Trump's Russian Collusion

[LandM]

TLD - your quote, the 'Congress" - tough to legislate when the oxygen is impeachment all day long - work on the people business;
Impeach all day long but what is being created is that the next admin is going to have to deal with this double guessing and the votes are not in the Senate now so if it makes a certain population feel good about themselves, go for it. He will be Impeached, the Senate will not convict and he will be re-elected in 2020, what did you accomplish in the past 3 years, be careful what you wish for - waste of taxpayer funds. So what is the next crisis? Are the Kurds going to build the next drama, how about a phone call with the Mexican Prez? Nixon should have been - the others were just political garbage IMHO. Doing something illegal is one thing - political theater and hatred for a person is another.

BTW, I do not believe you have to do time to be CIC. FDR down to Wilson - none served and amazingly this country survived through the heat - there were some skirmishes going on then as well...........

[holmes435]

TLD - your quote, the 'Congress" - tough to legislate when the oxygen is impeachment all day long - work on the people business;
Impeach all day long but what is being created is that the next admin is going to have to deal with this double guessing and the votes are not in the Senate now so if it makes a certain population feel good about themselves, go for it. He will be Impeached, the Senate will not convict and he will be re-elected in 2020, what did you accomplish in the past 3 years, be careful what you wish for - waste of taxpayer funds. So what is the next crisis? Are the Kurds going to build the next drama, how about a phone call with the Mexican Prez? Nixon should have been - the others were just political garbage IMHO. Doing something illegal is one thing - political theater and hatred for a person is another.

BTW, I do not believe you have to do time to be CIC. FDR down to Wilson - none served and amazingly this country survived through the heat - there were some skirmishes going on then as well...........

For better or worse, the House has passed like 75 bills since Pelosi announced the impeachment inquiry. The "Congress isn't doing anything except impeachment" is a false right-wing talking point. Well, concerning the House anyway.

[LandM]

Hplmes - not right wing - what legislation have they passed that matters to the average population - 75 bills is allot - what has benefited the average person?

[MDlaxfan76]

TLD - your quote, the 'Congress" - tough to legislate when the oxygen is impeachment all day long - work on the people business;
Impeach all day long but what is being created is that the next admin is going to have to deal with this double guessing and the votes are not in the Senate now so if it makes a certain population feel good about themselves, go for it. He will be Impeached, the Senate will not convict and he will be re-elected in 2020, what did you accomplish in the past 3 years, be careful what you wish for - waste of taxpayer funds. So what is the next crisis? Are the Kurds going to build the next drama, how about a phone call with the Mexican Prez? Nixon should have been - the others were just political garbage IMHO. Doing something illegal is one thing - political theater and hatred for a person is another.

BTW, I do not believe you have to do time to be CIC. FDR down to Wilson - none served and amazingly this country survived through the heat - there were some skirmishes going on then as well...........

For better or worse, the House has passed like 75 bills since Pelosi announced the impeachment inquiry. The "Congress isn't doing anything except impeachment" is a false right-wing talking point. Well, concerning the House anyway.

Doesn't stop the whining though that post Trump nothing can possibly get done because it will be impeachment after impeachment...

[MDlaxfan76]

Hplmes - not right wing - what legislation have they passed that matters to the average population - 75 bills is allot - what has benefited the average person?

Very little has been taken up by the Senate...

It's an entirely right-wing talking point, made possible by McConnell having no interest other than judges.

[Typical Lax Dad]

TLD - your quote, the 'Congress" - tough to legislate when the oxygen is impeachment all day long - work on the people business;
Impeach all day long but what is being created is that the next admin is going to have to deal with this double guessing and the votes are not in the Senate now so if it makes a certain population feel good about themselves, go for it. He will be Impeached, the Senate will not convict and he will be re-elected in 2020, what did you accomplish in the past 3 years, be careful what you wish for - waste of taxpayer funds. So what is the next crisis? Are the Kurds going to build the next drama, how about a phone call with the Mexican Prez? Nixon should have been - the others were just political garbage IMHO. Doing something illegal is one thing - political theater and hatred for a person is another.

BTW, I do not believe you have to do time to be CIC. FDR down to Wilson - none served and amazingly this country survived through the heat - there were some skirmishes going on then as well...........

How about the POTUS should stop doing stupid sh*t..... You think the Inspector General found the whistleblower’s complaint Urgent and credible for no good reason. As for having to serve time, I have no problem with Trump or any other POTUS not serving....but I am not going to look the other way or make excuses for the guy when a guy dodged multiple times.... you can if you want to.

[seacoaster]

TLD - your quote, the 'Congress" - tough to legislate when the oxygen is impeachment all day long - work on the people business;
Impeach all day long but what is being created is that the next admin is going to have to deal with this double guessing and the votes are not in the Senate now so if it makes a certain population feel good about themselves, go for it. He will be Impeached, the Senate will not convict and he will be re-elected in 2020, what did you accomplish in the past 3 years, be careful what you wish for - waste of taxpayer funds. So what is the next crisis? Are the Kurds going to build the next drama, how about a phone call with the Mexican Prez? Nixon should have been - the others were just political garbage IMHO. Doing something illegal is one thing - political theater and hatred for a person is another.

BTW, I do not believe you have to do time to be CIC. FDR down to Wilson - none served and amazingly this country survived through the heat - there were some skirmishes going on then as well...........

For better or worse, the House has passed like 75 bills since Pelosi announced the impeachment inquiry. The "Congress isn't doing anything except impeachment" is a false right-wing talking point. Well, concerning the House anyway.

Beat me to it. Since January 3, the House has considered 5,758 bills and passed 522.

https://www.congress.gov/bills-with-cha ... se-by-date

Maybe Google First, then post, to avoid stepping into the FNC bullsh$t narrative.

[ggait]

42% of Americans are politically independent. Is it so hard to believe that many of the posters here are actually independents and not Democrats? Just because a number of posters are to the left of you on some things (and right on many others) doesn't make them Democrats when they literally say they are not Democrats.

So, state the Republicans you have voted for in the past and the ones you are comfortable voting for in the present. That should not be too hard if you are truly an 'independent'. I am an actual Independent; liked Clinton and Obama (actually REALLY liked Obama), did not like George W Bush (at all; I consider him to be the worst POTUS ever). I'd vote for Joe Biden. I'd also vote for Nikki Haley, happily.

Holmes, PB -- there's actually hardly any real independents when it comes to voting. Despite the fact that 38% of Americans say they are independent. Independents are mostly a big myth in today's tribal polarized voting electorate.

17% of self-described Indies vote just like partisan Dems. 13% of Indies vote just like partisan Reps. There's only 7% that truly have no partisan lean -- and those 7% tend not to vote since they're not really that interested in politics. So the actual voting split is more like 48% D, 39% R, and maybe 5% true indie swing voters.

While indie/leaners almost always vote like partisans, they're independent usually because they differ from the party line on a couple of social issues like legalized pot, gay marriage, immigration.

I'm a registered Indie, but vote 70/30 Dem. Obama, Romney, Hillary. And will vote 100/0 Dem until Trump is gone. So I'm only slightly independent in normal times, and totally a Dem at present.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... ependents/

[LandM]

TLD - my first real boss went from an E-8 to an O-4, retired as an O-5. He was the best thing that happened to me. He was caught outside the wire during TET, more nads then allot of folks out here. Along the way he made a stop at Berkeley as an AF recruiter. His shop was firebombed, rocks daily and the universal sign of peace every other minute. Same knuckleheads doing the damage get their draft notice - be a grunt or Marine or take a cozy job in the AF. The bu$$heads harassing him became his best buddy - you need IMHO to get out more - it happened during that period. I am sure OS has more stories then i but those who did the time are not holding it against them. Perhaps the elite kid could go do some time - plenty of opportunities - you coach them - send them on there way and free up the DACA kids.

MD - the right wing conspiracy is just that - what relevant legislation has been passed. BTW, there is a thing call compromise......seems both parties lost that - maybe some Jamo and a fire could fix that. I was always taught - takes two to tango. What relevant bill has been approved that helps the the average day Joe - you have nothing so we get the right wing BS comment - compromise as you know in business works all day long

[seacoaster]

I gave you a simple tool to evaluate what legislation has passed. Go read for a while before calling folks out and diminishing their efforts from a perspective of seemingly no knowledge.

[LandM]

Sea - attempted to go through the list - did not seen anything helping the average taxpayer;

TLD - you cannot help people from saying sh*t, you can ignore it and move on....be real - not sure if you have negotiated the sale of company but you can easily go from king sh*t to zero in 2.5 seconds - the senate will not convict and you have wasted three years - I hope that makes you feel good - now what - I want the tax dollars back

[foreverlax]

TLD - my first real boss went from an E-8 to an O-4, retired as an O-5. He was the best thing that happened to me. He was caught outside the wire during TET, more nads then allot of folks out here. Along the way he made a stop at Berkeley as an AF recruiter. His shop was firebombed, rocks daily and the universal sign of peace every other minute. Same knuckleheads doing the damage get their draft notice - be a grunt or Marine or take a cozy job in the AF. The bu$$heads harassing him became his best buddy - you need IMHO to get out more - it happened during that period. I am sure OS has more stories then i but those who did the time are not holding it against them. Perhaps the elite kid could go do some time - plenty of opportunities - you coach them - send them on there way and free up the DACA kids.

MD - the right wing conspiracy is just that - what relevant legislation has been passed. BTW, there is a thing call compromise......seems both parties lost that - maybe some Jamo and a fire could fix that. I was always taught - takes two to tango. What relevant bill has been approved that helps the the average day Joe - you have nothing so we get the right wing BS comment - compromise as you know in business works all day long

The last bill of significance was the ACA, with 60 votes in the Senate.

Trump's tax bill was past by 51 votes in the Senate, using legislative "gimmicks".

[seacoaster]

You mean, in the 18 minutes between my posting the link and you typing up several responses here? Sure.

[LandM]

Sea,
Yep - looked at a few months - realized it was not gonna be a benefit and moved on. So we have ACA and looking for something else of relevance. Time is precious - no need to waste on details - what is the summary - you do not have one but hatred for the man - good luck with that.

[MDlaxfan76]

LandM,
You certainly won't get me to argue against 'compromise'.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of knuckleheads out there who think if you aren't 'fighting' for us, you're agin us.

Gerrymandering is a huge part of the problem. Forces the politicians to the extremes.

But you were trying to suggest that impeachment is getting in the way of legislation...that's simply not accurate. Right now it's the unwillingness of the McConnell-led Senate to consider any legislation passed by the House for which Trump won't guarantee his unwavering support...McConnell can't negotiate a 'compromise' on anything because he can't trust that Trump won't take whatever gets negotiated and then demagogue it, veto it anyway.

So, they're frozen in taking up legislation passed by the House.

[ggait]

Nice summary from the NY Times on the various defenses trotted out by the GOP for Trump.

TL/DR: they are all pathetic.

1. There was no quid pro quo.

Problem here is the mountain of evidence for the QPQ.

2. How could it have been a quid pro quo if the Ukrainians didn’t know about it?

Problem here is the evidence shows that the Ukrainians of course did know. And came within two days of making the required announcement on CNN.

3. It’s all just hearsay. And the whistle-blower is a partisan Democrat.

Again, mountain of corroborating evidence from people other than the WB who have testified first hand. And it is Trump who is keeping more first hand document and witness evidence from emerging -- Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompeo, etc.

4. It was a quid pro quo. But so what? This happens all the time.

I don't think Mulvaney or anyone else is still using this one.

5. It was a quid pro quo, but President Trump was only interested in rooting out corruption in Ukraine.

This one is hilarious. Thrice married, draft dodging, philandering, hush-money paying, tax cheating and compulsive lying sleazy Trump really cares about truth, justice and honesty in other countries?

6. It was a quid pro quo, but Mr. Trump had nothing to do with it.

Giuliani and Sondland and Mulvaney just all went rogue. This one is preposterous, given what the telcon summary says.

7. Fine. It was a quid pro quo. Trump ordered it. He did so for his own political benefit. The Ukrainians knew about it. That’s bad, but it’s not an impeachable offense.

Bribery is exactly what the Framers intended -- which is why they used that precise word. But this is probably the only thing that works. Don't care what the facts are -- just not gonna go there, you can't make me, I can't hear you.

8. It wasn’t a real quid pro quo because the Trump administration is too disorganized to pull off such a scheme.

There is an appeal to this one. But the fact mountain suggests Trump was capable of pulling this job off -- Zelensky had scheduled a CNN interview for 9/13 to deliver the deliverable. But Trump's cover got blown publicly so he had to release the funds on 9/11.

9. “I hardly know the gentleman.”

If all else fails, blame the coffee boy.

10. This is a coup by the Deep State! A decorated American soldier is a Ukrainian agent! The witnesses who have testified are “Never Trumpers”!

If all else fails, just say this about 27,000 times. It has worked before.

[seacoaster]

Sea,
Yep - looked at a few months - realized it was not gonna be a benefit and moved on. So we have ACA and looking for something else of relevance. Time is precious - no need to waste on details - what is the summary - you do not have one but hatred for the man - good luck with that.

So true; you waste little time on details. No question. You’re a big picture guy. Check.

[foreverlax]

Rand Paul made his case on Meet The Press

CHUCK TODD:

Let me ask the question this way, though. If you're the average American citizen watching this, should you be concerned that the president of the United States wanted a foreign government to help investigate a political rival? Do you understand why some people think that that’s an un — that that is , basically, abusing the office for political gain, to mess with the election?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

I think you're right, Chuck. But I think an equal number of people are upset that Hillary Clinton hired a British spy to hire Russians to get dirt called the Steele Dossier. So here's Hillary Clinton, in the middle of a campaign, hiring a foreign spy agency or a foreign spy —

CHUCK TODD:

Alright, you did it again to me. You did it again. You went back and said, "Okay, there's behavior that's bad over here. There's behavior that's bad over there." All that does is condition us for more bad behavior. When do we put a stop to this?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

No, but what it says is — no, what I'm asking for is that they be treated equally. And I think the American public's going to say, "If you didn't do anything to Hillary Clinton for hiring a foreign spy, why is it, all of a sudden, wrong for President Trump --

CHUCK TODD:

So two wrongs make a right?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

--to have a country investigate somebody-- well, what I would say is that people want them to be treated fairly. I'm not saying, two wrongs make a right. I'm not even saying I would've done it that way. All I'm saying is, is that you're going to impeach President Trump, and you're going to give Hillary Clinton, you know, let her skate? So then I think people see that as unfair. And so it becomes partisan. That's why no Republicans voted for impeachment.

[seacoaster]

Rand Paul made his case on Meet The Press

CHUCK TODD:

Let me ask the question this way, though. If you're the average American citizen watching this, should you be concerned that the president of the United States wanted a foreign government to help investigate a political rival? Do you understand why some people think that that’s an un — that that is , basically, abusing the office for political gain, to mess with the election?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

I think you're right, Chuck. But I think an equal number of people are upset that Hillary Clinton hired a British spy to hire Russians to get dirt called the Steele Dossier. So here's Hillary Clinton, in the middle of a campaign, hiring a foreign spy agency or a foreign spy —

CHUCK TODD:

Alright, you did it again to me. You did it again. You went back and said, "Okay, there's behavior that's bad over here. There's behavior that's bad over there." All that does is condition us for more bad behavior. When do we put a stop to this?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

No, but what it says is — no, what I'm asking for is that they be treated equally. And I think the American public's going to say, "If you didn't do anything to Hillary Clinton for hiring a foreign spy, why is it, all of a sudden, wrong for President Trump --

CHUCK TODD:

So two wrongs make a right?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

--to have a country investigate somebody-- well, what I would say is that people want them to be treated fairly. I'm not saying, two wrongs make a right. I'm not even saying I would've done it that way. All I'm saying is, is that you're going to impeach President Trump, and you're going to give Hillary Clinton, you know, let her skate? So then I think people see that as unfair. And so it becomes partisan. That's why no Republicans voted for impeachment.

Unbelievable.... No, wait. Totally believable. What a freaking quack.

[foreverlax]

Rand Paul made his case on Meet The Press

CHUCK TODD:

Let me ask the question this way, though. If you're the average American citizen watching this, should you be concerned that the president of the United States wanted a foreign government to help investigate a political rival? Do you understand why some people think that that’s an un — that that is , basically, abusing the office for political gain, to mess with the election?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

I think you're right, Chuck. But I think an equal number of people are upset that Hillary Clinton hired a British spy to hire Russians to get dirt called the Steele Dossier. So here's Hillary Clinton, in the middle of a campaign, hiring a foreign spy agency or a foreign spy —

CHUCK TODD:

Alright, you did it again to me. You did it again. You went back and said, "Okay, there's behavior that's bad over here. There's behavior that's bad over there." All that does is condition us for more bad behavior. When do we put a stop to this?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

No, but what it says is — no, what I'm asking for is that they be treated equally. And I think the American public's going to say, "If you didn't do anything to Hillary Clinton for hiring a foreign spy, why is it, all of a sudden, wrong for President Trump --

CHUCK TODD:

So two wrongs make a right?

SEN. RAND PAUL:

--to have a country investigate somebody-- well, what I would say is that people want them to be treated fairly. I'm not saying, two wrongs make a right. I'm not even saying I would've done it that way. All I'm saying is, is that you're going to impeach President Trump, and you're going to give Hillary Clinton, you know, let her skate? So then I think people see that as unfair. And so it becomes partisan. That's why no Republicans voted for impeachment.

Unbelievable.... No, wait. Totally believable. What a freaking quack.

Randy boy is not alone in his defense of the indefensible.