300 miles along the Turkish border. It looked like a 21st-century great-power scramble to redraw the map. In reality, not much territory changed hands. So after almost a month of chaos, the U.S. is caught in a new maelstrom of competing proxies, its weak leverage further damaged...

The supposed winners—Turkey, Russia, and the Syrian regime—have gained some slapdash spheres of influence...

...the vacuum along the border has given way to a patchwork of outside forces and the proxies they back. “There’s so many armed forces driving around with different flags,” Steve Gumaer, president of the aid organization Partners Relief & Development, who recently returned from a visit to northeastern Syria, told me. He said members of his team saw two Syrian personnel carriers, as well as Russian carriers, Turkish tanks, and vehicles of the Free Syrian Army, the militias Turkey relied on to help push back the Kurds. Perhaps some 30 groups or factions make up the Turkish-backed proxy forces operating there, according to Oula Alrifai, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, citing Kurdish sources. These include Islamist extremists. “Some elements,” she told me, “are more radical than others.”

And in a sign of the chaotic trajectory of U.S. policy in Syria’s civil war, some of the militias now backed by Turkey were once American proxies, meaning America’s former partners have proved quite effective at helping dislodge their current ones. As Michael Kofman, an expert on the Russian military at CNA, put it to me: “It’s actually U.S. proxies attacking U.S. proxies on behalf of a U.S. ally,” Turkey.

Yet the losses aren’t as great as they could have been. The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces remain in control of much of northeastern Syria, and nearly all of its resources, including oil and gas. Kurdish militias have pulled back from a strip along the border but, except for a roughly 75-mile chunk in the middle that’s now controlled by Turkish proxies, their governance structures remain in place, according to a U.S. official who spoke on background, and Dareen Khalifa, an analyst for the International Crisis Group who visited the region recently.

Crucially, these include the major detention camps for ISIS fighters—despite initial fears that the SDF would stop guarding those prisons to focus on self-defense against Turkey, so far it remains in control of thousands of suspected ISIS fighters. Feared mass prison breaks from those facilities never materialized, although Secretary of Defense Mark Esper at one point admitted that perhaps as many as 100 fighters got free. (Trump has since tweeted that Turkey captured “numerous” escaped fighters—plus the wife and sister of the late ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, killed in a U.S. raid in October.)

And though Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has vowed to take back “every inch” of his country, he still lacks the forces to do it. The Russians have deployed a few hundred troops to help patrol the Turkish border, but it’s too long for them to fully monitor and, according to Kofman, they don’t want to be there much more than the Americans do. “It’s actually an added burden to them,” he told me.

As for the Turks, they’ve achieved their key goals of pushing Kurdish militias away from their border, obviating what Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has characterized as a security threat due to those militias’ ties to Kurdish militants within Turkey. But the remaining strength of the Syrian Democratic Forces has left intact the political threat of an autonomous Kurdish zone standing as an example to Turkey’s own Kurdish population.

Throughout, one major dynamic has stayed consistent: The future of Syria depends as much on foreign powers as on the Syrians themselves. This was clear in the cease-fire negotiations of October—in which both Russia and the United States struck separate deals with Turkey, and without any Syrians formally signing on to either agreement.

The U.S. has shifted where it is in Syria, but not what it wants. Esper has said that keeping ISIS defeated is still the goal, and the military keeps issuing a steady stream of press releases about counter-ISIS actions in Syria. Now, however, Trump has added the mission to “guard the oil” in eastern Syria; the oil fields at issue, too, have been and remain under the control of the SDF.

So the U.S. retains enough of a presence to influence events somewhat, particularly by providing air cover to its local Kurdish-led partners against ISIS (although not, importantly, against America’s NATO ally Turkey, whose proxies continue to battle the Kurds in some areas despite the cease-fires). As a combatant in Syria’s civil war, the U.S. has some leverage in negotiations over how it all ends, but to a lesser degree than Russia, Turkey, and Iran, who collectively have invested more in Syria.

It is also now in a stronger relative position to make demands in any future negotiations to settle Syria’s fate. Russia will seek to preserve a role for its ally Assad; Turkey will seek to further undermine Kurdish aspirations in the country. Neither of these things may be in American interests, but Donald Trump has made clear that he sees America’s main interest as leaving.

The clear losers are again the ordinary Syrians, condemned to flee their homes or risk death in the cross fire of the ever-shifting battlefield their home has become.

[cradleandshoot]

Where is the French Foriegn Legion when you need them? Good mercenaries are so hard to find.

[DocBarrister]

DocB :
Some key facts you conveniently left out:

Trump opposed sanctions on Russia but was forced to sign on when both the House and Senate voted for extending sanctions by more than 95% ... far more than necessary to override any veto.

The Trump administration also warned Russia, and therefore Syria, where they were going to hit, making the airstrikes a meaningless $58 million reality television show to demonstrate how tough he was on Russia and Syria.

And 1,000 non-combat troops in Poland aren’t making up for Trump’s constant bad-mouthing of NATO and his disgraceful betrayal of America’s Kurdish allies in Syria ... damaging acts that have left every American ally in the world wondering if Trump and the United States will honor their commitments.

Really, Trump supporters ... is the racial animus that fuels Trump’s base really worth wrecking our country?

Bill Browder praised Trump for approving the Magnitsky sanctions when our EU allies would not.
Trump could have easily oppposed them.

1000 non-combat troops in Poland ? We've maintained an entire Armored Brigade Combat Team in Poland since Jan 2017, when Trump took office.
(those include real tanks, like the one's we haven't sent into Syria)

The airstrike destroyed Syria's capability to deliver nerve gas munitions from the air.
A capability which they did not reconstitute.
A classic example of a targeted surgical strike, wirh minimal collateral damage.

Abandon the Kurds ? You're a few news cycles behind. afan's reporting we've sent in tanks to protect the Kurd's oil fields.

I will not criticize you or your opinions on Veterans Day.

To you and all the military veterans on this forum, thank you for your service and have a good Veterans Day.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

I've met Bill Browder, and recently.
No fan of Vlad's Useful Idiot is Browder.

https://time.com/5340545/bill-browder-v ... ald-trump/

https://www.dw.com/en/bill-browder-trum ... v-48755495

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/view-kr ... d=60375934

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1532043065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IsP_tZ46s

[old salt]

I've met Bill Browder, and recently.
No fan of Vlad's Useful Idiot is Browder.

https://time.com/5340545/bill-browder-v ... ald-trump/

https://www.dw.com/en/bill-browder-trum ... v-48755495

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/view-kr ... d=60375934

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1532043065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IsP_tZ46s

I saw a tv appearance by Browder, shortly after Trump approved additional Magnitsky Act sanctions in Dec '17 (see below)
I remember it distinctly because Browder seemed happily surprised. He had been lobbying hard for them.
Guess it's a case of what have you done for me lately. As a US ex-pat UK citizen, Beowder should spend more of his efforts lobbying the UK & give Trump a break for doing more than his EU & UK clients.

https://time.com/5220097/despite-the-ap ... on-russia/

the Trump Administration leveled financial sanctions and travel restrictions against 50-plus individuals accused of corruption and human-rights abuses under both the Magnitsky Act (named for a Russian whistle-blower) and its international variant, the Global Magnitsky Act. Among those included on the sanctions lists were the son of Russian prosecutor general Yuri Chaika and Putin-backed strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, the President of Chechnya.

[MDlaxfan76]

I've met Bill Browder, and recently.
No fan of Vlad's Useful Idiot is Browder.

https://time.com/5340545/bill-browder-v ... ald-trump/

https://www.dw.com/en/bill-browder-trum ... v-48755495

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/view-kr ... d=60375934

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1532043065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IsP_tZ46s

I saw a tv appearance by Browder, shortly after Trump approved additional Magnitsky Act sanctions in Dec '17 (see below)
I remember it distinctly because Browder seemed happily surprised. He had been lobbying hard for them.
Guess it's a case of what have you done for me lately. As a US ex-pat UK citizen, Beowder should spend more of his efforts lobbying the UK & give Trump a break for doing more than his EU & UK clients.

https://time.com/5220097/despite-the-ap ... on-russia/

the Trump Administration leveled financial sanctions and travel restrictions against 50-plus individuals accused of corruption and human-rights abuses under both the Magnitsky Act (named for a Russian whistle-blower) and its international variant, the Global Magnitsky Act. Among those included on the sanctions lists were the son of Russian prosecutor general Yuri Chaika and Putin-backed strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, the President of Chechnya.

I think what you are referring to, certainly the Time article is, would be the additional new individuals named for sanctions using Magnitsky. These had been lobbied for hard, and very fully supported by Congress.

Indeed, Trump had delayed them going forward for many months, and ultimately acquiesced.

Someone clearly persuaded him that he needed to institute them given all the flak incoming from the Dems (and the rest of us) for being Vlad's man in DC. Note that because the Russians knew about these specific sanctions all those months, they had the opportunity to move their funds out of reach, most likely using the shadow banking system in Cyprus, etc that we have not been able to include in these sanctions though we're trying. But the sanctions do put a big crimp on these with which the Russians named can access parts of the financial system, travel, etc.

If one was cynical, one would say that Vlad had given the thumbs up, given the politics.

But even if one is less cynical, we should nevertheless not buy into anything more than Trump was between a rock and a hard place. He delayed and the pressure was heavy.

But, sure, Browder would indeed have been 'happily surprised' given that he'd worked hard to achieve them and it was not a foregone conclusion that, though they'd been passed by Congress, they'd actually get implemented by Trump and Co.

[old salt]

I've met Bill Browder, and recently.
No fan of Vlad's Useful Idiot is Browder.

https://time.com/5340545/bill-browder-v ... ald-trump/

https://www.dw.com/en/bill-browder-trum ... v-48755495

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/view-kr ... d=60375934

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1532043065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IsP_tZ46s

I saw a tv appearance by Browder, shortly after Trump approved additional Magnitsky Act sanctions in Dec '17 (see below)
I remember it distinctly because Browder seemed happily surprised. He had been lobbying hard for them.
Guess it's a case of what have you done for me lately. As a US ex-pat UK citizen, Beowder should spend more of his efforts lobbying the UK & give Trump a break for doing more than his EU & UK clients.

https://time.com/5220097/despite-the-ap ... on-russia/

the Trump Administration leveled financial sanctions and travel restrictions against 50-plus individuals accused of corruption and human-rights abuses under both the Magnitsky Act (named for a Russian whistle-blower) and its international variant, the Global Magnitsky Act. Among those included on the sanctions lists were the son of Russian prosecutor general Yuri Chaika and Putin-backed strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, the President of Chechnya.

I think what you are referring to, certainly the Time article is, would be the additional new individuals named for sanctions using Magnitsky. These had been lobbied for hard, and very fully supported by Congress.

Indeed, Trump had delayed them going forward for many months, and ultimately acquiesced.

Someone clearly persuaded him that he needed to institute them given all the flak incoming from the Dems (and the rest of us) for being Vlad's man in DC. Note that because the Russians knew about these specific sanctions all those months, they had the opportunity to move their funds out of reach, most likely using the shadow banking system in Cyprus, etc that we have not been able to include in these sanctions though we're trying. But the sanctions do put a big crimp on these with which the Russians named can access parts of the financial system, travel, etc.

If one was cynical, one would say that Vlad had given the thumbs up, given the politics.

But even if one is less cynical, we should nevertheless not buy into anything more than Trump was between a rock and a hard place. He delayed and the pressure was heavy.

But, sure, Browder would indeed have been 'happily surprised' given that he'd worked hard to achieve them and it was not a foregone conclusion that, though they'd been passed by Congress, they'd actually get implemented by Trump and Co.

Does it give you pause that Ian Bremmer (the author of the Time article I linked) was willing to give Trump credit for this, & other strong anti-Russia actions taken ? It should.

[calourie]

I've met Bill Browder, and recently.
No fan of Vlad's Useful Idiot is Browder.

https://time.com/5340545/bill-browder-v ... ald-trump/

https://www.dw.com/en/bill-browder-trum ... v-48755495

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/view-kr ... d=60375934

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1532043065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IsP_tZ46s

I saw a tv appearance by Browder, shortly after Trump approved additional Magnitsky Act sanctions in Dec '17 (see below)
I remember it distinctly because Browder seemed happily surprised. He had been lobbying hard for them.
Guess it's a case of what have you done for me lately. As a US ex-pat UK citizen, Beowder should spend more of his efforts lobbying the UK & give Trump a break for doing more than his EU & UK clients.

https://time.com/5220097/despite-the-ap ... on-russia/

the Trump Administration leveled financial sanctions and travel restrictions against 50-plus individuals accused of corruption and human-rights abuses under both the Magnitsky Act (named for a Russian whistle-blower) and its international variant, the Global Magnitsky Act. Among those included on the sanctions lists were the son of Russian prosecutor general Yuri Chaika and Putin-backed strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, the President of Chechnya.

I think what you are referring to, certainly the Time article is, would be the additional new individuals named for sanctions using Magnitsky. These had been lobbied for hard, and very fully supported by Congress.

Indeed, Trump had delayed them going forward for many months, and ultimately acquiesced.

Someone clearly persuaded him that he needed to institute them given all the flak incoming from the Dems (and the rest of us) for being Vlad's man in DC. Note that because the Russians knew about these specific sanctions all those months, they had the opportunity to move their funds out of reach, most likely using the shadow banking system in Cyprus, etc that we have not been able to include in these sanctions though we're trying. But the sanctions do put a big crimp on these with which the Russians named can access parts of the financial system, travel, etc.

If one was cynical, one would say that Vlad had given the thumbs up, given the politics.

But even if one is less cynical, we should nevertheless not buy into anything more than Trump was between a rock and a hard place. He delayed and the pressure was heavy.

But, sure, Browder would indeed have been 'happily surprised' given that he'd worked hard to achieve them and it was not a foregone conclusion that, though they'd been passed by Congress, they'd actually get implemented by Trump and Co.

Does it give you pause that Ian Bremmer (the author of the Time article I linked) was willing to give Trump credit for this, & other strong anti-Russia actions taken ? It should.

Does it not give you pause, Old Salt, that the credit Bremmer was willing to give Trump for as regards Ukraine now looks to have been totally undermined by Trump's actions toward Ukraine since early summer (the whole back channell lets listen to Moscow on this one thuggery) ?

[calourie]

Which isn't even to mention the totally corrupt political skulduggery the Trump WH went through in its' seeming interest in aligning itself with Russia's wishes.

[old salt]

I've met Bill Browder, and recently.
No fan of Vlad's Useful Idiot is Browder.

https://time.com/5340545/bill-browder-v ... ald-trump/

https://www.dw.com/en/bill-browder-trum ... v-48755495

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/view-kr ... d=60375934

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1532043065

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IsP_tZ46s

I saw a tv appearance by Browder, shortly after Trump approved additional Magnitsky Act sanctions in Dec '17 (see below)
I remember it distinctly because Browder seemed happily surprised. He had been lobbying hard for them.
Guess it's a case of what have you done for me lately. As a US ex-pat UK citizen, Beowder should spend more of his efforts lobbying the UK & give Trump a break for doing more than his EU & UK clients.

https://time.com/5220097/despite-the-ap ... on-russia/

the Trump Administration leveled financial sanctions and travel restrictions against 50-plus individuals accused of corruption and human-rights abuses under both the Magnitsky Act (named for a Russian whistle-blower) and its international variant, the Global Magnitsky Act. Among those included on the sanctions lists were the son of Russian prosecutor general Yuri Chaika and Putin-backed strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, the President of Chechnya.

I think what you are referring to, certainly the Time article is, would be the additional new individuals named for sanctions using Magnitsky. These had been lobbied for hard, and very fully supported by Congress.

Indeed, Trump had delayed them going forward for many months, and ultimately acquiesced.

Someone clearly persuaded him that he needed to institute them given all the flak incoming from the Dems (and the rest of us) for being Vlad's man in DC. Note that because the Russians knew about these specific sanctions all those months, they had the opportunity to move their funds out of reach, most likely using the shadow banking system in Cyprus, etc that we have not been able to include in these sanctions though we're trying. But the sanctions do put a big crimp on these with which the Russians named can access parts of the financial system, travel, etc.

If one was cynical, one would say that Vlad had given the thumbs up, given the politics.

But even if one is less cynical, we should nevertheless not buy into anything more than Trump was between a rock and a hard place. He delayed and the pressure was heavy.

But, sure, Browder would indeed have been 'happily surprised' given that he'd worked hard to achieve them and it was not a foregone conclusion that, though they'd been passed by Congress, they'd actually get implemented by Trump and Co.

Does it give you pause that Ian Bremmer (the author of the Time article I linked) was willing to give Trump credit for this, & other strong anti-Russia actions taken ? It should.

Does it not give you pause, Old Salt, that the credit Bremmer was willing to give Trump for as regards Ukraine now looks to have been totally undermined by Trump's actions toward Ukraine since early summer (the whole back channell lets listen to Moscow on this one thuggery) ?

No. Ukraine still got the aid before Sept 30
Zelensky is now the US MSM's darling
Congress members of both parties are rushing to the cameras, pledging indefinite support for the new corruption-free Ukraine.
Our craven MSM has converted those plucky Ukrainians into freedom fighters.
Ukraine's K St lobbyists earned their fees.

[calourie]

Ukraine got the aid only because of a court ruling, had nothing to do with Trump or his obvious intentions.

[calourie]

Your deep-state phobia is clouding your judgement.