Again, please GMAB. One of these guys listened in on the call, made a contemporaneous complaint to his boss and counsel about it, and provided testimony pursuant to a Congressional inquiry and, I think, valid subpoena. The other guy tweeted stuff from years ago about his view, from a limited interaction, of the other guy's character and motivations, and got himself in the right of center news-spin. As I say, you are better and more discerning than this. Please.youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:37 pmWhy are yo picking sides if you know nothing about this guy?seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:48 amRead the article. It describes a guy joking around with other soldiers, and trying to find common ground with adversaries. LtC Hickman takes these conversations he appears to have overheard and transforms Vindman into a traitor. C'mon man, it's just gross and doesn't deserve your attention, You're better than this.youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:38 amThe article is capturing the character via another service member who was higher ranking at the time. And your reply is "Is there any bottom". Sheesh....you immediately discredited the higher ranking service member....outta partisanship or just hate of Trump?seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:30 amNice. Out the whistleblower, and assassinate the character and service of a witness. Is there any bottom to these folks? What. About. The. Facts?youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:23 am More on the story of Vindman from his superior: https://amgreatness.com/2019/11/04/reti ... d-america/
Or does membership in the Club require repetition that it was "a perfect call"? C'mon man.
"That which does not leave your lips, can not come back and bite you in the a$s."
Trump's Russian Collusion
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Yep...... Trying to show that they are not being corrupt by appointing a guy connected.... would love to see what that board looked like before they attempted to clean up their imageggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:06 pmOccams razor agrees with this. Burisma at the time was looking for outside international investors, so it would make sense that they would want to show a friendlier face to the western world. Just like how Energy Secy Rick Perry was trying to get Naftogaz (another Uke energy company) to clean up its image by appointing several Americans as directors.Volker said he suspected Burisma was concerned about its reputation for corruption and was looking to "spruce up its image" by having "prominent-named people on the board."
But Burisma biffed it. If you are trying to clean up your corrupt image, you should instead appoint some anonymous but well credentialed guy from the U.S. energy industry. Quite dumb to way overpay for an unqualified director who has a big conflict of interest.
More likely stupid than nefarious.
“I wish you would!”
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some qualified boring no-name industry guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt. Especially since the pay was way over the top.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper (regardless of the actual facts). Duh.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some qualified boring no-name industry guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt. Especially since the pay was way over the top.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper (regardless of the actual facts). Duh.
Last edited by ggait on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Yep.ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:31 pm Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some boring no-name guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper. Duh.
“I wish you would!”
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
The Lev totally knows The Donald and he’s looking to sing. Pressure on Rudy?
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
That’s why Joe needs to bury himself in the Rehoboth Beach sand like a cat log in life’s litter box.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pmYep.ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:31 pm Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some boring no-name guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper. Duh.
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
“I understood that satisfying Mr. Giuliani was a condition for scheduling the White House visit.”
"I also recall some question as to whether the public statement could come from the newly appointed Ukrainian Prosecutor General, rather than from President Zelensky directly.
Soon thereafter, I came to understand that, in fact, the public statement would need to come directly from President Zelensky himself. I do not specifically recall how I learned this, but I believe that the information may have come either from Mr. Giuliani or from Ambassador Volker, who may have discussed this with Mr. Giuliani."
Sondland
Sounds just like the days of Dean Acheson and George Catlett Marshall, right?
"I also recall some question as to whether the public statement could come from the newly appointed Ukrainian Prosecutor General, rather than from President Zelensky directly.
Soon thereafter, I came to understand that, in fact, the public statement would need to come directly from President Zelensky himself. I do not specifically recall how I learned this, but I believe that the information may have come either from Mr. Giuliani or from Ambassador Volker, who may have discussed this with Mr. Giuliani."
Sondland
Sounds just like the days of Dean Acheson and George Catlett Marshall, right?
Last edited by seacoaster on Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Lev is angling for a deal to sing to Congress. Unlikely he will get that. At least not in the short term.
For him to sing, he'd need some kind of immunity deal from BOTH Congress and DOJ. Those are hard to come by. As you may recall, Ollie North got a limited immunity deal from Congress to testify about Iran Contra. His criminal case was later thrown out due to that immunity grant. Even though his Congressional immunity deal was not supposed to apply to his criminal case.
Most likely, Lev will show up in Congress and just take the 5th in the near future. Then he'll do his real bargaining in secret with DOJ. He could fatally finger Rudy in the criminal cases, but we wouldn't hear about that for a long time.
For him to sing, he'd need some kind of immunity deal from BOTH Congress and DOJ. Those are hard to come by. As you may recall, Ollie North got a limited immunity deal from Congress to testify about Iran Contra. His criminal case was later thrown out due to that immunity grant. Even though his Congressional immunity deal was not supposed to apply to his criminal case.
Most likely, Lev will show up in Congress and just take the 5th in the near future. Then he'll do his real bargaining in secret with DOJ. He could fatally finger Rudy in the criminal cases, but we wouldn't hear about that for a long time.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released? Or maybe they had an idea what Sondland and Taylor were going to say ahead of time so they decided to call Sondland first. Regardless, it seems their approach worked in the case of Sondland.ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:23 pmNJ Bill -- Seems like in Sondland's case, the point was to snag the liars with subsequent truthful testimony (i.e. Taylor, Morrison).I actually think the Dems "attempt" to keep these depositions confidential is kinda silly. The stated reason is to prevent succeeding witnesses from knowing what prior witnesses said so they won't be able to line up their testimony.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
A singing Lev is Rudy’s worst nightmare. Well one of them. Rudy better have an undated complete pardon signed by Trump in his hip pocket to deploy (and backdate) in the event Trump chokes on a cheeseburger.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Although he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Sondland now recalls beaucoup quid pro quo. Lindsey won’t read the transcript. Whaaaa
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Agreed. Hopefully the Dems will use staff counsel to do the key questioning in the open hearings and limit the nonsensical and worthless five minute Member questioning as much as possible.ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 pmAlthough he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Agreed; the guy seems like a real pro. The GOP questioning is almost meaningless.ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 pmAlthough he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Hilarious!ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:09 pmThat’s why Joe needs to bury himself in the Rehoboth Beach sand like a cat log in life’s litter box.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pmYep.ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:31 pm Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some boring no-name guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper. Duh.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Sondland first try: "There was no quid pro quo."
Second try: "In order to avoid jail time, I'd like to provide you with my refreshed recollection. There was a quid pro quo. In addition, I was the individual who personally delivered the quid pro quo demand to the Ukrainians."
Second try: "In order to avoid jail time, I'd like to provide you with my refreshed recollection. There was a quid pro quo. In addition, I was the individual who personally delivered the quid pro quo demand to the Ukrainians."
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
You sweet talker you. Trump choking on a chesseburger is one of my fondest dreams.
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Apparently that's indeed what they passed, though both the Chairman and Ranking Member can go 45 minutes each if they want. But not a 5 minute rotation baloney.njbill wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:42 pmAgreed. Hopefully the Dems will use staff counsel to do the key questioning in the open hearings and limit the nonsensical and worthless five minute Member questioning as much as possible.ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 pmAlthough he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Yes, I can and do read...much of you say below is not substantiated.old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:59 pmCan't you read ? I posted NN's POLITICO article which laid it all out.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:50 pmSheesh, the moving into the server is what's unusual...again, can you not read?old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:12 pmThe individual calls do not need to be reviewed, other than to determine how high the classification level needs to be, since ALL summaries of Presidential ph cons with foreign leaders are classified. It's categorical. The NSC Director originated the document.a fan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:17 pmWe're talking past each other. I have no doubt that someone in authority classified the calls.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:50 pm
This might make you feel better :https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 438667001/
The NSC regional director, he said, was responsible for producing the call memo, which became a formal classified document.
That doesn't mean that those documents were classified according to the CFR's in question. For example, did the NSC regional director examine the document to ensure it followed the CFR's? Is the NSC regional director a lawyer? Did the NSC director even read the transcripts?
We're discussing the law here. I found it telling that the lawyers brought up that EO surrounding the limitations of of classification before questioning. Why would he do that?
You should be asking yourself these questions, imho.
We said that it may or not have had an upgrade in classification, but it was treated as if it had...we also said that could have been all innocent as driven snow, SOP for 100% of calls, but then again it might not..and if not, it could be criminal.
We don't have a conclusion as yet, just an open question.
It's not unusual -- it happened with several previous foreign leader calls. Possibly all since the leak.
Using the NICE server is just a way to more securely store, limit access, & track access.
It was a Executive decision to store & distribute foreign leader calls via the NICE server.
It was a rational decision, like hand carrying, sign for, eyes only, & using a safe to store paper documents which were being copied & leaked by criminal spies in your work force during inter-office routing.
Classifying these calls S/NF is not over classification (no matter how often afan quotes the motherhood CFR).
They were not even TS, let alone SCI. (recall that you asked about the classification level used)
Maybe every single call got the NICE server treatment. Maybe.
I sure as heck don't know, nor do you.
That's the whole point.