CNN Says 'White Men' are the Biggest Terror Threat in US

[holmes435]

I remember the first day after the Duke story broke, I was walking from my car to practice (was coaching a college women's team) and two girls were driving by, slowed down and yelled out: "Don't rape anyone!" and sped off.

Was quite an interesting time. PB, why not just say what you mean instead of beating around the bush and hopping from topic to topic and hoping we get something out of your ramblings. It's getting tiresome.

You say the Duke kids wouldn't stand a chance today. Maybe not, or maybe they could get elected President or get a seat on the Supreme Court since all those accusations are false in your opinion.

[Peter Brown]

I remember the first day after the Duke story broke, I was walking from my car to practice (was coaching a college women's team) and two girls were driving by, slowed down and yelled out: "Don't rape anyone!" and sped off.

Was quite an interesting time. PB, why not just say what you mean instead of beating around the bush and hopping from topic to topic and hoping we get something out of your ramblings. It's getting tiresome.

You say the Duke kids wouldn't stand a chance today. Maybe not, or maybe they could get elected President or get a seat on the Supreme Court since all those accusations are false in your opinion.

I thought I was clear; I certainly didn't beat around the bush. If I wasn't, let me try to be clearer: the Internet is an echo chamber of insult-driven insecure mobbish thought; this Board is no different. If the Duke case happened today, many of the same posters here who tend to rah-rah each other's personal insults rather than debate an idea, would no doubt throw the 3 Duke kids to the fire without batting an eyelash. Most of those posters, in fact all of them, are obviously of the Left tilt politically. Make of that what you will (I make of it that what they say they hate in Trump, they see in themselves; hence the insults rather than the debates).

The Internet is a written extension of a very deep, fundamental disregard of civil liberties; again, this Board is a great example of that (and the Duke case more so). So, it's sad to think that lacrosse fans, who should of all people know better, gleefully continue to trash by snark innuendo and occasionally-outright allegation the 3 kids whose lives were nearly destroyed by a prosecutor bent on higher office, using a woman who is practically insane. It's both amazing and disgusting. Meaning, I am continually shocked and disgusted by some lacrosse fans. Civil liberties, who cares, right!

Hope that's clear enough for you.

[foreverlax]

I remember the first day after the Duke story broke, I was walking from my car to practice (was coaching a college women's team) and two girls were driving by, slowed down and yelled out: "Don't rape anyone!" and sped off.

Was quite an interesting time. PB, why not just say what you mean instead of beating around the bush and hopping from topic to topic and hoping we get something out of your ramblings. It's getting tiresome.

You say the Duke kids wouldn't stand a chance today. Maybe not, or maybe they could get elected President or get a seat on the Supreme Court since all those accusations are false in your opinion.

I thought I was clear; I certainly didn't beat around the bush. If I wasn't, let me try to be clearer: the Internet is an echo chamber of insult-driven insecure mobbish thought; this Board is no different. If the Duke case happened today, many of the same posters here who tend to rah-rah each other's personal insults rather than debate an idea, would no doubt throw the 3 Duke kids to the fire without batting an eyelash. Most of those posters, in fact all of them, are obviously of the Left tilt politically. Make of that what you will (I make of it that what they say they hate in Trump, they see in themselves; hence the insults rather than the debates).

The Internet is a written extension of a very deep, fundamental disregard of civil liberties; again, this Board is a great example of that (and the Duke case more so). So, it's sad to think that lacrosse fans, who should of all people know better, gleefully continue to trash by snark innuendo and occasionally-outright allegation the 3 kids whose lives were nearly destroyed by a prosecutor bent on higher office, using a woman who is practically insane. It's both amazing and disgusting. Meaning, I am continually shocked and disgusted by some lacrosse fans. Civil liberties, who cares, right!

Hope that's clear enough for you.

Don't like the show, change the channel.

[Brooklyn]

Holmes providing (unwittingly) the money shot exclamation. Like I said, an echo chamber of deep insecurity. The Duke kids would have never stood a chance today.

Have fun.

If it's any consolation to you, the Duke kids got off a lot easier than did the Central Park Five.

Re the Duke incident, most libs I knew said let the facts be ascertained in court, then we will reach an informed judgment on the matter. By contrast, re the Central Park incident, a great many righties (including Rush Limbaugh and Trump) immediately jumped to conclusions with some even demanding the death penalty for five innocents. To this day I have yet to see these far right extremists take back all the hate filled garbage they spewed at that time.

[holmes435]

I remember the first day after the Duke story broke, I was walking from my car to practice (was coaching a college women's team) and two girls were driving by, slowed down and yelled out: "Don't rape anyone!" and sped off.

Was quite an interesting time. PB, why not just say what you mean instead of beating around the bush and hopping from topic to topic and hoping we get something out of your ramblings. It's getting tiresome.

You say the Duke kids wouldn't stand a chance today. Maybe not, or maybe they could get elected President or get a seat on the Supreme Court since all those accusations are false in your opinion.

I thought I was clear; I certainly didn't beat around the bush. If I wasn't, let me try to be clearer: the Internet is an echo chamber of insult-driven insecure mobbish thought; this Board is no different. If the Duke case happened today, many of the same posters here who tend to rah-rah each other's personal insults rather than debate an idea, would no doubt throw the 3 Duke kids to the fire without batting an eyelash. Most of those posters, in fact all of them, are obviously of the Left tilt politically. Make of that what you will (I make of it that what they say they hate in Trump, they see in themselves; hence the insults rather than the debates).

The Internet is a written extension of a very deep, fundamental disregard of civil liberties; again, this Board is a great example of that (and the Duke case more so). So, it's sad to think that lacrosse fans, who should of all people know better, gleefully continue to trash by snark innuendo and occasionally-outright allegation the 3 kids whose lives were nearly destroyed by a prosecutor bent on higher office, using a woman who is practically insane. It's both amazing and disgusting. Meaning, I am continually shocked and disgusted by some lacrosse fans. Civil liberties, who cares, right!

Hope that's clear enough for you.

I think you're 100% wrong in your assessment of the board and most of its posters. Especially it being tilted to the left or that posters would rather rah rah insults rather than debate an idea. It's not perfect, but it's certainly much better than most places around the internet today.

I imagine the Duke case would be argued very similarly to how we argued it more than a dozen years ago.

[MDlaxfan76]

I remember the first day after the Duke story broke, I was walking from my car to practice (was coaching a college women's team) and two girls were driving by, slowed down and yelled out: "Don't rape anyone!" and sped off.

Was quite an interesting time. PB, why not just say what you mean instead of beating around the bush and hopping from topic to topic and hoping we get something out of your ramblings. It's getting tiresome.

You say the Duke kids wouldn't stand a chance today. Maybe not, or maybe they could get elected President or get a seat on the Supreme Court since all those accusations are false in your opinion.

I thought I was clear; I certainly didn't beat around the bush. If I wasn't, let me try to be clearer: the Internet is an echo chamber of insult-driven insecure mobbish thought; this Board is no different. If the Duke case happened today, many of the same posters here who tend to rah-rah each other's personal insults rather than debate an idea, would no doubt throw the 3 Duke kids to the fire without batting an eyelash. Most of those posters, in fact all of them, are obviously of the Left tilt politically. Make of that what you will (I make of it that what they say they hate in Trump, they see in themselves; hence the insults rather than the debates).

The Internet is a written extension of a very deep, fundamental disregard of civil liberties; again, this Board is a great example of that (and the Duke case more so). So, it's sad to think that lacrosse fans, who should of all people know better, gleefully continue to trash by snark innuendo and occasionally-outright allegation the 3 kids whose lives were nearly destroyed by a prosecutor bent on higher office, using a woman who is practically insane. It's both amazing and disgusting. Meaning, I am continually shocked and disgusted by some lacrosse fans. Civil liberties, who cares, right!

Hope that's clear enough for you.

I think you're 100% wrong in your assessment of the board and most of its posters. Especially it being tilted to the left or that posters would rather rah rah insults rather than debate an idea. It's not perfect, but it's certainly much better than most places around the internet today.

I imagine the Duke case would be argued very similarly to how we argued it more than a dozen years ago.

Agreed.

I recall most folks saying at the time that the claims were, unfortunately, plausible, but not necessarily true...the latter was bolstered not because 'these are good kids' but rather that the boys were adamant from the outset that the worst allegations were not true and made themselves available, didn't try to obstruct the process of examination. They did not come across as hiding their actual mistakes. That helped folks, at least on LaPower, keep an open mind...but yes, there were many out there in the ether who rushed to judgment and expressed a ton of anger.

It was a heck of a 'story' and yes it got an awful lot of play. Thankfully, it also got a lot of play that the worst allegations were not true, the prosecutor was disbarred, etc. Ultimately, 'civil liberties' and justice were upheld.

That's not to say that on LP there wasn't lots of discussion about 'privilege' and race and alcohol and misogyny, but most of the discussion (at least on LaxPower) was generalized to the culture our lax playing kids are part of, what that all means, etc. It wasn't a rush to judgment on LP about these specific kids and the worst allegations...though certainly there certainly was condemnation of the decision to hire a stripper and the general party-boy atmosphere.

There were also quite a few posters who took the view that 'boys will be boys, everybody drinks heavily and underage, so what they hired a stripper, BFD", that PB is still taking.

That view did inflame those who disagree.
It was a worthwhile discussion, just as the Love murder and its backdrop was worthwhile to discuss.

[a fan]

I thought I was clear; I certainly didn't beat around the bush. If I wasn't, let me try to be clearer: the Internet is an echo chamber of insult-driven insecure mobbish thought; this Board is no different. If the Duke case happened today, many of the same posters here who tend to rah-rah each other's personal insults rather than debate an idea, would no doubt throw the 3 Duke kids to the fire without batting an eyelash. Most of those posters, in fact all of them, are obviously of the Left tilt politically. Make of that what you will (I make of it that what they say they hate in Trump, they see in themselves; hence the insults rather than the debates).

The Internet is a written extension of a very deep, fundamental disregard of civil liberties; again, this Board is a great example of that (and the Duke case more so). So, it's sad to think that lacrosse fans, who should of all people know better, gleefully continue to trash by snark innuendo and occasionally-outright allegation the 3 kids whose lives were nearly destroyed by a prosecutor bent on higher office, using a woman who is practically insane. It's both amazing and disgusting. Meaning, I am continually shocked and disgusted by some lacrosse fans. Civil liberties, who cares, right!

Hope that's clear enough for you.

Oh, it's clear alright.

First of all, at what point do you wake up and realize that posters are to the right of you on this issue, not to the left?

Geez, you can be obtuse with your silly "everyone is a lefty" nonsense. Absolving the players from any part of this is a huggy lefty "cool parent" viewpoint. They hired strippers. They had underage drinking. Shocker: these kids weren't perfect. And posters here think they are responsible for that part of the debacle.

And because you want to take projection to a new level, you take that to mean that anyone here thinks the kids "deserved" what happened to them. Dude. Look at the posters' actual words. NO ONE SAID THAT. So stop already.

Finally, if you were actually at Laxpower for the Duke debacle, you'd see that the opposite of what you were claiming "would happen" happened. Posters all supported the kids....and spent months flinging poo at Nifong. You're dead wrong, sorry.

That said, no one gave the players a pass for foolishly hiring a stripper for a team party. They own that choice. Ask any right wing parent, and they'll tell you the same. Be man, and own your choices, and take responsibility for them. Spare the rod, and all that....

Stop. Breath. Think. You are to the LEFT of posters here on many, many subjects.

[DMac]

Ultimately, PB, anyone who doesn't share your point of view is a lefty, or a Dem, or just an ignorant a*s*shole.
That's what it boils down to.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

on the topic of the posts that say you really shouldnt put yourself in a bad situation- how do you feel about the eric garner case? for discussion.

[Peter Brown]

They hired strippers. They had underage drinking. Shocker: these kids weren't perfect. And posters here think they are responsible for that part of the debacle.

Where you and I are on opposite sides of the universe regarding the 'Duke case' is, I'm not sure you grasp the severity of what these kids were facing had they been convicted. Your posts seem to suggest that 'the kids did some naughty things (drank, hired a stripper) and let's admonish them for that'. There but for the Grace of God goes everyone else here, am I correct? I did much worse in college than that, I assure you.

But their punishment would have been 20+ in a North Carolina max (rapists do hard time, not camps); I'm on safe ground speculating that NC max's are not exactly bedrocks of civil rights and internal security. With the Duke notoriety (had they been convicted), chances of death would not have been insignificant.

So when you and others here keep on with the 'but they drank and hired a stripper', maybe you and I think differently as to what the outcome would have been. You likely think that no one innocent goes to jail; as a civil liberties fanatic, I know the exact opposite is true (due to guys like Nifong). I look at these three kids (and facts on the table, I know one of the families) and I think how close they were to taking plea deals solely because of societal pressure, from the Gang of 88 and others (such as board posters here who clearly still have a titanium jones for these kids...for bs reasons imo of envy and class hatred).

And yes, Dmac, I'm being bluntly honest: it's mostly (if not all) just the Left who do this: name call via insults, blithely ignore civil liberties, continue to trash the Duke kids, continue to trash Kavanaugh, continue to believe something happened at UVA, repeat each other's lies, etc. An honest man speaks truth; don't expect him to speak sweet.

[Peter Brown]

on the topic of the posts that say you really shouldnt put yourself in a bad situation- how do you feel about the eric garner case? for discussion.

Personally, I feel (based on the video) that the cop should have been arrested for murder.

[Peter Brown]

Ultimately, 'civil liberties' and justice were upheld.

Gee, glad it worked out. It's not like they faced any massive punishment for the drinking, stripping, and raping thing.

Also, justice was upheld with absolutely no help by anyone here, people (lacrosse people! imagine the folks in non-lacrosse world who don't even know the story) who continue to drag these kids' reputations 15 years' post hence after knowing full well the facts of the matter...

I can only imagine what some of you said at the time Crystla and Mike made up their story (though it's not hard to truly imagine since many of you likely were on that other lacrosse website forum trashing the UVA fraternity kids too with the Rolling Stone story; it's a lock to bet on that).

Save the gracious welcomes...from what I can read, very few folks here deserve any praise for the Duke 3 being exonerated.

This topic has me so p.o.'ed. I really can't stand the it wasn't me vibe, when it was. If you weren't defending these kids, you were against them.

End of story.

[Typical Lax Dad]

They hired strippers. They had underage drinking. Shocker: these kids weren't perfect. And posters here think they are responsible for that part of the debacle.

Where you and I are on opposite sides of the universe regarding the 'Duke case' is, I'm not sure you grasp the severity of what these kids were facing had they been convicted. Your posts seem to suggest that 'the kids did some naughty things (drank, hired a stripper) and let's admonish them for that'. There but for the Grace of God goes everyone else here, am I correct? I did much worse in college than that, I assure you.

But their punishment would have been 20+ in a North Carolina max (rapists do hard time, not camps); I'm on safe ground speculating that NC max's are not exactly bedrocks of civil rights and internal security. With the Duke notoriety (had they been convicted), chances of death would not have been insignificant.

So when you and others here keep on with the 'but they drank and hired a stripper', maybe you and I think differently as to what the outcome would have been. You likely think that no one innocent goes to jail; as a civil liberties fanatic, I know the exact opposite is true (due to guys like Nifong). I look at these three kids (and facts on the table, I know one of the families) and I think how close they were to taking plea deals solely because of societal pressure, from the Gang of 88 and others (such as board posters here who clearly still have a titanium jones for these kids...for bs reasons imo of envy and class hatred).

And yes, Dmac, I'm being bluntly honest: it's mostly (if not all) just the Left who do this: name call via insults, blithely ignore civil liberties, continue to trash the Duke kids, continue to trash Kavanaugh, continue to believe something happened at UVA, repeat each other's lies, etc. An honest man speaks truth; don't expect him to speak sweet.

The vast majority of people in prison, never have a trial..... the vast majority.

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/31/nyre ... ndant.html

[a fan]

Where you and I are on opposite sides of the universe regarding the 'Duke case' is, I'm not sure you grasp the severity of what these kids were facing had they been convicted. Your posts seem to suggest that 'the kids did some naughty things (drank, hired a stripper) and let's admonish them for that'. There but for the Grace of God goes everyone else here, am I correct? I did much worse in college than that, I assure you.

You weren't a scholarship athlete at Duke.

If you actually paid attention to what everyone wrote, you'll notice that this part is treated separately from the Nifong nonsense. And many feel that the price they paid for hiring a stripper was just----Duke University took away their privilege of playing for a year. Not the NCAA. Not the Da. Duke.

This punishment is wholly and entirely separate from the abomination that was Mike Nifong.

So when you and others here keep on with the 'but they drank and hired a stripper', maybe you and I think differently as to what the outcome would have been. You likely think that no one innocent goes to jail....

And I "likely" believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny.

Wanna make any other stuff up about what it is I think? You're on a roll here. I've politely, and then not so politely told you that you're projecting what others think here. It's ok to be mistaken on what others think, we're typing here, and misunderstandings are bound to happen. But when we tell you that's not what we think......and you continue to insist otherwise?

I don't know what else to say than that you're wrong, and just stop it.

[Peter Brown]

If you actually paid attention to what everyone wrote, you'll notice that this part is treated separately from the Nifong nonsense. And many feel that the price they paid for hiring a stripper was just

AYFKM!

You think it was "just" to cancel an entire season because the team drank and hired a stripper one night?!

What's the punishment for jaywalking in your universe as town Sheriff, death?!?!

I swear this thread goes nuttier by the second. You're being serious though, right?

Jeebus on a triscuit...I'm out of words.

[DMac]

They hired strippers. They had underage drinking. Shocker: these kids weren't perfect. And posters here think they are responsible for that part of the debacle.

Where you and I are on opposite sides of the universe regarding the 'Duke case' is, I'm not sure you grasp the severity of what these kids were facing had they been convicted. I have no idea wt eff makes you think you're the only one here who grasps the severity of what these kids were facing had they been convicted. This is just another of example of your being the smartest guy in the room (between your ears anyway). I'd be willing to be that everyone here understands what these kids were facing had they been convicted. Your posts seem to suggest that 'the kids did some naughty things (drank, hired a stripper) and let's admonish them for that'. I think you're the only one who reads it that way. Most of the rest of us read it as these kids did some stupid things that a whole lot of other kids do but they got caught. That doesn't make the kids who didn't get caught any smarter, they were just a little luckier. Ultimately the Duke kids put themselves in a position to get in trouble and they did. There but for the Grace of God goes everyone else here, am I correct? I did much worse in college than that, I assure you. Oh indeed you are correct and jftr, I'd put my list of stupid things and hell raising up against anyone here.

But their punishment would have been 20+ in a North Carolina max (rapists do hard time, not camps); I'm on safe ground speculating that NC max's are not exactly bedrocks of civil rights and internal security. With the Duke notoriety (had they been convicted), chances of death would not have been insignificant.

So when you and others here keep on with the 'but they drank and hired a stripper', maybe you and I think differently as to what the outcome would have been. You likely think that no one innocent goes to jail;What, pray tell makes you think this? I promise you, I don't think that. Quite the opposite actually, I think there are boatloads of innocent people in jail as well as many "guilty (got caught with a bag of pot) who shouldn't be there. as a civil liberties fanatic, I know the exact opposite is true (due to guys like Nifong). I look at these three kids (and facts on the table, I know one of the families) and I think how close they were to taking plea deals solely because of societal pressure, from the Gang of 88 and others (such as board posters here who clearly still have a titanium jones for these kids...for bs reasons imo of envy and class hatred). Have no idea where you're getting this from but it's absolute BS.

And yes, Dmac, I'm being bluntly honest: it's mostly (if not all) just the Left who do this: name call via insults, blithely ignore civil liberties, continue to trash the Duke kids,Who is doing this. Names and examples please. continue to trash Kavanaugh, continue to believe something happened at UVA, repeat each other's lies,More names and examples please. etc. An honest man speaks truth; don't expect him to speak sweet. Wouldn't expect an honest man to speak sweet, but I can smell the stench of BS when that's what I'm getting from a man too. You're really something special, aren't you?

[a fan]

AYFKM!

You think it was "just" to cancel an entire season because the team drank and hired a stripper one night?!

JFC. At some point----at some point-----you're going to start paying attention to what people write around here, correct? Attention to detail is important given your vocation, no? How about exercising it, and start using your ability to read.

I didn't say anything about what I think. What I wrote was, and I quote "And many feel that the price they paid for hiring a stripper was just..."

And I'm not Duke University, the only opinion that mattered.

[MDlaxfan76]

Ultimately, 'civil liberties' and justice were upheld.

Gee, glad it worked out. It's not like they faced any massive punishment for the drinking, stripping, and raping thing.

Also, justice was upheld with absolutely no help by anyone here, people (lacrosse people! imagine the folks in non-lacrosse world who don't even know the story) who continue to drag these kids' reputations 15 years' post hence after knowing full well the facts of the matter...

I can only imagine what some of you said at the time Crystla and Mike made up their story (though it's not hard to truly imagine since many of you likely were on that other lacrosse website forum trashing the UVA fraternity kids too with the Rolling Stone story; it's a lock to bet on that).

Save the gracious welcomes...from what I can read, very few folks here deserve any praise for the Duke 3 being exonerated.

This topic has me so p.o.'ed. I really can't stand the it wasn't me vibe, when it was. If you weren't defending these kids, you were against them.

End of story.

Since you were responding to me (ignoring everything else I wrote, apparently), I'll just say that your vitriol at your fellow posters on here is misplaced.

Speaking solely for myself, I think these boys were very unfortunate to have had this thing blow up the way it did. Unlucky. But they were not innocent of stupidity and misogyny.

I don't know what the 'right punishment' should have been for their actual mistakes. Perhaps the loss of a season was appropriate; I supported the loss of the St. Paul's HS lax team's season when they filmed and then viewed as a team to much laughter a fellow player's sexual exploits with a HS girl. No one stood up and said stop. Made sense to me that they lost their season (though a whole lot of their parents disagreed, which I find somewhat disgusting). I also approved of the decision up at Harvard recently to rescind some recruits' admission when they came to campus in their senior HS year, got drunk, and harassed some young women (happened to be actual lax players at Harvard) in a pizza joint. Losing the opportunity to go to school there made sense to me.

These are tough calls to make, but I'm going to back the schools' decisions in those cases.

Now, what happened with the rape charges was outrageously bad. Horrifying charge, the credibility of which was only made possible by having hired a stripper in the first place. I blame the prosecutor, not the police, for what happened next. And, yup, he absolutely should have lost his job and license to practice. I haven't followed closely enough to whether he had further financial penalties, but I'd be cool if there were.

Ultimately the boys were vindicated on the rape allegation, I don't know any lacrosse people certainly who aren't aware of that outcome. And if I'm not mistaken a big cash amount was paid to them.

None of this fully compensates, much less excuses, what they went through.
On the other hand, a whole lot of folks don't have the resources to battle false allegations and end up doing serious time.
I'm more concerned for those folks.

But please stop with all the vitriol at your fellow posters.

[Matnum PI]

For what it's worth, at the time, the vast majority of post-ers stood by the Duke boys and the very few who did not, stood by "the process". i.e. They didn't think the boys were guilty. They just didn't know. In other words, I think the Duke Lacrosse case is a bad example. Unless you think the response would be very different today than yesterday and... I'm not sure that'd be true. The lacrosse world is a small world and we, in general, stand by our own.

[MDlaxfan76]

For what it's worth, at the time, the vast majority of post-ers stood by the Duke boys and the very few who did not, stood by "the process". i.e. They didn't think the boys were guilty. They just didn't know.

Even those of us (and I count myself among them/) who thought it was plausible, sure as heck hoped it wasn't true.

However, there are simply too many cases in which these sorts of horrifying events (eg the rape of drunk girl in a frat bedroom) actually happen to ignore the possibility. I recall as a freshman in college listening to a senior team mate tell of having 'pulled a train' on a girl some years before in HS...I had no idea what he was even talking about. Horrifying.